My white privilege

boedicca

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Yes it can both. White offenders, committing the same crime are less likely to receive jail time.
Agree 100%. I have studied the topic.

Being African American adds on average 20% to prison term for the same crime.

Link to verified sources?

Did you bother to read it? Direct quotes:

"A key empirical challenge in answering this question is the lack of data on true criminal conduct."

"We find that the majority of the disparity between black and white sentences can be explained by differences in legally permitted characteristics, in particular, the arrest offense and the defendant’s criminal history. Black arrestees are also disproportionately concentrated in federal districts that have higher sentences in general. Yet even after we control for these and other prior characteristics, an unexplained black-white sentence disparity of approximately 9 percent remains in our main sample."

First they admit that they lack data. Then they do some statistical analysis that resolves 91% of the difference. Hardly compelling bub, and only one academic paper.
 

366h34d

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So if there's white privilege out there, I have no idea what it is.
A few years back I went to lunch with a coworker. He drove. We were pulled over, supposedly because he failed to signal before a lane change. He also happened to be a large brown male. The cop was totally running him on everything he could think of. Even claimed there had been as series of thefts in the area and ask if my friend "knew anything about it"?? It was obvious harassment, and I was furious. My friend pleaded with me not to say anything. "If you get mad, they win," was what he said. So I sat there and waited. For thirty minutes, while my co-worker (a brilliant and successful software developer) was treated like a common criminal.

So, if you don't think white privilege is real - you're either very, very sheltered and living in a bubble, a complete fucking idiot, or a liar. Which is it?
So, you think a white male will not have the same problem if he is in the same troubling area and breaks traffic law. I tell you; unless the cops know you, it will the same. They are just doing their jobs. Did you watch the movie "Dope"?

P.S. I am a code monkey too, and I do not think that the job is that high privilege and it is worth mentioning :rolleyes:
 

Ray From Cleveland

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One of my link links to a good many different sources, but right in this, what I bolded, tells me you missed the point. One of my links stated sentencing for the same type of crimes. Of course the example you provided would be handled differently since it involved assault as opposed to shoplifting. But let's say both were shoplifting only?
They indeed might be treated differently.

Years ago I was somewhat of a witness to a traffic accident. Basically I heard it but didn't actually see it. In any case, the guy who hit the car was black, and apparently he was tailgating the guy in front of him who gave him a break check. When I heard the crash, I was on my back porch and went out front to see what happened.

I was subpoenaed to court by the driver who got hit. He was an old classmate of mine and I told him I would do anything I could to help. In any case when I got to court, the judge called the officer and myself into his chambers to discuss what happened. I told the judge that the black driver was erratic. I thought the officer on the scene would have to call for backup he became so verbally violent. He was waiving his arms, screaming I was a racist, called the officer a racist for citing him for the accident, and went into a pizza shop that was here, and called them racist because they actually didn't see anything.

The judge was not very favorable to him. It had nothing to do with his skin color, it had to do with his conduct, especially towards the police officer.

My point in all this is that a judge doesn't simply look at a crime and spit out a standard penalty; we could get a computer program to do that. It's based on so many things. How the suspect interacted with the police officers. Did he lie or give them a hard time? Did he run from them or obey all commands? Did he fight with the officers? How did he interact with the jailer? Did he disrespect the judge and court by rolling his eyes, making noises, dressed inappropriately. What was his past criminal record.

A judge takes all these things into account as per my story of the accident. He or she then decides on the severity of penalty based on all those things. So yes, you may get different outcomes.
 

Concerned American

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One of the factors that has made black poverty so entrenched is through a systemic system of laws and of violence (white race riots) towards black property owners and businesses and homes and communities that destroyed wealth and the ability to pass it to their children and so on. So as a community - whites (in general) have not had to endure that. Poverty has a lot of causes of course, some in our control, some not. But I think that is one example how race was a factor.
Interesting.

But I feel as if black people already have all the tools they need to prosper. But instead of breaking free from victimhood they seem to embrace it.

"White people did X to my ancestors, therefore as a descendant I deserve Y!"

So, where does the privilege supposedly exist?
Do they? Prosperity, more often then is not created in a rags to riches story, though that does happen, it really isn’t that common. A lot of wealth is created and passed down, and grown through generations, and that includes not just dollars but property. What happens when that is routinely destroyed and every generation has to start all over again?

Two examples: race riots, that targeted thriving black communities and destroyed them. In an era of segregation, they would have little recourse to justice.

The other example is that black property was much more likely to be targeted for public projects and infrastructure, often without compensation or inadequate compensation. Again, destroying accumutated value that might have been passed on.

