Zone1 my black ancestors sold slaves to white slavers but I blame the white slavers.

[surada]

Who had to convert to Islam or be enslaved themselves.

Nope. You should read up on the Barbary pirates. They were renegades who's home ports were up and down the coast of Libya. Several of the more famous ones were Jews.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Nope, but they were truly awful people. All of them were, from their leaders down. Slavery was super cool in their eyes. They were pissed when we banned it. White people had to take ships to stop Africa from continuing their international slave trade. England spent what would be equal to trillions of dollars today, on fighting the slave trade in Africa and South America.

The only reason Brazil isnt still buying African slaves today is because of white people. YOURE WELCOME!

Stopping the international slave trade was about the only thing the British and US agreed upon. The US navy served alongside the British Royal Navy in stopping the slave trade

 

[Foxfyre]

Yup that's what we have in a nut shell from people that post about whites being solely responsible for slavery in America.

A History of African Traders of Enslaved People

During the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Europeans bought from African traders that sold enslaved Africans due to debt, class, or lack of empathy.

www.thoughtco.com

perfect example of this blame whites but not blacks

the countries that sold blacks into slavery in Africa, 10 African nations involved in the slave trade - Think Africa

Yup. The late Walter Williams PhD (RIP) believed he was descended from slaves captured somewhere along the Ivory Coast. But he was a fierce critic of the reparations scam that some wanted to run on U.S. citizens or that modern day black people could blame their lack of success on slavery. He said the cultures and customs of old involved all peoples, races, ethnicities, etc.

Per his arguments (paraphrased here):
--Many black Americans did not descend from slaves.
--Many black Americans descend from black slave owners.
--Many black Americans descend from freed slaves who went on to be quite prosperous.
--Probably many black Americans descend from those who went into the jungles to capture people to sell to the slave traders.
Do these people deserve reparations? Or owe them?

Also many white people fought, risked, gave all of their fortunes and lives to gain freedom and justice for the slaves. Most white Americans do not descend from slave owners or anybody who condoned slavery. Do the descendants of those people owe reparations? Or deserve reparations?

Also:
--The African slave trade was a thriving industry long before Columbus sailed to the Americas with black slave traders selling to Muslim & European countries. The African slave trade, run by Africans, was a booming industry dating back to the Roman Empire. In the 16th Century Spain and Portugal utilized slave trade and labor in Mexico, Central and South America before slaves first arrived in North America.

It was not Americans but rather mostly British and Portuguese plus fewer ships from Spain, Holland and others, that brought the slaves to America.

All this is to say that the dichotomies and murkiness of the history when tracing it to modern times makes it pretty much impossible to definitively say which, if any, living Americans should feel liable or personally guilty about past injustices and/or who owes anybody anything.

 

[surada]

Which part do you not agree with?

I don't think you can assign blame. Both were wrong. My ancestors who worked for the Dutch West Indies company were Christians.. but they believed in the curse of Ham.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I don't think you can assign blame. Both were wrong. My ancestors who worked for the Dutch West Indies company were Christians.. but they believed in the curse of Ham.

LOL yet you are never in the threads by the black racist on this board blaming whites and marginalizing black participation and you keep trying to derail this thread ,

 

[surada]

LOL yet you are never in the threads by the black racist on this board blaming whites and marginalizing black participation and you keep trying to derail this thread ,

Slave Manifests for Charleston

Also look up Manifests by Slave Name Click on each Ship name to view the list of slaves included on that trip. [table striped="true" responsive="true"][table striped="true" responsive="true"]Slave Owner ShipShip Master Shipper Outbound Port DateAdams, David Edgefield Sassard, John Unknown...

www.archives.gov

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Slave Manifests for Charleston

Also look up Manifests by Slave Name Click on each Ship name to view the list of slaves included on that trip. [table striped="true" responsive="true"][table striped="true" responsive="true"]Slave Owner ShipShip Master Shipper Outbound Port DateAdams, David Edgefield Sassard, John Unknown...

www.archives.gov

Again if blacks hadnt sold the black slaves to the white slavers there would have been no ships loaded with slaves from Africa.

 

[surada]

Again if blacks hadnt sold the black slaves to the white slavers there would have been no ships loaded with slaves from Africa.

The sugar plantations in Brazil were desperate for labor.

 

[surada]

Nearly 1,000 Cargos: The Legacy of Importing Africans into Charleston

www.ccpl.org

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The sugar plantations in Brazil were desperate for labor.

And would have had no black slaves if black nations hadnt sold them to white slavers

Nearly 1,000 Cargos: The Legacy of Importing Africans into Charleston

www.ccpl.org

stop derailing the thread this is about blacks selling blacks you want a thread on the white slavers make your own.

 

[surada]

And would have had no black slaves if black nations hadnt sold them to white slavers

stop derailing the thread this is about blacks selling blacks you want a thread on the white slavers make your own.

It was big business.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It was big business.

which has 2 participants white and black. we are discussing the black side

 

[surada]

which has 2 participants white and black. we are discussing the black side

The Africans got pots and pans, tools, textiles and whiskey.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The Africans got pots and pans, tools, textiles and whiskey.

so what? they also got cannon and firearms and in some cases cash. does what they were paid somehow lessen the fact they were slavers?

 

[EvMetro]

I don't think you can assign blame. Both were wrong. My ancestors who worked for the Dutch West Indies company were Christians.. but they believed in the curse of Ham.

Is it reasonable to assert that the slavery of blacks originated with blacks selling blacks?

 

[EvMetro]

The Africans got pots and pans, tools, textiles and whiskey.

Do you feel uncomfortable acknowledging that black slavery in America began with blacks selling them?

 

[surada]

Is it reasonable to assert that the slavery of blacks originated with blacks selling blacks?

In terms of the US slave trade? I don't think so. The sugar plantations in Brazil were buying African slaves before 1600 and many of the sugar planters went into the slave trade. This was cooked up in the Netherlands and Portugal in 1492 during the expulsion.

It's idiotic to place the blame on Africans.

 

[surada]

The slave trade began in Brazil about 1516.

Slavery in Brazil - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The slave trade began in Brazil about 1516.

Slavery in Brazil - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

the Africans were selling slaves long before that. And again No blacks sold no slaves in Brazil.

 

[IM2]

Yup that's what we have in a nut shell from people that post about whites being solely responsible for slavery in America.

A History of African Traders of Enslaved People

During the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Europeans bought from African traders that sold enslaved Africans due to debt, class, or lack of empathy.

www.thoughtco.com

perfect example of this blame whites but not blacks

the countries that sold blacks into slavery in Africa, 10 African nations involved in the slave trade - Think Africa

Let me use your "logic" to begin. First, there are no slaves in America if whites don't make the purchases. Second Africans did not make slavery legal in America.

389,000 slaves were imported to America by 1808. By 1860 there were 4 million. Whites at that time called what they did natural increase, but what that natural increase included was making girls as young as 11-12 to mass produce children. Most were forced to birth 10-15 children before they could stop. If they lived. Now Africans did not do any of the things I have described and furthermore your disingenuous opinion leaves out a whole lot of things. Africans did not take ships full of captives into Europe and offer them up for sale.

Whites have a long history of divide and conquer and the next post will be something I posted earlier from an African who talks about the African role in the slave trade. We get the white version and the OP is arguing the stormfront version, but as the great Walter Rodney said:

“One major author on the slave trade (appropriately titled Sins of Our Fathers) explained how many white people urged him to state that the trade was the responsibility of African chiefs, and that Europeans merely turned up to buy captives- as though without European demand there would have been captives sitting on the beach by the millions! "