That is a team Palestine trait as you have failed to show Israel has murdered any civilians yet
Most Palestinians in West Bank Oppose Stabbing Attacks on Israelis
- Thread starter Coyote
- Start date
That is a team Palestine trait as you have failed to show Israel has murdered any civilians yet
As in Syria do you mean.
But as you know hamas prefers to fight from behind women and children even when they have half of gaza as open space. So the civilian casualties are all their fault and they should be dragged to the Hague on charges of genocide and mass murder. I don't see you condemning the use of chemical and biological weapons by hamas fired at Israeli civilians
When a Palestinian is accused of selling land to a Jew they are executed in public and the charges read out. When a Palestinian is accused of homosexuality they are executed in public and their crimes read out. Same for all crimes against islam and Islamic law, still waiting for one to face execution for informing on a fellow muslims, which carries the death penalty.
Trying to deflect away from your obvious Jew hatred and use of emotive language. Are you denying the targets were in fact military and that the people had been given warnings of the intent to bomb them. It is not the pictures that are an issue here but your glaringly obvious Jew hatred and anti Semitism.
Showing that not one Palestinian has faced hamas justice for this crime is the only evidence you need. It is the same as a town in the US saying that it has not arrested anyone on gun related crimes in the last year. This does not mean that there was no gun related crimes, just that no one was arrested.
- Thread starter
- #86
Yes. You do not condemn the callous celebration of the bombing of Gaza - knowing civilians and children will be among those killed. I'm sorry but I just can not see what is a necessary but regrettable action as worthy of celebration. Celebrating it in such a manner, is nothing more than dehumanizing of the other. because the loss of life becomes entertainment.
I find that disturbing - no matter who it is. Whether it's Vietnam, or Gaza, or Israel. I think it encourages a sense that some lives are less than (civilians). Is that a good thing, or is it excusable because it's war? Does that mean it's ok for Palestinians to celebrate the bombings that target IDF but include massive civilian casualties? Why is celebrating death an excusable thing?
This is what was happening beneath the pretty fireworks (and no, I'm not going to post photos of dead bodies): GZA: A Burning Legacy - White Phosphorus in Gaza - Images | Warrick Page Photography
- Thread starter
- #87
What does that even have to do with what I posted above?
And you link proves none of the above does it, as they are the words of another person. This is where we differ as you will believe everything that is bad about Israel, even after it has been proven false. I will check the evidence and make no claims until the evidence is all in.
In this case I note you forget to mention that the group was from Sderot that has faced the brunt of Palestinian terrorism over the years, so it is only to be expected they want to see justice done. Looking at the pictures I see less than 40 people sitting around looking to the distance.
Most as in this one are sombre and quiet
And the pictures do not show any celebrations do they, all they show is a small group of people on a hillside. There is no sign of any celebarations taking place. I could post a picture of thousands of new age followers and claim that they were left wing students rioting and attacking innocents as long as there were no supporting pictures anywhere.
- Thread starter
- #90
And you link proves none of the above does it, as they are the words of another person. This is where we differ as you will believe everything that is bad about Israel, even after it has been proven false. I will check the evidence and make no claims until the evidence is all in.
In this case I note you forget to mention that the group was from Sderot that has faced the brunt of Palestinian terrorism over the years, so it is only to be expected they want to see justice done. Looking at the pictures I see less than 40 people sitting around looking to the distance.
Most as in this one are sombre and quiet
Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza
They look like they're having a good time to me.
Are we going back to this again after it was proven to have been used legally and within the guides available at the time. How about you balance it with the reports on hamas sending people out to collect W.P. that was on the ground and to use it as part of the warheads in qassams aimed at Israeli children.
Remember you said google is your friend, well it is there on google that hamas used W.P. illegally after it was taken of the list of legal substances.
Weatherman2020
Diamond Member
Nice pictures of people watching the Independence Day fireworks.
