MLS Tied with MLB for Popularity Amongst 12-17 Year-Olds

[Toro]

The diving and the theatrics does not happen in every soccer game. It happens with specific players on specific teams in specific leagues in specific countries.

........

Diving and play-acting are blemishes on the sport, no doubt. I wish they'd make a more concerted effort to stamp it out.

However, there are sporting aspects of soccer you don't see in North America, or at least as much. When a player on the opposing team is injured, the team with the ball will kick the ball out so he can receive treatment, and after the treatment, the team with the injured played will give the ball back. After each match, the teams shake hands, sometimes swap jerseys, and then go over the fans and applaud them for supporting the team. Occasionally, fans will applaud the opposing player if he scores a great goal or plays very well.

 

[Dot Com]

Do Orientals play soccer? Why is an Oriental giving advice

 

[Unkotare]

The diving and the theatrics does not happen in every soccer game. It happens with specific players on specific teams in specific leagues in specific countries.

........

Diving and play-acting are blemishes on the sport, no doubt. I wish they'd make a more concerted effort to stamp it out..

The NBA is getting to be as bad.

 

[Unkotare]

Do Orientals play soccer? Why is an Oriental giving advice

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Unkotare]

The diving and the theatrics does not happen in every soccer game. It happens with specific players on specific teams in specific leagues in specific countries.

........

Diving and play-acting are blemishes on the sport, no doubt. I wish they'd make a more concerted effort to stamp it out.

However, there are sporting aspects of soccer you don't see in North America, or at least as much. When a player on the opposing team is injured, the team with the ball will kick the ball out so he can receive treatment, and after the treatment, the team with the injured played will give the ball back. After each match, the teams shake hands, sometimes swap jerseys, and then go over the fans and applaud them for supporting the team. Occasionally, fans will applaud the opposing player if he scores a great goal or plays very well.

You see sportsmanship, concerned for injured players on the other team, and appreciation for outstanding play by an opposing player in all other sports. Nothing particular to soccer there. Some of the behavior by fans (and sometimes players) in international soccer matches is occasionally beyond inappropriate.

 

[Montrovant]

Ever since Pele came to play in the US during the 70s, I have heard that there would be a resurgence of Soccer in the US. After all, the rest of the world LOVES Soccer so it is only a matter of time before the US embraces the game

It hasn't happened. I don't think it ever will

Americans hate soccer. I don't see that changing

There has been a resurgence in soccer. There is a healthy and growing professional league, and the US is ranked in the top 20 in the world. NBC paid $100 million for the Premiership rights, and Disney paid a couple billion for the World Cup. Small peanuts compared to the big three leagues for sure, but evidence that it is certainly growing.

Soccer will never be as big as football, baseball or basketball. But hockey? Maybe one day.

And that's sad, because hockey is clearly a superior sport!

 

[Montrovant]

If your definition of "in shape" is limited to the ability to run all day, then maybe so. (Basketball and tennis fans may give you an argument).

But considering strength, flexibility, and athleticism, the top players in football, basketball, and baseball all make the soccer guys look pathetic.

How many pro soccer players could bench press 250 lbs? Now many could dunk a basketball?

Seriously, what do you think?

How many basketball players could strike a soccer ball at close to 80 mph from over 30 yards away from goal and accurately beat a 6'5'' keeper whose reflexes are almost cat-like?

How many football players could pull off a perfectly timed sliding challenge that dispossess an opponent of the ball without breaking their legs or earning a yellow or red card?

How many baseball players can accurately launch 40-50 yard lobbed passes up the pitch to a striker running into space beyond opposing defenders without underhitting to an opponent or overhitting it into the stands?

How many hockey players could thread a delicate pass through a congested, chaotic and highly combative midfield area without turning over possession or getting taken out by an opposing defensive midfielder?

I can play that game too.

I'm not going to denigrate the skills or physical fitness of soccer players. However......I find the idea that they are hyper-accurate when shooting at the goal very counter-intuitive. Isn't the goal something like 10 feet high and 23 feet long? I don't care how 'cat-like' your reflexes are, if the players were so fast and accurate with their kicks, from great distances, there's no reason not to have much higher scoring games. The net is HUGE!

And look at a soccer shoot out. All the goaltender can do is guess and jump a certain way (or stay still) and hope. They certainly don't have time to use 'cat-like' reflexes to stop the shot if it's moving at 80 mph and they have so much net to cover!

Now, I don't know what it's like in leagues with smaller nets.

 

[Merchant_of_Meh]

just found out about this guy Toro- Bergkamp, after doing a search because of your thread, because I don't follow sports very much. You heard of him? Look at the feed at 1:45 to his teammate who slams it home at 1:50 , among other brilliant moves. [MENTION=2926]Toro[/MENTION]

Dennis Bergkamp ? Technique and Elegance - YouTube

Legendary player.

