More Christians are conservative meanwhile Christ was liberal...

[Taz]

That's it, god must be waiting for me to get it right.

out of the mouths of babes and fools can come wisdom.......yes, Taz.....God is waiting patiently for you to get it right.......

So how does it go? Abra cadabra...? What's the rest?

looks like you intend to keep him waiting longer......

Ha, I'm making a non-existent invisible guy wait. Man, am I in trouble?

 

[Taz]

Let me guess, your prayer was something other than, "God, I know I'm a sinner, condemned to hell. I repent and plead for your salvation".

I think it was more along the lines of "God, if you are real send me a million dollars and a really hot chick"......

I have a million dollars and a really hot chick already, I don't need god's help for that. But keep praying, you might get yours that way.
And gee, you're wrong AGAIN!!!!

lol....a guy on the internet told me.......

Don't feel bad that you're poor, someone has to drive the bus.

actually I did use to drive a school bus, back while I was in law school.....great way to pay tuition.....

I'm not totally sure that you exist either.

My point is that science cannot prove God, because He is not bound by the laws of the universe.

And you know that how?

.

My point is that science cannot prove God, because He is not bound by the laws of the universe.

and the Spirit is - bound by the universe - Justice is a certainty ?

not sure what science has to do with a need for proving the Almighty ....

.

I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

. I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

you seem as focused on "God" as much as the christians, what is the barrier (sanity) to just any Spirit freely becoming a part of the Everlasting - none, a free ride or you are just going to die ?

.

It doesn't matter what you believe, we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

 

[PK1]

---
Which part(s) i mentioned were "made up"?

Let's see, there's the part about "create a Jesus myth". That was made up. Then there's the part about a "con game". That also was made up.

Let's put your feeble hypothesis to the test. Saul was a high ranking, well respected, powerful Jewish Pharisee and a Roman citizen. He was about as well off as you could get in Israel at that time. Now, you want to say that he had the bright idea one day to just chuck all of that in the trash can and become a despised member of a movement that didn't accept him for over a decade, get the snot beat out of him multiple times, be stoned and left for dead, be ship wrecked, arrested and chained to a Roman guard for years, and ultimately executed in Rome.

Wow, that's an idiotic idea, to say the least.

---
Paul came from a very religious background (folks who are used to persecution), and he was very ambitious. He did develop a following, no?
Ambitious people often have big egos and make up or embellish facts to suit their needs.

Again, he was a very powerful, prosperous, well known Pharisee, at the top of the religious power structure of his day. You want us to believe he traded all that in for all the stuff he suffered, to become one of the people he persecuted, based on stuff he made up himself? Utter hogwash.

---
1) Paul wrote he was a Pharisee, a group of Jews who represented the common people. The elite Sadducees were the upper class.

The Pharisees were part of the ruling class. As such, Saul, you do know that was his name then, had a lot of power, enough that he was given authority to imprison and persecute Christians. Yeah, that's going to make him want to be one of them.

2) Paul was well educated and a religious zealot. Having a big ego with a need to be a leader/converter, his personality was well suited for debate, persistence, and social vindication, even if he had to tolerate abuse.

Again, wrong. Saul was eager to PERSECUTE, not debate or persuade. Note that he was ferreting out Christians wherever he could find them, and taking action against them, not engaging them in debate.

3) His eventual successful leadership based on his "new" Jewish/Gentile gospel, using persuasive references to Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and Son of God (& his BS "vision" of J's resurrection), reinforced his zealous personality and tolerance for abuse from the traditional Jews and Romans.

Bogus on its face. Egomaniacs typically do not set themselves up for persecution. Instead, they set themselves up at the highest pinnacle of power they can reach. I do not recall Alexander the Great, Attila the Hun, Napoleon, etc identifying with the cultures they overthrew, relinquishing the reins of power, and attempting to gain influence by leading those overthrown. Saul already HAD power, and to become one of the Christians was to relinquish that power, not increase it.