And you link proves none of the above does it, as they are the words of another person. This is where we differ as you will believe everything that is bad about Israel, even after it has been proven false. I will check the evidence and make no claims until the evidence is all in.
In this case I note you forget to mention that the group was from Sderot that has faced the brunt of Palestinian terrorism over the years, so it is only to be expected they want to see justice done. Looking at the pictures I see less than 40 people sitting around looking to the distance.
Most as in this one are sombre and quiet
Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza
They look like they're having a good time to me.
Obama loves your photos too, they are trustworthy.
And you link proves none of the above does it, as they are the words of another person. This is where we differ as you will believe everything that is bad about Israel, even after it has been proven false. I will check the evidence and make no claims until the evidence is all in.
In this case I note you forget to mention that the group was from Sderot that has faced the brunt of Palestinian terrorism over the years, so it is only to be expected they want to see justice done. Looking at the pictures I see less than 40 people sitting around looking to the distance.
Most as in this one are sombre and quiet
Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza
They look like they're having a good time to me.
You know your second picture down, what would you say if I told you it was a fake. You see the young man in the white shirt and black trousers, well he is a member of the British monarchy. Next to him as a British actor and lastly is another British celebrity. The lines for that part of the picture are blurred and out of focus, as if they have been altered at the pixel level.
On top of this you are adding 2 and 2 and being told the answer is 5 because this is what you want to see. The dialogue does not match the action
As in this
Socialists and muslims gather to celebrate the murder of 3 Jewish boys at Stonehenge
See how easy it is to manipulate the truth ?
Weatherman2020
Diamond Member
Typical Islamo lover, no link to his photos. Liar, liar pants on fire.....
And you link proves none of the above does it, as they are the words of another person. This is where we differ as you will believe everything that is bad about Israel, even after it has been proven false. I will check the evidence and make no claims until the evidence is all in.
In this case I note you forget to mention that the group was from Sderot that has faced the brunt of Palestinian terrorism over the years, so it is only to be expected they want to see justice done. Looking at the pictures I see less than 40 people sitting around looking to the distance.
Most as in this one are sombre and quiet
Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza
They look like they're having a good time to me.
Weatherman2020
Diamond Member
We can go all day at this, it will be fun.
- Thread starter
- #96
I didn't say you were or that anyone did - I was using it as an example to show that the right to defend isn't unlimited, ok? In fact, I specifically stated that. Can we agree on that?
What? No one is judging or criticizing Israel for things she has not done. REREAD WHAT I WROTE.
Yes, I posted that poll, again for a reason. There are those claiming that there is overwhelming support among Palestinians for knife attacks on civilians. What the poll shows is no, there isn't. There is a substantial divide, particularly between WB and Gaza which really should be viewed as seperate entities.
Take your statement: Are we to judge and criticize Israel's citizens for things they do not, in fact, believe
and apply it to the Palestinians.
And I call bullshit on your claims.
You've argued that in order to be internally consistent, you need to apply the same standards to both sides, but do you?
I agree with the culture argument, and the discussion on the right and wrong of expelling settlers in a future Palestinian state, but you dropped the ball there when it came to the Palestinians.
You ague that the settlers should not be lumped into one label, that they are in reality a fairly diverse group (and, in looking up articles, I agreed with that point) - but over and over you refuse to apply that to the Palestinians.
You argue that there is no discrimination in Israel - when I point it out with facts and sources, you run around Robin Hood's barn to try and insist that it's justified by adding special conditions for Israel, that the Beduoin citizens are "special cases". WHY? You then go on to make a dishonest claim that the argument I made was that Israel should supply infrastructure and funding etc to illegal non-citizen settlements when I was specifically talking about Arab Israeli CITIZENS. You seem to have your own pathological need here to defend against any criticism of Israel no matter what it is. Why is Israel so special it can not be criticized without name calling and slurs against those who do? It is no different than any other country. There is plenty of criticism of Palestinians and it's justified, so why is Israel on a pedestal here that we can not even talk about inequities and injustices?
