GMCGeneral
Diamond Member
A simplified Q&A concerning Mormonism and its heretical teaching postulated by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
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Zone1 Mormonism Exposed
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A simplified Q&A concerning Mormonism and its heretical teaching postulated by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
who is Joseph K.?
A simplified Q&A concerning Mormonism and its heretical teaching postulated by Joseph K. and Hyram Smith.
DGS49
Diamond Member
"Heresy" requires the existence of orthodoxy. Joe Smith, Brigham Young, and others in their posse believed that they could make stuff up as they went along, and apparently they were pretty persuasive because they convinced a lot of people to believe things that went against what those people had been brought up to believe (i.e., KJV). And when I say, "went against," I mean 180 degrees against, for example, God was once a man just like us, and was exalted to godhood. Gimmeafukkinbreak.
To my way of thinking, the story of the Book of Abraham illustrates the total fraudulence of Smith and those who were in his inner circle. Smith was asked to "translate" an Egyptian scroll, since he claimed to have translated the BoM from "reformed Egyptian." He gladly accepted the challenge and made up an entire book out of (as the lawyers say) "whole cloth." It was later exposed as nothing more than a funerary tract, having nothing to do with Abraham or any other Hebrew.
And yet it is still included in Mormon scriptures.
As Dave Barry often says, "You couldn't make this up."
To my way of thinking, the story of the Book of Abraham illustrates the total fraudulence of Smith and those who were in his inner circle. Smith was asked to "translate" an Egyptian scroll, since he claimed to have translated the BoM from "reformed Egyptian." He gladly accepted the challenge and made up an entire book out of (as the lawyers say) "whole cloth." It was later exposed as nothing more than a funerary tract, having nothing to do with Abraham or any other Hebrew.
And yet it is still included in Mormon scriptures.
As Dave Barry often says, "You couldn't make this up."
GMCGeneral
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #5
That's part of Mormonism's roots in Freemasonry
GMCGeneral
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #6
This is true of all cult leaders. Another glaring example is that of Charles Taze Russell and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Answer
Yes, theologically speaking, Mormonism is a cult. There is much that is taught within Mormonism that is not consistent with the Holy Scriptures.1. Mormonism: When referring to the God of the universe they claim there are many gods:
Christianity and the Bible: There is only one God (Deut. 6:4; Isa. 43:10; 45:5; 46:9; 1Tim. 2:5) in three persons (Doctrine of the Trinity).
Jesus said:
Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
As the children of God and his offspring we were made in His very image and likeness. For this reason, Jesus considers all the children of the Father to be gods. Are we the god to be worshipped? NO! Are we the God who created this earth and all that is therein? NO! There is only the one true God whom we worship and who created us all. But that does not mean there are no other gods. Jesus himself has proclaimed that we are gods. Gods beget gods. You make Jesus a liar to say there are no other gods when he himself considers us to be gods. It is true that we are not the God to be worshipped as the creator and Father of us all but as his offspring, Jesus considers us to be gods as well. Paul the Apostle says it this way:
1 Corinthians 8:4-6
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Here Paul starts off by telling us that idols are nothing. They are not gods. He then tells us that there is none other God but one. But if you realize that Jesus himself considered us to be gods, he then clarifies that there are gods many and lords many but there is only one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are the godhead and are the only God whom we should worship for our salvation.
Bob Blaylock
Diamond Member
- Banned
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A simplified Q&A concerning Mormonism and its heretical teaching postulated by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
It speaks very badly for anyone's faith, who feels a need to slander other faiths in order to elevate his own.
2. Mormonism: God the Father is an exalted man with a body of flesh and bones.
Numbers 23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
1 Samuel 15:29
29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
Hosea 11:9
9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.
Do these verses really mean that God is not a man or that he is not a fallen man who sins and is in need of repentance? Is the resurrected Jesus with his body of flesh and bones a man or something else?
Luke 24:36-43
36 ¶ And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
So, is the resurrected Jesus not a resurrected man with a body of flesh and bones? In the book of Hebrews we read:
Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Here we are told that the resurrected Jesus is the brightness of the glory of the Father and the express image of his person. If Jesus is the express image of God the Father as a resurrected man having a body of flesh and bones, would not the Father also have a body of flesh and bones as well?