4) Evidence of his behavioral reinforcement:
Paul founded several churches in Asia Minor and Europe, using his status as both a Jew & Roman citizen to advantage in his ministry to uneducated, confused & god-fearing Jewish and Roman audiences.

Actually, the churches included people from all segments of society. Paul would debate and preach openly. So much so, in fact, that he, as I mentioned before, had the snot beat out of him on multiple occasions. Hardly a hallmark of an egomaniac who already held a lot of power.

From a social science perspective (cultural anthropology, sociology, politics, psychology), the Bible stories are reflective of ancient mythology mixed with embellished autobiographical writings.

I'm sure you'd like to continue believing that, but your "analysis" of Paul is, quite simply, about as far off the mark as is possible.

---
The Pharisees were NOT part of the ruling class. To say they were simply discredits your arguments about Paul's motivations.

Within the hierarchy of Jewish sectarianism during the Jesus era, the Sadducees represented an aristocratic, wealthy, and traditional elite, in contrast to the Pharisees and the Essenes.

Within Pharisaic tradition, Paul/Saul learned how to make the mohair with which tents were made [Acts 18:1-3]. Later as a Christian missionary, that trade (& tent making) became a means of financial support for him that he practiced ... until he received funds from converted Gentiles & non-aristocratic Jews, who wanted to believe the crap about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and/or "son of God", and they will be "saved" if they believe ... and cough up financial support.
.

 

[BreezeWood]

I think it was more along the lines of "God, if you are real send me a million dollars and a really hot chick"......

I have a million dollars and a really hot chick already, I don't need god's help for that. But keep praying, you might get yours that way.
And gee, you're wrong AGAIN!!!!

lol....a guy on the internet told me.......

Don't feel bad that you're poor, someone has to drive the bus.

actually I did use to drive a school bus, back while I was in law school.....great way to pay tuition.....

My point is that science cannot prove God, because He is not bound by the laws of the universe.

And you know that how?

.

My point is that science cannot prove God, because He is not bound by the laws of the universe.

and the Spirit is - bound by the universe - Justice is a certainty ?

not sure what science has to do with a need for proving the Almighty ....

.

I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

. I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

you seem as focused on "God" as much as the christians, what is the barrier (sanity) to just any Spirit freely becoming a part of the Everlasting - none, a free ride or you are just going to die ?

.

It doesn't matter what you believe, we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

.

Taz: we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

" And you know that how? "


thanks, not the being in the same place - but that we will be somewhere ... alive.

.

 

[hadit]

Let's see, there's the part about "create a Jesus myth". That was made up. Then there's the part about a "con game". That also was made up.

Let's put your feeble hypothesis to the test. Saul was a high ranking, well respected, powerful Jewish Pharisee and a Roman citizen. He was about as well off as you could get in Israel at that time. Now, you want to say that he had the bright idea one day to just chuck all of that in the trash can and become a despised member of a movement that didn't accept him for over a decade, get the snot beat out of him multiple times, be stoned and left for dead, be ship wrecked, arrested and chained to a Roman guard for years, and ultimately executed in Rome.

Wow, that's an idiotic idea, to say the least.

---
Paul came from a very religious background (folks who are used to persecution), and he was very ambitious. He did develop a following, no?
Ambitious people often have big egos and make up or embellish facts to suit their needs.

Again, he was a very powerful, prosperous, well known Pharisee, at the top of the religious power structure of his day. You want us to believe he traded all that in for all the stuff he suffered, to become one of the people he persecuted, based on stuff he made up himself? Utter hogwash.

---
1) Paul wrote he was a Pharisee, a group of Jews who represented the common people. The elite Sadducees were the upper class.

The Pharisees were part of the ruling class. As such, Saul, you do know that was his name then, had a lot of power, enough that he was given authority to imprison and persecute Christians. Yeah, that's going to make him want to be one of them.

