More Than 75% Of Americans Aged 17-24 Aren’t Fit For Military Service: DOD

[The Duke]

It's them damn phones!

It can be a useful tool; But you got to put them things down and do something.

 

[Doug1943]

So...you'll have a guy with one leg serving? A dude with MS? A diabetic? An asthmatic?

Sure. Hollywood has conditioned us to believe 'soldier' equals 'combat infantryman'. But that's just about ten percent of the military.
In any case, if the right to vote requires completion of military service, then everyone must be permitted to do it, even if in practice it means they spend their term lying in bed in a military hospital. Or field-testing gas masks. (I'm now stealing details from where I stole the basic idea, Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, which all patriots should read. In fact, all patriots should buy any used copies they find and give them to teenagers to read.)

 

[Mushroom]

I'm now stealing details from where I stole the basic idea, Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, which all patriots should read.

Then you should try actually reading the book. Because what you are saying is not what is in the book at all.

What the book mandates is "Federal Service", it does not mandate serving in the military. They are not even close to the same thing at all.

And yes, I got where you got the idea already long ago. But like the movies based on a post-it note version of the book, you completely missed what it was saying altogether.

"Why, the purpose is," he answered, hauling off and hitting me in the knee with a hammer (I kicked him, but not hard), "to find out what duties you are physically able to perform. But if you came in here in a wheel chair and blind in both eyes and were silly enough to insist on enrolling, they would find something silly enough to match. Counting the fuzz on a caterpillar by touch, maybe. The only way you can fail is by having the psychiatrists decide that you are not able to understand the oath."

As there was a war at the time, a large number went into the military. But it could be research, assisting leapers in Africa, or one of thousands of other jobs. For an example, the CCC of the New Deal era, Peace Corps, Doctors Without Borders, and a great many other things would also qualify, one simply has to be willing to give service to the nation first.

You really do not understand the book or what the author was trying to say in the first place, if you think that mandates military service.

 

[Flash]

No. In a situation where you have to earn the right to vote, by military service, everyone must be allowed to undertake military service. I think I said that in my post.

The Starship Trooper model would probably produce the best government.

If you don't serve for the common good by putting your life on the line then you don't get a say in government. I like it.

It would cut down on the welfare queens that vote for candidates that would give them more welfare.

 

[Flash]

It's them damn phones!

It can be a useful tool; But you got to put them things down and do something.

That is disgusting. Those chicks need to get a life.

 

[Doug1943]

Then you should try actually reading the book. Because what you are saying is not what is in the book at all.

What the book mandates is "Federal Service", it does not mandate serving in the military. They are not even close to the same thing at all.

And yes, I got where you got the idea already long ago. But like the movies based on a post-it note version of the book, you completely missed what it was saying altogether.



As there was a war at the time, a large number went into the military. But it could be research, assisting leapers in Africa, or one of thousands of other jobs. For an example, the CCC of the New Deal era, Peace Corps, Doctors Without Borders, and a great many other things would also qualify, one simply has to be willing to give service to the nation first.

You really do not understand the book or what the author was trying to say in the first place, if you think that mandates military service.

Funny, I recall that the basic idea was that in order to vote, you had to be willing to risk your life in the service of the state, and assumed this was military service, even if not in a direct combat role. I've read the book several times, and again only recently. But I'll have another look at it tonight.

 

[Mushroom]

Funny, I recall that the basic idea was that in order to vote, you had to be willing to risk your life in the service of the state, and assumed this was military service, even if not in a direct combat role.

Nope, it was just that you give service to the nation. There would not be enough jobs in the military if that is all that was available.

He paused, then added, "So why don't you boys go home, go to college, and then go be chemists or insurance brokers or whatever? A term of service isn't a kiddie camp; it's either real military service, rough and dangerous even in peacetime ... or a most unreasonable facsimile thereof. Not a vacation. Not a romantic adventure. Well?"

Once again, a quote directly from the book.

Of course, it also always surprises me when people who have read the book multiple times never picked up that John Rico was a Pilipino.

 

[Doug1943]

Nope, it was just that you give service to the nation. There would not be enough jobs in the military if that is all that was available.



Once again, a quote directly from the book.

Of course, it also always surprises me when people who have read the book multiple times never picked up that John Rico was a Pilipino.

I remember the Phillipino part. Heinlein always tried to work minority groups or strong women into his novels, even sixty years ago, albeit usually in minor parts. One of the men driving a futuristic amphibious assault vehicle in The Puppet Masters, who drives into the hatch of a flying saucer and prevents it closing, has a typically Black name -- and in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, there is mention of a brave Black man who dies defending against an attack, standing on one leg after the other is cut off by some sort of beam weapon. He was ahead of his time.

And of course the distinction between 'Federal Service' and 'military service' is one, in that novel, without a difference. (Although you're right about it being 'Federal Service', not necessarily military. You're a closer reader than I am.)

The idea was that you could get killed doing either. I recall the recruiting sergeant saying, with a 'nasty smile' I think, about how often experimental spacesuits failed, when talking to the novel's hero and another potential recruit.