John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Does this mean he doesn't have a body? 1 Corinthians 15 tells us that a resurrect body is a spiritual body. Am I a spirit? I have a spirit within me. Jesus is God. He has both a spirit and a resurrected spiritual body. Does this verse disqualify him? All our spirits are clothed in a body of flesh and bones. does this mean that we are not spirit? I don't think that this verse means that God does not also have a spiritual body of flesh ad bones.
Christianity and the Bible: God the Father is not a man (Num. 23:19; 1Sam. 15:29; Hos. 11:9). God the Father, the eternal God is Spirit (John 4:24, etc.).
Numbers 23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
1 Samuel 15:29
29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
Hosea 11:9
9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.
Do these verses really mean that God is not a man or that he is not a fallen man who sins and is in need of repentance? Is the resurrected Jesus with his body of flesh and bones a man or something else?
Luke 24:36-43
36 ¶ And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
So, is the resurrected Jesus not a resurrected man with a body of flesh and bones? In the book of Hebrews we read:
Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Here we are told that the resurrected Jesus is the brightness of the glory of the Father and the express image of his person. If Jesus is the express image of God the Father as a resurrected man having a body of flesh and bones, would not the Father also have a body of flesh and bones as well?
John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Does this mean he doesn't have a body? 1 Corinthians 15 tells us that a resurrect body is a spiritual body. Am I a spirit? I have a spirit within me. Jesus is God. He has both a spirit and a resurrected spiritual body. Does this verse disqualify him? All our spirits are clothed in a body of flesh and bones. does this mean that we are not spirit? I don't think that this verse means that God does not also have a spiritual body of flesh ad bones.
3. Mormonism: God the Father has a wife, through whom he procreates spirit children.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not teach that our mortal bodies are born of a mother in heaven but that our spirits that existed before we were born in this life were born of and eternal Mother in Heaven. We are the offspring of God and spirit children of God.
Acts 17:29
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
If God created us all in his image and likeness, why are some of us female and not male? Could it be that God and his wife had the following conversation:
Genesis 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we believe the teachings of Jesus as follows:
Matthew 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
We believe that marriage is among those things that can be bound to continue in heaven. We believe that God the Father is sealed to a wife and they are one flesh and are bound together for time and all eternity. The Apostle Paul taught the following:
1 Corinthians 11:11
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
When a woman is resurrected is she resurrected as a woman or a man? Is there a purpose in the eternities of having separate sexes? We know that we are the offspring of God. We know that our Father in heaven is the Father of our spirits. We believe that marriage and family can be an eternal association and that it is an eternal principle with God. We believe that through the power of the priesthood of God, man and woman can be joined for time and all eternity and have an eternal increase.
Christianity and the Bible: God created man in his own image (Gen. 1:27) out of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (Gen. 2:7) - not from some "Eternal Mother."
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not teach that our mortal bodies are born of a mother in heaven but that our spirits that existed before we were born in this life were born of and eternal Mother in Heaven. We are the offspring of God and spirit children of God.
Acts 17:29
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
If God created us all in his image and likeness, why are some of us female and not male? Could it be that God and his wife had the following conversation:
Genesis 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we believe the teachings of Jesus as follows:
Matthew 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
We believe that marriage is among those things that can be bound to continue in heaven. We believe that God the Father is sealed to a wife and they are one flesh and are bound together for time and all eternity. The Apostle Paul taught the following:
1 Corinthians 11:11
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
When a woman is resurrected is she resurrected as a woman or a man? Is there a purpose in the eternities of having separate sexes? We know that we are the offspring of God. We know that our Father in heaven is the Father of our spirits. We believe that marriage and family can be an eternal association and that it is an eternal principle with God. We believe that through the power of the priesthood of God, man and woman can be joined for time and all eternity and have an eternal increase.
Crepitus
Diamond Member
- Mar 28, 2018
- 93,169
- 131,721
- 3,615
Freemasons had magic underwear?
Ain't gonna see that in "National Treasure".
Although I have heard that at one point in his life Cage would have done nearly anything for money.