I still don't know of a current player that can do the things he did with the ball at his feet.

 

[Toro]

........

Diving and play-acting are blemishes on the sport, no doubt. I wish they'd make a more concerted effort to stamp it out.

However, there are sporting aspects of soccer you don't see in North America, or at least as much. When a player on the opposing team is injured, the team with the ball will kick the ball out so he can receive treatment, and after the treatment, the team with the injured played will give the ball back. After each match, the teams shake hands, sometimes swap jerseys, and then go over the fans and applaud them for supporting the team. Occasionally, fans will applaud the opposing player if he scores a great goal or plays very well.

You see sportsmanship, concerned for injured players on the other team, and appreciation for outstanding play by an opposing player in all other sports. Nothing particular to soccer there. Some of the behavior by fans (and sometimes players) in international soccer matches is occasionally beyond inappropriate.

I totally agree. In Brazil a few years back, a ref was beheaded and his head placed on a stick that was planted in the middle of the center circle. It was shocking.

But much of the rioting has been stamped out due to effective crowd control and pricing tickets out of the reach of thugs and hooligans.

 

[Unkotare]

In Brazil a few years back, a ref was beheaded and his head placed on a stick that was planted in the middle of the center circle. It was shocking.

I remember that. Pretty hard to outdo that one. What the hell gets into people? Humans are dangerous animals in general.

 

[rightwinger]

The diving and the theatrics does not happen in every soccer game. It happens with specific players on specific teams in specific leagues in specific countries.

........

Diving and play-acting are blemishes on the sport, no doubt. I wish they'd make a more concerted effort to stamp it out.

However, there are sporting aspects of soccer you don't see in North America, or at least as much. When a player on the opposing team is injured, the team with the ball will kick the ball out so he can receive treatment, and after the treatment, the team with the injured played will give the ball back. After each match, the teams shake hands, sometimes swap jerseys, and then go over the fans and applaud them for supporting the team. Occasionally, fans will applaud the opposing player if he scores a great goal or plays very well.

Most other sports have figured out a way to call time out when a player is injured

Usually when a player is writhing in pain they give the ref this whistle thingy that he can blow and stop play

 

[Merchant_of_Meh]

If your definition of "in shape" is limited to the ability to run all day, then maybe so. (Basketball and tennis fans may give you an argument).

But considering strength, flexibility, and athleticism, the top players in football, basketball, and baseball all make the soccer guys look pathetic.

How many pro soccer players could bench press 250 lbs? Now many could dunk a basketball?

Seriously, what do you think?

How many basketball players could strike a soccer ball at close to 80 mph from over 30 yards away from goal and accurately beat a 6'5'' keeper whose reflexes are almost cat-like?

How many football players could pull off a perfectly timed sliding challenge that dispossess an opponent of the ball without breaking their legs or earning a yellow or red card?

How many baseball players can accurately launch 40-50 yard lobbed passes up the pitch to a striker running into space beyond opposing defenders without underhitting to an opponent or overhitting it into the stands?

How many hockey players could thread a delicate pass through a congested, chaotic and highly combative midfield area without turning over possession or getting taken out by an opposing defensive midfielder?

I can play that game too.

I'm not going to denigrate the skills or physical fitness of soccer players. However......I find the idea that they are hyper-accurate when shooting at the goal very counter-intuitive. Isn't the goal something like 10 feet high and 23 feet long? I don't care how 'cat-like' your reflexes are, if the players were so fast and accurate with their kicks, from great distances, there's no reason not to have much higher scoring games. The net is HUGE!

And look at a soccer shoot out. All the goaltender can do is guess and jump a certain way (or stay still) and hope. They certainly don't have time to use 'cat-like' reflexes to stop the shot if it's moving at 80 mph and they have so much net to cover!

Now, I don't know what it's like in leagues with smaller nets.

The goal is 8 feet high and 24 feet wide. I played keeper in high school using those dimension and while it sounds big, it can get surprisingly small when the action is right in front of it.

As for your theory that a wider net means more goals should be scored, that's not quite right. Shots must be accurate for that to happen and with the more prolific forwards, this is often the case. For lesser players, this becomes a problem as many of their shots either go off target (missing the goal completely) or get blocked by opposing players or the opposing keeper. This isn't even discounting just how good or bad a defending team is vs how good or bad an attacking team is. If the defense is bad, but the attack is good then yes you're going to get a goalfest. If the defense great, but the attack is poor then yes you're going to be looking at 0-0, 1-0 or something like that. If both defenses and both attacks are good, then you have a thriller on your hands...I'm talking 2-3, 3-1, 4-4 scorelines etc.

As for the ability of the goalkeepers themselves. They rely primarily on their reflexes, just as hockey goalies do. The big difference is that a keeper must command a larger area, not just the goal mouth. They often can be seen higher up just outside of their box, barking out orders to their defenders.

