Mythic Jesus

[SW2SILVER]

Sky, I don't know if YOU exist, either , just a figment of my imagination. 2000 years from now, it might be hard to prove YOU ever existed at all. Jesus? Up there with Buddha or the Easter Bunny. The myth is more important than reality.

 

[hortysir]

Nothing about Jesus of Nazareth was committed to paper until at least 70 years after his death. There is also compelling evidence that he lived and died and was buried in Israel. http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/166938-if-a-tomb-was-found.html

The fact that a dude by the name of 'Jesus' lived a political life in Israel 2000 years ago I've never questioned - what you have to ask yourself is, "Did he walk out of his tomb?"

Knowing that the stories of his miracles were committed to paper some 70 years after his death and done so during unstable and revolutionary times makes me highly skeptical. A complete absence of the miraculous during modern times, and a world history that mocks the existence of righteousness makes me call 'bullshit!' on the whole thing.

Nothing that has been found, that is.

The message was passed along, somehow, in that time frame. Either written or orally. Or both.

Oral stories of a dude that pissed the local status quo off enough to get crucified by righteously bitching about current economic conditions of his day, committed to paper 70 years after the event by a guy named Paul who had a 'vision' and fell off his horse during another time of oppression.

Sorry, Bro'... I'm just not buying the version of events that survived. Especially after it's adoption and use in politics by the status quo starting in year 300.

And all the things you mention have been translated back and forth for centuries with as much proof as I have of the former.


I'll just choose to err on the side of Grace

 

[FactFinder]

Must have been one hell of a powerful influence to have endured all these centuries, heh?

Most of us come and go. A few get written about in some history book with a slew of others. One has a history book to Himself that has endured the test of time.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Not true.

30 years after his death Nero blamed Christians for the burning of Rome. 70 years after his death the Romans were trying to wipe out his followers.

Want to try again?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/185450-mythic-jesus-3.html#post4155884

Try this one.

Chronological Order

It is extremely biased, ignores modern textual criticism, and wants to make fools of anyone who thinks Jesus was a real person, but they at least they pay attention to reality.

As you will see when you read it, Mark is dated back to 61 CE, which was before the burning of Rome, and less than 70 years after Jesus died. You will also see that Revelation was written by 93 CE, which, again, is less than 70 years after he died.

That makes the entire basis of your argument wring. Thanks for trying again, and proving you are dishonest.

It's not a question of honesty or dishonesty, it's a matter of opinion.

Is there anything about religion that's NOT a matter of opinion?

I will always support your right to be, in my humble opinion, wrong..... I can't ask for more in return.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Sky, I don't know if YOU exist, either , just a figment of my imagination. 2000 years from now, it might be hard to prove YOU ever existed at all. Jesus? Up there with Buddha or the Easter Bunny. The myth is more important than reality.

Thank you for admitting that Jesus is mythic.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Must have been one hell of a powerful influence to have endured all these centuries, heh?

Most of us come and go. A few get written about in some history book with a slew of others. One has a history book to Himself that has endured the test of time.

For some of us it's luck and timing.

 

[Sky Dancer]

One of the problems faced by Christian scholars is that there is no record of Jesus's existence in any contemporary source. The earliest literature concerning him was written by Paul, who never knew him or anyone else who might have known him and who never heard anything about his life story. Paul mentioned none of these now-so-familiar details, which were added much later by unknown writers who pretended to bear the names of various disciples and who sprinkled their writings with mythic data gathered from sacred-king traditions of contemporary Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Persian and Levantine salvation cults.
The Jesus Myth | Is Christ a Historical Person?

Let's see..Peter wrote about Him. so did Matthew, Luke, John, James. How about Jude? They were by His side. Think you are twisting things a bit here?

Consider how long after the supposed life of Jesus these gospel texts were written, in the second century.

"Justin Martyr, the most eminent of the early Fathers, wrote around the middle of the second century and makes more than three hundred quotations from the books of the Old Testament, and nearly one hundred from the Apocryphal books; but none from the Four Gospels. -- In the latter half of the second century, between the time of Justin and Papias, and the time of Theophilus and Irenaeus, the Four Gospels were undoubtedly written or compiled."
http://www.thenazareneway.com/gospels_second_century_writings.htm

 

[hortysir]

Must have been one hell of a powerful influence to have endured all these centuries, heh?

Most of us come and go. A few get written about in some history book with a slew of others. One has a history book to Himself that has endured the test of time.

An analogy I heard once still makes me smile;

Imagine a doctor sculpting a toe. A hundred years later and a thousand miles away a lawyer sculpts a finger 70 years after that a tax collector seven hundred miles away sculpts a nose.............
And so on throughout the centuries

When it's all said and done you have a sculpture as magnificent as that of David.