4. Mormonism: The Fall of man was not through sin.
Because Adam and Eve existed in a state of innocence not knowing good and evil before the fall, many in the church do not consider the partaking of the forbidden fruit to have been a sin but they do consider it to be a transgression of the commandment of God. This all comes down to how you define sin and transgression. Some believe that because they had no knowledge of good and evil that Adam and Eve did not understand the partaking of the fruit to be and evil act. Thus they define evil as doing what one considers as being an evil act. Without the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve could not know that it was evil. They only knew that God counseled then to not partake of it. Thus they went against the counsel of God and transgressed his counsel.
In order for mankind to enter a fallen state of existence, it was necessary that mankind transgress the command of God. We believe that God gave the command to allow Adam and Eve to enter this fallen mortal state of being. Before the earth was ever created, God the Father called Jesus to be the Savior of the world. God knew way back then that Adam and Eve would fall. If he had that knowledge and did not what Adam and Eve to fall, He certainly could have kept Satan and his minion from coming to this earth, and he could have not given the command to not partake of the forbidden fruit, and he could not have even planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden, and He could have refrained from calling a Savior from before the foundation of the earth. But He didn't. It was all part of the plan to have His spirit children experience mortality and learn to become more like God by learning good and evil and choosing the good over the evil. God called Jesus to be the Savior before the foundation of the world because he knew in advance what man would do and He planned to go ahead with it anyway. We will not suffer death for eternity but will all be resurrected. However, this life is a test to see what manner of being we would become of our own free will. Those who learn to choose goodness over evil will be much more advanced in the world to come over those who succumb to and choose evil rather than goodness. Learning to become a good being in and of oneself is critical for advancement in God's kingdom.
Christianity and the Bible: The fall of man was through sin (Gen. 3; Rom. 5:12).
Because Adam and Eve existed in a state of innocence not knowing good and evil before the fall, many in the church do not consider the partaking of the forbidden fruit to have been a sin but they do consider it to be a transgression of the commandment of God. This all comes down to how you define sin and transgression. Some believe that because they had no knowledge of good and evil that Adam and Eve did not understand the partaking of the fruit to be and evil act. Thus they define evil as doing what one considers as being an evil act. Without the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve could not know that it was evil. They only knew that God counseled then to not partake of it. Thus they went against the counsel of God and transgressed his counsel.
In order for mankind to enter a fallen state of existence, it was necessary that mankind transgress the command of God. We believe that God gave the command to allow Adam and Eve to enter this fallen mortal state of being. Before the earth was ever created, God the Father called Jesus to be the Savior of the world. God knew way back then that Adam and Eve would fall. If he had that knowledge and did not what Adam and Eve to fall, He certainly could have kept Satan and his minion from coming to this earth, and he could have not given the command to not partake of the forbidden fruit, and he could not have even planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden, and He could have refrained from calling a Savior from before the foundation of the earth. But He didn't. It was all part of the plan to have His spirit children experience mortality and learn to become more like God by learning good and evil and choosing the good over the evil. God called Jesus to be the Savior before the foundation of the world because he knew in advance what man would do and He planned to go ahead with it anyway. We will not suffer death for eternity but will all be resurrected. However, this life is a test to see what manner of being we would become of our own free will. Those who learn to choose goodness over evil will be much more advanced in the world to come over those who succumb to and choose evil rather than goodness. Learning to become a good being in and of oneself is critical for advancement in God's kingdom.
ninja007
Gold Member
LDS church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Mormonism Articles
The changing teachings of the Mormon church.What do Mormon's really believe? Polygamy,blacks and the priesthood were dropped by new revelation what's next?
www.letusreason.org
ninja007
Gold Member
IS THERE ONE GOD OR MANY?
"A time to come in the which nothing shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest." (Doctrine and Covenants 121:28).
The preface reads, "Prayer and prophecies written by Joseph Smith the Prophet in an epistle to the Church while he was a prisoner in the jail at Liberty, Missouri, dated March 20, 1839." So it was 1839.
In 1830, he seemed to still know about God, "By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them" (20:17).
"And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve him, the only living and true God, and that he should be the only being whom they should worship." (20:19).
"Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen." (20:28).
In 1831, he had some truth. "Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I Am, even Jesus Christ" (39:1).
Mormonism is cut-and-paste with a long history of its changing god. There are shreds of truth in The Book of Mormon that agree with the Bible. As in 2 Nephi 31:21; Alma 11:44; and The Testimony of Three Witnesses, agreeing with the early Doctrine and Covenants that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit are one God. And this is not to be confused with the LDS “Godhead of three gods”.
