Mosque On Ground Zero. An Act Of Aggression: Yea Or Nay?

[bodecea]

Everybody is so wrapped up in the "sensitivity" issue as it relates to "the Muslim community has the constitutional right to build a Mosque anywhere they want" yet there seems to be little concern that the Muslim community is not showing sensitivity to their decision to build a Mosque where they opted to build the Mosque.

We as Americans are, on the most part, brought up to respect the wishes of others and do our best to make decisions that do not have an adverse affect on others.

In this new age, we have many on the left and even in the middle saying "sure that business man broke no laws, but he made decisions that cost people their livlihood and he should be punished for it"...

Yet nowhere am I seeing anyone on the left nor many in the middles saying "sure the law allows them to buld the Mosque there, but they should be spoken to about the fact that they have no concern about how their decision is further hurting those that are hurting already....."

Afterall, they can build anywhere. Those that died there, were not given a choice of where to die.

Mine is not a concern of whether or not they have the right to build there. They do. Mine is a concern as to why they are not showing sensitivity to their fellow Americans....and why other Americans dont expect them to, but expect Americans in business to show more sensitivity.

THAT to me is hypocrisy to the nth degree.

Ok, let me ask you...where should they build their center? What is the appropriate distance away from Ground Zero?

 

[Jarhead]

Everybody is so wrapped up in the "sensitivity" issue as it relates to "the Muslim community has the constitutional right to build a Mosque anywhere they want" yet there seems to be little concern that the Muslim community is not showing sensitivity to their decision to build a Mosque where they opted to build the Mosque.

We as Americans are, on the most part, brought up to respect the wishes of others and do our best to make decisions that do not have an adverse affect on others.

In this new age, we have many on the left and even in the middle saying "sure that business man broke no laws, but he made decisions that cost people their livlihood and he should be punished for it"...

Yet nowhere am I seeing anyone on the left nor many in the middles saying "sure the law allows them to buld the Mosque there, but they should be spoken to about the fact that they have no concern about how their decision is further hurting those that are hurting already....."

Afterall, they can build anywhere. Those that died there, were not given a choice of where to die.

Mine is not a concern of whether or not they have the right to build there. They do. Mine is a concern as to why they are not showing sensitivity to their fellow Americans....and why other Americans dont expect them to, but expect Americans in business to show more sensitivity.

THAT to me is hypocrisy to the nth degree.

Ok, let me ask you...where should they build their center? What is the appropriate distance away from Ground Zero?

I do not have an answer. But being a New Yorker, I can assure you...there are plenty of valid sites that would not be insensitive to those that are truly hurting.

But I know one thing for sure...The supporters oif this Mosque are Americans with no regard to sensitivity to the mourning of others and as opposed to applauding their right to build there, which they most certainly do have the right to build there....we should all be letting them know that it is not the American way to make decisions without concern of how it may affect other people.

We have our politicians and many of our citizens out there saying the exact same thing to Americans that are business owners.....but those same politicians and people are not willing to say it to those that wish to build the Mosque where they are building it.

Why is that?

 

[Jarhead]

Everybody is so wrapped up in the "sensitivity" issue as it relates to "the Muslim community has the constitutional right to build a Mosque anywhere they want" yet there seems to be little concern that the Muslim community is not showing sensitivity to their decision to build a Mosque where they opted to build the Mosque.

We as Americans are, on the most part, brought up to respect the wishes of others and do our best to make decisions that do not have an adverse affect on others.

In this new age, we have many on the left and even in the middle saying "sure that business man broke no laws, but he made decisions that cost people their livlihood and he should be punished for it"...

Yet nowhere am I seeing anyone on the left nor many in the middles saying "sure the law allows them to buld the Mosque there, but they should be spoken to about the fact that they have no concern about how their decision is further hurting those that are hurting already....."

Afterall, they can build anywhere. Those that died there, were not given a choice of where to die.