And didn't 'Carl', an electronics genius working in a lab, get killed when 'the Bugs smeared Pluto'? (I looked for that book last night but couldn't find it, even though I read it again for the Nth time just a few months ago. I've probably lent it to a tutee of mine.)

There are a dozen high-quality intellectual journals putting the patriot case out there, read by a few tens of thousands of pointy-heads.

But the other side has the entertainment industry which reaches tens of millions. (They even made a hideous caricature movie out of Starship Troopers. Awful.)

We need to have assets in this field, as it's how most people get their world view. Until we do, we need to make do with what we have -- old movies where we were the Good Guys, and novels like Heinlein's. If I were a multi-billionaire, I'd fund making movies out of some of his novels, especially a re-make of Starship Troopers.

 

[Mushroom]

And didn't 'Carl', an electronics genius working in a lab, get killed when 'the Bugs smeared Pluto'? (I looked for that book last night but couldn't find it, even though I read it again for the Nth time just a few months ago. I've probably lent it to a tutee of mine.)

Yep, his job was working at an R&D lab on Pluto. it was briefly mentioned when he had dinner with Carmen later in the book.

It was a glorious evening and well worth flunking two classes the next day. It was somewhat dimmed by the fact that we had each heard about Carl — killed when the Bugs smashed our research station on Pluto — but only somewhat, as we had each learned to live with such things.

But the other side has the entertainment industry which reaches tens of millions. (They even made a hideous caricature movie out of Starship Troopers. Awful.)

The movie was both a good movie, and a disgrace to the book. I thought the director should have been fired the moment he admitted he only read a few pages, and then turned them into Nazis. And each project after that just got worse and worse, as the other directors and writers kept trying to shove Paul Verhoeven's politics into each sequel. One after another they turned into the government screwing people over for their own reasons.

There has been word for years that a reboot is in the works, and one that would stay more true to the original. But it has been stuck in development hell for close to a decade now and will likely never be made.

If you want to try a different variant by a protégé of RAH, check out the Chtorran War series by David Gerrold. A lot will seem familiar as a lot of the aspects are lifted from Starship Troopers and other of his stories, but with a much darker turn. With the "History and Moral Philosophy" class called "Global Ethics", and one could say it was as if RAH took his original and turned it up to 11. Of course, the in the same series he created a version of Est training and essentially militarized it to where the instructors are authorized to kill a participant if it for the good of the class.

 

[Doug1943]

Yep, his job was working at an R&D lab on Pluto. it was briefly mentioned when he had dinner with Carmen later in the book.






The movie was both a good movie, and a disgrace to the book. I thought the director should have been fired the moment he admitted he only read a few pages, and then turned them into Nazis. And each project after that just got worse and worse, as the other directors and writers kept trying to shove Paul Verhoeven's politics into each sequel. One after another they turned into the government screwing people over for their own reasons.

There has been word for years that a reboot is in the works, and one that would stay more true to the original. But it has been stuck in development hell for close to a decade now and will likely never be made.

If you want to try a different variant by a protégé of RAH, check out the Chtorran War series by David Gerrold. A lot will seem familiar as a lot of the aspects are lifted from Starship Troopers and other of his stories, but with a much darker turn. With the "History and Moral Philosophy" class called "Global Ethics", and one could say it was as if RAH took his original and turned it up to 11. Of course, the in the same series he created a version of Est training and essentially militarized it to where the instructors are authorized to kill a participant if it for the good of the class.

I'll check that author out, although I stopped reading sci-fi about 40 years ago, when it took a dystopian turn. I grew up reading Astounding and Galaxy, and people like Heinlein and Arthur C. Clarke, and most of what I read was optimistic about the future. (With the occasional tale about corporate-takeover or post-nuclear apocalypse.) An exception was Roger Zelazny, whom I discovered later. Since you're a reader, have you read anything by Patrick O'Brien, or Mary Renault?
And since you're clearly a serious film-goer, you might like this review of the latest Avatar movie, by a brilliant young patriot:
[ The Na'vi vs. The Tlaxcaltecs ]

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What's happening to the military is really alarming. You have to look not just at what the military is now, but the direction of motion ... what will it be like in ten or fifteen years.

AND ... what makes it alarming-squared or -cubed, is that the people running this country still act like the have a real military, like the one we had in Korea or Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan. That is, they're all over the world, shoving the Russians, daring the Chinese to retake their lost province, acting like it's 1993 instead of 2023.

If we were just going to slowly melt into a giant continental Denmark [nothing against the courageous Danes, it's just that they don't have to worry about leading the Free World in a big war], then no problem, provided we keep the nuclear deterrent. No one is going to invade us.

But if we're going to keep our 400 military bases around the world, commit to defending Japan and Australia and Latvia etc, have an 'African Command', etc ... with a 'woke' military ... .which may have to throw soldiers or Marines into real on-the-ground combat... the mind boggles..

There are some groups trying to push back on this, like StarrsUS.com ... but the Left control the Federal government, and they're determined to make the military 'woke'. (I doubt it's because they're in the pay of China or Russia [anyway, isn't Russia supposed to control our side?], but they might as well be.)

