Zone1 Mormons are fine, but I have to call BS on the golden plates story.

[bodecea]

Exactly. So I'm wondering if there is a Mormon or someone more knowledgeable than me or the South Park writers about the Golden Plates, if they still exist, if they are buried in a hill in New York then why not dig them up etc.

They aren't there....they were never there. It's all BS by a con-man.

 

[lennypartiv]

Agree they are God's creation. The sin is changing God's creation. God created them male and female. Period.

Some people don't get that. You commit the sin (adultery, greed, gluttony, etc.) you need to repent.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The letters of Paul and the Book of Acts pretty much reveal that Jesus was speaking of the Gentiles.

One Interpretation the Powerful Won't Allow

The logical conclusion is that the Jews were already saved by God the Father through Abraham and Moses. Jesus was sent to save the Gentiles, not to convert the Jews, St. Paul was directed to make the branch religion compatible with Roman tastes.

Anti-semitism is not derived from religion; it is a weapon of the ruling class to blame others for what decadent self-appointed leaders always do themselves.

 

[bodecea]

Their word better line up with Scripture or they're a false prophet. Joseph Smith is a false prophet.

As was L. Ron Hubbard, Muhammed, and Saul/Paul. All con-men figuring out how to gain power thru religion.

 

[BS Filter]

As was L. Ron Hubbard, Muhammed, and Saul/Paul. All con-men figuring out how to gain power thru religion.

Paul was sent by Jesus. I agree with you on the other two.

 

[MarathonMike]

They aren't there....they were never there. It's all BS by a con-man.

If I were a betting man, and I am, I have to agree. Just wondering if there's more to the story.

 

[onefour1]

One Interpretation the Powerful Won't Allow

The logical conclusion is that the Jews were already saved by God the Father through Abraham and Moses. Jesus was sent to save the Gentiles, not to convert the Jews, St. Paul was directed to make the branch religion compatible with Roman tastes.

Anti-semitism is not derived from religion; it is a weapon of the ruling class to blame others for what decadent self-appointed leaders always do themselves.

Jesus came to only preach his gospel unto the House of Israel. For this reason he taught his disciples the following:

Matthew 10:5-7
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Jesus specifically command his apostles not to teach among the Gentiles and Samaritans but only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Another example of this is when Jesus spoke to the Canaanite woman who wished for him to heal her daughter.

Matthew 15:21-28
21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Here Jesus clearly teaches the Canaanite woman in verse 24 above that He is not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Eventually Jesus healed her daughter because of her great faith in him, but at first He never answered her a word. While Jesus was here on the earth, his mission was unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel. It was not until after his death and resurrection and ascension into heaven that he had the gospel preached unto the Gentiles.

Acts 10 tells how it came about that the gospel was eventually taught among the Gentiles. In the days of Jesus and his Apostles, the gospel was to go first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. However, in these latter-days, the gospel was to go first to the Gentiles and then to the Jews. The first shall be last and the last shall be first.

 

[SweetSue92]

I've read a fair amount on the various major religions and I have to say, the story of Angel Moroni and the Golden Plates is the most suspect of all the stories I've read. Is there a Mormon out there who can better explain or defend why he or she believes these plates exist and were given to the Prophet Joseph to transcribe the Book of Mormon? This is not a knock on Mormons I have friends who are Mormons and they are very nice people and do lots of good things in the community and have good families. It's the Golden Plates story that just sounds like pure fantasy to me.

Joseph Smith was a con man. He made a religion up peering into a hat and looking at magic rocks.

I'm not kidding.

The Book of Mormon is full of falsehoods. Look at what is said on this thread about the Book of Abraham--completely valid. None of it is true.

I agree that Mormons can be kind and humble people. Their faith, however, was instigated by a con man. Tragically.

 

[SweetSue92]

If I were a betting man, and I am, I have to agree. Just wondering if there's more to the story.

Mormons believe God has a wife.
They believe Jesus and Satan are spirit-brothers.
They believe when they die they will all go to separate planets to rule with their wives and celestial children or something like that.

You can call that a religion, surely. You cannot call it Christian, however. By Christ's own words and standards.

 

[Hector12]

When I was nineteen years old I was proselytized by two Mormon missionaries for six months. I had known about the Mormon faith for a long time, and I wanted to become a Mormon. Nevertheless, I wanted to investigate Mormon claims rationally.