Mine is not a concern of whether or not they have the right to build there. They do. Mine is a concern as to why they are not showing sensitivity to their fellow Americans....and why other Americans dont expect them to, but expect Americans in business to show more sensitivity.

THAT to me is hypocrisy to the nth degree.

Sad that no one on the left wnats to touch this. It is a valid argument and warrants comments.

Why is a businessman evil and worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people...

But....

A religious figure is not worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people.....

Anyone?

 

[G.T.]

My answer to that, Jarhead, is the same as it's been throughout the thread.

It's all a matter of perspective.

From my perspective, it's not being insensitive because they've got nothing at all to do with 9/11.

The only way I can fathom it being insensitive, is to someone who considers them somehow a part of that dark time in our history.

We cannot start attaching every Muslim to 9/11. That's insensitive, as well.

 

[ConHog]

nice diversion

tit for tat. Just thought i'd divert your diversion from Boe's diversion.

can't divert from that which doesn't exist.

i hear boys' life is looking for posters.

WTF is boy's life and how does it even pertain?

 

[goldcatt]

Everybody is so wrapped up in the "sensitivity" issue as it relates to "the Muslim community has the constitutional right to build a Mosque anywhere they want" yet there seems to be little concern that the Muslim community is not showing sensitivity to their decision to build a Mosque where they opted to build the Mosque.

We as Americans are, on the most part, brought up to respect the wishes of others and do our best to make decisions that do not have an adverse affect on others.

In this new age, we have many on the left and even in the middle saying "sure that business man broke no laws, but he made decisions that cost people their livlihood and he should be punished for it"...

Yet nowhere am I seeing anyone on the left nor many in the middles saying "sure the law allows them to buld the Mosque there, but they should be spoken to about the fact that they have no concern about how their decision is further hurting those that are hurting already....."

Afterall, they can build anywhere. Those that died there, were not given a choice of where to die.

Mine is not a concern of whether or not they have the right to build there. They do. Mine is a concern as to why they are not showing sensitivity to their fellow Americans....and why other Americans dont expect them to, but expect Americans in business to show more sensitivity.

THAT to me is hypocrisy to the nth degree.

Sad that no one on the left wnats to touch this. It is a valid argument and warrants comments.

Why is a businessman evil and worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people...

But....

A religious figure is not worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people.....

Anyone?

I'll bite.

I don't like getting involved in these arguments usually, 9/11 is still just a little too personal to me. But you do have a point. Yes, it's insensitive to some of those who are still hurting. I can see that. But not all who grieve feel the same way, or handle it the same way, or feel the healing process should take the same path. Look at the arguments over what should be built on Ground Zero itself for proof of that. Or even some of the arguments that have taken place on this board from time to time.

Personally, I feel for those who would see this as a constant reminder or an act of aggression. But I don't see it that way.

IMO, we were attacked by terrorists. What is the goal of the terrorist? To make us fear. So is the proper way to recover and move on to give them what they want and be afraid? They want to make us hate. So should we allow ourselves to be manipulated into hating? They want us to become less tolerant. So should we show intolerance? They ultimately want us to abandon the very freedoms they despise, which include our freedoms of speech, of assembly, of religion. Should we then do exactly what they wanted us to do and call it strength or victory?

Don't forget the dozens of Muslims who were also lost that day. Do they not also deserve our remembrance, or that of their community?

Those who are troubled by this can speak out, and are speaking out, and should continue to speak out. That's also what we stand for. But I simply don't see the big deal. Life goes on, and abandoning our principles is what would really weaken us. What's important is within, it has nothing to do with some building.

 

[ConHog]

My answer to that, Jarhead, is the same as it's been throughout the thread.

It's all a matter of perspective.

From my perspective, it's not being insensitive because they've got nothing at all to do with 9/11.

The only way I can fathom it being insensitive, is to someone who considers them somehow a part of that dark time in our history.

We cannot start attaching every Muslim to 9/11. That's insensitive, as well.

Your perrspective is shared by roughly 20% of Americans. So you're suggesting that the perspective of 1 should outweigh the perspective of 4?

