Most Conservatives Still Believe The Civil War Wasn't Over Slavery

[kaz]

.
It was not at the forefront, it was an issue which leads to other issues. It also wasn't the only problem cited. You only view it as being at the forefront because you see race in everything.

Tell that to Louisiana:
As a separate republic, Louisiana remembers too well the whisperings of European diplomacy for the abolition of slavery in the times of annexation not to be apprehensive of bolder demonstrations from the same quarter and the North in this country. The people of the slave holding States are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery.

It's like they saw race in everything -- Slavery was such a sub-issue -- why would they even include in such a forefront way?? Hmmmm

The main reason the government is able to rule over the states today is because nobody stopped Lincoln, or Woodrow Wilson, or FDR when the opportunity was there. These are not petty issues, the states have not recovered, and likely never will.

So in other words....too bad the South lost??

Sure, slaves would have been further subjected to countless decades of more murder, rape, torture and oppression -- but hey, at least we taught those Feds a lesson.

You actually don't grasp that only one side can/t have a war, do you? If the South was about slavery, it's still not the cause of the war unless the north is too and they weren't. The North did not invade to end slavery. They just didn't

 

[kaz]

The war wasn't about slavery. It was about secession.

Slavery was a part of the war, but not the bottom line.

Slavery was the ONLY issue. Period.

You all have been parroting a host of bullshit memes. I have provided solid evidence destroying those memes.

These are the memes of sore losers whose pride can't accept the facts, and who harbor secret desires to return to those days. "Make America Great Again".

Thats bullshit. For the south it was about economics. No one sat there and said they wanted slaves. They wanted agriculture. Slaves were a tool not an end for them.

And slavery had nothing to do with the north going to war at all

LoL, yea, it was strictly about slavery, more clearly, negro chattel slavery. Which is why so many historical documents from the confederacy mentioned negro slavery, their opposition to freeing them and giving them equal rights, and their willingness to fight the union over it.

History will not be changed because your ideology is found to be ******* racist.

So you think some dumb negro can't make it on their own without a lower bar and a handout and I don't. The racist is clear, Grand Dragon. Darkies are to remain on the Democrat plantation or you'll hung them down and destroy them

What happened, they put too much starch on your Klan suit?

The war wasn't about slavery. It was about secession.

Slavery was a part of the war, but not the bottom line.

Slavery was the ONLY issue. Period.

You all have been parroting a host of bullshit memes. I have provided solid evidence destroying those memes.

These are the memes of sore losers whose pride can't accept the facts, and who harbor secret desires to return to those days. "Make America Great Again".

Thats bullshit. For the south it was about economics. No one sat there and said they wanted slaves. They wanted agriculture. Slaves were a tool not an end for them.

And slavery had nothing to do with the north going to war at all

LoL, yea, it was strictly about slavery, more clearly, negro chattel slavery. Which is why so many historical documents from the confederacy mentioned negro slavery, their opposition to freeing them and giving them equal rights, and their willingness to fight the union over it.

History will not be changed because your ideology is found to be ******* racist.

So you think some dumb negro can't make it on their own without a lower bar and a handout and I don't. The racist is clear, Grand Dragon. Darkies are to remain on the Democrat plantation or you'll hung them down and destroy them

What happened, they put too much starch on your Klan suit?

You think blacks can't be treated like a white guy, I do. The racist is clear, Archie Bunker

 

[Pumpkin Row]

No, it was A issue, just because you view the expansion of government, tariffs on your main resource, and the erosion of state rights, as petty issues, it does not make them so, and as a matter of fact, the South's economy happens to have been a VERY large issue, right up next to the erosion of their rights, and those two together formed the primary issue, Slavery was a SUB-issue.t.

Not according to the Confederate states.

Hardly a mention about tariffs.

And the South's economy? That was largely built around slavery- and the single largest capital in the South- so when you say that the South was trying to protect their economy- you are saying that the South was trying to protect their right to own human property to advance their economy.

The Tariff of Abominations had been in place for decades, mentioning it at the point would have been a waste of time, and even if they had cited it as a reason, it wouldn't have mattered due to the fact that they were already opting out. They cited the most recent slight against them, and then chose to opt out..

Wow- so you really believe that the reason the South seceded- is just what you imagine it to be- rather than the actual words in which they declared the reasons that they seceded.

