Mosque On Ground Zero. An Act Of Aggression: Yea Or Nay?

[Shogun]

You guys are jokes. Oh now you Liberals suddenly hate that Eminent Domain stuff. Sorry,not buying it. You've just changed your tune because you see that most Conservatives oppose the building of this Mosque. You can't be trusted. Nuff said.

the voices in your ******* head can't be trusted, freak. Like I said, post a link to kelo threads and see what happens.

 

[Shogun]

I oppose Eminent Domain Laws and i always have. I opposed these Laws whether it was convenient or not. That's much more than i can say for phony Liberals who are now on here pretending they opposed Eminent Domain Laws all along. They now oppose Eminent Domain on this particular issue. Gee i wonder why? What a joke.

dig up and link some USMB kelo v new london threads, *****!



why is it that you lack the backbone to support your bullshit?

 

[Shogun]

One, Cordoba House is not a mosque. Two, it's not being built at Ground Zero.

three) too bad the muslims of NYC can't relate to the families of the victims and ask that it be built way far away from ground zero, but I know that's just too much to ask. innit? the sad truth is a group of muslims boarded 4 jet aeroplanes on Sept. 11th 2001 and two of them flew into the world trade center and killed about 3000 people, the other one flew into the Pentago killing more, god only knows where the fourth would have landed except for the brave Americans who said "let's roll." and that's the truth of the matter and no matter how much you insensitive libturds are millions upon millions of Americans can still remember that day and think that mosque should be built elsewhere and that's the way it is. sensitivity is a two way street.

the TRUTH is that a christian stalked, planned and assassinated Dr. Tiller the baby killer while he was sitting in a pew at church. Now, SURELY you are not suggesting that a common faith indicates a the need for a generalized concern...

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Personally i believe if the builders of this large Mosque really wanted to extend a hand of peace,love,and tolerance they would decide to build it somewhere else. Anything less seems like an act of aggression in my opinion. I really am interested in hearing how you all feel about this. Thanks.

Or they would make it a multi-faith center. If they did this I would truly think it is an outreach/healing/understanding type of idea.


Calling it the Cordoba center, however, shows the true intent of this mosque and its location.

Google "Cordoba muslim history" if you dont understand why that name shows the true nature of the motives behind this center.

Umayyad conquest of Hispania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BBC - Religions - Islam: Muslim Spain (711-1492)

The name of "cordoba" symbolizes the muslims defeating and dominating the christians in spain. When they did win they changed the cordoba church into a mosque to represent this victory. Naming the center, in New York @ ground zero, the Cordoba center truly shows the nature of the intent behind the desire to build it in said location.

 

[Shogun]

I oppose Eminent Domain Laws and i always have. I opposed these Laws whether it was convenient or not. That's much more than i can say for phony Liberals who are now on here pretending they opposed Eminent Domain Laws all along. They now oppose Eminent Domain on this particular issue. Gee i wonder why? What a joke.

On December 28, 2008 I posted up this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...-93-families-ask-bush-to-ok-land-seizure.html

Here were my comments on the topic:

Flight 93 was a terrible tragedy, there can be no doubt about that. But what right does the government have to steal that land from a private company?

My favorite quote from the whole article is, "White said Svonavec has not been willing to negotiate, and called that unacceptable." This company doesn't have to negotiate, it's their property!

So am I still just opposing eminent domain for this particular issue?

My apologies. It is clear that you are consistent and honest. There are so few like you that i guess i did jump the gun a bit. Hope you can accept my humble apology.

It would be three shades of hilarious if you have the balls and backbone to dig up the epic kelo v new london thread so that you can see just how heaping of a portion of crow you should be choking down right now.

 

[bodecea]

Personally i believe if the builders of this large Mosque really wanted to extend a hand of peace,love,and tolerance they would decide to build it somewhere else. Anything less seems like an act of aggression in my opinion. I really am interested in hearing how you all feel about this. Thanks.

Or they would make it a multi-faith center. If they did this I would truly think it is an outreach/healing/understanding type of idea.


Calling it the Cordoba center, however, shows the true intent of this mosque and its location.

Google "Cordoba muslim history" if you dont understand why that name shows the true nature of the motives behind this center.

Umayyad conquest of Hispania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BBC - Religions - Islam: Muslim Spain (711-1492)

The name of "cordoba" symbolizes the muslims defeating and dominating the christians in spain. When they did win they changed the cordoba church into a mosque to represent this victory. Naming the center, in New York @ ground zero, the Cordoba center truly shows the nature of the intent behind the desire to build it in said location.