 

[Shogun]

We as Americans are, on the most part, brought up to respect the wishes of others and do our best to make decisions that do not have an adverse affect on others.

what kind of cracked out appeal to emotion is this? Did Railroad tycoons give a **** about farmers when connecting East America to West America? **** no. Do conservatives give a **** about sensitivity when goose steeping tired rhetoric in the face of environmental concerns? **** no. Does Manifest Destiny sound like something hinged on mutual consideration? **** no.

...but all of a sudden "it's the american thing" to be sensitive.




what a load of shit.


sheesh... peddle your ironic guilt trip elsewhere.

 

[G.T.]

My answer to that, Jarhead, is the same as it's been throughout the thread.

It's all a matter of perspective.

From my perspective, it's not being insensitive because they've got nothing at all to do with 9/11.

The only way I can fathom it being insensitive, is to someone who considers them somehow a part of that dark time in our history.

We cannot start attaching every Muslim to 9/11. That's insensitive, as well.

Your perrspective is shared by roughly 20% of Americans. So you're suggesting that the perspective of 1 should outweigh the perspective of 4?

No, I'm just giving my opinion and suggesting nothing.

 

[Shogun]

Everybody is so wrapped up in the "sensitivity" issue as it relates to "the Muslim community has the constitutional right to build a Mosque anywhere they want" yet there seems to be little concern that the Muslim community is not showing sensitivity to their decision to build a Mosque where they opted to build the Mosque.

We as Americans are, on the most part, brought up to respect the wishes of others and do our best to make decisions that do not have an adverse affect on others.

In this new age, we have many on the left and even in the middle saying "sure that business man broke no laws, but he made decisions that cost people their livlihood and he should be punished for it"...

Yet nowhere am I seeing anyone on the left nor many in the middles saying "sure the law allows them to buld the Mosque there, but they should be spoken to about the fact that they have no concern about how their decision is further hurting those that are hurting already....."

Afterall, they can build anywhere. Those that died there, were not given a choice of where to die.

Mine is not a concern of whether or not they have the right to build there. They do. Mine is a concern as to why they are not showing sensitivity to their fellow Americans....and why other Americans dont expect them to, but expect Americans in business to show more sensitivity.

THAT to me is hypocrisy to the nth degree.

Sad that no one on the left wnats to touch this. It is a valid argument and warrants comments.

Why is a businessman evil and worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people...

But....

A religious figure is not worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people.....

Anyone?

capitalist businessmen do that shit all the time.. where the **** have YOU been? Does that ridicule STOP said businessman from such behaviors? Have you ever launched an appeal prohibit businessmen from their dastardly choices?

funny how selective your standards are.

 

[Shogun]

My answer to that, Jarhead, is the same as it's been throughout the thread.

It's all a matter of perspective.

From my perspective, it's not being insensitive because they've got nothing at all to do with 9/11.

The only way I can fathom it being insensitive, is to someone who considers them somehow a part of that dark time in our history.

We cannot start attaching every Muslim to 9/11. That's insensitive, as well.

Your perrspective is shared by roughly 20% of Americans. So you're suggesting that the perspective of 1 should outweigh the perspective of 4?

when the legality is not even remotely questioned, yes.

 

[bodecea]

Everybody is so wrapped up in the "sensitivity" issue as it relates to "the Muslim community has the constitutional right to build a Mosque anywhere they want" yet there seems to be little concern that the Muslim community is not showing sensitivity to their decision to build a Mosque where they opted to build the Mosque.

We as Americans are, on the most part, brought up to respect the wishes of others and do our best to make decisions that do not have an adverse affect on others.

In this new age, we have many on the left and even in the middle saying "sure that business man broke no laws, but he made decisions that cost people their livlihood and he should be punished for it"...

Yet nowhere am I seeing anyone on the left nor many in the middles saying "sure the law allows them to buld the Mosque there, but they should be spoken to about the fact that they have no concern about how their decision is further hurting those that are hurting already....."