I am guessing you voted for Trump.

I added citations and quotes, as well as a link to the actual document text, which you ignored, because I had proven you wrong. Since you neglected to counter any of my points and citations, I'll accept your admission of defeat.

You provided a citation- and I am glad to quote from it
The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States
And note it doesn't mention tariffs that I can find- but every one of them references slavery at least once- most multiple times.

Georgia:

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

Mississipi
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. T

South Carolina
In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

Texas:
Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confedera

Virginia

and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

They mention slavery among the other reasons. As I specified, Georgia cites the government's promotion of monopolies and regulation of the south, Texas and South Carolina mention violations of the US Constitution, both things affecting the states and damaging their economies. The government was mentioned by Georgia to be selling out to lobbyists.

I also already pointed out that slavery was mentioned as a problem which affected the south's economy, based on agriculture. I know you read these things as you were searching for the word "slavery" in the documents, which means you already noticed these things, and are fully aware that the south was only attempting to opt out of the government's tyranny. You're only neglecting to mention these things, and outright ignoring them, because it makes it clear that it was an economic problem, not a slavery problem.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

For the South it was about 'economics'- the economics of slavery.

Most of the South's capital was invested in slaves. Most fo their production was produced with slaves.

AND- slaves themselves were a commodity to them- a commodity that they 'farmed' just as much as any proud owner of a herd of cattle does- and that was what they were to the South- a very valuable herd of humans.

Slavery is not why the north fought. But slavery is why the South tried to secede- and they fought do defend their secession attempt.

I would only disagree with the bold part. What they were to white people (North and South). That seems to be the hang up in these discussions many times. All white people, North and South, (with the exception of very few) viewed blacks as lesser humans.

Otherwise, I don't disagree.

Yet those northern whites defended their country against racist terrorists, and kicked their inbred ass so hard that their descendents are now bitching from the safety of a keyboard about things “should” be, and reminiscing about the 50’s. They even elected a white nationalist as POTUS thinking their country will be white again.... LoL.

The supermajority of those northern whites were also racist, and plenty were terrorists about it.

Sure, hang your hat on that argument like it will cover the racist conservative ideology. You see, people are free to be as racist as they want to be, but when racists make policies to oppress blacks, that’s is where the true fucked up mentality comes into play. The south wanted to keep chattel slavery, implemented Jim Crow, implemented redlining policies, support the basdardization of the police being used as negro judge, jury, and executioners, while the north was always looked to be the place where the negro had to flee in order to escape people like those of you defending the confederacy.

Your whole argument here is dependent on you trying to denigrate the north because your southern ideology has been shown to be not only racist, but intellectually retarded.

My southern ideology? I was born in the north and still live here. I’ve said multiple times I couldn’t care less about the Confederacy or south rising again. Perhaps you should be more careful in putting words in people’s mouth.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Slavery wasn't at the forefront until Lincoln attempted to free Southern Slaves, specifically, as a war measure to further cripple the southern forces. The secession was because of several things, one of the biggest being John Adam's Tariff of Abominations, which caused the South's economy to decline further. Other reasons include an expanding government, as the south believed, rightfully, that Federal Law shouldn't trump State Laws, as the States were originally intended to legislate for themselves, and to be able to opt out of the Federal Government's Nation-wide laws. Lincoln's wanting to free the slaves fell under this category because it's an example of the government eroding state rights through its expanding power.

So, in other words, it had been coming for quite some time, and was about waning agriculture vs expanding industry, and the rapidly expanding government becoming more powerful than the states, due to Presidents, like Lincoln, stomping all over State rights. The US will likely never recover from Presidents like Woodrow Wilson, FDR, and Lincoln. The South just wanted to opt out.

I don't know why you guys want it to be about slaves, the south was leftist anyway, seems like you're attempting to further ruin your own image.

Slavery was at the forefront when southern states used it as a justification for secession

It was not at the forefront, it was an issue which leads to other issues. It also wasn't the only problem cited. You only view it as being at the forefront because you see race in everything.

Which is probably why it was cited among the reasons that the leftists left the union and formed the Confederacy.

