Myth: 46 to 50 million uninsured

[JakeStarkey]

The common myth there are 46 to 50 million uninsured was ONE of the major reasons Obamacare was passed, i.e. uninformed voters thought they were helping 46 million uninsured!

The Census Bureau's own numbers show 15.5 million are uninsured.
198.4 million covered under private insurance
96.1 million covered by government, Medicare/Medicaid..
294.5 million people covered.

310.0 million Americans minus
294.5 million with insurance leaves
15.5 million uninsured.

And did you know that of those "uninsured" 5.4 million kids that ONLY need to register.

So that truly leaves only 10.1 million TRULY uninsured and NOT the myth of 50 million uninsured used to pass Obamacare!

Your figures are wrong, off by 400% at least; and, as well, you endorse the government insuring those who can't afford private insurance. You must be a lying liberal.

 

[Wry Catcher]

This is the United States of America and even if ONLY 10 Million American citizens are without health insurance that is unacceptable. Keep in mind, they will be treated, generally in county ER's. And, generally early detection will not be a factor. The later the treatment, generally, the greater the taxpayer cost.

Notice that health insurance costs continue to rise, and that many companies have dropped employee health care as a benefit.

Is the point of the OP to offer an opinion that the cost of insuring for health care in America did not need reform?

What is the solution to the high cost of health care in America?

What are the limits of constitutional authority of the Federal Government in terms of protecting its citizens? We are to be protected from armed conflict by foreign nations and terrorists, but the Federal Gov't has no role in protecting us from disease/plague?

Is it ethical for someone to profit from the illness of another?

 

[Bfgrn]

Idiotic is when there is a solution to cover less then 10 million at hand without destroying the health care for the other 95% and you make your comment?

The problem is NOT the "uninsured"!
YOu evidently have never worked in the health care finance segment have you!
Did you know that in 1986 all hospitals had to see patients regardless of ability to pay if they TOOK Medicare? Called EMTALA!
Since that "good intentions" Medicare's costs have exploded because hospitals with Medicare's blessing are charging Medicare sometimes 6,000% more then their costs!
And that's OK with medicare cause they know hospitals are seeing "uninsured"!
But it doesn't REQUIRE massive destruction of 1/6th the economy to solve the problem!
Health premiums are based on the FACT 80% of the premium goes out in claims!
Cut the $600 billion in "defensive medicine" claim costs by 20% and you cut premiums!
That Simple!

But ignorant supposedly "compassionate" idiots like your comment perpetuate the myth and has as all "good intentions" had "unintended consequences!!!

If you are truly interested in what is wrong with our healthcare system, invest a half hour of your time and listen to this interview with a man who spent 20 years as an insurance executive.

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients

 

[Wry Catcher]

Idiotic is when there is a solution to cover less then 10 million at hand without destroying the health care for the other 95% and you make your comment?

The problem is NOT the "uninsured"!
YOu evidently have never worked in the health care finance segment have you!
Did you know that in 1986 all hospitals had to see patients regardless of ability to pay if they TOOK Medicare? Called EMTALA!
Since that "good intentions" Medicare's costs have exploded because hospitals with Medicare's blessing are charging Medicare sometimes 6,000% more then their costs!
And that's OK with medicare cause they know hospitals are seeing "uninsured"!
But it doesn't REQUIRE massive destruction of 1/6th the economy to solve the problem!
Health premiums are based on the FACT 80% of the premium goes out in claims!
Cut the $600 billion in "defensive medicine" claim costs by 20% and you cut premiums!
That Simple!

But ignorant supposedly "compassionate" idiots like your comment perpetuate the myth and has as all "good intentions" had "unintended consequences!!!

If you are truly interested in what is wrong with our healthcare system, invest a half hour of your time and listen to this interview with a man who spent 20 years as an insurance executive.

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients

Apparently the 'conservatives' are not interested in other POV; willful ignorance is so blissful.

 

[healthmyths]

"Is it ethical for someone to profit from the illness of another?"
Is it ethical for someone to profit from teaching?
Is it ethical for someone to profit from pumping gas?
Is it ethical for a farmer to "sell" food?

Geez.. why don't we live in a society like say Cuba ...with this new legal reform, however, the great majority of citizens are only allowed to buy a used car, which in Cuba means vehicles more than 15 years old, and in particular Russian Ladas or Moskvitches, or Polish Fiats, which were previously marketed through a meritocracy.
Yoani Sanchez: Cuba Allows Car Sales: Cars Over 15 Years Old for Us, Newer Cars Only for the Party Faithful

 

[rdean]

Because 15 million Americans without health care is a "good" thing. Let 'em die.