2) Paul was well educated and a religious zealot. Having a big ego with a need to be a leader/converter, his personality was well suited for debate, persistence, and social vindication, even if he had to tolerate abuse.

Again, wrong. Saul was eager to PERSECUTE, not debate or persuade. Note that he was ferreting out Christians wherever he could find them, and taking action against them, not engaging them in debate.

3) His eventual successful leadership based on his "new" Jewish/Gentile gospel, using persuasive references to Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and Son of God (& his BS "vision" of J's resurrection), reinforced his zealous personality and tolerance for abuse from the traditional Jews and Romans.

Bogus on its face. Egomaniacs typically do not set themselves up for persecution. Instead, they set themselves up at the highest pinnacle of power they can reach. I do not recall Alexander the Great, Attila the Hun, Napoleon, etc identifying with the cultures they overthrew, relinquishing the reins of power, and attempting to gain influence by leading those overthrown. Saul already HAD power, and to become one of the Christians was to relinquish that power, not increase it.

4) Evidence of his behavioral reinforcement:
Paul founded several churches in Asia Minor and Europe, using his status as both a Jew & Roman citizen to advantage in his ministry to uneducated, confused & god-fearing Jewish and Roman audiences.

Actually, the churches included people from all segments of society. Paul would debate and preach openly. So much so, in fact, that he, as I mentioned before, had the snot beat out of him on multiple occasions. Hardly a hallmark of an egomaniac who already held a lot of power.

From a social science perspective (cultural anthropology, sociology, politics, psychology), the Bible stories are reflective of ancient mythology mixed with embellished autobiographical writings.

I'm sure you'd like to continue believing that, but your "analysis" of Paul is, quite simply, about as far off the mark as is possible.

---
The Pharisees were NOT part of the ruling class. To say they were simply discredits your arguments about Paul's motivations.

Within the hierarchy of Jewish sectarianism during the Jesus era, the Sadducees represented an aristocratic, wealthy, and traditional elite, in contrast to the Pharisees and the Essenes.

Actually, they were very powerful religious figures.

Within Pharisaic tradition, Paul/Saul learned how to make the mohair with which tents were made [Acts 18:1-3]. Later as a Christian missionary, that trade (& tent making) became a means of financial support for him that he practiced ... until he received funds from converted Gentiles & non-aristocratic Jews, who wanted to believe the crap about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and/or "son of God", and they will be "saved" if they believe ... and cough up financial support.
.

He received support while he was in prison. Can you find where he demanded it so he could stop making and selling tents? Please do.

None of this, BTW, lends any credence to your insane belief that he thought becoming a Christian was a good power move.

 

[Taz]

I have a million dollars and a really hot chick already, I don't need god's help for that. But keep praying, you might get yours that way.
And gee, you're wrong AGAIN!!!!

lol....a guy on the internet told me.......

Don't feel bad that you're poor, someone has to drive the bus.

actually I did use to drive a school bus, back while I was in law school.....great way to pay tuition.....

And you know that how?

.

My point is that science cannot prove God, because He is not bound by the laws of the universe.

and the Spirit is - bound by the universe - Justice is a certainty ?

not sure what science has to do with a need for proving the Almighty ....

.

I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

. I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

you seem as focused on "God" as much as the christians, what is the barrier (sanity) to just any Spirit freely becoming a part of the Everlasting - none, a free ride or you are just going to die ?

.

It doesn't matter what you believe, we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

.

Taz: we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

" And you know that how? "


thanks, not the being in the same place - but that we will be somewhere ... alive.

.

Because there's no proof that we go to different places.

 

[PK1]

---
Paul came from a very religious background (folks who are used to persecution), and he was very ambitious. He did develop a following, no?
Ambitious people often have big egos and make up or embellish facts to suit their needs.