It was THE issue and the reason they wanted to secede before Lincoln took office

They may have had some petty other grievances ......none of which warranted an immediate secession

No, it was A issue, just because you view the expansion of government, tariffs on your main resource, and the erosion of state rights, as petty issues, it does not make them so, and as a matter of fact, the South's economy happens to have been a VERY large issue, right up next to the erosion of their rights, and those two together formed the primary issue, Slavery was a SUB-issue. The main reason the government is able to rule over the states today is because nobody stopped Lincoln, or Woodrow Wilson, or FDR when the opportunity was there. These are not petty issues, the states have not recovered, and likely never will.

Your view of the government as an entity which should be allowed to handle any and all issues is short-sighted, even as the main problem with this view is apparent and staring you right in the face this very moment.

Tariffs could have been resolved in Congress
Slavery was why they secededed upon Lincoln’s election

A large FEDERAL Government led us to becoming the predominant global power we are

I notice you're neglecting to answer each of my points, which is fine, I realize it's your only answer, since your position isn't based on logic.

The tariffs had been in place for decades, and could not be resolved, since the North was being favored by the government, the said government was intentionally bringing down the south. They were subsidizing northern industry in order to create monopolies for special interests. If the government intended to operate as intended, it wouldn't have involved itself in the economy in the first place.

The government is preventing the US from being the superpower it could be, and part of that is the regulations on our businesses, which promotes monopolies, and prevents competition from being created, making out economy weaker, which causes our technology, weapons or otherwise, from developing as quickly, while simultaneously funding foreign governments.

I appreciate that you have so much faith in Trump, though, shown by how much power you support the government wielding.

 

[ATL]

For the South it was about 'economics'- the economics of slavery.

Most of the South's capital was invested in slaves. Most fo their production was produced with slaves.

AND- slaves themselves were a commodity to them- a commodity that they 'farmed' just as much as any proud owner of a herd of cattle does- and that was what they were to the South- a very valuable herd of humans.

Slavery is not why the north fought. But slavery is why the South tried to secede- and they fought do defend their secession attempt.

I would only disagree with the bold part. What they were to white people (North and South). That seems to be the hang up in these discussions many times. All white people, North and South, (with the exception of very few) viewed blacks as lesser humans.

Otherwise, I don't disagree.

Yet those northern whites defended their country against racist terrorists, and kicked their inbred ass so hard that their descendents are now bitching from the safety of a keyboard about things “should” be, and reminiscing about the 50’s. They even elected a white nationalist as POTUS thinking their country will be white again.... LoL.

The supermajority of those northern whites were also racist, and plenty were terrorists about it.

Sure, hang your hat on that argument like it will cover the racist conservative ideology. You see, people are free to be as racist as they want to be, but when racists make policies to oppress blacks, that’s is where the true fucked up mentality comes into play. The south wanted to keep chattel slavery, implemented Jim Crow, implemented redlining policies, support the basdardization of the police being used as negro judge, jury, and executioners, while the north was always looked to be the place where the negro had to flee in order to escape people like those of you defending the confederacy.

Your whole argument here is dependent on you trying to denigrate the north because your southern ideology has been shown to be not only racist, but intellectually retarded.

My southern ideology? I was born in the north and still live here. I’ve said multiple times I couldn’t care less about the Confederacy or south rising again. Perhaps you should be more careful in putting words in people’s mouth.

Just because you live or grew in the north, doesn’t mean you cannot be a confederacy sympathizer. I know people that live in Illinois that loves the confederacy.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Just because you live or grew in the north, doesn’t mean you cannot be a confederacy sympathizer. I know people that live in Illinois that loves the confederacy.

So, I am Southern by many generations. None of my ancestors owned slaves. I hate slavery. I hate what the confederacy did to my great, great, great, grandfather.

Whites in the North and the South universally believed themselves to be superior to all other races. They were all racist motherfuckers.

It is a fact that the Civil War did not happen because slavery existed. It happened because Lincoln and the remaining Union states did not want the Southern states to leave the Union.

Now. Does any of the above make me racist?

 

[ATL]

The war wasn't about slavery. It was about secession.

Slavery was a part of the war, but not the bottom line.

Slavery was the ONLY issue. Period.

You all have been parroting a host of bullshit memes. I have provided solid evidence destroying those memes.

These are the memes of sore losers whose pride can't accept the facts, and who harbor secret desires to return to those days. "Make America Great Again".