In PK shootouts, it's essentially a guessing game so you're right in that regard. It is a bit more complex than that though. Some keepers are just able to "read" the PK-takers body language and base their guess off of that. This is also something that the PK-taker does as well. If the keeper gives them even the slightest idea of which direction they are going, the attacker can choose to go the opposite direction. So as much as it is a guessing game, it's also a bit of a battle of wits.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Ever since Pele came to play in the US during the 70s, I have heard that there would be a resurgence of Soccer in the US. After all, the rest of the world LOVES Soccer so it is only a matter of time before the US embraces the game

It hasn't happened. I don't think it ever will

Americans hate soccer. I don't see that changing

Americans do not hate soccer. They never really have. At the very least, America is quite indifferent to it. That a farcry from outright hatred.

Even this indifference is beginning to wane though. FOX Sports has aired the Champions League Final, which has steadily held an average of 1.5 million US viewers over the last 4 years with the peak of those ratings coming in 2011 when the championship featured Barcelona and Manchester United, 2 of the most popular franchises in world sports. 2.2 million Americans watched that match. That's astronomical for a country who apparently "hates" the sport.

Look at the ratings for the WC 2010. It increased 40% from the 2006 tournament in the US. Outrageous for a country that "hates" the sport.

These are not mistakes, anomalies or flukes. Interest in the sport has been on a very steady increase. It will remain as such largely down to younger generations who will pass on this interest to future generations. The older generations that are indifferent to the sport are are on a rather quick road to becoming the minority.

The older generation takes their cues from Jim Rome and Simon Cowherd who think it's cool to hate soccer. They have the mindset of ten-year-olds who are just thinking what daddy taught them to think. Heaven forbid they should actually think for themselves. That's not to say it's not okay to like other sports more. But 'hating' soccer really speaks to their own insecurities.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

If your definition of "in shape" is limited to the ability to run all day, then maybe so. (Basketball and tennis fans may give you an argument).

But considering strength, flexibility, and athleticism, the top players in football, basketball, and baseball all make the soccer guys look pathetic.

How many pro soccer players could bench press 250 lbs? Now many could dunk a basketball?

Seriously, what do you think?

Your arguments are just stupid.

1. No, basketball players and tennis players do not have more stamina than soccer players. It's not even close.
2. Have you seen the legs of most soccer players? They likely can squat significantly more than the athletes of the other sports. You develop the muscles you use. A soccer player has limited use for upper body strength, and that (upper body bulkiness) can be a detriment to them at a certain point even.
3. Probably, most soccer players could dunk a basketball btw. But even a great many players in the NBA can't dunk.

 

[Montrovant]

How many basketball players could strike a soccer ball at close to 80 mph from over 30 yards away from goal and accurately beat a 6'5'' keeper whose reflexes are almost cat-like?

How many football players could pull off a perfectly timed sliding challenge that dispossess an opponent of the ball without breaking their legs or earning a yellow or red card?

How many baseball players can accurately launch 40-50 yard lobbed passes up the pitch to a striker running into space beyond opposing defenders without underhitting to an opponent or overhitting it into the stands?

How many hockey players could thread a delicate pass through a congested, chaotic and highly combative midfield area without turning over possession or getting taken out by an opposing defensive midfielder?

I can play that game too.

I'm not going to denigrate the skills or physical fitness of soccer players. However......I find the idea that they are hyper-accurate when shooting at the goal very counter-intuitive. Isn't the goal something like 10 feet high and 23 feet long? I don't care how 'cat-like' your reflexes are, if the players were so fast and accurate with their kicks, from great distances, there's no reason not to have much higher scoring games. The net is HUGE!

And look at a soccer shoot out. All the goaltender can do is guess and jump a certain way (or stay still) and hope. They certainly don't have time to use 'cat-like' reflexes to stop the shot if it's moving at 80 mph and they have so much net to cover!

Now, I don't know what it's like in leagues with smaller nets.

The goal is 8 feet high and 24 feet wide. I played keeper in high school using those dimension and while it sounds big, it can get surprisingly small when the action is right in front of it.

As for your theory that a wider net means more goals should be scored, that's not quite right. Shots must be accurate for that to happen and with the more prolific forwards, this is often the case. For lesser players, this becomes a problem as many of their shots either go off target (missing the goal completely) or get blocked by opposing players or the opposing keeper. This isn't even discounting just how good or bad a defending team is vs how good or bad an attacking team is. If the defense is bad, but the attack is good then yes you're going to get a goalfest. If the defense great, but the attack is poor then yes you're going to be looking at 0-0, 1-0 or something like that. If both defenses and both attacks are good, then you have a thriller on your hands...I'm talking 2-3, 3-1, 4-4 scorelines etc.