Again, he was a very powerful, prosperous, well known Pharisee, at the top of the religious power structure of his day. You want us to believe he traded all that in for all the stuff he suffered, to become one of the people he persecuted, based on stuff he made up himself? Utter hogwash.

---
1) Paul wrote he was a Pharisee, a group of Jews who represented the common people. The elite Sadducees were the upper class.

The Pharisees were part of the ruling class. As such, Saul, you do know that was his name then, had a lot of power, enough that he was given authority to imprison and persecute Christians. Yeah, that's going to make him want to be one of them.

2) Paul was well educated and a religious zealot. Having a big ego with a need to be a leader/converter, his personality was well suited for debate, persistence, and social vindication, even if he had to tolerate abuse.

Again, wrong. Saul was eager to PERSECUTE, not debate or persuade. Note that he was ferreting out Christians wherever he could find them, and taking action against them, not engaging them in debate.

3) His eventual successful leadership based on his "new" Jewish/Gentile gospel, using persuasive references to Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and Son of God (& his BS "vision" of J's resurrection), reinforced his zealous personality and tolerance for abuse from the traditional Jews and Romans.

Bogus on its face. Egomaniacs typically do not set themselves up for persecution. Instead, they set themselves up at the highest pinnacle of power they can reach. I do not recall Alexander the Great, Attila the Hun, Napoleon, etc identifying with the cultures they overthrew, relinquishing the reins of power, and attempting to gain influence by leading those overthrown. Saul already HAD power, and to become one of the Christians was to relinquish that power, not increase it.

4) Evidence of his behavioral reinforcement:
Paul founded several churches in Asia Minor and Europe, using his status as both a Jew & Roman citizen to advantage in his ministry to uneducated, confused & god-fearing Jewish and Roman audiences.

Actually, the churches included people from all segments of society. Paul would debate and preach openly. So much so, in fact, that he, as I mentioned before, had the snot beat out of him on multiple occasions. Hardly a hallmark of an egomaniac who already held a lot of power.

From a social science perspective (cultural anthropology, sociology, politics, psychology), the Bible stories are reflective of ancient mythology mixed with embellished autobiographical writings.

I'm sure you'd like to continue believing that, but your "analysis" of Paul is, quite simply, about as far off the mark as is possible.

---
The Pharisees were NOT part of the ruling class. To say they were simply discredits your arguments about Paul's motivations.

Within the hierarchy of Jewish sectarianism during the Jesus era, the Sadducees represented an aristocratic, wealthy, and traditional elite, in contrast to the Pharisees and the Essenes.

Actually, they were very powerful religious figures.

Within Pharisaic tradition, Paul/Saul learned how to make the mohair with which tents were made [Acts 18:1-3]. Later as a Christian missionary, that trade (& tent making) became a means of financial support for him that he practiced ... until he received funds from converted Gentiles & non-aristocratic Jews, who wanted to believe the crap about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and/or "son of God", and they will be "saved" if they believe ... and cough up financial support.
.

He received support while he was in prison. Can you find where he demanded it so he could stop making and selling tents? Please do.

None of this, BTW, lends any credence to your insane belief that he thought becoming a Christian was a good power move.

---
Unless Muslim, my understanding is that religious leaders don't demand payments for their preaching; it would look bad to do so. However, they will be glad to "suggest" they need your financial support. They still get their "donations" ... or you go to hell

"Insane belief"? That describes perfectly Paul's claim about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and "son of God" .

Hey, no one here knows the accurate details about events from 2,000 years ago. The Bible is one interpretation with a subjective bent.
I was simply offering an alternative hypothesis to the ridiculous claim of seeing a "resurrection".
If anyone claimed that today, would they be taken seriously by sane people?

 

[PostmodernProph]

lol....a guy on the internet told me.......

Don't feel bad that you're poor, someone has to drive the bus.

actually I did use to drive a school bus, back while I was in law school.....great way to pay tuition.....