Afterall, they can build anywhere. Those that died there, were not given a choice of where to die.

Mine is not a concern of whether or not they have the right to build there. They do. Mine is a concern as to why they are not showing sensitivity to their fellow Americans....and why other Americans dont expect them to, but expect Americans in business to show more sensitivity.

THAT to me is hypocrisy to the nth degree.

Ok, let me ask you...where should they build their center? What is the appropriate distance away from Ground Zero?

I do not have an answer. But being a New Yorker, I can assure you...there are plenty of valid sites that would not be insensitive to those that are truly hurting.

But I know one thing for sure...The supporters oif this Mosque are Americans with no regard to sensitivity to the mourning of others and as opposed to applauding their right to build there, which they most certainly do have the right to build there....we should all be letting them know that it is not the American way to make decisions without concern of how it may affect other people.

We have our politicians and many of our citizens out there saying the exact same thing to Americans that are business owners.....but those same politicians and people are not willing to say it to those that wish to build the Mosque where they are building it.

Why is that?

Examples as to what you are referring to, please.

 

[Jarhead]

Everybody is so wrapped up in the "sensitivity" issue as it relates to "the Muslim community has the constitutional right to build a Mosque anywhere they want" yet there seems to be little concern that the Muslim community is not showing sensitivity to their decision to build a Mosque where they opted to build the Mosque.

We as Americans are, on the most part, brought up to respect the wishes of others and do our best to make decisions that do not have an adverse affect on others.

In this new age, we have many on the left and even in the middle saying "sure that business man broke no laws, but he made decisions that cost people their livlihood and he should be punished for it"...

Yet nowhere am I seeing anyone on the left nor many in the middles saying "sure the law allows them to buld the Mosque there, but they should be spoken to about the fact that they have no concern about how their decision is further hurting those that are hurting already....."

Afterall, they can build anywhere. Those that died there, were not given a choice of where to die.

Mine is not a concern of whether or not they have the right to build there. They do. Mine is a concern as to why they are not showing sensitivity to their fellow Americans....and why other Americans dont expect them to, but expect Americans in business to show more sensitivity.

THAT to me is hypocrisy to the nth degree.

Sad that no one on the left wnats to touch this. It is a valid argument and warrants comments.

Why is a businessman evil and worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people...

But....

A religious figure is not worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people.....

Anyone?

I'll bite.

I don't like getting involved in these arguments usually, 9/11 is still just a little too personal to me. But you do have a point. Yes, it's insensitive to some of those who are still hurting. I can see that. But not all who grieve feel the same way, or handle it the same way, or feel the healing process should take the same path. Look at the arguments over what should be built on Ground Zero itself for proof of that. Or even some of the arguments that have taken place on this board from time to time.

Personally, I feel for those who would see this as a constant reminder or an act of aggression. But I don't see it that way.

IMO, we were attacked by terrorists. What is the goal of the terrorist? To make us fear. So is the proper way to recover and move on to give them what they want and be afraid? They want to make us hate. So should we allow ourselves to be manipulated into hating? They want us to become less tolerant. So should we show intolerance? They ultimately want us to abandon the very freedoms they despise, which include our freedoms of speech, of assembly, of religion. Should we then do exactly what they wanted us to do and call it strength or victory?

Don't forget the dozens of Muslims who were also lost that day. Do they not also deserve our remembrance, or that of their community?

Those who are troubled by this can speak out, and are speaking out, and should continue to speak out. That's also what we stand for. But I simply don't see the big deal. Life goes on, and abandoning our principles is what would really weaken us. What's important is within, it has nothing to do with some building.

I agree with alot...no....most of what you say.
However, I too had a part of 9-11 beyond just being an American. Yes, it was terrorists that did it, not Muslims as a whole. However, the terrorists used their warped interpretation of their religion to justufy their actions.

I do not mind them building there. Instead, I am more concerned why our politicians are not expressing more of a concern for their building there. Our politicians should be out there saying, "yes, you may if you wish, but we ask you to first consider how this may make others feel".....

