'My health insurance is going up to $800 a month with a $15k deductible and that's the CHEAPEST PLAN"

[Delldude]

Insurance companies are licensed by state laws.

That's what I was pointing out and one thing Trump wants to change. That alone would create price competition.

You can't stand being wrong?

Coming from you that's funny as hell.

 

[Lisa558]

Funny how mandates are only “unconstitutional” when people don’t like the policy. The Supreme Court upheld the ACA mandate as constitutional under Congress’s taxing power.

Mandates themselves clearly aren’t unconstitutional, states mandate car insurance all the time.

What is unconstitutional, apparently, is applied very selectively. Free speech issues, executive war powers, due process violations, those suddenly stop mattering when the president has the right letter next to his name.

I don’t mind constitutional arguments. I do mind them being used as a partisan veto rather than a principle applied consistently.

And Roberts was blackmailed into supporting the unconstitutional mandate. He rattled off a slew of reasons as to why forcing American citizens to buy a private product was prohibited, and then said “but OK.”

You cannot “tax” people for not buying a private product. Nor can you penalize them.

And besides, the Obamacrap scheme still wouldn’t have worked. Since insurance companies have to cover preexisting conditions, people could and did figure that they’d rather pay a $2000 penalty than be forced to spend triple that on insurance - and if they needed it because they got sick, THEN they would buy it.

If that nonsense were applied elsewhere, I would just skip car insurance - and then buy it if I got in an accident.

 

[JoeB131]

And Roberts was blackmailed into supporting the unconstitutional mandate. He rattled off a slew of reasons as to why forcing American citizens to buy a private product was prohibited, and then said “but OK.”

You cannot “tax” people for not buying a private product. Nor can you penalize them.

And besides, the Obamacrap scheme still wouldn’t have worked. Since insurance companies have to cover preexisting conditions, people could and did figure that they’d rather pay a $2000 penalty than be forced to spend triple that on insurance - and if they needed it because they got sick, THEN they would buy it.

If that nonsense were applied elsewhere, I would just skip car insurance - and then buy it if I got in an accident.

As tempting as it is to insert a joke here, your car is not your body.

How was Roberts "blackmailed" exactly? This should be good.

The way to have avoided all this would have been to allow a Medicare Buy-In for people over 55 and a public option for those who can't get it through their employer.

Who shot those down? Joe Liberman (D-Israel), who thinks only Zionists deserve universal health care, not Americans!

The problem isn't just O-care. It's the whole rotten health system. My private plan through my employer just jumped 33%, and it covers less. I'd probably be okay if it were just me, but I'm also covering my wife, which costs me an extra $800 a month.

She turns 65 next month, but I can't put her on Medicare because she isn't a citizen yet. (She probably does qualify as a permanent resident alien, but given the political climate, we dare not risk it.)

Simple solution- Single Payer, government sets REASONABLE prices for treatment. Tax the ever-loving shit out of the rich to pay for it. Problem solved.

 

[WorldWatcher]

And Roberts was blackmailed into supporting the unconstitutional mandate. He rattled off a slew of reasons as to why forcing American citizens to buy a private product was prohibited, and then said “but OK.”

You cannot “tax” people for not buying a private product. Nor can you penalize them.

And besides, the Obamacrap scheme still wouldn’t have worked. Since insurance companies have to cover preexisting conditions, people could and did figure that they’d rather pay a $2000 penalty than be forced to spend triple that on insurance - and if they needed it because they got sick, THEN they would buy it.

If that nonsense were applied elsewhere, I would just skip car insurance - and then buy it if I got in an accident.

Except...

#1 You are requried by law to carry car insurance if you own/operate a vehicle.

#2 Good luck getting an auto insurance company to pay for a vehcile accident AFTER the accident has already occured.

#3 Which means your comparision is invalid - to a degree - because mandatory issue coving preexisting conditions DOES NOT make the insurance company liable for any medical bills prior to the date on the policy. Have a vehicle accident, spend a week in ICU, weeks of home recovery and maybe years of physical therapy? Sure once you are on your feet you can get a policy, but that will only cover future costs, not past costs.

WW

 

[forkup]

You cannot “tax” people for not buying a private product. Nor can you penalize them.

You clearly can. It happens all the time. In car insurance for instance.

 

[Lisa558]

You clearly can. It happens all the time. In car insurance for instance.

You don’t have to buy car insurance. That’s only if you voluntarily decide to buy a car.

There is no private product one is required to buy simply for being alive.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The way to have avoided all this would have been to allow a Medicare Buy-In for people over 55 and a public option for those who can't get it through their employer.

What if... There was competition for employer sponsored plans.

...... ...... ...... The government created a quasi-independent not for profit Health Insurance Organization?