.
and the Spirit is - bound by the universe - Justice is a certainty ?

not sure what science has to do with a need for proving the Almighty ....

.

I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

. I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

you seem as focused on "God" as much as the christians, what is the barrier (sanity) to just any Spirit freely becoming a part of the Everlasting - none, a free ride or you are just going to die ?

.

It doesn't matter what you believe, we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

.

Taz: we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

" And you know that how? "


thanks, not the being in the same place - but that we will be somewhere ... alive.

.

Because there's no proof that we go to different places.

and you believe the fact there is no proof we go to different places is proof we go to the same place?......

 

[Taz]

Don't feel bad that you're poor, someone has to drive the bus.

actually I did use to drive a school bus, back while I was in law school.....great way to pay tuition.....

I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

. I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

you seem as focused on "God" as much as the christians, what is the barrier (sanity) to just any Spirit freely becoming a part of the Everlasting - none, a free ride or you are just going to die ?

.

It doesn't matter what you believe, we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

.

Taz: we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

" And you know that how? "


thanks, not the being in the same place - but that we will be somewhere ... alive.

.

Because there's no proof that we go to different places.

and you believe the fact there is no proof we go to different places is proof we go to the same place?......

We all go to the same place until proven otherwise. Go for it, prove it.

 

[RicO'Shea]

I respect Christianity but it makes no sense to me. The most part of my friend are religious enough. What I fail to comprehend is why every single one of my Christian friends label themselves as conservative. Doesn't that defy the fundamental teachings of the bible? Or am I making false assumptions and the bible is truly more conservative than liberal? What is the very nature of Christianity: liberal or conservative one?

Christ would never say "let him die" or "feed the poor and they will breed" or "corporations are people". Even the most strident of right wingers know and understand this. Even though they don't like it.

Christ wasn't involved with the government. Notice that His commandments were for His followers. He didn't expect the Roman government to set up a welfare system.

Unbelievable, dude, your church did one hell of a job. Lmao!


Jesus on politics:

Jesus no politician


Jesus on welfare:

What Does the Bible Say About Welfare

Sent from my 0PCV1 using Tapatalk

 

[hadit]

I respect Christianity but it makes no sense to me. The most part of my friend are religious enough. What I fail to comprehend is why every single one of my Christian friends label themselves as conservative. Doesn't that defy the fundamental teachings of the bible? Or am I making false assumptions and the bible is truly more conservative than liberal? What is the very nature of Christianity: liberal or conservative one?

Christ would never say "let him die" or "feed the poor and they will breed" or "corporations are people". Even the most strident of right wingers know and understand this. Even though they don't like it.

Christ wasn't involved with the government. Notice that His commandments were for His followers. He didn't expect the Roman government to set up a welfare system.

Unbelievable, dude, your church did one hell of a job. Lmao!


Jesus on politics:

Jesus no politician

Interesting. I see quotes in there about Moses, who was the leader of the Israeli nation, not instructions from God to the US government. Now, if you want to stipulate that the US is a theocracy led by Christ, I'll be glad to insist that the government be held accountable to His teachings. I'll ask you this, do you consider paying taxes a form of tithing?

Jesus on welfare:

What Does the Bible Say About Welfare

Sent from my 0PCV1 using Tapatalk

Jesus was emphatic about His followers helping the poor and downtrodden, and I believe the government did a great disservice to the Church by stepping in and attempting to become a major source of largess. Many in the Church began to assume that paying taxes meant they were fulfilling Christ's commands. That is, IMO, why liberals today are less generous than conservatives, because they have come to view government as a quasi Church, and they don't have to be personally generous any more.

 

[Avatar4321]

Not that one should try to categorize Jesus politically but he was not a liberal. For starters, He believed in free will, liberals don't.