The Mormon god became three gods. An LDS bestseller, “Mormon Doctrine” is emphatic that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three gods. That to the LDS is three beings who are one in purpose, which means it is wrong on multiple gods, but on the number of divine Persons (personages or beings).
THREE Persons who are ONE "in purpose" rather than one God is just adding to Scripture. Never does the Bible or even the Book of Mormon claim that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are just "one in purpose". Three Persons each one revealed to be the one God. And that is what God says about Himself.
The Bible writers were Jewish monotheists who consistently believed in one God. To the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith was the "AUTHOR" and he was not consistent. Because the longer he preached the further he got from the God of the Bible. (Google it the 1830 preface page for the "AUTHOR").
To the LDS, whether Jesus is God or not depends upon who you are talking to. So do the Mormons then worship three gods? If not three, then who is the one God they worship? Jesus is to be worshiped as God. (Mat. 28:9, 17). And yet to become a Mormon God, you must have a body and be married in a temple. So “The Father has a body of flesh and bones” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22). The Mormon Jesus was married according to them. Was the Holy Ghost married? Does He have a body? Moroni supposedly followed the LDS gospel but only got to be an angel. Why did he not achieve the LDS Godhood like Jesus.
Joseph Smith in his early days believed Jesus to be the same person or the same individual as the Father. That is the Modalism heresy from the Book of Mormon as in Mosiah 15:1-5; Alma 11:38-39; Ether 3:14 and other places that have taught contrary and brought confusion.
The imagination deepens as the LDS claim that God the Father has God parents. And God was a sinner who had to progress. Jesus to be God was a sinner who needed to progress. And the LDS "God" of this planet has goddess, polygamist wives, one being our heavenly mother. The marvel would be then when God speaks for Himself to say He does not know her! (Isaiah 44:8).
And this LDS goddess mother gave birth to spirit children, so then Jesus and the devil, Lucifer, are two of our brothers.
Rather than God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being our Creator as revealed by Scripture, a whole council of Gods created in the Pearl of Great Price (Abraham 4-5).
Correctly, JESUS CHRIST is the ETERNAL GOD in the Book of Mormon preface. The emphasis belonged to Joseph Smith. But by at the end of his life from knowing in 1830 that there is one God, Jesus is God, but then thinking Jesus is the Father, then he did not know for sure anymore in 1839.
Then Joseph Smith set out to remake God as his doctrine evolved to preach how that LDS men are Gods in embryo to become Gods. And isn’t that exactly what Satan wants us to believe with his lie to Eve? (Genesis 3:5). Isn't this exactly why Lucifer was thrown out of heaven, for wanting to be as God? (Isaiah 14:12-15). And isn’t this exactly what God has forewarned us about for the protection and purity of His people, to censure every prophet like Joseph Smith who goes after other gods (Deuteronomy 13:1-5)? Then finally, after at least 25 years, Brigham Young who obviously never knew God was leading the LDS to believe that Adam is God. (Google it). What happens to millions of precious people in a religion who will follow after the men who never knew God?
"A time to come in the which nothing shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest." (Doctrine and Covenants 121:28).
The preface reads, "Prayer and prophecies written by Joseph Smith the Prophet in an epistle to the Church while he was a prisoner in the jail at Liberty, Missouri, dated March 20, 1839." So it was 1839.
In 1830, he seemed to still know about God, "By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them" (20:17).
"And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve him, the only living and true God, and that he should be the only being whom they should worship." (20:19).
"Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen." (20:28).
In 1831, he had some truth. "Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I Am, even Jesus Christ" (39:1).
Mormonism is cut-and-paste with a long history of its changing god. There are shreds of truth in The Book of Mormon that agree with the Bible. As in 2 Nephi 31:21; Alma 11:44; and The Testimony of Three Witnesses, agreeing with the early Doctrine and Covenants that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit are one God. And this is not to be confused with the LDS “Godhead of three gods”.
The Mormon god became three gods. An LDS bestseller, “Mormon Doctrine” is emphatic that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three gods. That to the LDS is three beings who are one in purpose, which means it is wrong on multiple gods, but on the number of divine Persons (personages or beings).
THREE Persons who are ONE "in purpose" rather than one God is just adding to Scripture. Never does the Bible or even the Book of Mormon claim that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are just "one in purpose". Three Persons each one revealed to be the one God. And that is what God says about Himself.