Interesting that you should talk of a mult-faith center. I remember that (I think on the 1 year anniversary) of 9/11, there was a multi-faith service on the site...the Missouri Synod Lutheran minister was kicked out from his church for participating with other religions.

 

[ConHog]

Personally i believe if the builders of this large Mosque really wanted to extend a hand of peace,love,and tolerance they would decide to build it somewhere else. Anything less seems like an act of aggression in my opinion. I really am interested in hearing how you all feel about this. Thanks.

Or they would make it a multi-faith center. If they did this I would truly think it is an outreach/healing/understanding type of idea.


Calling it the Cordoba center, however, shows the true intent of this mosque and its location.

Google "Cordoba muslim history" if you dont understand why that name shows the true nature of the motives behind this center.

Umayyad conquest of Hispania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BBC - Religions - Islam: Muslim Spain (711-1492)

The name of "cordoba" symbolizes the muslims defeating and dominating the christians in spain. When they did win they changed the cordoba church into a mosque to represent this victory. Naming the center, in New York @ ground zero, the Cordoba center truly shows the nature of the intent behind the desire to build it in said location.

Interesting that you should talk of a mult-faith center. I remember that (I think on the 1 year anniversary) of 9/11, there was a multi-faith service on the site...the Missouri Synod Lutheran minister was kicked out from his church for participating with other religions.

And that is relevant to this discussion how? Did any of us endorse his being kicked out? Frankly I didn't even know it, and IF his church kicked him out for participating in a multi faith service , then that is pathetic.

 

[bodecea]

Or they would make it a multi-faith center. If they did this I would truly think it is an outreach/healing/understanding type of idea.


Calling it the Cordoba center, however, shows the true intent of this mosque and its location.

Google "Cordoba muslim history" if you dont understand why that name shows the true nature of the motives behind this center.

Umayyad conquest of Hispania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BBC - Religions - Islam: Muslim Spain (711-1492)

The name of "cordoba" symbolizes the muslims defeating and dominating the christians in spain. When they did win they changed the cordoba church into a mosque to represent this victory. Naming the center, in New York @ ground zero, the Cordoba center truly shows the nature of the intent behind the desire to build it in said location.

Interesting that you should talk of a mult-faith center. I remember that (I think on the 1 year anniversary) of 9/11, there was a multi-faith service on the site...the Missouri Synod Lutheran minister was kicked out from his church for participating with other religions.

And that is relevant to this discussion how? Did any of us endorse his being kicked out? Frankly I didn't even know it, and IF his church kicked him out for participating in a multi faith service , then that is pathetic.

I'm sorry...could I see your "Thread Police" badge, please?

 

[ConHog]

Interesting that you should talk of a mult-faith center. I remember that (I think on the 1 year anniversary) of 9/11, there was a multi-faith service on the site...the Missouri Synod Lutheran minister was kicked out from his church for participating with other religions.

And that is relevant to this discussion how? Did any of us endorse his being kicked out? Frankly I didn't even know it, and IF his church kicked him out for participating in a multi faith service , then that is pathetic.

I'm sorry...could I see your "Thread Police" badge, please?

I need to have a badge to call you out for your diversionary tactics? Nice try . The fact is that unless you an show that anyone in this thread suggested that no one should take place in a multi faith service your point was nothing but an attempt to divert. You can't and it was. You got caught so you attempted to divert again.

Here's a novel concept for you , why don't you try having an HONEST and intelligent conversation for a change?

 

[Coyote]

Personally i believe if the builders of this large Mosque really wanted to extend a hand of peace,love,and tolerance they would decide to build it somewhere else. Anything less seems like an act of aggression in my opinion. I really am interested in hearing how you all feel about this. Thanks.

Or they would make it a multi-faith center. If they did this I would truly think it is an outreach/healing/understanding type of idea.


Calling it the Cordoba center, however, shows the true intent of this mosque and its location.

Google "Cordoba muslim history" if you dont understand why that name shows the true nature of the motives behind this center.

Umayyad conquest of Hispania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BBC - Religions - Islam: Muslim Spain (711-1492)

The name of "cordoba" symbolizes the muslims defeating and dominating the christians in spain. When they did win they changed the cordoba church into a mosque to represent this victory. Naming the center, in New York @ ground zero, the Cordoba center truly shows the nature of the intent behind the desire to build it in said location.

It symbolizes more than that.