What is that? Like the entire populations of New York, Chicago and Los Angeles put together?

And Republicans are "proud"? I see a disaster, they see something to be "proud" of. What can you expect from people who applaud executions? I guess they were hoping for more. Well, if one of those nutjobs becomes president, rest assured, they will pick up right where Bush left off.

 

[sparky]

Imho the have/have not Insurance meter is a poor way of HC assessment

If the HC insurance people are empowered by legislation

and i'm talking legislation that can legally be bought

then we're all basically prey to jackbooted thugs

~S~

 

[JakeStarkey]

One, the fallacy of false analogy does not support your position, healthmyths, because no one said insurance should not profit. I hate it when you folks like through your teeth. The point is that insurance should not profit because insurance will not cover the ill.

Two, the fallacy of Cuban used auto laws does not support your position, healthmyths.

American health comes before insurance profit, period. However, insurance companies can profit from doing their job well and American health can improve if insurance companies are held to a standard that allows them to profit but not to aid and abet the illness, sickness, daily unwellness, and eventually death because insurance has failed to live up to its obligation: a public interest in pursuit of private profit has a public duty that must first be met. Period.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"Is it ethical for someone to profit from the illness of another?"
Is it ethical for someone to profit from teaching?
Is it ethical for someone to profit from pumping gas?
Is it ethical for a farmer to "sell" food?

Geez.. why don't we live in a society like say Cuba ...with this new legal reform, however, the great majority of citizens are only allowed to buy a used car, which in Cuba means vehicles more than 15 years old, and in particular Russian Ladas or Moskvitches, or Polish Fiats, which were previously marketed through a meritocracy.
Yoani Sanchez: Cuba Allows Car Sales: Cars Over 15 Years Old for Us, Newer Cars Only for the Party Faithful

Do you always default to emotion?

Use of hyperbole and sarcasm are childish tools; a serous matter deserves more than a list of numbers and emotion based rhetoric. As Mark Twain famously noted, 'their are liars, damn liars and statistics". He didn't mentioned callous conservatives, but I suspect he would if he could read their comments and ideological beliefs today.

I suggest you put your anger away and open up your mind. Read the following link and tell me profit in this case is ethical:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/opinion/sunday/ezekiel-emanuel-cancer-patients.html

 

[Wry Catcher]

From the link above:

RIGHT now cancer care is being rationed in the United States.

Probably to their great disappointment, President Obama’s critics cannot blame this rationing on death panels or health care reform. Rather, it is caused by a severe shortage of important cancer drugs.

Of the 34 generic cancer drugs on the market, as of this month, 14 were in short supply. They include drugs that are the mainstay of treatment regimens used to cure leukemia, lymphoma and testicular cancer. As Dr. Michael Link, the president of the American Society of Clinical Oncology, recently told me, “If you are a pediatric oncologist, you know how to cure 70 to 80 percent of patients. But without these drugs you are out of business.”

The sad fact is, there are plenty of newer brand-name cancer drugs that do not cure anyone, but just extend life for a few months, at costs of up to $90,000 per patient. Only the older but curative cancer drugs — drugs that can cost as little as $3 per dose — have become unavailable. Most of these drugs have no substitutes, but, crazy as it seems, in some cases these shortages are forcing doctors to use brand-name drugs at more than 100 times the cost.

Only about 10 percent of the shortages can be attributed to a lack of raw materials and essential ingredients to manufacture the drugs. Most shortages appear instead to be the consequence of corporate decisions to cease production, or interruptions in production caused by money or quality problems, which manufacturers do not appear to be in a rush to fix.

Yes. It can be and is unethical to make a profit from health care!

 

[Douger]

The common myth there are 46 to 50 million uninsured was ONE of the major reasons Obamacare was passed, i.e. uninformed voters thought they were helping 46 million uninsured!

The Census Bureau's own numbers show 15.5 million are uninsured.
198.4 million covered under private insurance
96.1 million covered by government, Medicare/Medicaid..
294.5 million people covered.

310.0 million Americans minus
294.5 million with insurance leaves
15.5 million uninsured.

And did you know that of those "uninsured" 5.4 million kids that ONLY need to register.

So that truly leaves only 10.1 million TRULY uninsured and NOT the myth of 50 million uninsured used to pass Obamacare!

So. how many of YOUR insured are on food stamps ?