The Bible writers were Jewish monotheists who consistently believed in one God. To the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith was the "AUTHOR" and he was not consistent. Because the longer he preached the further he got from the God of the Bible. (Google it the 1830 preface page for the "AUTHOR").
To the LDS, whether Jesus is God or not depends upon who you are talking to. So do the Mormons then worship three gods? If not three, then who is the one God they worship? Jesus is to be worshiped as God. (Mat. 28:9, 17). And yet to become a Mormon God, you must have a body and be married in a temple. So “The Father has a body of flesh and bones” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22). The Mormon Jesus was married according to them. Was the Holy Ghost married? Does He have a body? Moroni supposedly followed the LDS gospel but only got to be an angel. Why did he not achieve the LDS Godhood like Jesus.
Joseph Smith in his early days believed Jesus to be the same person or the same individual as the Father. That is the Modalism heresy from the Book of Mormon as in Mosiah 15:1-5; Alma 11:38-39; Ether 3:14 and other places that have taught contrary and brought confusion.
The imagination deepens as the LDS claim that God the Father has God parents. And God was a sinner who had to progress. Jesus to be God was a sinner who needed to progress. And the LDS "God" of this planet has goddess, polygamist wives, one being our heavenly mother. The marvel would be then when God speaks for Himself to say He does not know her! (Isaiah 44:8).
And this LDS goddess mother gave birth to spirit children, so then Jesus and the devil, Lucifer, are two of our brothers.
Rather than God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being our Creator as revealed by Scripture, a whole council of Gods created in the Pearl of Great Price (Abraham 4-5).
Correctly, JESUS CHRIST is the ETERNAL GOD in the Book of Mormon preface. The emphasis belonged to Joseph Smith. But by at the end of his life from knowing in 1830 that there is one God, Jesus is God, but then thinking Jesus is the Father, then he did not know for sure anymore in 1839.
Then Joseph Smith set out to remake God as his doctrine evolved to preach how that LDS men are Gods in embryo to become Gods. And isn’t that exactly what Satan wants us to believe with his lie to Eve? (Genesis 3:5). Isn't this exactly why Lucifer was thrown out of heaven, for wanting to be as God? (Isaiah 14:12-15). And isn’t this exactly what God has forewarned us about for the protection and purity of His people, to censure every prophet like Joseph Smith who goes after other gods (Deuteronomy 13:1-5)? Then finally, after at least 25 years, Brigham Young who obviously never knew God was leading the LDS to believe that Adam is God. (Google it). What happens to millions of precious people in a religion who will follow after the men who never knew God?
5. Mormonism: Universalism and the salvation of all men.
This can be summed up in few verses. All mankind will resurrect from the dead and that is a salvation from mortal death. However, not everyone will gain entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
In Paul's great sermon of the resurrection, he teaches us that all mankind will be brought back to life through the resurrection of the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
The Apostle John also teaches that there will be both a resurrection of the just and the unjust.
John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Because of Christ, we all will gain immortality. We all will resurrected with an immortal body to never die again. What a wonderful blessing that will be. However, as stated in Matthew 7:21-23
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Those who work iniquity yet profess allegiants to God will be turned away from salvation into the kingdom of Heaven.
So the true belief of our church is that all mankind will rise from the dead and be resurrected but not all will be allowed into the kingdom of heaven.
Christianity and the Bible: The elect go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell (Matt. 25:31-46).
This can be summed up in few verses. All mankind will resurrect from the dead and that is a salvation from mortal death. However, not everyone will gain entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
In Paul's great sermon of the resurrection, he teaches us that all mankind will be brought back to life through the resurrection of the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
The Apostle John also teaches that there will be both a resurrection of the just and the unjust.
John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Because of Christ, we all will gain immortality. We all will resurrected with an immortal body to never die again. What a wonderful blessing that will be. However, as stated in Matthew 7:21-23
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Those who work iniquity yet profess allegiants to God will be turned away from salvation into the kingdom of Heaven.
So the true belief of our church is that all mankind will rise from the dead and be resurrected but not all will be allowed into the kingdom of heaven.