I began my investigation of Mormonism with the attitude that Mormonism alone could be proved or disproved in ways that the other faiths could not be. We cannot know if Jesus performed all those miracles, including the Resurrection. We cannot proved that he did not. We cannot know if the angel Gabriel dictated the Koran to Mohammed. We cannot prove that he did not.

The Book of Mormon claims to be a detailed history of pre Columbian America from about 600 B.C. to about 421 A.D.

If the Book of Mormon is true events described in the Book of Mormon can be independently verified by archaeology and the writings of the Mayans. The Mayan civilization existed at the time. The Mayans had developed a system of writing.

There is no independent evidence that the events in the Book of Mormon happened, and much evidence that those events did not happen. Mormons like to connect ruins of pre Colombian buildings to events in the Book of Mormon. Pre Colombian buildings in the Americas bare no resemblance to Near Eastern buildings, which is what we would expect if the American Indians were descendants of Jewish refugees, which the Book of Mormon claims.

There is no mention in Mayan writing of any of the events in the Book of Mormon.

Also, there is no evidence that the American Indians are descended from Old Testament Israelites. DNA evidence clearly links the American Indians to people who still live in Northern Siberia.

Joseph Smith bough an ancient Egyptian manuscript, and claimed that it was written by Abraham "in his own hand." He claimed to translate it into The Book of Abraham. Mormons consider the Book of Abraham to be as sacred as the Bible. For years the manuscript was believed to have been destroyed in the great Chicago fire of 1871.

The manuscript was discovered in 1966. It was translated by reputable Egyptianologists. It is Egyptian funeral texts, including the Book of the Dead. It tells about ancient Egyptian deities. There is no mention of Abraham. Also, it appears to have been written in the first century A.D., so Abraham could not have written it.

When I brought my discoveries to the two Mormon missionaries they were shocked and dismayed, but they could not answer my arguments. I was shocked and dismayed too, because I really did want to be a Mormon.

 

[Hector12]

Joseph Smith was a con man. He made a religion up peering into a hat and looking at magic rocks.

I'm not kidding.

The Book of Mormon is full of falsehoods. Look at what is said on this thread about the Book of Abraham--completely valid. None of it is true.

I agree that Mormons can be kind and humble people. Their faith, however, was instigated by a con man. Tragically.

If Joseph Smith was alive today I can see him with a mega church and a nationally broadcast television ministry financed largely by contributions from poor, lonely, elderly women. Eventually Joseph Smith would be discredited by a sex scandal involving underage girls. Most of his followers would believe that he had been framed. They would continue to follow him, and give him their money.

I have known and liked Mormons. They deserve for their religion to be true.

 

[SweetSue92]

If Joseph Smith was alive today I can see him with a mega church and a nationally broadcast television ministry financed largely by contributions from poor, lonely, elderly women. Eventually Joseph Smith would be discredited by a sex scandal involving underage girls. Most of his followers would believe that he had been framed. They would continue to follow him, and give him their money.

I have known and liked Mormons. They deserve for their religion to be true.

The people in the fictional church you describe might as well be Mormon. They are following a human leader and not Christ.

 

[MarathonMike]

Joseph Smith was a con man. He made a religion up peering into a hat and looking at magic rocks.

I'm not kidding.

The Book of Mormon is full of falsehoods. Look at what is said on this thread about the Book of Abraham--completely valid. None of it is true.

I agree that Mormons can be kind and humble people. Their faith, however, was instigated by a con man. Tragically.

From what I recall Joseph Smith made his discovery about 200 years ago and the golden plates were placed in a cave inside a hill somewhere in New York. That would seem worthy of at least a geological survey.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

From what I recall Joseph Smith made his discovery about 200 years ago and the golden plates were placed in a cave inside a hill somewhere in New York. That would seem worthy of at least a geological survey.

If God wanted them found again, they would have been found.

 

[onefour1]

Mormons believe God has a wife.
They believe Jesus and Satan are spirit-brothers.
They believe when they die they will all go to separate planets to rule with their wives and celestial children or something like that.

You can call that a religion, surely. You cannot call it Christian, however. By Christ's own words and standards.

