"moral decline"
- Thread starter elvis
- Start date
During the Pequot war -- 1636-1637.
Contrary to the generally held consensus that America is a very moral nation, that has never been true.
If we were a highly moral people this nation would never have happened.
America exists because EUROS killed AMERINDIANS and took their land for over 200 years.
We set out to do this, too. This was not an accident it was a well thought out and executed genocide
So stop bullshitting yourselves.
No nation is really moral.
Nations cannot afford to be moral.
Contrary to the generally held consensus that America is a very moral nation, that has never been true.
If we were a highly moral people this nation would never have happened.
America exists because EUROS killed AMERINDIANS and took their land for over 200 years.
We set out to do this, too. This was not an accident it was a well thought out and executed genocide
So stop bullshitting yourselves.
No nation is really moral.
Nations cannot afford to be moral.
Last edited:
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
Absolute bullshit. You do not like America? Move the fuck away.
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
Just admit you hate America and find a country that you like and move there, assuming they want your sorry ass.
What moral decline. Compared to where we started and where we have been we are a much more moral nation now than at any other time.
DavidS
Anti-Tea Party Member
Morality is an ever-changing term. It is not an absolute. If our founding fathers looked at us today, they would be shocked as to how immoral we are... even the most religious of us.
I believe we must walk a very fine line. Extremism, any version of it, is an endangered specieis since 9/11. If we have a massive terrorist attack by radical islamists, I think that religion will somehow be outlawed in the United States. At least, religion as we know it now. I think it will be replaced with a more washed out version of religion... kind of like Orthodox Judaism vs. Reform Judaism. Even Reform Judaism in America will be kind of dated. Christianity will change... and not for the better. Baptists, extremists of all kind will be forced to change.
I do see us being a completely boring, monotonous society with strict socialist/communist guidelines being placed on us. I think that if we were to use a metaphor and say that when Moses recieved the Torah from G-d we were in our infancy. And we're headed to being 18 years old and no longer needing this "security blanket" called God. Unfrotunately, that's the path I see us heading down in a few hundred years from now. And we'll do all of this under the shadow and guise of morality.
I think that, as a society, as a human race, as we grow and evolve, we'll begin to see how mistaken we are and re-allow a more pure version of G-d into our lives.
I think the global society as a whole right now is acting like a reblious teenager and we don't want to grow up... we don't want to evolve. So you have these two forces at work... the forces of consistency and the forces of change. And I think that's scientifically due to the natural evolution process of human beings.
I believe we must walk a very fine line. Extremism, any version of it, is an endangered specieis since 9/11. If we have a massive terrorist attack by radical islamists, I think that religion will somehow be outlawed in the United States. At least, religion as we know it now. I think it will be replaced with a more washed out version of religion... kind of like Orthodox Judaism vs. Reform Judaism. Even Reform Judaism in America will be kind of dated. Christianity will change... and not for the better. Baptists, extremists of all kind will be forced to change.
I do see us being a completely boring, monotonous society with strict socialist/communist guidelines being placed on us. I think that if we were to use a metaphor and say that when Moses recieved the Torah from G-d we were in our infancy. And we're headed to being 18 years old and no longer needing this "security blanket" called God. Unfrotunately, that's the path I see us heading down in a few hundred years from now. And we'll do all of this under the shadow and guise of morality.
I think that, as a society, as a human race, as we grow and evolve, we'll begin to see how mistaken we are and re-allow a more pure version of G-d into our lives.
I think the global society as a whole right now is acting like a reblious teenager and we don't want to grow up... we don't want to evolve. So you have these two forces at work... the forces of consistency and the forces of change. And I think that's scientifically due to the natural evolution process of human beings.
Nations cannot afford to be moral, folks.
Applying the same sort of morality to our nation that we apply to ourselves is just silly.
History is practically nothing BUT one example of mankind's inhumanity to man after the other.
Show me the founding of any nation, and I will show you men acting in their own interests at the expense of some other group of men.
That is history.
Cleaning it up to make it appear to be otherwise might be okay for children, but I presume that everyone here is an adult and has the maturity to understand that bad things happen.