 

[kiwiman127]

Fact Sheet: America's Uninsured

From the link:

Myth: There are between 40 million and 50 million uninsured Americans. President Obama referred to “46 million uninsured Americans” in May 2009.



Fact: Anyone who reports that there are more than 46 million uninsured is exaggerating since the Census Bureau puts the number of uninsured at 45,657,000 people.

 

[healthmyths]

you wrote" So. how many of YOUR insured are on food stamps ?"

Why are you jabbing me? I'm simply pointing out that there is a gigantic myth of 50 million uninsured! And because of that "myth" millions more are going to not be able to afford DUE to Obamacare!
You have NO idea of how health insurance works do you?
Obamacare eliminated "pre-existing conditions".
That means Anyone applying for insurance is accepted!
That means all non-smokers for example now under Obamacare passed because idiots thought there were 50 million uninsured and they were helping are NOW again for an example non-smokers will pay a higher premium and WHY???
Because there is no way now with NO pre-existing conditions for insurance companies to determine how much they will have to pay in claims!
And since smokers get cancer more often claim expenses go up!
So now do you understand why it is important to know that the myth of 50 million uninsured helped pass the ban on "pre-existing" and therefore ALL insurance premiums are going UP!
And if you stupidly blame the insurance companies you are even dumber then I thought!
The insurance companies are ranked 22 out of 50 top profit industries at 4% net profit average BEFORE paying income taxes!
NOT that you know what that means!

 

[kiwiman127]

As usual health care costs go up multiple times the rate of inflation as insurance increased by 113% in the last ten years, where as the ten year inflation rate was 25.3%! Obamacare did up the increase of health care, there's no question with that (1.8%), but outrageous health care costs are seriously killing the US economy. It hurts business and the consumer. It takes chips away at the US's consumer driven economy. It takes away expendable income from business and the consumer.
People like to say let's lower the costs by using tort reform, yet that would only lower costs by a mere 2%**.
One of the steps that must be taken to ensure a long-term sound economy is reigning in the outrageous and runaway costs of health care in the US.
**Limiting Tort Liability for Medical Malpractice

 

[Wry Catcher]

you wrote" So. how many of YOUR insured are on food stamps ?"

Why are you jabbing me? I'm simply pointing out that there is a gigantic myth of 50 million uninsured! And because of that "myth" millions more are going to not be able to afford DUE to Obamacare!
You have NO idea of how health insurance works do you?
Obamacare eliminated "pre-existing conditions".
That means Anyone applying for insurance is accepted!
That means all non-smokers for example now under Obamacare passed because idiots thought there were 50 million uninsured and they were helping are NOW again for an example non-smokers will pay a higher premium and WHY???
Because there is no way now with NO pre-existing conditions for insurance companies to determine how much they will have to pay in claims!
And since smokers get cancer more often claim expenses go up!
So now do you understand why it is important to know that the myth of 50 million uninsured helped pass the ban on "pre-existing" and therefore ALL insurance premiums are going UP!
And if you stupidly blame the insurance companies you are even dumber then I thought!
The insurance companies are ranked 22 out of 50 top profit industries at 4% net profit average BEFORE paying income taxes!
NOT that you know what that means!

Gee, I thought you had cut and run. Please respond to my response to your challenge on the previous page. Further hyperbole and sarcasm on your part will convince me you are nothing more than a troll for the insurance industry.

For those who just tuned in, please see page 2 for a review.

Also, see this link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/opinion/sunday/ezekiel-emanuel-cancer-patients.html?_r=1

 

[healthmyths]

you wrote:"Fact: Anyone who reports that there are more than 46 million uninsured is exaggerating since the Census Bureau puts the number of uninsured at 45,657,000 people."
Where did you get that number?
Per the U.S. Census Bureau and please I ask all of you go to this site and VERIFY!!!
Newsroom: Income & Wealth: Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2010

The Census Bureau's own numbers show 15.5 million are uninsured.
The Census there are 198.4 million covered under private insurance
The Census says 96.1 million covered by government, Medicare/Medicaid..
Added together equals =294.5 million people covered.

How many American citizens counted recently?310.0 million Americans
Subtracting Americans that are insured -294.5 million with insurance
Leaves a total of 15.5 million uninsured.
Not 46 million! Not 50 million!
Then again why are we counting 5.4 million kids that for ALL they have to do is have their parents register.. no money. NO costs.. REGISTER they are covered!
That leaves 10 million "uninsured".. BUT WAIT...
The same Census says 9.9 million people who said they "weren't insured" ARE NOT AMERICANS!!!

How complicated is that simple arithmetic..