Explain free will. The biggest thing about Jesus was love, helping your neighbor and people in need. Conservatives don't care about people in need, they're more concerned about costs than they are about all Americans receiving quality health care. Conservatives think all liberals are lazy and that they depend on the government for help and they're judged as being a drag on society. The fact that southern states take in more federal welfare dollars than other states is proof that conservatives depend on government assistance more than liberals do. I'm not saying that there aren't any liberals dependant on the government, I'm saying that when conservatives claim all liberals live off the government that its a big lie. Another huge factor that says liberals are more Jesus like than conservatives is that liberals care about God's green earth whereas conservatives don't. They want to do away with the EPA so there are less regulations so corporations can increase their earnings at the expense of our environment. Jesus would be a tree hugger, and who knows, he could also be an environmental terrorist to save our planet from those who are ruining it.

Sent from my 0PCV1 using Tapatalk

Drone alert.

Drone alert? Lmao, so you got nothing. Not the least bit surprising.

Sent from my 0PCV1 using Tapatalk

Just not interested in casting pearls before swine. What do I care if you remain blind the rest of your meaningless life?

At least try to make a ******* worthwhile point. Your insults don't mean shit to me, but I'm greatly disturbed by your lack of cognitive skills. If you don't have shit that's worthwhile just shut the **** up and save yourself the embarrassment, dude.

Sent from my 0PCV1 using Tapatalk

Pot kettle

 

[Avatar4321]

Drone alert.

Drone alert? Lmao, so you got nothing. Not the least bit surprising.

Sent from my 0PCV1 using Tapatalk

Just not interested in casting pearls before swine. What do I care if you remain blind the rest of your meaningless life?

It's that attitude that, considering you think you're a "Christian," would have Jesus rolling over in His grave. You're no Christian, you're more like an anti Christian. But not to worry, I'm sure they have a prick section in Hell.

Sent from my 0PCV1 using Tapatalk

You're in no position to judge anybody on anything, loser.

Lol, I'm in a position to give my award winning opinion, loser, lol. Rightist's are God's ignorant children, their brains are awash in other men's semen, and their fingers smell of another's anus.

Sent from my 0PCV1 using Tapatalk

You really shouldn't complain about anyone else's cognitive abilities when you say stuff like that.

 

[Avatar4321]

I respect Christianity but it makes no sense to me. The most part of my friend are religious enough. What I fail to comprehend is why every single one of my Christian friends label themselves as conservative. Doesn't that defy the fundamental teachings of the bible? Or am I making false assumptions and the bible is truly more conservative than liberal? What is the very nature of Christianity: liberal or conservative one?

Christ would never say "let him die" or "feed the poor and they will breed" or "corporations are people". Even the most strident of right wingers know and understand this. Even though they don't like it.

Christ wasn't involved with the government. Notice that His commandments were for His followers. He didn't expect the Roman government to set up a welfare system.

Unbelievable, dude, your church did one hell of a job. Lmao!


Jesus on politics:

Jesus no politician


Jesus on welfare:

What Does the Bible Say About Welfare

Sent from my 0PCV1 using Tapatalk

I can't help but notice that neither link has anything to do with anyone in the scriptures telling you to give power to the government to do your God given responsibility to take care of others. Nor do the scriptures teach us to give the time and money of others to help the poor.

Why is it so many of you so called progressives fail to acknowledge the distinction between government hand outs and charity? Compulsion and voluntary giving are two completely contrary ideas. We are told not to steal. Why would you expect us to rob others to "give" when most of that money goes to buy votes and keep politicians luxury and little goes to actually fixing problems.?

 

[Avatar4321]

luckily for me it was you that said that, not God.......I am curious......have you ever heard of parables?......

You can rationalize it all you want but if you don't think that Noah got 2 of EVERY animal on earth on his raft (and all the other kooky tales), then you're not a christian. You're a christian sympathizer, maybe.

lol.....atheists get dumber every year.......

Not an atheist. Wrong AGAIN!

you aren't bright enough to even know what you are......

You're not bright enough to think for yourself, you need everything spoon fed to you from the bible.