I make a real effort to supply sources to back my position with facts, as I see them. You may not agree, you may have disagreements with my sources - but I look for them and I post them and I post far more sources than you do. I take your questions seriously and I try to thoughtfully answer them.
Yes, it is, if that is truly what it is.
Have you ever questioned the popular pro-Israeli narratives?
I didn't until I started reading about Palestinian textbooks. After years of hearing that they are full of hate and incitement of violence, and assuming that was accurate, several studies showed that no, it wasn't really. They showed that Palestinian textbooks and Israeli textbooks were pretty similar in how the portrayed "the other", the conflict, and their own historical narratives to the exclusion of the other. It showed that books were more extreme among the more religious schools in Israel and Palestine.
So what is the truth? And why should it not be questioned?
We are allowed to question pro-Palestinian claims without our motives being called into question. Why is it different with Israel?
I do not believe Israel, targets civilians, though I do think individual soldiers might do so (as in any army and conflict where "the other" is dehumanized, which is almost all conflicts). I think Israel makes a major effort to avoid doing so in a complicated situation like urban Gaza. But does that mean I should not call into question the use of white phosphorous in Operation Cast Lead?
How false is it? Israel is a diverse nation when it comes to opinions. I agree that much of the Israeli culture abhors senseless killing and that is reflected in public opinion polls and serious cultural questioning. But there is a significant minority that doesn't consider Arab citizens to be people. There was an incident several years ago when an Arab Israeli or Palestinian youth was beaten severely, and politicians were questioning what was going on in their culture. Now granted - I have not heard of Palestinians soul-searching their own culture in this manner, so I should look for that, perhaps they do - but I give kudos to Israel for soul searching when these things happen.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/w...d-in-attack-on-palestinians-in-jerusalem.html
JERUSALEM — Seven Israeli teenagers were in custody on Monday, accused of what a police official and several witnesses described as an attempted lynching of several Palestinian youths, laying bare the undercurrent of tension in this ethnically mixed but politically divided city. A 15-year-old suspect standing outside court said, “For my part he can die, he’s an Arab.”
The police said that scores of Jewish youths were involved in the attack late Thursday in West Jerusalem’s Zion Square, leaving one 17-year-old unconscious and hospitalized. Hundreds of bystanders watched the mob beating, the police said — and no one intervened.
Two of the suspects were girls, the youngest 13, adding to the soul-searching and acknowledgment that the poisoned political environment around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has affected the moral compass of youths growing up within it.
“If it was up to me, I’d have murdered him,” the 15-year-old suspect told reporters outside court on Monday. “He cursed my mother.” The young man who was beaten unconscious, Jamal Julani, remained in the hospital.
The mob beating came on the same day that a Palestinian taxi on the West Bank was firebombed, apparently by Jewish extremists, though there have been no arrests. The two episodes, along with a new report by the United States State Department labeling attacks by Jews on Palestinians as terrorism, have opened a stark national conversation about racism, violence, and how Israeli society could have come to this point.
“There appears to be a worryingly high level of tolerance — whether explicit or implicit — for such despicable acts of violence,” The Jerusalem Post editorialized on Monday. “A clear distinction must be made between legitimate acts of self-defense aimed at protecting Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, and pointless, immoral acts of violence.”
In the popular Yediot Aharonot newspaper, a commentator asked of the 13-year-old suspect, “Where on earth does a bar-mitzvah-age child find so much evil in himself?” The article said parents should be held responsible.
But on Channel 1 news Monday night, Nimrod Aloni, the head of the Institute for Educational Thought at a Tel Aviv teachers college, said, “this cannot just be an expression of something he has heard at home.”
The police said that scores of Jewish youths were involved in the attack late Thursday in West Jerusalem’s Zion Square, leaving one 17-year-old unconscious and hospitalized. Hundreds of bystanders watched the mob beating, the police said — and no one intervened.