...... ...... ...... ...... ...... ...... Call it something like "US Heath Insurance Service" (USHIS)

PREMISE:

• USHIS would be established as an indepented organization similar to the Post Office.
• USHIS would be not for profit.
• USHIS would be self-funded.
• USHIS could offer policies through the ACA (subsidized).
• USHIS could offer individual policies outside of ACA for individuals not qualifying for ACA.
• USHIS could offer group plans to employers and other groups (religious, union, trade, credit unions, etc.).
• USHIS could offer health, dental, vision, and long term care plans.
• USHIS could bid on contracts just, like other health insurance companies, for processing MediAid, MediCare, VA, and TRICARE claims processing.
• USHIS would have a board of governors appointed for staggered 6 year terms with: 3 Appointed by the Senate Majority Leader, 3 Appointed by the Senate Minority Leader, 3 Appointed by the Speaker of the House, 3 Appointed by the House Minority Leader, and 1 Appointed by the President. (Total 15). The "Chairman" for the board would be selected from the pool of 15 members by the members themselves - not appointed by executive or legislative branch.
• Services would be scaled to regions (I don't know how many) and not a one-size fits all as different regions in the country have different cost of living and therefore different costs of providing care.

As a non-profit entity, it would not be beholden to shareholders.

It would would be open to offering group plans to employers (private small businesses, corporations, local/state/federal contracts, non-profit organizations, etc.) and would have to complete on a cost/efficiency basis with private for profit insurance companies.
Could such an organization:

1. Be competative?
2. Lower health care costs by removing for profit and being more efficient?

And remember, we are NOT creating a government bureaucracy, the intent is a non-profit, more effient system as an alternative to compete at scale.

WW

 

[Slyhunter]

What does Romney have to do with all of that? That was Kerry only.

Yeah ell Romney is a pansy.

 

[Delldude]

What if... There was competition for employer sponsored plans.

...... ...... ...... The government created a quasi-independent not for profit Health Insurance Organization?

...... ...... ...... ...... ...... ...... Call it something like "US Heath Insurance Service" (USHIS)

PREMISE:

• USHIS would be established as an indepented organization similar to the Post Office.
• USHIS would be not for profit.
• USHIS would be self-funded.
• USHIS could offer policies through the ACA (subsidized).
• USHIS could offer individual policies outside of ACA for individuals not qualifying for ACA.
• USHIS could offer group plans to employers and other groups (religious, union, trade, credit unions, etc.).
• USHIS could offer health, dental, vision, and long term care plans.
• USHIS could bid on contracts just, like other health insurance companies, for processing MediAid, MediCare, VA, and TRICARE claims processing.
• USHIS would have a board of governors appointed for staggered 6 year terms with: 3 Appointed by the Senate Majority Leader, 3 Appointed by the Senate Minority Leader, 3 Appointed by the Speaker of the House, 3 Appointed by the House Minority Leader, and 1 Appointed by the President. (Total 15). The "Chairman" for the board would be selected from the pool of 15 members by the members themselves - not appointed by executive or legislative branch.
• Services would be scaled to regions (I don't know how many) and not a one-size fits all as different regions in the country have different cost of living and therefore different costs of providing care.

As a non-profit entity, it would not be beholden to shareholders.

It would would be open to offering group plans to employers (private small businesses, corporations, local/state/federal contracts, non-profit organizations, etc.) and would have to complete on a cost/efficiency basis with private for profit insurance companies.
Could such an organization:

1. Be competative?
2. Lower health care costs by removing for profit and being more efficient?

And remember, we are NOT creating a government bureaucracy, the intent is a non-profit, more effient system as an alternative to compete at scale.

WW

Bingo. Those are also some of the options the Trump administration are considering.

How was Roberts "blackmailed" exactly? This should be good.

He didn't want to go down in history as the deciding vote to derail the first black president's first piece of major legislation.

 

[Lisa558]

Bingo. Those are also some of the options the Trump administration are considering.


He didn't want to go down in history as the deciding vote to derail the first black president's first piece of major legislation.

That was because ANY time someone criticized Obama’s actions, he was called a racist. I clearly remember sitting in my office the day after Obamacare passed when the leftist in the next office came in to rub it in my face. Here is how the discussion went:

The idiot Leftist: “Lisa, isn’t it great that our president is now making sure that all Americans can get health care? It’s going to be cheaper and better, too.”

Me: “How can a product be better, cheaper, and cover more people all at the same time”?

The Idiot: “You’re such a racist.”

 

[JoeB131]

You don’t have to buy car insurance. That’s only if you voluntarily decide to buy a car.

There is no private product one is required to buy simply for being alive.

Actually, most states require you to have at least liability insurance if you drive.

What amazes me is that for years and years, the Right Wing insisted on a private sector solution to health care, and when Obama gave them one, they screamed to high heaven about it.

 

[JoeB131]

That was because ANY time someone criticized Obama’s actions, he was called a racist. I clearly remember sitting in my office the day after Obamacare passed when the leftist in the next office came in to rub it in my face. Here is how the discussion went:

The idiot Leftist: “Lisa, isn’t it great that our president is now making sure that all Americans can get health care? It’s going to be cheaper and better, too.”