Applying the same sort of morality to our nation that we apply to ourselves is just silly.
History is practically nothing BUT one example of mankind's inhumanity to man after the other.
Show me the founding of any nation, and I will show you men acting in their own interests at the expense of some other group of men.
That is history.
Cleaning it up to make it appear to be otherwise might be okay for children, but I presume that everyone here is an adult and has the maturity to understand that bad things happen.
mightypeon
Active Member
Well editec I challenge thee:
show me the immorality of Palau and Micronesia.
While "nations cannot afford to be moral" is far from wrong, it should be "meaningfull nations cannot afford to be moral"
Cheers,
Mightypeon
show me the immorality of Palau and Micronesia.
While "nations cannot afford to be moral" is far from wrong, it should be "meaningfull nations cannot afford to be moral"
Cheers,
Mightypeon
It gets far easier to throw your morals (whatever the hell that really means) away if you see others having success and power as a result of acting in an immoral fashion. Imagine we had no police and it was a free for all - soon some of us would use force to just take what we want, allowing others to see that remaining calm, and peaceful no longer held any benefit...
as for 'hating' your nation, that seems like a simpleton's view of citizenship, a nation is a collection of personalities, people, culture and jistory. Far too lose and vague to like or hate, without first narrowing your thought margins and boiling things down to childlike simplicity.
Complaining or pointing out things you do not like should be welcome in any country that has a backbone, an intellect and a desire for betterment.
as for 'hating' your nation, that seems like a simpleton's view of citizenship, a nation is a collection of personalities, people, culture and jistory. Far too lose and vague to like or hate, without first narrowing your thought margins and boiling things down to childlike simplicity.
Complaining or pointing out things you do not like should be welcome in any country that has a backbone, an intellect and a desire for betterment.
Often regular people are not so aggressively imperialst - their leaders are. During the times you mentioned, most reg'lar folks were just trying to get food, shelter and be healthy... not working on ways to exterminate whole populations to annex resources and land.
Their "leaders" certainly were though... often people need to whipped into a frenzy before they follow the plan.
Check out some old school PR instances, maybe google the Creel commission or various edicts and such passed before abolition in order to sew mistrust and anger between groups of people who may have otherwise existed in peaceful concert.
Don't give up on humanity.
C
chloe
Guest
By that are you defining it as the sense of right and wrong?
eots
no fly list
its all by design....
mass mind control - Google Video
To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family tradition, national patriotism and religious dogmas ...
We have swallowed all manner of poisonous certainties fed us by our parents, our Sunday and day school teachers, our politicians, our priests, our newspapers and others with vested interests in controlling us.
The reinterpretation and eventual eradication of the concept of right and wrong which has been the basis of child training, the substitution of intelligent and rational thinking for faith in the certainties of the old people, these are the belated objectives ... for charting the changes of human behavior.
DIRECTOR, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION Brock Chisolm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mass mind control - Google Video
To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family tradition, national patriotism and religious dogmas ...
We have swallowed all manner of poisonous certainties fed us by our parents, our Sunday and day school teachers, our politicians, our priests, our newspapers and others with vested interests in controlling us.
The reinterpretation and eventual eradication of the concept of right and wrong which has been the basis of child training, the substitution of intelligent and rational thinking for faith in the certainties of the old people, these are the belated objectives ... for charting the changes of human behavior.
DIRECTOR, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION Brock Chisolm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there's very little in the manner of metering any governances morality toward a subjective/objective balance imho
Hitler thought he was moral, so did his followers
in fact, has there every been a leader who did not parlay the moral high ground among his/her majority peers....?
further, i would only add that any given governance that runs contrary to it's countries fundamentals provides itself with a baseline to meter against
in fact, can you think of a few doozie examples here, for those of you who can think outta the star spangled subjectivity box....?
Hitler thought he was moral, so did his followers
in fact, has there every been a leader who did not parlay the moral high ground among his/her majority peers....?
further, i would only add that any given governance that runs contrary to it's countries fundamentals provides itself with a baseline to meter against
in fact, can you think of a few doozie examples here, for those of you who can think outta the star spangled subjectivity box....?
I haven't "given up" on humanity.