Instead, our politicians are making this an ideological debate and ignoring basic human decency....and as I see how others debate this topic on this board, it appears poeople in general are making this a basic ideological debate without consdideration of basic human decency.

I swear this is true.....

I was talking with my neghbor about 15 years ago. My boss at the time was buying a new car and he offered to sell me his Mercedes for a steal....it was valued at over 25K used and he was selling it to me for 5K....well.....in exchange for a 5K bonus I was due.....

My neighbor proceeded to tell me how her uncle who she never met, was a vicxtim of the Holocost and she would never buy a German made "anything".

My attitude? The Germans of the 40's killed her uncle, not the Germans of today.

However, if a Mercedes reminded her of what happened to her Uncle, I found it insensitive to have it parked in a driveway right next door to her.

So I passed on the car. Stupid? Maybe. Being human and understanding? Certainly was worth it.

Understanding and respecting the phobias and worries of our fellow Americans is what I see America all about.

I am an early riser. I would love to powerwash my fence on a Sunday morning. No law stops me from doing it. But I dont. I respect my neighbors wishes to sleep later on Sunday.

 

[Jarhead]

Everybody is so wrapped up in the "sensitivity" issue as it relates to "the Muslim community has the constitutional right to build a Mosque anywhere they want" yet there seems to be little concern that the Muslim community is not showing sensitivity to their decision to build a Mosque where they opted to build the Mosque.

We as Americans are, on the most part, brought up to respect the wishes of others and do our best to make decisions that do not have an adverse affect on others.

In this new age, we have many on the left and even in the middle saying "sure that business man broke no laws, but he made decisions that cost people their livlihood and he should be punished for it"...

Yet nowhere am I seeing anyone on the left nor many in the middles saying "sure the law allows them to buld the Mosque there, but they should be spoken to about the fact that they have no concern about how their decision is further hurting those that are hurting already....."

Afterall, they can build anywhere. Those that died there, were not given a choice of where to die.

Mine is not a concern of whether or not they have the right to build there. They do. Mine is a concern as to why they are not showing sensitivity to their fellow Americans....and why other Americans dont expect them to, but expect Americans in business to show more sensitivity.

THAT to me is hypocrisy to the nth degree.

Sad that no one on the left wnats to touch this. It is a valid argument and warrants comments.

Why is a businessman evil and worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people...

But....

A religious figure is not worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people.....

Anyone?

capitalist businessmen do that shit all the time.. where the **** have YOU been? Does that ridicule STOP said businessman from such behaviors? Have you ever launched an appeal prohibit businessmen from their dastardly choices?

funny how selective your standards are.

Excuse me, but you made an assumpotion based on absolutely nothing.

There has been legislation to stop businessmen from such behaviors even though prior to the legislation, such behaviors were LEGAL.

What a freaking poor attempt at a diversion.

 

[Shogun]

Sad that no one on the left wnats to touch this. It is a valid argument and warrants comments.

Why is a businessman evil and worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people...

But....

A religious figure is not worthy of ridicule when he does something that is within the law but hurts other people.....

Anyone?

capitalist businessmen do that shit all the time.. where the **** have YOU been? Does that ridicule STOP said businessman from such behaviors? Have you ever launched an appeal prohibit businessmen from their dastardly choices?

funny how selective your standards are.

Excuse me, but you made an assumpotion based on absolutely nothing.

There has been legislation to stop businessmen from such behaviors even though prior to the legislation, such behaviors were LEGAL.

What a freaking poor attempt at a diversion.

perhaps it's time that you cite the specific example you keep alluding to instead of insisting that America's history is full of consideration and sensitivity..




but, we both know that you won't do that, don't we.

 

[Jarhead]

capitalist businessmen do that shit all the time.. where the **** have YOU been? Does that ridicule STOP said businessman from such behaviors? Have you ever launched an appeal prohibit businessmen from their dastardly choices?

funny how selective your standards are.