6. Mormonism: Man is not saved by the grace of God.
This is the false teaching that this thread is all about. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that without the grace of God no man can be saved. What is being said by Spencer W. Kimball in the quote above is that God also requires that we do the will of God before he grants his saving grace upon us. Grace is the very power of salvation but it is up to God whom he will grant his grace upon. He has stated in Matthew 7:21 the following:
Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
It is required that we do the will of the Father in order to be saved into the kingdom of heaven. However, we do not believe that it is the work of doing the will of the Father that does the saving. The work is only a requirement before the Lord will grant his grace to save us through his grace. God does not randomly choose whom he will save into his kingdom. The Bible is clear that he will save those who follow after the Christ and keep his commandments. They are they that do the will of the Father. True, grace and works by themselves do not save us but without them God will not grant his saving grace. That is the meaning of
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
There were those among the apostate Jews of the days of Jesus and Paul who believed that their works could save them. But it is not the works that is the power of salvation. It is the grace of Jesus Christ. We are not saved of ourselves and cannot boast of such. The gift of grace is necessary and essential to the obtaining of salvation into the kingdom of heaven. It is not our works that do the saving so we have no reason to boast of ourselves. Yet we do need to have a true faith which requires works (read James 2) that are an integral part of faith in order to gain the grace necessary for salvation. As verse 10 states, we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. God requires us to do good works of faith before he will grant the power to be saved through his grace.
It is a lie that we members of The Church of Jesus Christ do not believe that the we are saved by the grace of God. Here are some verses from our scriptures.
Mosiah 2:20-21
20 I say unto you, my brethren, that if you should render all the thanks and praise which your whole soul has power to possess, to that God who has created you, and has kept and preserved you, and has caused that ye should rejoice, and has granted that ye should live in peace one with another—
21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.
Here one King Benjamin tells us that if we were to server God with our whole souls we would yet be unprofitable servants. In other words, no matter how much faith or works we do, it does not profit us anything toward being saved. It is only in and through the grace of our Savior Jesus Christ that we are saved even though God does require faith and works at our hand.
2 Nephi 25:23
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
Many anti-LDS use this verse to blame us of saving ourselves by our works. But a simple reading of the verse tells the truth. After all we can do, we are only saved by grace. After all we can do, we confess that it is only by grace that we are saved.
God does require something at our hand but the works we do are not what saves us. But they are required of us before God Himself will grant the saving grace that saves. It is by GRACE that we are saved through FAITH. Faith without works is dead (James 2) Faith is essential to bring us unto the grace that saves. We cannot boast of our works for they do not save us. However, if we do not do them, God may not save us with his grace since He does require that we do the will of God to be saved into his kingdom.
Christianity and the Bible: The elect are saved by grace alone (Eph. 2:8-10).
This is the false teaching that this thread is all about. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that without the grace of God no man can be saved. What is being said by Spencer W. Kimball in the quote above is that God also requires that we do the will of God before he grants his saving grace upon us. Grace is the very power of salvation but it is up to God whom he will grant his grace upon. He has stated in Matthew 7:21 the following:
Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
It is required that we do the will of the Father in order to be saved into the kingdom of heaven. However, we do not believe that it is the work of doing the will of the Father that does the saving. The work is only a requirement before the Lord will grant his grace to save us through his grace. God does not randomly choose whom he will save into his kingdom. The Bible is clear that he will save those who follow after the Christ and keep his commandments. They are they that do the will of the Father. True, grace and works by themselves do not save us but without them God will not grant his saving grace. That is the meaning of
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
There were those among the apostate Jews of the days of Jesus and Paul who believed that their works could save them. But it is not the works that is the power of salvation. It is the grace of Jesus Christ. We are not saved of ourselves and cannot boast of such. The gift of grace is necessary and essential to the obtaining of salvation into the kingdom of heaven. It is not our works that do the saving so we have no reason to boast of ourselves. Yet we do need to have a true faith which requires works (read James 2) that are an integral part of faith in order to gain the grace necessary for salvation. As verse 10 states, we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. God requires us to do good works of faith before he will grant the power to be saved through his grace.
It is a lie that we members of The Church of Jesus Christ do not believe that the we are saved by the grace of God. Here are some verses from our scriptures.
Mosiah 2:20-21
20 I say unto you, my brethren, that if you should render all the thanks and praise which your whole soul has power to possess, to that God who has created you, and has kept and preserved you, and has caused that ye should rejoice, and has granted that ye should live in peace one with another—
21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.