Says the person who can't think enough for himself to read the books he complains about and understand what they actually teach. And can't understand why someone might be persuaded intellectually to live the principles of a book he never read.

 

[PostmodernProph]

actually I did use to drive a school bus, back while I was in law school.....great way to pay tuition.....

you seem as focused on "God" as much as the christians, what is the barrier (sanity) to just any Spirit freely becoming a part of the Everlasting - none, a free ride or you are just going to die ?

.

It doesn't matter what you believe, we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

.

Taz: we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

" And you know that how? "


thanks, not the being in the same place - but that we will be somewhere ... alive.

.

Because there's no proof that we go to different places.

and you believe the fact there is no proof we go to different places is proof we go to the same place?......

We all go to the same place until proven otherwise. Go for it, prove it.

???.....how do you intend to prove we all go the the same place unless proven otherwise.....what if each of us goes to a distinctly unique place unless proven otherwise.......what if 12% of us go to Manitoba unless proven otherwise?.......what if some of us come back as Buddha and you come back as a cockroach unless proven otherwise......

 

[Avatar4321]

I think it was more along the lines of "God, if you are real send me a million dollars and a really hot chick"......

I have a million dollars and a really hot chick already, I don't need god's help for that. But keep praying, you might get yours that way.
And gee, you're wrong AGAIN!!!!

lol....a guy on the internet told me.......

Don't feel bad that you're poor, someone has to drive the bus.

actually I did use to drive a school bus, back while I was in law school.....great way to pay tuition.....

My point is that science cannot prove God, because He is not bound by the laws of the universe.

And you know that how?

.

My point is that science cannot prove God, because He is not bound by the laws of the universe.

and the Spirit is - bound by the universe - Justice is a certainty ?

not sure what science has to do with a need for proving the Almighty ....

.

I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

. I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

you seem as focused on "God" as much as the christians, what is the barrier (sanity) to just any Spirit freely becoming a part of the Everlasting - none, a free ride or you are just going to die ?

.

It doesn't matter what you believe, we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

What makes you think you deserve the reward of those that obey while you mock? How would that be just?

 

[Avatar4321]

Again, he was a very powerful, prosperous, well known Pharisee, at the top of the religious power structure of his day. You want us to believe he traded all that in for all the stuff he suffered, to become one of the people he persecuted, based on stuff he made up himself? Utter hogwash.

---
1) Paul wrote he was a Pharisee, a group of Jews who represented the common people. The elite Sadducees were the upper class.

The Pharisees were part of the ruling class. As such, Saul, you do know that was his name then, had a lot of power, enough that he was given authority to imprison and persecute Christians. Yeah, that's going to make him want to be one of them.

2) Paul was well educated and a religious zealot. Having a big ego with a need to be a leader/converter, his personality was well suited for debate, persistence, and social vindication, even if he had to tolerate abuse.

Again, wrong. Saul was eager to PERSECUTE, not debate or persuade. Note that he was ferreting out Christians wherever he could find them, and taking action against them, not engaging them in debate.

3) His eventual successful leadership based on his "new" Jewish/Gentile gospel, using persuasive references to Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and Son of God (& his BS "vision" of J's resurrection), reinforced his zealous personality and tolerance for abuse from the traditional Jews and Romans.

Bogus on its face. Egomaniacs typically do not set themselves up for persecution. Instead, they set themselves up at the highest pinnacle of power they can reach. I do not recall Alexander the Great, Attila the Hun, Napoleon, etc identifying with the cultures they overthrew, relinquishing the reins of power, and attempting to gain influence by leading those overthrown. Saul already HAD power, and to become one of the Christians was to relinquish that power, not increase it.

4) Evidence of his behavioral reinforcement:
Paul founded several churches in Asia Minor and Europe, using his status as both a Jew & Roman citizen to advantage in his ministry to uneducated, confused & god-fearing Jewish and Roman audiences.