Coincidence?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Myths can last a long time. It doesn't mean they're real.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The oldest myth ever discovered is the Enuma Elish, which is the Babylonian myth of Creation:
Enûma Eli

 

[Quantum Windbag]

One of the problems faced by Christian scholars is that there is no record of Jesus's existence in any contemporary source. The earliest literature concerning him was written by Paul, who never knew him or anyone else who might have known him and who never heard anything about his life story. Paul mentioned none of these now-so-familiar details, which were added much later by unknown writers who pretended to bear the names of various disciples and who sprinkled their writings with mythic data gathered from sacred-king traditions of contemporary Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Persian and Levantine salvation cults.
The Jesus Myth | Is Christ a Historical Person?

Let's see..Peter wrote about Him. so did Matthew, Luke, John, James. How about Jude? They were by His side. Think you are twisting things a bit here?

Consider how long after the supposed life of Jesus these gospel texts were written, in the second century.

"Justin Martyr, the most eminent of the early Fathers, wrote around the middle of the second century and makes more than three hundred quotations from the books of the Old Testament, and nearly one hundred from the Apocryphal books; but none from the Four Gospels. -- In the latter half of the second century, between the time of Justin and Papias, and the time of Theophilus and Irenaeus, the Four Gospels were undoubtedly written or compiled."
The Gospels: Second Century Writings

The oldest surviving copy of the Gospel of John dates back to the 2nd century, that does not mean that was when it was written.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Myths can last a long time. It doesn't mean they're real.

Popularity is no guarantee of truth either.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The oldest myth ever discovered is the Enuma Elish, which is the Babylonian myth of Creation:
Enûma Eli

One and only one thing is for certain.... From Enuma Elish to Zeus, Baal, Thor, The Volcano Gods and beyond - all had believers who were just as passionate about what they simply knew to be true as any Christian or Muslim alive today.

Major Gods and Goddesses of the World

 

[yidnar]

Jesus had things to teach other people about being good to others.

How I wish the words atributed to him mattered more than the silly crap the surrounds organized religion.

When you organize belief like man has you set up a system that people can use to lead each other arround by the nose and to get them to act in ways completely contrary to the words of the religion.


This is why so many horrible things have been done to people under the guise of religion.


Just heed the good words and forget the rest.

 

[yidnar]

One of the problems faced by Christian scholars is that there is no record of Jesus's existence in any contemporary source. The earliest literature concerning him was written by Paul, who never knew him or anyone else who might have known him and who never heard anything about his life story. Paul mentioned none of these now-so-familiar details, which were added much later by unknown writers who pretended to bear the names of various disciples and who sprinkled their writings with mythic data gathered from sacred-king traditions of contemporary Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Persian and Levantine salvation cults.
The Jesus Myth | Is Christ a Historical Person?

many Christians [Christ Like] do not practice what they preach ...but Jesus Christ practiced what he preached !! love,forgiveness,understanding,piece ,humility,charity ,and many more wonderful things !! Sky it is understandable to doubt Christianity when you see so many so called Christians and sinners ,but even if you doubt what is the harm in believing that once there was a man that did all these wonderful things !! And remember Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone !! I know you've seen my posts and some of them are over the top !! but I don't claim to be greater than thou !! i just like to have a little fun !! but on the serious side maybe you should seriously look into Jesus ....and even though you are not perfect and you are ridiculed by others Jesus doesn't teach that ...remember let he who is without sin cast the first stone !! I know I don't live by that creed, very few people do !! but what would life be like on earth if everybody did !!

talk about a dumping a steaming hot load.

once again a treasonous left wing muslim apologist attacks Christianity !!

 

[Marie888]

One of the problems faced by Christian scholars is that there is no record of Jesus's existence in any contemporary source. The earliest literature concerning him was written by Paul, who never knew him or anyone else who might have known him and who never heard anything about his life story. Paul mentioned none of these now-so-familiar details, which were added much later by unknown writers who pretended to bear the names of various disciples and who sprinkled their writings with mythic data gathered from sacred-king traditions of contemporary Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Persian and Levantine salvation cults.
The Jesus Myth | Is Christ a Historical Person?

*Sigh*


Was Jesus just a myth? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Was Jesus just a myth?

Was Jesus simply a mythical figure, a fabrication by religious zealots who wanted a symbol to rally behind for whatever reason they needed at the time? Or, was Jesus an actual person who lived in Israel 2000 years ago? Most often, those who deny Jesus as a historic figure denounce the New Testament writings, particularly the gospels, as fabrications or highly-embellished stories passed down through the years. They must do this otherwise they would have to acknowledge that Jesus lived.

In reality, a person must then ignore a great deal of evidence establishing the historic accuracy of the gospels. In other words, the Bible alone is sufficient evidence that Jesus lived, whether or not the critics want to admit it. But making this claim doesn't establish it as fact. So, let's look at reasons why Jesus is not a mythical creation, but an actual man who lived in Israel.