And when poor or middle class black communities are more likely to be targeted then poor white communities, isn’t that an example of white priveledge?
You are right about property. But here is the thing, Blacks owned far more property a hundred years ago than they do today, especially land. Everything, and I mean everything, east of I-95, from South Carolina to well past the Georgia line, was owned by blacks prior to the turn of the 20th century. We are talking Hilton Head Island and the South Georgia island. Myrtle Beach. What happened is simple. Tenancy in common. When a black person died they left their property to all their descendants. Smooth talking white lawyers only had to talk one of them into selling, and they forced a sale and white people bought up the land. The truth of the matter is those blacks have just as much responsibility for losing all that land as those smooth talking white lawyers.
Systemic system--a bit redundant don't you think?
 

Ray From Cleveland

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A few years back I went to lunch with a coworker. He drove. We were pulled over, supposedly because he failed to signal before a lane change. He also happened to be a large brown male. The cop was totally running him on everything he could think of. Even claimed there had been as series of thefts in the area and ask if my friend "knew anything about it"?? It was obvious harassment, and I was furious. My friend pleaded with me not to say anything. "If you get mad, they win," was what he said. So I sat there and waited. For thirty minutes, while my co-worker (a brilliant and successful software developer) was treated like a common criminal.

So, if you don't think white privilege is real - you're either very, very sheltered and living in a bubble, a complete fucking idiot, or a liar. Which is it?
I had to drop off my truck one day to the garage. My employer had another driver pick me up; another professional driver. We got to BS'n and he too switched lanes with no signal probably not paying attention. A trooper stopped us, and I thought it was just to do a safety check that truck drivers often get pulled over for. Instead, he pulled him over because of the turn signal. Now, they usually try to cut us CDL drivers some slack knowing that our drivers license is our bread and butter. But not this guy. He wrote him a ticket, and he was as white as I am.

It sounds to me like your brown friend is smarter than you are. He complied with the officer, his questioning, his orders, and he went on his way after the stop was complete. Your friend or his vehicle he was driving may have fit the description of a person of question involved in criminal activity.

I've been profiled myself by the police. I had the cops follow me all the way home one night. When I pulled into my driveway, they parked across the street. They seen me get out of my car with my bowling shirt on carrying my bowling ball. When I got into the house, I immediately ran to my scanner. Apparently they were looking for a white male in a car very similar to mine. If I hadn't turned into my driveway, it's likely they would have pulled me over just to see if I was who they were looking for.

When I used to deliver medical equipment, we often found ourselves in very dangerous areas of Cleveland. I was approached by police on two occasions simply for being being white and doing my job. Why? Because a white guy in the projects fits the profile of a person buying or selling drugs. I was not offended. I understood their position. I gave them my drivers license, answered all their questions, and assured them I was in the projects for legitimate reasons. I even showed them my delivery ticket even though they never asked.
 

Snouter

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Jewish privilage. Being connected with thousands of international organizations funded by White people that gladly send money as reparations for things that never happened to finance their domination and control of the media, academia and shit such as Western society. And then to project their privilege on Whitey. Black power!
 

JoeB131

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Averages? I don't care about averages. Averages shouldn't grant some special status to those with the greatest impact on the statistics. Life shouldn't work that way, more like it doesn't.
But government has to make policy based on averages, because they are dealing with everyone, not just you.

I can't feel guilty of something I don't employ or take advantage of. Where is my white privilege? Tell me, the one living a lower middle class life taking care of an elderly family member, WHERE IS MY WHITE PRIVILEGE?
But that's the point, you don't take advantage. The fact that you have no job, are unable to work, but still consider yourself "Lower middle class" is evidence enough of white privilege.

And I'll tell you something else: the structure is being re-tooled to be racist against white people. You can laugh and scoff at that assertion all you want, but you know it to be truth. White people are being villainized for the deeds of their ancestors while blacks are being propped up for the suffering of theirs.
Yes, we have the weight of history. You can't pretend that the current state of economics and race relations is decoupled from history. The point was, when my Grandfather got off the boat from Germany 95 years ago, he automatically had more rights and privileges than black people who had been here for centuries. My dad got to enjoy veterans benefits and joined a union after WWII, while black people were sent back to the segregated cities and towns of the South. You simply can't pretend history doesn't matter.

Let's say I shoot a black guy in self-defense. Who gets villainized? Me? Or the black guy for endangering my safety and my family?