Actually, the churches included people from all segments of society. Paul would debate and preach openly. So much so, in fact, that he, as I mentioned before, had the snot beat out of him on multiple occasions. Hardly a hallmark of an egomaniac who already held a lot of power.

From a social science perspective (cultural anthropology, sociology, politics, psychology), the Bible stories are reflective of ancient mythology mixed with embellished autobiographical writings.

I'm sure you'd like to continue believing that, but your "analysis" of Paul is, quite simply, about as far off the mark as is possible.

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The Pharisees were NOT part of the ruling class. To say they were simply discredits your arguments about Paul's motivations.

Within the hierarchy of Jewish sectarianism during the Jesus era, the Sadducees represented an aristocratic, wealthy, and traditional elite, in contrast to the Pharisees and the Essenes.

Actually, they were very powerful religious figures.

Within Pharisaic tradition, Paul/Saul learned how to make the mohair with which tents were made [Acts 18:1-3]. Later as a Christian missionary, that trade (& tent making) became a means of financial support for him that he practiced ... until he received funds from converted Gentiles & non-aristocratic Jews, who wanted to believe the crap about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and/or "son of God", and they will be "saved" if they believe ... and cough up financial support.
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He received support while he was in prison. Can you find where he demanded it so he could stop making and selling tents? Please do.

None of this, BTW, lends any credence to your insane belief that he thought becoming a Christian was a good power move.

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Unless Muslim, my understanding is that religious leaders don't demand payments for their preaching; it would look bad to do so. However, they will be glad to "suggest" they need your financial support. They still get their "donations" ... or you go to hell

"Insane belief"? That describes perfectly Paul's claim about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and "son of God" .

Hey, no one here knows the accurate details about events from 2,000 years ago. The Bible is one interpretation with a subjective bent.
I was simply offering an alternative hypothesis to the ridiculous claim of seeing a "resurrection".
If anyone claimed that today, would they be taken seriously by sane people?

There is an easy way to know the truth. Humble yourself and ask God. The Holy Ghost will teach you the truth of all things.

 

[Taz]

It doesn't matter what you believe, we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

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Taz: we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

" And you know that how? "


thanks, not the being in the same place - but that we will be somewhere ... alive.

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Because there's no proof that we go to different places.

and you believe the fact there is no proof we go to different places is proof we go to the same place?......

We all go to the same place until proven otherwise. Go for it, prove it.

???.....how do you intend to prove we all go the the same place unless proven otherwise.....what if each of us goes to a distinctly unique place unless proven otherwise.......what if 12% of us go to Manitoba unless proven otherwise?.......what if some of us come back as Buddha and you come back as a cockroach unless proven otherwise......

You're speculating. Please provide proof to your theories. Actually, nobody knows where we go, but I see no reason to believe the bible. We are all born the same way, we all die the same way.

 

[Taz]

I have a million dollars and a really hot chick already, I don't need god's help for that. But keep praying, you might get yours that way.
And gee, you're wrong AGAIN!!!!

lol....a guy on the internet told me.......

Don't feel bad that you're poor, someone has to drive the bus.

actually I did use to drive a school bus, back while I was in law school.....great way to pay tuition.....

And you know that how?

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My point is that science cannot prove God, because He is not bound by the laws of the universe.

and the Spirit is - bound by the universe - Justice is a certainty ?

not sure what science has to do with a need for proving the Almighty ....

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I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

. I think he meant that his god isn't bound by the laws of sanity.

you seem as focused on "God" as much as the christians, what is the barrier (sanity) to just any Spirit freely becoming a part of the Everlasting - none, a free ride or you are just going to die ?

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It doesn't matter what you believe, we're all going to the same place, wherever that is.

What makes you think you deserve the reward of those that obey while you mock? How would that be just?

Because there's no proof that obeying a book does anything for anyone when they die. Please try again.