Two of the suspects were girls, the youngest 13, adding to the soul-searching and acknowledgment that the poisoned political environment around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has affected the moral compass of youths growing up within it.
“If it was up to me, I’d have murdered him,” the 15-year-old suspect told reporters outside court on Monday. “He cursed my mother.” The young man who was beaten unconscious, Jamal Julani, remained in the hospital.
The mob beating came on the same day that a Palestinian taxi on the West Bank was firebombed, apparently by Jewish extremists, though there have been no arrests. The two episodes, along with a new report by the United States State Department labeling attacks by Jews on Palestinians as terrorism, have opened a stark national conversation about racism, violence, and how Israeli society could have come to this point.
“There appears to be a worryingly high level of tolerance — whether explicit or implicit — for such despicable acts of violence,” The Jerusalem Post editorialized on Monday. “A clear distinction must be made between legitimate acts of self-defense aimed at protecting Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, and pointless, immoral acts of violence.”
In the popular Yediot Aharonot newspaper, a commentator asked of the 13-year-old suspect, “Where on earth does a bar-mitzvah-age child find so much evil in himself?” The article said parents should be held responsible.
But on Channel 1 news Monday night, Nimrod Aloni, the head of the Institute for Educational Thought at a Tel Aviv teachers college, said, “this cannot just be an expression of something he has heard at home.”
I don't see a "vast moral difference" because you are making false comparisons. What is the difference between wanting your children, and your nation, and your culture to be protected and safe and defended and wanting your children to HAVE a nation, a culture, and safety?
What is the difference between living with the constant threat of rockets and alarms and bomb shelters and living with the constant threat of seeing relatives shot, arrested without charges, check point inspections, closed roads, having your home demolished or your city bombed? Both must be hugely stressful to civilians whether or not you agree with the reasons those conditions exist.
And can you apply that bolded statement to Palestinians?
How can you separate the two, when you are having a party and watching it? You do not find that in the least grotesque?
Is there any difference then, between celebrating the bombing of Gaza and celebrating this Female IDF Soldier Wounded in Palestinian Stabbing Attack in West Bank
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #97
Typical Islamo lover, no link to his photos. Liar, liar pants on fire.....
And you link proves none of the above does it, as they are the words of another person. This is where we differ as you will believe everything that is bad about Israel, even after it has been proven false. I will check the evidence and make no claims until the evidence is all in.
In this case I note you forget to mention that the group was from Sderot that has faced the brunt of Palestinian terrorism over the years, so it is only to be expected they want to see justice done. Looking at the pictures I see less than 40 people sitting around looking to the distance.
Most as in this one are sombre and quiet
Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza
They look like they're having a good time to me.
If you think they are false then prove it. Otherwise you have no claim.
- Thread starter
- #98
And you link proves none of the above does it, as they are the words of another person. This is where we differ as you will believe everything that is bad about Israel, even after it has been proven false. I will check the evidence and make no claims until the evidence is all in.
In this case I note you forget to mention that the group was from Sderot that has faced the brunt of Palestinian terrorism over the years, so it is only to be expected they want to see justice done. Looking at the pictures I see less than 40 people sitting around looking to the distance.
Most as in this one are sombre and quiet
Israelis gather on hillsides to watch and cheer as military drops bombs on Gaza
They look like they're having a good time to me.
You know your second picture down, what would you say if I told you it was a fake. You see the young man in the white shirt and black trousers, well he is a member of the British monarchy. Next to him as a British actor and lastly is another British celebrity. The lines for that part of the picture are blurred and out of focus, as if they have been altered at the pixel level.
On top of this you are adding 2 and 2 and being told the answer is 5 because this is what you want to see. The dialogue does not match the action
Prove it.
- Thread starter
- #99
It's not my job to prove YOUR claims.
- Thread starter
- #100
Of course. I don't disagree nor have I said the police shouldn't do whatever is necessary to stop the attacker.
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