 

[Trajan]

Fact Sheet: America's Uninsured

theres the 'smoking gun' right here.

Fact: More than 17 million of the uninsured make at least $50,000 per year (the median household income of $50,233) – 8.4 million make $50,000 to $74,999 per year and 9.1 million make $75,000 or higher. Two economists working at the National Bureau of Economic Research concluded that 25 to 75 percent of those who do not purchase health insurance coverage “could afford to do so.”

let us suppose for a minute that the figure is 30 million, taking the mid way between the 2 estimates.

we will now turn 20% of the economy over to central planning federal style for the sake of less than 10% of the population?


oh and-

CBO analysis found that 36 million people would remain uninsured even if the Senate’s $1.6 trillion health care plan is passed.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As usual health care costs go up multiple times the rate of inflation as insurance increased by 113% in the last ten years, where as the ten year inflation rate was 25.3%! Obamacare did up the increase of health care, there's no question with that (1.8%), but outrageous health care costs are seriously killing the US economy. It hurts business and the consumer. It takes chips away at the US's consumer driven economy. It takes away expendable income from business and the consumer.
People like to say let's lower the costs by using tort reform, yet that would only lower costs by a mere 2%**.
One of the steps that must be taken to ensure a long-term sound economy is reigning in the outrageous and runaway costs of health care in the US.
**Limiting Tort Liability for Medical Malpractice

When will folks like you catch on?
Never?

Did you notice that when you buy auto or homeowners insurance, you can tell
the company what coverage you wish...and that determines your costs?

Do you know that doing same with health insurance would lower an individual's
costs 30 to 50 percent???

COVERAGE MANDATES: "WE'LL TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED"
Insurance coverage mandates refer to the restrictions each state sets on which type of policy can be sold legally within that market. For example, fourteen states now require all insurance plans sold to cover infertility treatments, regardless of the patient's need or desire for these services. Other states ban the sale of insurance plans unless they include coverage for massage therapy, obesity surgery, pastoral care, and wigs.
Needle-phobic consumers cannot buy plans without acupuncture coverage, and teetotalers must pay for plans that include inpatient drug rehabilitation, says Dr. Linda Halderman, a General Surgeon and policy adviser in the California State Senate.
What effect do mandates have on the cost of health insurance?
According to the National Center for Policy Analysis, just 12 of the most common insurance mandates currently in place raise premium rates by as much as 30 percent.

The State of California forces over 50 such mandates on the employer-provided (group) insurance market, but not on individual plans; consequently, it costs three times more for California employers to offer insurance than if a plan is privately purchased.
In mandate-heavy states, consumers are denied the option of buying low-cost, basic health insurance plans to cover major illness or injury. They cannot choose to save money by paying out of pocket for ten-dollar pneumococcus pneumonia vaccines and ninety-dollar mammograms, thereby reserving health insurance for significant expenses, explains Halderman.

In those states, insurance is not insurance at all -- it is expensive, prepaid health care. In other words, when Hummers and Ferraris are the only vehicles sold, people on Toyota budgets can't afford transportation, says Halderman.
Source: Linda Halderman, "Senate's Solution: Consumer Choice Is Dead on Arrival," American Thinkers, December 16, 2009.
Archived-Articles: Senate's Solution: Consumer Choice Is Dead on Arrival


And...did you know that the increase in college costs outstrips healthcare increases???
Didn't know???
Could it be because the Left has their interests tied to the indocrination in colleges?

Wise up...you're being played.

 

[healthmyths]

you wrote": a public interest in pursuit of private profit has a public duty that must first be met. Period"
Then why are YOU NOT pissed at the lawyers that have caused the $600 billion a year in defensive medicine?
They've made $100 billion a year in fees and in doing so put the fear of lawsuits into providers so providers do over $600 billion in duplicate tests, specialist opinions,etc.

You have bought into the myth of the INSURANCE companies because you evidently don't know the basic fact which is Insurance companies simply pay the claims!
80% of their premiums go to pay the claims!
So if providers order duplicate tests.. Medicare/insurance companies pay!

Why don't you address that?

 

[healthmyths]

IDIOT! , yet that would only lower costs by a mere 2%**.
Malpractice insurance isn't the issue!
Do you comprehend the FACTS that 90% of doctors agree that over $600 billion a year is spent on defensive medicine out of fear of lawsuits!
$600 billion is 25% of all health care expenditures -- done unnecessarily!
Done out of FEAR of lawsuits!
Cut $200 billion and you are reducing insurance costs is a total well know fact!