The Gospels as history - date of authorship

According to the Christian church, the four Gospels were written by the apostles and/or those under the direction of the apostles of Jesus. That means that they were written under direction of eyewitnesses of the actual events. Also, none of the gospels mention the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D. This is significant because Jesus had prophesied concerning the temple when He said "As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down," (Luke 21:6, see also Matt. 24:2; Mark 13:2). If the gospels had been written after that date and if they were fabrications, then surely they would have contained the account of the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple which are known historical facts. Yet, Matthew, Mark, and Luke contain no such information. Luke was written before Acts (Acts 1:1).

The book of Acts is a history of the Christian church, which doesn't mention the fall of Jerusalem either, nor does it record the deaths of Paul, James, and Peter which all happened in the early 60's. This means that Acts was written at least by A.D. 62 and Luke was written before that. Therefore, the time between the events and the writings is around 30 years. This further means that eyewitnesses were around who could have corrected any statements written in the gospels. Yet, we have absolutely no corrective or contradictory writings from that time, from anyone, denying the accounts of the gospels. For more information on this please see When were the gospels written and by whom?

... please see link for further reading

Is Jesus a myth? Is Jesus just a copy of the pagan gods of other ancient religions?

Question: "Is Jesus a myth? Is Jesus just a copy of the pagan gods of other ancient religions?"

Answer: There are a number of voices claiming that the accounts of Jesus as recorded in the New Testament are simply myths and were the result of the writers borrowing stories from pagan mythology, such as the stories of Osiris, Dionysus, Adonis, Attis, and Mithras. The claim is that these mythological figures are essentially the same story as what the New Testament ascribes to Jesus Christ of Nazareth. As Dan Brown claims in, The Da Vinci Code, “Nothing in Christianity is original.”

However, once the facts are examined, these claims are proven false. To discover the truth about these particular claims and others like them, it is important to: (1) unearth the history behind their assertions, (2) examine the actual historical portrayals of the false gods being compared to Christ, (3) expose the logical fallacies that the authors are making, and (4) look at why the New Testament Gospels can be trusted as accurately depicting the true and historical Jesus Christ.

First, the claims of Jesus as a myth or an exaggeration originated in the writings of 19th century liberal German theologians. Their claim was essentially that Jesus was nothing more than a copy of the widespread worship of dying and rising fertility gods in various places—Tammuz in Mesopotamia, Adonis in Syria, Attis in Asia Minor, and Osiris in Egypt. None of these works ever advanced in the realm of academia and religious thought because their assertions were investigated by theologians and scholars and determined to be completely false and baseless. It has only been in the late twentieth and early twenty-first century that these assertions have been resurrected, primarily due to the rise of the internet and mass distribution of information that has no historical foundation or accountability.

...please see link for further reading

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[Marie888]

On a personal note, you're saying that my actual relationship with the Lord is just a myth is absolutely ridiculous.

I can't see millions of people around the world, so I guess they are not there, and they are all myths. I can't see the wind, so I guess it's not there. I can't see the whole universe, so I guess it's not there.

Oh, and those who have gone before us and are now passed; we cannot see them anymore, so I guess they never here were either.

That's all I gotta say about that.

 

[Marie888]

Listen to this too, .59 second video:


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJgR1Di-Ra4]Modern Cosmology versus the Bible - YouTube[/ame]



.

 

[Truthmatters]

Jesus had things to teach other people about being good to others.

How I wish the words atributed to him mattered more than the silly crap the surrounds organized religion.

When you organize belief like man has you set up a system that people can use to lead each other arround by the nose and to get them to act in ways completely contrary to the words of the religion.


This is why so many horrible things have been done to people under the guise of religion.


Just heed the good words and forget the rest.

Exactly....we've gone to several different churches, some we really liked....but i have such a problem with someone telling me how i should act, what i can do and can't do because it's against their "rules". Jesus is the only one i need to listen to, and much of the rules that different denominations have are all Man Made, not God made! And then they can even change their rules...such as years ago Nazarene's were not allowed to go to movies or dances or play cards...now it's just fine! I'll stick with His word by reading my Bible, prayers and TRY to live my life like i believe He wants me to.

Good for you.

I respect the words artributed to him more than any myths about who he was.

I also respect the many other people in history who lived or may have lived but have great words of loving mankind and all working together to care for the earth we live on along with all its inhabitants.

 

[InDoctriNation]

On a personal note, you're saying that my actual relationship with the Lord is just a myth is absolutely ridiculous.

I can't see millions of people around the world, so I guess they are not there, and they are all myths. I can't see the wind, so I guess it's not there. I can't see the whole universe, so I guess it's not there.

Oh, and those who have gone before us and are now passed; we cannot see them anymore, so I guess they never here were either.

That's all I gotta say about that.

A schizophrenic might say the same thing about the hallucinations he or she experiences. Just because something appears a certain way, doesn't mean it actually is that way. Human intuition has proven to be much less than reliable.