Just think about it: a Marine rifle company, with a gay platoon leader or two, some transgender or gender-fluid Gunnery sergeants ... but in compensation, each rifle squad will have one or two nublile young women! Just perfect for unit cohesion!!

Anyway, young patriots should go into ROTC if they can and do a spell in the military; patriots under 36 should join the National Guard or State Guard. And all patriots should, in their local organizations, get as 'close' to the military as they can. Volunteer for the USO if necessary.

You have bought into the lie? I was once assigned to a "naval base" in Alabama in the late 80s. We were 200 miles from the ocean and had half the first floor of a building in an office park as we were a recruiting district headquarters.

My MEPS (an Army command) was located on an Air Force Station that had no runways and no combat personnel whatsoever. Even the local Air Force Base had no aircraft assigned and no deployable troops. The Israelis had more officers assigned to the Air Force Command and Staff College than the five officers we had.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Time to walk away. Tell the rest of the world they're on their own, close all bases, remove all troops outside the United States except Embassy and consulate personnel.

Do you remember when the Alabama Maersk was highjacked by pirates? How close was our military bases to Somolia? You want to take weeks to respond to such an attack?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Nope, it was just that you give service to the nation. There would not be enough jobs in the military if that is all that was available.



Once again, a quote directly from the book.

Of course, it also always surprises me when people who have read the book multiple times never picked up that John Rico was a Pilipino.

Filipino perhaps?

 

[Mushroom]

Filipino perhaps?

Filipino is the Hispanized (or Anglicized) way of referring to both the people and the language in the Philippines. Note that it is also correct to say Filipino for a male and Filipina for a female. Never use or say Philippino, because that doesn't sound right.

On the other hand, Pilipino, is how the locals from the Philippines refer to themselves, or to their national language.

Filipino, Pilipino, Pilipinas, Philippines - What's the Difference?

www.hawaii.edu

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Filipino, Pilipino, Pilipinas, Philippines - What's the Difference?

www.hawaii.edu

I am not Pilipino and neither are you.

 

[Doug1943]

You have bought into the lie? I was once assigned to a "naval base" in Alabama in the late 80s. We were 200 miles from the ocean and had half the first floor of a building in an office park as we were a recruiting district headquarters.

My MEPS (an Army command) was located on an Air Force Station that had no runways and no combat personnel whatsoever. Even the local Air Force Base had no aircraft assigned and no deployable troops. The Israelis had more officers assigned to the Air Force Command and Staff College than the five officers we had.

I didn't understand your point. What is the lie I have bought into?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I didn't understand your point. What is the lie I have bought into?

400 bases, which often are buildings with few personnel assigned. My son-in-law recently deployed to Qatar. Do we have a base there? We share a facility with Qatar. Also, many of those bases on the listing have long since closed.

 

[Doug1943]

400 bases, which often are buildings with few personnel assigned. My son-in-law recently deployed to Qatar. Do we have a base there? We share a facility with Qatar. Also, many of those bases on the listing have long since closed.

Okay. Why do we have them, then? Why do we have an 'Africa Command', when we can't even command a street corner in South Chicago?

I recall a possibly-apocryphal conversation beween a French and British leader, after the latter county had signed a mutual-assistance treaty with the former. "In the event of a war, how many men do you want us to send you?", the British leader asked. The Frenchman replied, "Just one. And we shall see to it that he is killed."

Are they a tripwire, to draw us into the coming conflict between Bongo-Bongoland and Absurdistan?

We can't dominate the world the way we did when we just faced the Soviets. We're moving to a multi-polar world, and it will be full of conflicts and outright wars. We need to stay out of them unless our direct national interests are involved, especially with the way our military is going.

No one is going to invade us. And if we remain armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons and ready to unleash Armageddon on anyone who launches a nuclear attack against, we probably won't face one. (Our enemies probably know they just have to wait until we collapse from within.)

 

[Mushroom]

400 bases, which often are buildings with few personnel assigned. My son-in-law recently deployed to Qatar. Do we have a base there? We share a facility with Qatar. Also, many of those bases on the listing have long since closed.

I know at least one time we had one at Bahrain also. Literally 5 sailors at the port to handle the needs of any ship that came in for fuel.

A lot of idiots think anything that has military people at is a "base".

And do not feel bad, I knew a lot of guys who were stationed on LLS-1, and I used to drive past it every day. The USS Desert Ship, literally a concrete building in the New Mexico desert.

 

[Mushroom]

Okay. Why do we have them, then?

A great many reasons. A lot are liaison, who operate with local forces. Others are trainers, or advisors. We even have active "Officer Exchange" programs with a great many nations.

And almost every major air base and port that is used by many nations has both their personnel as well as our own there. Normally under a dozen people, that arrange things for when aircraft or ships arrive.

And it is not even all overseas. Are you aware that there are German military bases in the US? As well as Japanese, Taiwan, British, and others. It is not simply one sided, they often do the same thing on our bases. In the 1980s I know it was common to see Brits, Aussies, and Sailors from almost any nation in Long Beach, as a great many nations had small contingency groups on that base.