Thats bullshit. For the south it was about economics. No one sat there and said they wanted slaves. They wanted agriculture. Slaves were a tool not an end for them.

And slavery had nothing to do with the north going to war at all

LoL, yea, it was strictly about slavery, more clearly, negro chattel slavery. Which is why so many historical documents from the confederacy mentioned negro slavery, their opposition to freeing them and giving them equal rights, and their willingness to fight the union over it.

History will not be changed because your ideology is found to be ******* racist.

So you think some dumb negro can't make it on their own without a lower bar and a handout and I don't. The racist is clear, Grand Dragon. Darkies are to remain on the Democrat plantation or you'll hung them down and destroy them

If that dumb negro was compared to you, then sure I’d agree he would be a much higher intelligent being.

 

[ATL]

Just because you live or grew in the north, doesn’t mean you cannot be a confederacy sympathizer. I know people that live in Illinois that loves the confederacy.

So, I am Southern by many generations. None of my ancestors owned slaves. I hate slavery. I hate what the confederacy did to my great, great, great, grandfather.

Whites in the North and the South universally believed themselves to be superior to all other races. They were all racist motherfuckers.

It is a fact that the Civil War did not happen because slavery existed. It happened because Lincoln and the remaining Union states did not want the Southern states to leave the Union.

Now. Does any of the above make me racist?

It makes you ignorant of history.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I would only disagree with the bold part. What they were to white people (North and South). That seems to be the hang up in these discussions many times. All white people, North and South, (with the exception of very few) viewed blacks as lesser humans.

Otherwise, I don't disagree.

Yet those northern whites defended their country against racist terrorists, and kicked their inbred ass so hard that their descendents are now bitching from the safety of a keyboard about things “should” be, and reminiscing about the 50’s. They even elected a white nationalist as POTUS thinking their country will be white again.... LoL.

The supermajority of those northern whites were also racist, and plenty were terrorists about it.

Sure, hang your hat on that argument like it will cover the racist conservative ideology. You see, people are free to be as racist as they want to be, but when racists make policies to oppress blacks, that’s is where the true fucked up mentality comes into play. The south wanted to keep chattel slavery, implemented Jim Crow, implemented redlining policies, support the basdardization of the police being used as negro judge, jury, and executioners, while the north was always looked to be the place where the negro had to flee in order to escape people like those of you defending the confederacy.

Your whole argument here is dependent on you trying to denigrate the north because your southern ideology has been shown to be not only racist, but intellectually retarded.

My southern ideology? I was born in the north and still live here. I’ve said multiple times I couldn’t care less about the Confederacy or south rising again. Perhaps you should be more careful in putting words in people’s mouth.

Just because you live or grew in the north, doesn’t mean you cannot be a confederacy sympathizer. I know people that live in Illinois that loves the confederacy.

Literally just told you I’m not and there’s no greater on the subject of my views than me.

 

[Doc1]

Just because you live or grew in the north, doesn’t mean you cannot be a confederacy sympathizer. I know people that live in Illinois that loves the confederacy.

So, I am Southern by many generations. None of my ancestors owned slaves. I hate slavery. I hate what the confederacy did to my great, great, great, grandfather.

Whites in the North and the South universally believed themselves to be superior to all other races. They were all racist motherfuckers.

It is a fact that the Civil War did not happen because slavery existed. It happened because Lincoln and the remaining Union states did not want the Southern states to leave the Union.

Now. Does any of the above make me racist?

It makes you ignorant of history.

You po black chile, ****** been mean to you?

 

[ATL]

Yet those northern whites defended their country against racist terrorists, and kicked their inbred ass so hard that their descendents are now bitching from the safety of a keyboard about things “should” be, and reminiscing about the 50’s. They even elected a white nationalist as POTUS thinking their country will be white again.... LoL.

The supermajority of those northern whites were also racist, and plenty were terrorists about it.

Sure, hang your hat on that argument like it will cover the racist conservative ideology. You see, people are free to be as racist as they want to be, but when racists make policies to oppress blacks, that’s is where the true fucked up mentality comes into play. The south wanted to keep chattel slavery, implemented Jim Crow, implemented redlining policies, support the basdardization of the police being used as negro judge, jury, and executioners, while the north was always looked to be the place where the negro had to flee in order to escape people like those of you defending the confederacy.