Here one King Benjamin tells us that if we were to server God with our whole souls we would yet be unprofitable servants. In other words, no matter how much faith or works we do, it does not profit us anything toward being saved. It is only in and through the grace of our Savior Jesus Christ that we are saved even though God does require faith and works at our hand.
2 Nephi 25:23
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
Many anti-LDS use this verse to blame us of saving ourselves by our works. But a simple reading of the verse tells the truth. After all we can do, we are only saved by grace. After all we can do, we confess that it is only by grace that we are saved.
God does require something at our hand but the works we do are not what saves us. But they are required of us before God Himself will grant the saving grace that saves. It is by GRACE that we are saved through FAITH. Faith without works is dead (James 2) Faith is essential to bring us unto the grace that saves. We cannot boast of our works for they do not save us. However, if we do not do them, God may not save us with his grace since He does require that we do the will of God to be saved into his kingdom.
7. Mormonism: Jesus.
I would ask, before Lucifer (Satan) became a fallen angel what was he? Lucifer used to reside in heaven and was numbered among the the sons of the morning.
Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Verse 16 tells us that Satan in his spirit form is a man. Lucifer as one of the children of God thought that he could claim the throne of God and came up with a plan to save all mankind. He would do this by forcing all mankind to do his will. When he brought this plan before the Father it was rejected because it is essential that mankind have free will to choose to be a good being in and of themselves. But Lucifer didn't like the Father's rejection of his plan and came out in open rebellion against the Father. He managed to get 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven to follow after him. These too were the offspring of God the Father who had free will to choose their own destiny. They were eventually all cast out of heaven into the earth.
Revelation 12:3-11
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Verses 3 and 4 above speak of Satan being in heaven and then being cast to the earth. He drew 1/3 of the stars of heaven from among the children of God and then Satan and all his followers were cast out of heaven to the earth. And then the dragon is said to stand before the woman (who is the church of God) to devour her child (Jesus Christ) as soon as it was born. Herod attempted to kill all the children that were born when Christ was born. But he was unsuccessful and Jesus came but later in life was put to death on the cross and went to heaven (vs 5). The woman (the church) fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared for her 1260 days (vs. 6). We then hear about the war that took place in heaven before the days of Adam and Eve. Michael the arch angel fought against Satan for the hearts of the spirit children of God in heaven. This was Satan's rebellion after God rejected his evil plan (vs 7). Satan eventually got 1/3 of the children of God to follow him. They are called his angels in these verses. They were all eventually cast out of heaven into the earth (vs 8-10). Those who took the side of God and his Christ were allowed to progress by being able to take a body and go through a mortal life. Eventually they could overcome Satan and his minions by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. They were subject to death but loved not their lives even to the death to remain faithful (vs 11).
All the spirits that existed before coming to this earth were the offspring of God. Some rebelled and were cast out of heaven and became Satan and his angels. Angels are men. They are simply messengers. Satan's angels were his messengers. God angels are his messengers. They are all born in the spirit of God the Father. Some rebelled and lost their station in life and became devils for coming out in open rebellion against the Father. They along with anyone in this life who becomes a son of Perdition will be the ones who are cast into the lake of fire and brimstone to suffer eternal damnation. Yes, there are even those among us who become sons of Perdition who were the spirit children of the Father also.
The atonement of Jesus Christ is capable of cleansing anyone who turns to Christ and repents and follows Jesus as long as they don't commit the unpardonable sin. However, there are those who choose to love Satan more than God and choose not to repent or follow Jesus. Jesus doesn't forgive everyone but only those who seek after forgiveness of sin and repent of their evil ways. Jesus does ask that we come unto him but there are those who reject him and will not come to him. These are they who will not find themselves able to enter the kingdom of heaven. We must learn to be humble and desire the free gift of grace by doing the works of repentance and doing good works. Only then can we expect to receive the saving grace of Jesus Christ unto the remission of our sins.
Christianity and the Bible: Jesus is the Son of God (Matt. 15:15-17) and Satan is a fallen angel (Ezek.28:12-14; Matt. 25:41). Christ's sacrifice is sufficient for ALL the sins of His elect (Isaiah 53).