I'm just not buying into the fairly tales that some of us want to make of it.
C
chloe
Guest
In the minds of the founders, liberty--with all of its intrinsic risks--was more desirable than material prosperity, if that prosperity was accompanied with despotism or collectivism. So strong was their desire that they were willing to give up the latter in order to procure the former for themselves and their posterity.
How dare Americans today refer to material gain as "the American dream." It is not! It is the freedom to honestly pursue one’s goals that should be celebrated. Material gain is only a fruit of freedom, not its root.
Furthermore, much of America’s gain today is predicated upon dishonorable and even dishonest practices. We have become a nation of gamblers and socialists. We allow an unconstitutional tax system to tax our brains out. Rather than cast off a tyrannical tax system, however, we choose to cast away the noble virtue of industry and hard work (because government will wind up with most of it, anyway) in favor of receiving revenue from the labor and effort of others. It is called socialism, and most Americans today (including Christians) appear to fully embrace it.
We expect government to fund our retirement, to reimburse our losses, and to even pay for our health care. What we cannot get from Uncle Sam, we expect from Lady Luck. Americans today want the fruit of freedom but seem unwilling to pay its purchase price. It was not always this way.
Can you imagine a nation without an I.R.S.? Can you imagine a nation with little crime and where children were free to pray in schools? Can you imagine a nation where the father’s income was able to adequately provide for his household? Can you imagine a country with low divorce rates and where virtually everyone with a high school diploma could both read and write and was capable of earning his or her way in society?
Can you imagine a nation without an A.C.L.U. or a N.E.A.? Can you imagine a country that did not legally murder its own unborn children and that would not pander to sexual deviants or criminals? Can you imagine a country that did not glorify, much less sponsor, gambling? Can you imagine a nation with strong state governments and a limited federal government?
Can you imagine a country where you could order a firearm through a catalog and where there was no such thing as a B.A.T.F.E.? Well, you might not be able to imagine such a country, but that was the kind of nation our founders dreamed about, fought for, and bequeathed to their posterity.
Unfortunately, since World War II, we Americans have seemed willing to squander the sacrifice and repudiate the principles of our ancestors. With the way things are going, can you imagine what this nation will look like in another 50 years?
Chuck Baldwin
Governments generate no wealth on their own. Any resources that they have at their disposal have been appropriated from the original producers of that wealth, the citizens. This fundamental truth has largely been forgotten over the years. Yet the government’s respect for and treatment of the property of its citizens often reflects its attitude regarding its citizens’ rights as a whole. Conversely, a government that doesn’t respect the rights of its citizens will have even less regard for their property—be it land, money or personhood.
With the Wall Street bailout, the President and Congress simply disregarded the clear will of the people. And while secret agreements were obviously made and backroom bargains struck, the Constitution and our rights were not even given a second thought.
However, those who wrote the Constitution drafted our founding document with the intention of ensuring that the power of government remained with the people. The Framers wanted citizens to know what the government is doing and how it spends taxpayer funds. And if the elected officials aren’t doing their jobs or the people disagreed with their performance, the Framers empowered the people to unseat their representatives. Without these safeguards, there is no representative government.
Since the country’s inception, America has been synonymous with the concept that there are certain individual rights and freedoms that no one, not even government agents, can violate. As the Declaration of Independence boldly proclaims: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Governments are brought into being to protect our rights. When they systematically violate them, the people have a right—nay, a duty—to resist. This was the true spirit of 1776 that moved the American colonists to start a revolution against a government that was violating their rights. This willingness to stand and fight against corrupt government was what it meant to be an American in our nation’s early years. And if we truly want to be Americans today, it will mean practicing every form of nonviolent resistance available to us as citizens—including picketing, mass protests, sit-ins, boycotts and so on.
Ron Paul
Our Moral Decline most likeley started when People decided to live beyond there means and government decided to pay the bill, implementing programs, bailouts and stripping away individual freedoms.
How dare Americans today refer to material gain as "the American dream." It is not! It is the freedom to honestly pursue one’s goals that should be celebrated. Material gain is only a fruit of freedom, not its root.
