Most successful fighter in WWII

[westwall]

Isn't it correct that P47s scored more kills than the P51?

More air to air, yes.

 

[Oddball]

James Thach thinks you're funny! From 1941 - early 1943 thousands of Japanese airmen died. Nothing says love like a boom and zoom burning another Val.

It was even loved by RAF crews.*

*Nothing weirder than to watch old RAF film of RN attacks against the Tirpitz and seeing Corsairs whizzing by the camera flying cover against German fighters.

The Val was overmatched by a Brewster Buffalo.....F4F only was effective against Zeros if it had an altitude advantage.

 

[Kruska]

Oh shoot - sorry my bad, mental hemorrhage
Gabrewski was flying the F-86 in Korea I just remembered

No P-47's in Korea - wow! would have never crossed my mind - thanks for the update.

 

[westwall]

Oh shoot - sorry my bad, mental hemorrhage
Gabrewski was flying the F-86 in Korea I just remembered

No P-47's in Korea - wow! would have never crossed my mind - thanks for the update.

No worries.

 

[Kruska]

James Thach thinks you're funny! From 1941 - early 1943 thousands of Japanese airmen died. Nothing says love like a boom and zoom burning another Val.

It was even loved by RAF crews.*

*Nothing weirder than to watch old RAF film of RN attacks against the Tirpitz and seeing Corsairs whizzing by the camera flying cover against German fighters.

The Brits had quite a respectable number of F4U's - something around 1500-2000 aircraft?
A friend of my father and me, a British Sqd. Leader was with the fleet air arm - flying the F4U - but not involved with the Tirpitz, had a great photo-album collection.
The F4U is actually my favorite US fighter aircraft in WW2.

 

[Zincwarrior]

The Val was overmatched by a Brewster Buffalo.....F4F only was effective against Zeros if it had an altitude advantage.

Or a thach weave. Wildcats appear, AGMs disappear.

 

[Oddball]

Or a thach weave. Wildcats appear, AGMs disappear.

Full throttle, then pull up, and the thatch weave is useless.

 

[Vrenn]

Yes, I am aware of that D-13 and it's background history. "fantastic" restoration effort indeed - a big thank you, to Mr. David Kyte and Mr. Champlin for that huge effort and great workmanship by Dave, GossHawk Inc. It was captured in Holland - the one my father flew, his comrade and another D-13 type were based around Lager-Lechfeld and Oberpaffenhofen (in regard to protecting the flight evaluation/testing of the Do-335).

Always wonder as to how the Do-335 would have fared in a 1944 scenario.

A further 2-3 examples including a D-15 were based around Laupheim - so probably not more then 6-7 off these D-13's having been in or seen action.

Had a hotter version of the Dora been introduced, the P-47H would have been introduced as well as the P-38K. But as it stands, the Bearcat was introduced that would have negated the D-13 and D-15. I am sure that there were a couple of British companies with one or two in the pipeline. Of course, let's not discount the P-80A.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Full throttle, then pull up, and the thatch weave is useless.

And the Zero’s ability to affect the outcome of the battle disappears. If the Zero disengages, it leaves the Wildcats free to kill the bombers the Zero is escorting, or if the Zero is the interceptor, it leaves the American bombers free to continue the mission. Interceptor’s job is to kill bombers, not fighters,

 

[westwall]

And the Zero’s ability to affect the outcome of the battle disappears. If the Zero disengages, it leaves the Wildcats free to kill the bombers the Zero is escorting, or if the Zero is the interceptor, it leaves the American bombers free to continue the mission. Interceptor’s job is to kill bombers, not fighters,

The Zero orbits out of reach, the Wildcats break out of the "weave" to engage the bombers and are destroyed in detail.

The Wildcat must remain in the weave till the Zero's depart. The Zero's have a longer range than the F4F so it stands to reason they never get to engage the bombers.

The F4F was a good airplane. But it was outclassed by the Zero. By a lot.

 

[Kruska]

Had a hotter version of the Dora been introduced, the P-47H would have been introduced as well as the P-38K. But as it stands, the Bearcat was introduced that would have negated the D-13 and D-15. I am sure that there were a couple of British companies with one or two in the pipeline. Of course, let's not discount the P-80A.

Oh yeah sure, all sides were continuously developing and readying new aircraft. Aside from the A-bomb having destroyed any illusions by Nazi-Germany latest in August, Germany would also have continued to bring out new aircraft's - latest by summer/autumn 1945.
Such as further variants of the Me-262, the Me-263, the Do-335, the Ho-229 and maybe the "worlds"? best aircraft available in that extended time-frame - the Me-P1011.
All flown by 14 year old Werewolf's.

I don't think the 1945's P-80's would have been better then those existing P-47's or P-51's. The high-powered US prop-planes that were in the pipeline I believe would have outperformed the P-80.
Realistically within an extend timeline to August/September 1945, Aside the USA's readied high-power props, probably only the Brit's could have come up with further solid hardware such as the Meteor and the deHavilland Vampire in an early "world first plywood jet" configuration. just joking, they already had metal skins in Summer 1945.