Your whole argument here is dependent on you trying to denigrate the north because your southern ideology has been shown to be not only racist, but intellectually retarded.

My southern ideology? I was born in the north and still live here. I’ve said multiple times I couldn’t care less about the Confederacy or south rising again. Perhaps you should be more careful in putting words in people’s mouth.

Just because you live or grew in the north, doesn’t mean you cannot be a confederacy sympathizer. I know people that live in Illinois that loves the confederacy.

Literally just told you I’m not and there’s no greater on the subject of my views than me.

Sure seems strange to spend so much effort defending it then....if it walks like a duck....

 

[ATL]

Just because you live or grew in the north, doesn’t mean you cannot be a confederacy sympathizer. I know people that live in Illinois that loves the confederacy.

So, I am Southern by many generations. None of my ancestors owned slaves. I hate slavery. I hate what the confederacy did to my great, great, great, grandfather.

Whites in the North and the South universally believed themselves to be superior to all other races. They were all racist motherfuckers.

It is a fact that the Civil War did not happen because slavery existed. It happened because Lincoln and the remaining Union states did not want the Southern states to leave the Union.

Now. Does any of the above make me racist?

It makes you ignorant of history.

You po black chile, ****** been mean to you?

Your horse broke down on the way to a cross burning or something?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

It makes you ignorant of history.

What did I get wrong?

 

[Doc1]

Just because you live or grew in the north, doesn’t mean you cannot be a confederacy sympathizer. I know people that live in Illinois that loves the confederacy.

So, I am Southern by many generations. None of my ancestors owned slaves. I hate slavery. I hate what the confederacy did to my great, great, great, grandfather.

Whites in the North and the South universally believed themselves to be superior to all other races. They were all racist motherfuckers.

It is a fact that the Civil War did not happen because slavery existed. It happened because Lincoln and the remaining Union states did not want the Southern states to leave the Union.

Now. Does any of the above make me racist?

It makes you ignorant of history.

You po black chile, ****** been mean to you?

Your horse broke down on the way to a cross burning or something?

I just cut a watermelon, c'mon over. Thank me, my ancestors helped free you.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Sure seems strange to spend so much effort defending it then....if it walks like a duck....

Is that how you justify calling all Southerners ignorant racists?

 

[ATL]

Just because you live or grew in the north, doesn’t mean you cannot be a confederacy sympathizer. I know people that live in Illinois that loves the confederacy.

So, I am Southern by many generations. None of my ancestors owned slaves. I hate slavery. I hate what the confederacy did to my great, great, great, grandfather.

Whites in the North and the South universally believed themselves to be superior to all other races. They were all racist motherfuckers.

It is a fact that the Civil War did not happen because slavery existed. It happened because Lincoln and the remaining Union states did not want the Southern states to leave the Union.

Now. Does any of the above make me racist?

It makes you ignorant of history.

You po black chile, ****** been mean to you?

Your horse broke down on the way to a cross burning or something?

I just cut a watermelon, c'mon over. Thank me, my ancestors helped free you.

No thanks, Trump also said he didn’t pay off a porn star, so just like him, you can’t be trusted.

Is it hard to chew with one tooth?

 

[ATL]

It makes you ignorant of history.

What did I get wrong?

Let’s see, the reasons for the war....everything.

 

[ATL]

Sure seems strange to spend so much effort defending it then....if it walks like a duck....

Is that how you justify calling all Southerners ignorant racists?

No, I justify it by quoting their words. It’s easy to do because they think because they hide behind a keyboard, their true feelings can come out.

 

[gipper]

Slavery was at the forefront when southern states used it as a justification for secession

No argument there.

Preserving the Union was at the forefront when Lincoln went to war.

If you could put your emotions aside, you would be able to both be glad that the war ended slavery and also acknowledge that the Union was loaded with indifferent racist motherfuckers motivated by power and commerce, rather than benevolence and equality.

Those "indifferent racist motherfuckers" dont hold a candle to the southern conservative racist motherfuckers that tried, and continue to try to keep the mantra that "white is right". So save the whataboutism for those that are ignorant of history, or in other words....Trump supporters.

Kill...kill....kill....SCREAMS the ignorant Statist.