According to Wikipedia: It was captured in 711[3] by a Muslim army: in 716 it became a provincial capital, depending from the Caliphate of Damascus; in Arabic it was known as قرطبة (Qurṭuba). In May 766, it was elected as capital of the independent Muslim emirate of al-Andalus, later a Caliphate itself. During the caliphate apogee (1000 AD), Córdoba had a population of roughly 400,000 inhabitants,[4] though estimates range between 250,000 and 500,000. In the 10th-11th centuries Córdoba was one of the most advanced cities in the world, as well as a great cultural, political, financial and economic centre. The Great Mosque of Córdoba dates back to this time; under caliph Al-Hakam II Córdoba received what was then the largest library in the world, housing from 400,000 to 1,000,000 volumes.


According to Newt Gingrich: .... "the capital of Muslim conquerors who symbolized their victory over Christian Spaniards by transforming a church there into the world's third-largest mosque complex." This fact, the transformation of a church into a mosque, is the only thing we should think of when we hear a modern Muslim use the word "Cordoba," according to Mr. Gingrich.

According to this interesting Medievil historical blogger there is considerable doubt cast upon Mr. Gingrich's hystorical synopsis of Cordoba, the Mosque and Church.

...Still, the Muslims did "transform" a Christian church, didn't they? Possibly, but only in a very qualified sense. Most standard histories of Cordoba will note that the Great Mosque is built on the site of the Basilica of St Vincent, Martyr, a Visigothic church that was itself built on the ruins of a Roman pagan temple. And archaeological work has confirmed that the present site of the Mosque did at one time belong to some sort of Christian church. There's no indication that the present-day structure included any elements from that church, though, and exactly when it was razed and under what circumstances is unclear.​

For a complete and interesting account, that takes all claims with a critical eye, read the blog.

He goes on to say:

​

This is the important fact that Newt hopes those who read his polemic will be ignorant of: for a ruler to be legitimate in Muslim eyes in the tenth century, during the time when the Great Mosque was being expanded into its present-day dimensions, it was important to emphasize the peaceful succession of Islam from the other religions in the area. A caliph was expected to have arrived at an accord with the Christians and Jews over which he ruled.****** Far from "symboliz[ing] their victory" the Mosque was held up by Muslim historians a symbol of peaceful coexistence with the Christians--however messier the actual relations of Christians and Muslims were at the time.*******

...and:

So what should modern Christians think when they hear a Muslim use the word "Cordoba"? Well, I know that Newt hasn't been a Catholic for very long now, but maybe his priest ought to direct him to read a little thing called "The Catholic Encyclopedia". Allow me to quote from the 1917 edition (which has the virtue of being in the public domain and easily searchable) and its entry on Cordoba:

In 786 the Arab caliph, Abd-er Rahman I, began the construction of the great mosque of Cordova, now the cathedral, and compelled many Christians to take part in the preparation of the site and foundations. Though they suffered many vexations, the Christians continued to enjoy freedom of worship, and this tolerant attitude of the ameers seduced not a few Christians from their original allegiance. Both Christians and Arabs co-operated at this time to make Cordova a flourishing city, the elegant refinement of which was unequalled in Europe. ​

The article then discusses the persecution of the Christians under Abd-ar-Ramman II, which included the martyrdom of St. Eulogius. Then it continues with the rule of those rulers who expanded the Mosque:

In 962 Abd-er Rahman III was succeeded by his son Al-Hakim. Owing to the peace which the Christians of Cordova then enjoyed [...] the citizens of Cordova, Arabs, Christians, and Jews, enjoyed so high a degree of literary culture that the city was known as the New Athens. From all quarters came students eager to drink at its founts of knowledge. Among the men afterwards famous who studied at Cordova were the scholarly monk Gerbert, destined to sit on the Chair of Peter as Sylvester II (999-1003), the Jewish rabbis Moses and Maimonides, and the famous Spanish-Arabian commentator on Aristotle, Averroes.​

So it's easy to see why a group of Muslims creating a community center in the heart of a majority Christian country in a city known for its large Jewish population might name it "The Cordoba House" They're not, as Gingrich hopes we would believe, discreetly laughing at us because "Cordoba" is some double-secret Islamist code for "conquest"; rather, they're hoping to associate themselves with a particular time in medieval history when the largest library in Western Europe was to be found in Cordoba, a city in which scholars of all three major Abrahamic religions were free to study side-by-side.

Shame on the fear-mongers.