Excuse me, but you made an assumpotion based on absolutely nothing.

There has been legislation to stop businessmen from such behaviors even though prior to the legislation, such behaviors were LEGAL.

What a freaking poor attempt at a diversion.

perhaps it's time that you cite the specific example you keep alluding to instead of insisting that America's history is full of consideration and sensitivity..




but, we both know that you won't do that, don't we.

I cited a valid side to the debate. In a way, a completely different take than what I have been seeing by both sides of this debate.

If you wish to divert and ridicule, so be it.

I will not play into it.

If you consider that a win for you and a loss for me, go for it.

 

[goldcatt]

I agree with alot...no....most of what you say.
However, I too had a part of 9-11 beyond just being an American. Yes, it was terrorists that did it, not Muslims as a whole. However, the terrorists used their warped interpretation of their religion to justufy their actions.

I do not mind them building there. Instead, I am more concerned why our politicians are not expressing more of a concern for their building there. Our politicians should be out there saying, "yes, you may if you wish, but we ask you to first consider how this may make others feel".....

Instead, our politicians are making this an ideological debate and ignoring basic human decency....and as I see how others debate this topic on this board, it appears poeople in general are making this a basic ideological debate without consdideration of basic human decency.

I swear this is true.....

I was talking with my neghbor about 15 years ago. My boss at the time was buying a new car and he offered to sell me his Mercedes for a steal....it was valued at over 25K used and he was selling it to me for 5K....well.....in exchange for a 5K bonus I was due.....

My neighbor proceeded to tell me how her uncle who she never met, was a vicxtim of the Holocost and she would never buy a German made "anything".

My attitude? The Germans of the 40's killed her uncle, not the Germans of today.

However, if a Mercedes reminded her of what happened to her Uncle, I found it insensitive to have it parked in a driveway right next door to her.

So I passed on the car. Stupid? Maybe. Being human and understanding? Certainly was worth it.

Understanding and respecting the phobias and worries of our fellow Americans is what I see America all about.

I am an early riser. I would love to powerwash my fence on a Sunday morning. No law stops me from doing it. But I dont. I respect my neighbors wishes to sleep later on Sunday.

I see what you're saying here, and honestly I can understand how some people will take this as an affront. Yes, to those people it is insensitive. I can see that.

But there are larger principles at stake here than the noise of power washing your fence early in the morning, or even the choice of vehicle parked in your driveway. We're talking about who we are and what we stand for as a nation as well as how we move forward. Do we stand, do we run, do we lash out, do we crawl?

Personally, I prefer to stand. It's just that simple. I realize there is no one right answer, but IMO there are wrong ones.

But I do have one question. If we had captured bin Laden and had a trial and execution, if there had been closure and accountability in that way, would everybody speaking out against this project still feel the same way?

 

[Shogun]

Excuse me, but you made an assumpotion based on absolutely nothing.

There has been legislation to stop businessmen from such behaviors even though prior to the legislation, such behaviors were LEGAL.

What a freaking poor attempt at a diversion.

perhaps it's time that you cite the specific example you keep alluding to instead of insisting that America's history is full of consideration and sensitivity..




but, we both know that you won't do that, don't we.

I cited a valid side to the debate. In a way, a completely different take than what I have been seeing by both sides of this debate.

If you wish to divert and ridicule, so be it.

I will not play into it.

If you consider that a win for you and a loss for me, go for it.

In other words you are going to project an assumption as a "side" and then refuse to cite a valid example because we both know that you are full of shit and merely trying to lay on a guilt trip.

Fair enough, I accept your admittance of having nothing to offer besides the same ironic bullshit your kind have offered from page 1.

 

[Jarhead]

I agree with alot...no....most of what you say.
However, I too had a part of 9-11 beyond just being an American. Yes, it was terrorists that did it, not Muslims as a whole. However, the terrorists used their warped interpretation of their religion to justufy their actions.