Furthermore, much of America’s gain today is predicated upon dishonorable and even dishonest practices. We have become a nation of gamblers and socialists. We allow an unconstitutional tax system to tax our brains out. Rather than cast off a tyrannical tax system, however, we choose to cast away the noble virtue of industry and hard work (because government will wind up with most of it, anyway) in favor of receiving revenue from the labor and effort of others. It is called socialism, and most Americans today (including Christians) appear to fully embrace it.
We expect government to fund our retirement, to reimburse our losses, and to even pay for our health care. What we cannot get from Uncle Sam, we expect from Lady Luck. Americans today want the fruit of freedom but seem unwilling to pay its purchase price. It was not always this way.
Can you imagine a nation without an I.R.S.? Can you imagine a nation with little crime and where children were free to pray in schools? Can you imagine a nation where the father’s income was able to adequately provide for his household? Can you imagine a country with low divorce rates and where virtually everyone with a high school diploma could both read and write and was capable of earning his or her way in society?
Can you imagine a nation without an A.C.L.U. or a N.E.A.? Can you imagine a country that did not legally murder its own unborn children and that would not pander to sexual deviants or criminals? Can you imagine a country that did not glorify, much less sponsor, gambling? Can you imagine a nation with strong state governments and a limited federal government?
Can you imagine a country where you could order a firearm through a catalog and where there was no such thing as a B.A.T.F.E.? Well, you might not be able to imagine such a country, but that was the kind of nation our founders dreamed about, fought for, and bequeathed to their posterity.
Unfortunately, since World War II, we Americans have seemed willing to squander the sacrifice and repudiate the principles of our ancestors. With the way things are going, can you imagine what this nation will look like in another 50 years?
Chuck Baldwin
Governments generate no wealth on their own. Any resources that they have at their disposal have been appropriated from the original producers of that wealth, the citizens. This fundamental truth has largely been forgotten over the years. Yet the government’s respect for and treatment of the property of its citizens often reflects its attitude regarding its citizens’ rights as a whole. Conversely, a government that doesn’t respect the rights of its citizens will have even less regard for their property—be it land, money or personhood.
With the Wall Street bailout, the President and Congress simply disregarded the clear will of the people. And while secret agreements were obviously made and backroom bargains struck, the Constitution and our rights were not even given a second thought.
However, those who wrote the Constitution drafted our founding document with the intention of ensuring that the power of government remained with the people. The Framers wanted citizens to know what the government is doing and how it spends taxpayer funds. And if the elected officials aren’t doing their jobs or the people disagreed with their performance, the Framers empowered the people to unseat their representatives. Without these safeguards, there is no representative government.
Since the country’s inception, America has been synonymous with the concept that there are certain individual rights and freedoms that no one, not even government agents, can violate. As the Declaration of Independence boldly proclaims: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Governments are brought into being to protect our rights. When they systematically violate them, the people have a right—nay, a duty—to resist. This was the true spirit of 1776 that moved the American colonists to start a revolution against a government that was violating their rights. This willingness to stand and fight against corrupt government was what it meant to be an American in our nation’s early years. And if we truly want to be Americans today, it will mean practicing every form of nonviolent resistance available to us as citizens—including picketing, mass protests, sit-ins, boycotts and so on.
Ron Paul
Our Moral Decline most likeley started when People decided to live beyond there means and government decided to pay the bill, implementing programs, bailouts and stripping away individual freedoms.
MasterChief
Member
- Dec 6, 2007
- 151
- 29
- 16
I recall an article about ancient Egypt where a craving complains about the moral decline of their youth. Likewise, St. Augustine makes the same charge in The City of God. Hence, the point is a study of history appears to support the notion that each generation perceives the next as morally degenerate.
One thing that might help is realizing the spoken goals of a nation, and comparing those with the actions. That will only show you integrity, but it's a start.
Then you can at least take leaders/nations to task by showing them what they said and what they did. Nobody in power likes that stuff.
To bad we don't have a democratic world body that could administer international law and enforce it!
Then you can at least take leaders/nations to task by showing them what they said and what they did. Nobody in power likes that stuff.
To bad we don't have a democratic world body that could administer international law and enforce it!
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