Odds are in today's society, I will be called out for being racist because I shot the black man and asked questions later. The black man will be propped up on a pedestal for the supposed bad hand his life dealt him before he met the muzzle of my weapon. Odds are, I will be seen as heartless and deserving of punishment.

The court system will more than likely be more lenient on him than on me. Especially if he dies in the commission of his crime. I stand more of a chance of being charged with murder than being exonerated for defending myself.
Okay, can you name a case where this happened, where someone shot a person who was a danger to his family and was vilified for it? We'll wait, Twinkie.
 

JoeB131

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Well of course the leftists on the site agree with you. I never said otherwise. I just laughed that you believe they don't see that you have a shitty attitude
Not sure who they are. I wasn't talking about leftists on this board. I was talking about my coworkers throughout my history.

I've had no less than four co-workers approach me about jobs at their new places of employment. one of them was a former supervisor. I've also had two past employers approach me about new opportunities. (Although one of them was a large corporation at another location and didn't read far enough down on my resume to realize I worked for them before. I love telling that story to my resume customers.) I get the job done.
 

Meathead

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Averages? I don't care about averages. Averages shouldn't grant some special status to those with the greatest impact on the statistics. Life shouldn't work that way, more like it doesn't.
But government has to make policy based on averages, because they are dealing with everyone, not just you.

I can't feel guilty of something I don't employ or take advantage of. Where is my white privilege? Tell me, the one living a lower middle class life taking care of an elderly family member, WHERE IS MY WHITE PRIVILEGE?
But that's the point, you don't take advantage. The fact that you have no job, are unable to work, but still consider yourself "Lower middle class" is evidence enough of white privilege.

And I'll tell you something else: the structure is being re-tooled to be racist against white people. You can laugh and scoff at that assertion all you want, but you know it to be truth. White people are being villainized for the deeds of their ancestors while blacks are being propped up for the suffering of theirs.
Yes, we have the weight of history. You can't pretend that the current state of economics and race relations is decoupled from history. The point was, when my Grandfather got off the boat from Germany 95 years ago, he automatically had more rights and privileges than black people who had been here for centuries. My dad got to enjoy veterans benefits and joined a union after WWII, while black people were sent back to the segregated cities and towns of the South. You simply can't pretend history doesn't matter.

Let's say I shoot a black guy in self-defense. Who gets villainized? Me? Or the black guy for endangering my safety and my family?

Odds are in today's society, I will be called out for being racist because I shot the black man and asked questions later. The black man will be propped up on a pedestal for the supposed bad hand his life dealt him before he met the muzzle of my weapon. Odds are, I will be seen as heartless and deserving of punishment.

The court system will more than likely be more lenient on him than on me. Especially if he dies in the commission of his crime. I stand more of a chance of being charged with murder than being exonerated for defending myself.
Okay, can you name a case where this happened, where someone shot a person who was a danger to his family and was vilified for it? We'll wait, Twinkie.
Bullshit. Your grandfather was not an American citizen when he got off the boat 95 years ago, unless he already was.
 

dblack

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So if there's white privilege out there, I have no idea what it is.
A few years back I went to lunch with a coworker. He drove. We were pulled over, supposedly because he failed to signal before a lane change. He also happened to be a large brown male. The cop was totally running him on everything he could think of. Even claimed there had been as series of thefts in the area and ask if my friend "knew anything about it"?? It was obvious harassment, and I was furious. My friend pleaded with me not to say anything. "If you get mad, they win," was what he said. So I sat there and waited. For thirty minutes, while my co-worker (a brilliant and successful software developer) was treated like a common criminal.

So, if you don't think white privilege is real - you're either very, very sheltered and living in a bubble, a complete fucking idiot, or a liar. Which is it?
So, you think a white male will not have the same problem if he is in the same troubling area and breaks traffic law.
Yes. I know so. We weren't in a "troubling area". We were in an affluent white suburb. And didn't look affluent or white. That's why he gets harrassed and I never do.
 

DBA

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So if there's white privilege out there, I have no idea what it is.
A few years back I went to lunch with a coworker. He drove. We were pulled over, supposedly because he failed to signal before a lane change. He also happened to be a large brown male. The cop was totally running him on everything he could think of. Even claimed there had been as series of thefts in the area and ask if my friend "knew anything about it"?? It was obvious harassment, and I was furious. My friend pleaded with me not to say anything. "If you get mad, they win," was what he said. So I sat there and waited. For thirty minutes, while my co-worker (a brilliant and successful software developer) was treated like a common criminal.