Actually the Vampire is a great example as to what attention the Brit's payed towards the training of pilots - whilst all new German ideas were solely concentrated around fighter frontline aircraft. The Vampire already beheld the jet-trainer idea - the later produced T55 variant - the first jet fighter trainer to have the pilot and student sit side by side.

 

[Vrenn]

Oh yeah sure, all sides were continuously developing and readying new aircraft. Aside from the A-bomb having destroyed any illusions by Nazi-Germany latest in August, Germany would also have continued to bring out new aircraft's - latest by summer/autumn 1945.
Such as further variants of the Me-262, the Me-263, the Do-335, the Ho-229 and maybe the "worlds"? best aircraft available in that extended time-frame - the Me-P1011.
All flown by 14 year old Werewolf's.

I don't think the 1945's P-80's would have been better then those existing P-47's or P-51's. The high-powered US prop-planes that were in the pipeline I believe would have outperformed the P-80.
Realistically within an extend timeline to August/September 1945, Aside the USA's readied high-power props, probably only the Brit's could have come up with further solid hardware such as the Meteor and the deHavilland Vampire in an early "world first plywood jet" configuration. just joking, they already had metal skins in Summer 1945.

Actually the Vampire is a great example as to what attention the Brit's payed towards the training of pilots - whilst all new German ideas were solely concentrated around fighter frontline aircraft. The Vampire already beheld the jet-trainer idea - the later produced T55 variant - the first jet fighter trainer to have the pilot and student sit side by side.

When the ETO ended, there were only two countries with over 500 mile per hour jet fighters and that was Germany (ME262) and the US (5 in Italy YP-80) I still believe the AR234 was the cause to place those 5 P-80s into Italy. It wasn't a coincidence that about that time the ARs ceased to operate over Italy. By the time VJ Day arrived, the P-80 exceeded 600mph which was about 100 mph faster than anything you could fly with a prop. Given a little more time and resources, the ME262 could have reached that speed as well.

Britain went through a small bubble on their leading. But by 1948 they had lost all to the US and it pretty well stayed that way for at least a decade. About the time Britain would come out with something good, the US or France would already have something as good or better already flying. Time to break out the conspiracy theories on this one.

It took Germany 30 years to get on track to become competitive.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Full throttle, then pull up, and the thatch weave is useless.

Tell that to all the dead Japanese.

 

[Zincwarrior]

TRAVIS

The Zero orbits out of reach, the Wildcats break out of the "weave" to engage the bombers and are destroyed in detail.

The Wildcat must remain in the weave till the Zero's depart. The Zero's have a longer range than the F4F so it stands to reason they never get to engage the bombers.

The F4F was a good airplane. But it was outclassed by the Zero. By a lot.

Zero losses say the opposite.

 

[westwall]

TRAVIS

Zero losses say the opposite.

Most of whom were flying dive bombers and torpedo planes. Fighters do real good against them.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Most of whom were flying dive bombers and torpedo planes. Fighters do real good against them.

By Midway they were less than 1:1 against USN pilots. As the Kido Butai pilots went by by kill rates escalated. And then of course came the Hellcat and Corsair in 1943. Boom boom.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The Zero orbits out of reach, the Wildcats break out of the "weave" to engage the bombers and are destroyed in detail.

The Wildcat must remain in the weave till the Zero's depart. The Zero's have a longer range than the F4F so it stands to reason they never get to engage the bombers.

The F4F was a good airplane. But it was outclassed by the Zero. By a lot.

You obviously have no idea what the Tatch Weave was. Fighters didn't go into it until a Zero was lining up to attack one of the element pair. Then the attacked plane turned at an angle to his wingman leading the Zero across the wingman's guns who was turning into the Zero. The Zero then had the choice of breaking off the attack or being destroyed by the wingman. The USN and USAAF both used the Germen developed "finger four" formation composed of two, two plane elements that ALWAYS stayed together in combat. The four-plane formation would separate into two plane elements during combat, but pilots "lone wolfing it" was not accepted.

 

[Mushroom]

The four-plane formation would separate into two plane elements during combat, but pilots "lone wolfing it" was not accepted.

Unless you were Pappy Boyington.

Of course, he was not a great example as he was ultimately shot down.

 

[BothWings]

Those planes listed are without a doubt some of the best. But there's also this:

 

[westwall]

You obviously have no idea what the Tatch Weave was. Fighters didn't go into it until a Zero was lining up to attack one of the element pair. Then the attacked plane turned at an angle to his wingman leading the Zero across the wingman's guns who was turning into the Zero. The Zero then had the choice of breaking off the attack or being destroyed by the wingman. The USN and USAAF both used the Germen developed "finger four" formation composed of two, two plane elements that ALWAYS stayed together in combat. The four-plane formation would separate into two plane elements during combat, but pilots "lone wolfing it" was not accepted.

Oh, I know what it was. And as I said, the Wildcats needed to stay closer together to implement it while the Zero's orbited out of reach. So long as the threat was there, the Wildcats couldn't take off after the bombers. That is a simple fact. Fortunately those situations rarely occurred. And, as the war continued, and the Japanese fuel situation worsened, they had fewer and fewer well trained pilots to counter us.