I would ask, before Lucifer (Satan) became a fallen angel what was he? Lucifer used to reside in heaven and was numbered among the the sons of the morning.
Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Verse 16 tells us that Satan in his spirit form is a man. Lucifer as one of the children of God thought that he could claim the throne of God and came up with a plan to save all mankind. He would do this by forcing all mankind to do his will. When he brought this plan before the Father it was rejected because it is essential that mankind have free will to choose to be a good being in and of themselves. But Lucifer didn't like the Father's rejection of his plan and came out in open rebellion against the Father. He managed to get 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven to follow after him. These too were the offspring of God the Father who had free will to choose their own destiny. They were eventually all cast out of heaven into the earth.
Revelation 12:3-11
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Verses 3 and 4 above speak of Satan being in heaven and then being cast to the earth. He drew 1/3 of the stars of heaven from among the children of God and then Satan and all his followers were cast out of heaven to the earth. And then the dragon is said to stand before the woman (who is the church of God) to devour her child (Jesus Christ) as soon as it was born. Herod attempted to kill all the children that were born when Christ was born. But he was unsuccessful and Jesus came but later in life was put to death on the cross and went to heaven (vs 5). The woman (the church) fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared for her 1260 days (vs. 6). We then hear about the war that took place in heaven before the days of Adam and Eve. Michael the arch angel fought against Satan for the hearts of the spirit children of God in heaven. This was Satan's rebellion after God rejected his evil plan (vs 7). Satan eventually got 1/3 of the children of God to follow him. They are called his angels in these verses. They were all eventually cast out of heaven into the earth (vs 8-10). Those who took the side of God and his Christ were allowed to progress by being able to take a body and go through a mortal life. Eventually they could overcome Satan and his minions by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. They were subject to death but loved not their lives even to the death to remain faithful (vs 11).
All the spirits that existed before coming to this earth were the offspring of God. Some rebelled and were cast out of heaven and became Satan and his angels. Angels are men. They are simply messengers. Satan's angels were his messengers. God angels are his messengers. They are all born in the spirit of God the Father. Some rebelled and lost their station in life and became devils for coming out in open rebellion against the Father. They along with anyone in this life who becomes a son of Perdition will be the ones who are cast into the lake of fire and brimstone to suffer eternal damnation. Yes, there are even those among us who become sons of Perdition who were the spirit children of the Father also.
The atonement of Jesus Christ is capable of cleansing anyone who turns to Christ and repents and follows Jesus as long as they don't commit the unpardonable sin. However, there are those who choose to love Satan more than God and choose not to repent or follow Jesus. Jesus doesn't forgive everyone but only those who seek after forgiveness of sin and repent of their evil ways. Jesus does ask that we come unto him but there are those who reject him and will not come to him. These are they who will not find themselves able to enter the kingdom of heaven. We must learn to be humble and desire the free gift of grace by doing the works of repentance and doing good works. Only then can we expect to receive the saving grace of Jesus Christ unto the remission of our sins.
What is Mormonism?
the term Mormon is taken from the name of a Prophet who abridged the record of the ancient inhabitants of America that were written by all the prophets of their time. That record is called the Book of Mormon. Non-Members of the church attached the name Mormons to our religion because we gave them Books of Mormon. The actual name of our church is, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormonism is a term used by others outside the church to describe our faith.
Is Mormonism a cult?
According to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we do not consider our faith to be a cult but we believe that our church is the only true and living church of Jesus Christ upon the face of the earth. Those who reject our faith may see us as a cult but we disagree with them.
the term Mormon is taken from the name of a Prophet who abridged the record of the ancient inhabitants of America that were written by all the prophets of their time. That record is called the Book of Mormon. Non-Members of the church attached the name Mormons to our religion because we gave them Books of Mormon. The actual name of our church is, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormonism is a term used by others outside the church to describe our faith.
Is Mormonism a cult?
According to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we do not consider our faith to be a cult but we believe that our church is the only true and living church of Jesus Christ upon the face of the earth. Those who reject our faith may see us as a cult but we disagree with them.
GMCGeneral
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #19
No slander involved. It is a Christian's obligation to proclaim the Truth. And if it exposes heresy and false teachings as it does here, then so be it.
fncceo
Diamond Member
- Nov 29, 2016
- 45,126
- 38,802
- 3,615
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