Me: “How can a product be better, cheaper, and cover more people all at the same time”?

The Idiot: “You’re such a racist.”

One can only sympathize with people who had to work with you in an office.

the fact is, Obamacare did slow the rate of Medical inflation by increasing the coverage pool and controlling some costs.

And, yes, you are a racist. This has been established.

 

[Delldude]

Actually, most states require you to have at least liability insurance if you drive.

What amazes me is that for years and years, the Right Wing insisted on a private sector solution to health care, and when Obama gave them one, they screamed to high heaven about it.

Obamascare was a stepping stone to single payer. They knew HC costs would do exactly what it's doing now and people would be begging for an alternative. If Dems were in control, they'd be selling a fully subsidized government 'fix'..... government provided government controlled.

 

[Delldude]

the fact is, Obamacare did slow the rate of Medical inflation by increasing the coverage pool and controlling some costs.

Only through subsidies to the HC industry.

 

[Lisa558]

Obamascare was a stepping stone to single payer. They knew HC costs would do exactly what it's doing now and people would be begging for an alternative. If Dems were in control, they'd be selling a fully subsidized government 'fix'..... government provided government controlled.

They teach that strategy in business school too: if the program you want fails to win approval, intentionally design an alternative that will fail.

Obama’s plan was that Obamacare would start to collapse when Hillary was president, from 2016 to 2024, and she would herald in Universal Health Poor Care.

Oops. Trump won. And with it, Obama’s devious plan to continue marching America toward socialism was halted.

 

[Delldude]

Obama’s plan was that Obamacare would start to collapse when Hillary was president, from 2016 to 2024, and she would herald in Universal Health Poor Care.

There were videos on YouTube from The Apollo Project and The Tides Foundation, Soros lackeys, where they actually said this was only a stepping stone to single payer. Try and find them now.

 

[Lisa558]

There were videos on YouTube from The Apollo Project and The Tides Foundation, Soros lackeys, where they actually said this was only a stepping stone to single payer. Try and find them now.

This is why Vance/Rubio MUST win in 2028, and we hold the WH for the next 15 years. We need to hold the evil Left at bay.

 

[Delldude]

We need to hold the evil Left at bay.

Remember when Hillary was co-president? The behind closed door meetings with the HC industry?
Many terms like 'quality of life'....'you've lived your life', etc.
Then Obama comments like maybe Grandma doesn't need that knee replacement, she can just take a pill. All kinds of indications it's pretty much better for society if you die.

COVID??? Putting the infected in old people's homes? You think that was a coincidence?
Remember that Pennsylvania HC secretary Robert/Rachel who just happened to pull his/her mother out of one?

Single payer, just don't eat the soylent green.

 

[forkup]

You don’t have to buy car insurance. That’s only if you voluntarily decide to buy a car.

There is no private product one is required to buy simply for being alive.

So your argument is: “You’re only required to buy car insurance if you choose to drive, therefore it’s not really a mandate.”
That’s not an argument, that’s a semantic dodge. It works only if you pretend the underlying activity isn’t a normal, unavoidable part of modern life.

By that logic:
You’re not forced to pay payroll taxes, just don’t work.
You’re not forced to follow building codes, just don’t live in a house.
You’re not forced to buy fire insurance, just don’t own anything that can burn.
Technically optional. Practically unavoidable.

Healthcare is even more fundamental than driving. Everyone will need medical care at some point. Pretending otherwise doesn’t make the costs disappear, it just shifts them to emergency rooms, taxpayers, or long-term disability systems.

So yes, the government compels behavior all the time when the alternative is unrealistic, socially harmful, or economically irrational. Health insurance isn’t some radical exception, it’s exactly how modern societies manage unavoidable risk.

 

[Lisa558]

So your argument is: “You’re only required to buy car insurance if you choose to drive, therefore it’s not really a mandate.”
That’s not an argument, that’s a semantic dodge. It works only if you pretend the underlying activity isn’t a normal, unavoidable part of modern life.

By that logic:
You’re not forced to pay payroll taxes, just don’t work.
You’re not forced to follow building codes, just don’t live in a house.
You’re not forced to buy fire insurance, just don’t own anything that can burn.
Technically optional. Practically unavoidable.

Healthcare is even more fundamental than driving. Everyone will need medical care at some point. Pretending otherwise doesn’t make the costs disappear, it just shifts them to emergency rooms, taxpayers, or long-term disability systems.

So yes, the government compels behavior all the time when the alternative is unrealistic, socially harmful, or economically irrational. Health insurance isn’t some radical exception, it’s exactly how modern societies manage unavoidable risk.

Paying taxes is not forcing purchase of a product. Your other examples are optional - you don’t HAVE to buy a house.

And Obamacare drove up costs to the point that even people earning $100,000 can’t afford health insurance now (unless other people buy it for them).

It’s been a disaster. The truth is we were better off before the Marxist tried to send us down the path to socialized medicine.