 

[del]

Interesting that you should talk of a mult-faith center. I remember that (I think on the 1 year anniversary) of 9/11, there was a multi-faith service on the site...the Missouri Synod Lutheran minister was kicked out from his church for participating with other religions.

And that is relevant to this discussion how? Did any of us endorse his being kicked out? Frankly I didn't even know it, and IF his church kicked him out for participating in a multi faith service , then that is pathetic.

I'm sorry...could I see your "Thread Police" badge, please?

 

[bodecea]

And that is relevant to this discussion how? Did any of us endorse his being kicked out? Frankly I didn't even know it, and IF his church kicked him out for participating in a multi faith service , then that is pathetic.

I'm sorry...could I see your "Thread Police" badge, please?

Well, apparently he doesn't need no stinkin' badge.

 

[del]

And that is relevant to this discussion how? Did any of us endorse his being kicked out? Frankly I didn't even know it, and IF his church kicked him out for participating in a multi faith service , then that is pathetic.

I'm sorry...could I see your "Thread Police" badge, please?

I need to have a badge to call you out for your diversionary tactics? Nice try . The fact is that unless you an show that anyone in this thread suggested that no one should take place in a multi faith service your point was nothing but an attempt to divert. You can't and it was. You got caught so you attempted to divert again.

Here's a novel concept for you , why don't you try having an HONEST and intelligent conversation for a change?

you really ought to take your own advice, or even better, stfu.

what exactly was she diverting from, assclown? oh, that's right-nothing.

 

[ConHog]

I'm sorry...could I see your "Thread Police" badge, please?

I need to have a badge to call you out for your diversionary tactics? Nice try . The fact is that unless you an show that anyone in this thread suggested that no one should take place in a multi faith service your point was nothing but an attempt to divert. You can't and it was. You got caught so you attempted to divert again.

Here's a novel concept for you , why don't you try having an HONEST and intelligent conversation for a change?

you really ought to take your own advice, or even better, stfu.

what exactly was she diverting from, assclown? oh, that's right-nothing.

Says the guy who's next valid argument will be his first valid argument....

 

[del]

I need to have a badge to call you out for your diversionary tactics? Nice try . The fact is that unless you an show that anyone in this thread suggested that no one should take place in a multi faith service your point was nothing but an attempt to divert. You can't and it was. You got caught so you attempted to divert again.

Here's a novel concept for you , why don't you try having an HONEST and intelligent conversation for a change?

you really ought to take your own advice, or even better, stfu.

what exactly was she diverting from, assclown? oh, that's right-nothing.

Says the guy who's next valid argument will be his first valid argument....

nice diversion

 

[ConHog]

you really ought to take your own advice, or even better, stfu.

what exactly was she diverting from, assclown? oh, that's right-nothing.

Says the guy who's next valid argument will be his first valid argument....

nice diversion

tit for tat. Just thought i'd divert your diversion from Boe's diversion.

 

[del]

Says the guy who's next valid argument will be his first valid argument....

nice diversion

tit for tat. Just thought i'd divert your diversion from Boe's diversion.

can't divert from that which doesn't exist.

i hear boys' life is looking for posters.

 

[bodecea]

Says the guy who's next valid argument will be his first valid argument....

nice diversion

tit for tat. Just thought i'd divert your diversion from Boe's diversion.

More of that...."I don't like it when you do it so I'll do it too" stuff, eh?

 

[Jarhead]

Everybody is so wrapped up in the "sensitivity" issue as it relates to "the Muslim community has the constitutional right to build a Mosque anywhere they want" yet there seems to be little concern that the Muslim community is not showing sensitivity to their decision to build a Mosque where they opted to build the Mosque.

We as Americans are, on the most part, brought up to respect the wishes of others and do our best to make decisions that do not have an adverse affect on others.

In this new age, we have many on the left and even in the middle saying "sure that business man broke no laws, but he made decisions that cost people their livlihood and he should be punished for it"...

Yet nowhere am I seeing anyone on the left nor many in the middles saying "sure the law allows them to buld the Mosque there, but they should be spoken to about the fact that they have no concern about how their decision is further hurting those that are hurting already....."

Afterall, they can build anywhere. Those that died there, were not given a choice of where to die.

Mine is not a concern of whether or not they have the right to build there. They do. Mine is a concern as to why they are not showing sensitivity to their fellow Americans....and why other Americans dont expect them to, but expect Americans in business to show more sensitivity.

THAT to me is hypocrisy to the nth degree.

 

[Douger]

I wonder if the new towers will have turbans ?