So, if you don't think white privilege is real - you're either very, very sheltered and living in a bubble, a complete fucking idiot, or a liar. Which is it?
So, you think a white male will not have the same problem if he is in the same troubling area and breaks traffic law.
Yes. I know so. We weren't in a "troubling area". We were in an affluent white suburb. And didn't look affluent or white. That's why he gets harrassed and I never do.
I got pulled over and my car was searched many years ago. I stood out as a white guy in a neighborhood that was predominately black and it was very late at night. Yes, I was profiled, but it made perfect sense to me. I can put myself into the cop’s shoes and see why they pulled me over. Was it racist? No, it wasn’t. By the way, one of the cops was black and one was white.
 

kaz

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Well of course the leftists on the site agree with you. I never said otherwise. I just laughed that you believe they don't see that you have a shitty attitude
Not sure who they are. I wasn't talking about leftists on this board. I was talking about my coworkers throughout my history.

I've had no less than four co-workers approach me about jobs at their new places of employment. one of them was a former supervisor. I've also had two past employers approach me about new opportunities. (Although one of them was a large corporation at another location and didn't read far enough down on my resume to realize I worked for them before. I love telling that story to my resume customers.) I get the job done.
Yes, this stupid claim you make that you go out in life with a good attitude while you have a shitty attitude at home. Yeah, sure you do
 

366h34d

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So if there's white privilege out there, I have no idea what it is.
A few years back I went to lunch with a coworker. He drove. We were pulled over, supposedly because he failed to signal before a lane change. He also happened to be a large brown male. The cop was totally running him on everything he could think of. Even claimed there had been as series of thefts in the area and ask if my friend "knew anything about it"?? It was obvious harassment, and I was furious. My friend pleaded with me not to say anything. "If you get mad, they win," was what he said. So I sat there and waited. For thirty minutes, while my co-worker (a brilliant and successful software developer) was treated like a common criminal.

So, if you don't think white privilege is real - you're either very, very sheltered and living in a bubble, a complete fucking idiot, or a liar. Which is it?
So, you think a white male will not have the same problem if he is in the same troubling area and breaks traffic law.
Yes. I know so. We weren't in a "troubling area". We were in an affluent white suburb. And didn't look affluent or white. That's why he gets harrassed and I never do.
First of all, I am not moving the goal post. Did you guys live in that area? Cops asking "knew anything about it" is a social engineering
So if there's white privilege out there, I have no idea what it is.
A few years back I went to lunch with a coworker. He drove. We were pulled over, supposedly because he failed to signal before a lane change. He also happened to be a large brown male. The cop was totally running him on everything he could think of. Even claimed there had been as series of thefts in the area and ask if my friend "knew anything about it"?? It was obvious harassment, and I was furious. My friend pleaded with me not to say anything. "If you get mad, they win," was what he said. So I sat there and waited. For thirty minutes, while my co-worker (a brilliant and successful software developer) was treated like a common criminal.

So, if you don't think white privilege is real - you're either very, very sheltered and living in a bubble, a complete fucking idiot, or a liar. Which is it?
So, you think a white male will not have the same problem if he is in the same troubling area and breaks traffic law.
Yes. I know so. We weren't in a "troubling area". We were in an affluent white suburb. And didn't look affluent or white. That's why he gets harrassed and I never do.
First of all, I am not moving the goal post. Did you guys live in that area? Cops asking "knew anything about it" is social engineering stuff. Maybe cops are racists. But said that is white privilege, it is a little reach and completely covers the real problems (racism, classism ....). If you want to know REAL white privilege, goto Eastern Asian.

watch this video, before the cops knew who he was. The cops were not nice too.
 
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kaz

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The cop was totally running him on everything he could think of
What the fuck are you talking about?

1) You couldn't possibly know what the cop was running

2) There aren't options. They phone in all pull overs and there is a standard check. There aren't options where they keep checking other things

Anecdotal arguments are the worse. If you feel the cop was inappropriate, do nothing on the scene but follow all the cops instructions immediately and fully. Get his badge number and report him later. Tell them what you saw.

Sure, there are bad cops out there. But don't make shit up like he had a secret list of additional checks he could run, that was just stupid
 

Correll

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Yes it can both. White offenders, committing the same crime are less likely to receive jail time.
Agree 100%. I have studied the topic.

Being African American adds on average 20% to prison term for the same crime.

Link to verified sources?

Did you bother to read it? Direct quotes:

"A key empirical challenge in answering this question is the lack of data on true criminal conduct."

"We find that the majority of the disparity between black and white sentences can be explained by differences in legally permitted characteristics, in particular, the arrest offense and the defendant’s criminal history. Black arrestees are also disproportionately concentrated in federal districts that have higher sentences in general. Yet even after we control for these and other prior characteristics, an unexplained black-white sentence disparity of approximately 9 percent remains in our main sample."