I do not mind them building there. Instead, I am more concerned why our politicians are not expressing more of a concern for their building there. Our politicians should be out there saying, "yes, you may if you wish, but we ask you to first consider how this may make others feel".....

Instead, our politicians are making this an ideological debate and ignoring basic human decency....and as I see how others debate this topic on this board, it appears poeople in general are making this a basic ideological debate without consdideration of basic human decency.

I swear this is true.....

I was talking with my neghbor about 15 years ago. My boss at the time was buying a new car and he offered to sell me his Mercedes for a steal....it was valued at over 25K used and he was selling it to me for 5K....well.....in exchange for a 5K bonus I was due.....

My neighbor proceeded to tell me how her uncle who she never met, was a vicxtim of the Holocost and she would never buy a German made "anything".

My attitude? The Germans of the 40's killed her uncle, not the Germans of today.

However, if a Mercedes reminded her of what happened to her Uncle, I found it insensitive to have it parked in a driveway right next door to her.

So I passed on the car. Stupid? Maybe. Being human and understanding? Certainly was worth it.

Understanding and respecting the phobias and worries of our fellow Americans is what I see America all about.

I am an early riser. I would love to powerwash my fence on a Sunday morning. No law stops me from doing it. But I dont. I respect my neighbors wishes to sleep later on Sunday.

I see what you're saying here, and honestly I can understand how some people will take this as an affront. Yes, to those people it is insensitive. I can see that.

But there are larger principles at stake here than the noise of power washing your fence early in the morning, or even the choice of vehicle parked in your driveway. We're talking about who we are and what we stand for as a nation as well as how we move forward. Do we stand, do we run, do we lash out, do we crawl?

Personally, I prefer to stand. It's just that simple. I realize there is no one right answer, but IMO there are wrong ones.

But I do have one question. If we had captured bin Laden and had a trial and execution, if there had been closure and accountability in that way, would everybody speaking out against this project still feel the same way?

I do not think this has anything to do with Bin Laden as a man.

It has to do with how many that lost loved ones view ground zero.

I was a second responder....I was there the very next morning at 6AM and was on again off again 12 hour shifts for 3 days...I saw how these people viewd ground zero up close and in person. They saw it as a tomb of their loved ones. Some asked me to take a rose and lay it on the rubble. Another asked me to read a poem out loud to her husband at the base of tower 1...

As tough as it was to work the RandR, it was even tougher to go through the cleaning up process at the end of the shift becuase that was where all of the family memebers were waiting and wailing....

Now, you couple that with the fact that it is Muslim practice to build a Mosque at the point of victory, and I see why they are upset.

Again, this was not an act of Isalm. This was an act of Terror by those that used their interpretation of Islam as justification.

People, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc....ALL need to respect this...and put their idological beliefs aside.

Not to go political with this....but we are in an age where the Speaker of the House deems it appropriate to march through a large group of protestors holding a large oversized gavel which is, in a way saying "in your face"....and the left said it was justified.

Heck, I wonder if those people would have deemed it appropriate for Rove and Cheney to be walking through a large group of anti war protesters toting a large helium filled balloon in the image of an F-16.....

Hmmm...

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Can you post a vdieo, or audio, or written testimony of any Americans who cheered over the deaths of women and children in Iraq?

If not, you fail. Again.

I could if the archives of some forums were around from 2003.

But, oh, you're right, I forgot, the revised version of Conservatopian history is that no conservatives supported the Iraq war.

I did not say anything about supporting the war. DO try to be honest here. You contended that some Americans cheered the deaths of women and children, the onus is on you to prove your point. I can surely show you video of Muslims cheering the killing of completely innocent people on 9/11/2001.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTYoV-_GlNs]YouTube - ‪Palestinians Celebrate 9/11 Attacks‬‎[/ame]

Didn't we just give the Palestinians another $500 Million in American Tax Payer cash? Stealing from hard working American Tax Payers and then giving it to cretins like this? What a f*cking ignorant sorry Foreign Policy.