Where in the Bible does it state that God the Father has no wife?
If Satan fell from heaven, as the Bible professes, then what was Satan's status in heaven before his fall?
We believe that if we are faithful, we will inherit the earth which will eventually become a celestial sphere and become part of the kingdom of heaven.

To the Apostle Peter, Jesus gave him the keys of the kingdom and the sealing (binding) power so that whatsoever Peter would seal (bind) on earth it would also be sealed (bound) in heaven.

Matthew 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

To the prophet Joseph Smith, the Lord also gave him the keys of the kingdom and the sealing power. Through revelation we learn that marriages can be sealed for not only time but also eternity. Thus it is binding in heaven. This seems consistent with what Paul taught when he said:

1 Corinthians 11:11
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

The power to bind on earth and have it bound in heaven is a great power that was given to the early church. The power was only to be used here on earth and thus we can perform vicarious baptisms, ordinances, and marriages etc. for those who are dead as well as the living. The Apostle Paul mentions baptisms for the dead in his great sermon on the resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:29
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Here Paul teaches that there would be no reason to baptize for the dead if there was no resurrection and the dead did not rise at all. The power to bind on earth and have it bound in heaven was a power granted to Peter and is a part of the true Church of Jesus Christ. Thus marriages and families can be sealed to each other for time and for all eternity. Some argue that Jesus taught that there is no marriage performed in heaven. That is true. Marriage, like baptism, is an ordinance that must be performed here on earth and not in heaven as all other ordinances of the gospel. If you don't receive the ordinance here on earth or have it performed for you by proxy as a dead person, then you cannot receive it in the hereafter.

Matthew 22:30
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Thus the sealing or binding power is to be used here on earth and not after resurrection. Those who receive not the ordinance of eternal marriage here on earth will not be married in heaven but will be as the angels of God in heaven. So we believe that whatsoever is bound on earth through the Holy Priesthood will be bound in heaven if received here on earth or through proxy ordinances for the dead.

 

[Cougarbear]

Kind of like Moses and the Ten Commandments

Where are they?

I had them but I broke them

Yes, when Moses came down the first time, he was carrying the higher law of Christ. When he saw the children of Israel in grave sin, the knew they could not live that law. So, he threw the tablets at them and broke them. He went back up the mountain and received the lesser law, the Ten Commandments. Even with that, so many people even today can't live by them. Yet, the higher law has been reveled twice. Once by Jesus himself and once to Joseph Smith in these the Latter-days. We now have the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Commandments and Pearl of Great Price.

 

[Cougarbear]

I've read a fair amount on the various major religions and I have to say, the story of Angel Moroni and the Golden Plates is the most suspect of all the stories I've read. Is there a Mormon out there who can better explain or defend why he or she believes these plates exist and were given to the Prophet Joseph to transcribe the Book of Mormon? This is not a knock on Mormons I have friends who are Mormons and they are very nice people and do lots of good things in the community and have good families. It's the Golden Plates story that just sounds like pure fantasy to me.

So, tell us if you believe in the miracles of the Old and New Testaments? If not, why should we answer this question to you?

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, when Moses came down the first time, he was carrying the higher law of Christ. When he saw the children of Israel in grave sin, the knew they could not live that law. So, he threw the tablets at them and broke them. He went back up the mountain and received the lesser law, the Ten Commandments. Even with that, so many people even today can't live by them. Yet, the higher law has been reveled twice. Once by Jesus himself and once to Joseph Smith in these the Latter-days. We now have the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Commandments and Pearl of Great Price.

It would be more believable if Moses and Joseph Smith actually had the word of God instead of…..Trust me, I had them, but I lost them

 

[onefour1]

It would be more believable if Moses and Joseph Smith actually had the word of God instead of…..Trust me, I had them, but I lost them

Moses actually had the tablets and they were placed in the Ark of the Covenant for many years and were had among the people. In the case of Joseph Smith, the angel took the golden plates and so we don't have them.

 

[Hector12]

So, tell us if you believe in the miracles of the Old and New Testaments? If not, why should we answer this question to you?

The miracles of the Old and New Testament happened so long ago that they can neither be proved nor disproved.

The presumed miracles of Mormonism happened so recently that they can be evaluated against the evidence. There is no evidence that any of the events written about in The Book of Mormon happened. There is much evidence that they did not happen. The Book of Abraham is an obvious fraud.