First they admit that they lack data. Then they do some statistical analysis that resolves 91% of the difference. Hardly compelling bub, and only one academic paper.

Adn teh final number is NINE percent? Which still they can't show is wacims. It could still be other unknown factors.
 

dblack

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The cop was totally running him on everything he could think of
What the fuck are you talking about?

1) You couldn't possibly know what the cop was running

2) There aren't options. They phone in all pull overs and there is a standard check. There aren't options where they keep checking other things

Anecdotal arguments are the worse. If you feel the cop was inappropriate, do nothing on the scene but follow all the cops instructions immediately and fully. Get his badge number and report him later. Tell them what you saw.

Sure, there are bad cops out there. But don't make shit up like he had a secret list of additional checks he could run, that was just stupid
You're pretty good at missing the point. Or, rather, deliberately steering around it.
 

boedicca

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Yes it can both. White offenders, committing the same crime are less likely to receive jail time.
Agree 100%. I have studied the topic.

Being African American adds on average 20% to prison term for the same crime.

Link to verified sources?

Did you bother to read it? Direct quotes:

"A key empirical challenge in answering this question is the lack of data on true criminal conduct."

"We find that the majority of the disparity between black and white sentences can be explained by differences in legally permitted characteristics, in particular, the arrest offense and the defendant’s criminal history. Black arrestees are also disproportionately concentrated in federal districts that have higher sentences in general. Yet even after we control for these and other prior characteristics, an unexplained black-white sentence disparity of approximately 9 percent remains in our main sample."

First they admit that they lack data. Then they do some statistical analysis that resolves 91% of the difference. Hardly compelling bub, and only one academic paper.

Adn teh final number is NINE percent? Which still they can't show is wacims. It could still be other unknown factors.
No, the final number is 9% of the % difference. I didn't bother to read the entire pile of codswollop, but if one starts with a 20% difference, the amount after adjusting for non-racist, non-biases factors leave 1.8% unexplained. Given that they admit up front that they lack data on "true criminal conduct", this 1.8% is statistically irrelevant.
 

dblack

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So if there's white privilege out there, I have no idea what it is.
A few years back I went to lunch with a coworker. He drove. We were pulled over, supposedly because he failed to signal before a lane change. He also happened to be a large brown male. The cop was totally running him on everything he could think of. Even claimed there had been as series of thefts in the area and ask if my friend "knew anything about it"?? It was obvious harassment, and I was furious. My friend pleaded with me not to say anything. "If you get mad, they win," was what he said. So I sat there and waited. For thirty minutes, while my co-worker (a brilliant and successful software developer) was treated like a common criminal.

So, if you don't think white privilege is real - you're either very, very sheltered and living in a bubble, a complete fucking idiot, or a liar. Which is it?
So, you think a white male will not have the same problem if he is in the same troubling area and breaks traffic law.
Yes. I know so. We weren't in a "troubling area". We were in an affluent white suburb. And didn't look affluent or white. That's why he gets harrassed and I never do.
I got pulled over and my car was searched many years ago. I stood out as a white guy in a neighborhood that was predominately black and it was very late at night. Yes, I was profiled, but it made perfect sense to me. I can put myself into the cop’s shoes and see why they pulled me over. Was it racist? No, it wasn’t. By the way, one of the cops was black and one was white.
This issue isn't profiling, or whether it is justified or not. The issue is whether white privilege exists, whether white people get breaks that black people don't. They do. There's really no denying that. If there'd been no dark-skinned person in the car, we likely wouldn't have been pulled over. We wouldn't have sat there for thirty minutes under scrutiny.
 

kaz

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The cop was totally running him on everything he could think of
What the fuck are you talking about?

1) You couldn't possibly know what the cop was running

2) There aren't options. They phone in all pull overs and there is a standard check. There aren't options where they keep checking other things

Anecdotal arguments are the worse. If you feel the cop was inappropriate, do nothing on the scene but follow all the cops instructions immediately and fully. Get his badge number and report him later. Tell them what you saw.

Sure, there are bad cops out there. But don't make shit up like he had a secret list of additional checks he could run, that was just stupid
You're pretty good at missing the point. Or, rather, deliberately steering around it.
Swash, you missed another one:

1) That you read minds was a terrible argument and totally undercut your credibility

2) You handled it inappropriately

So seriously, why didn't you get his badge number and report what you witnessed? Just wanted to be offended, not do anything?
 

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