As for the ability of the goalkeepers themselves. They rely primarily on their reflexes, just as hockey goalies do. The big difference is that a keeper must command a larger area, not just the goal mouth. They often can be seen higher up just outside of their box, barking out orders to their defenders.

In PK shootouts, it's essentially a guessing game so you're right in that regard. It is a bit more complex than that though. Some keepers are just able to "read" the PK-takers body language and base their guess off of that. This is also something that the PK-taker does as well. If the keeper gives them even the slightest idea of which direction they are going, the attacker can choose to go the opposite direction. So as much as it is a guessing game, it's also a bit of a battle of wits.

I'm not trying to say the keepers aren't good at what they do. I'm just saying that 8 x 24 net means there is only so much that it is physically possible for a person to do. They can cut down angles with positioning, and obviously the rules of where and when a player can shoot, as well as the actions of the defense, come into play. But as shown by the shootouts, when it comes down to it, there is a point at which no amount of speed or quickness of reflexes can help. I am not a soccer fan, so I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that many soccer games end with pretty low scores. I have always found that odd considering the size of the net.

While a hockey goalie has some of the same issues, they are almost always in a position where, if they had quick enough reflexes, it's possible for them to reach the spot the puck is in. In soccer, in the right situation, the goalie simply cannot cover the entire net; as in the shootout.

It doesn't make the sport bad (although I don't like it, it's not based solely on the size of the goals and relatively low scoring) it's just something that seems to put your praise of the shooting skills of soccer players in question. If you were trying to point out the very best, rather than the average, it's a different proposition.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

^^^
Defenders are taught how to cut down the angles and that is how the goalie only has to cover a limited space at any given time. That is also why if you watch any soccer game, you'll see infuriated goalies yelling at players who give attackers space with the ball. If you're trying to make a case that soccer players are skilled, then that is wrong. The best soccer players are the most skilled athletes on the planet imo.

Also though, fatigue is going to be an issue in any sport. Even in basketball, a player may come out and make five or six threes in a row in warm-ups and then miss his shots in a game. Doing it from a rest in warm-ups vs. in a game while being covered is always an entirely different thing.

 

[Unkotare]

The older generation takes their cues from Jim Rome and Simon Cowherd who think it's cool to hate soccer. They have the mindset of ten-year-olds who are just thinking what daddy taught them to think. Heaven forbid they should actually think for themselves. That's not to say it's not okay to like other sports more. But 'hating' soccer really speaks to their own insecurities.

So, you think that anyone who doesn't like soccer is insecure and not thinking for themselves? Really? And you are criticizing other people's attitude? Wow.

 

[Unkotare]

The best soccer players are the most skilled athletes on the planet imo. .

What an objective evaluation...

 

[Merchant_of_Meh]

I'm not going to denigrate the skills or physical fitness of soccer players. However......I find the idea that they are hyper-accurate when shooting at the goal very counter-intuitive. Isn't the goal something like 10 feet high and 23 feet long? I don't care how 'cat-like' your reflexes are, if the players were so fast and accurate with their kicks, from great distances, there's no reason not to have much higher scoring games. The net is HUGE!

And look at a soccer shoot out. All the goaltender can do is guess and jump a certain way (or stay still) and hope. They certainly don't have time to use 'cat-like' reflexes to stop the shot if it's moving at 80 mph and they have so much net to cover!

Now, I don't know what it's like in leagues with smaller nets.

The goal is 8 feet high and 24 feet wide. I played keeper in high school using those dimension and while it sounds big, it can get surprisingly small when the action is right in front of it.

As for your theory that a wider net means more goals should be scored, that's not quite right. Shots must be accurate for that to happen and with the more prolific forwards, this is often the case. For lesser players, this becomes a problem as many of their shots either go off target (missing the goal completely) or get blocked by opposing players or the opposing keeper. This isn't even discounting just how good or bad a defending team is vs how good or bad an attacking team is. If the defense is bad, but the attack is good then yes you're going to get a goalfest. If the defense great, but the attack is poor then yes you're going to be looking at 0-0, 1-0 or something like that. If both defenses and both attacks are good, then you have a thriller on your hands...I'm talking 2-3, 3-1, 4-4 scorelines etc.

As for the ability of the goalkeepers themselves. They rely primarily on their reflexes, just as hockey goalies do. The big difference is that a keeper must command a larger area, not just the goal mouth. They often can be seen higher up just outside of their box, barking out orders to their defenders.

In PK shootouts, it's essentially a guessing game so you're right in that regard. It is a bit more complex than that though. Some keepers are just able to "read" the PK-takers body language and base their guess off of that. This is also something that the PK-taker does as well. If the keeper gives them even the slightest idea of which direction they are going, the attacker can choose to go the opposite direction. So as much as it is a guessing game, it's also a bit of a battle of wits.

I'm not trying to say the keepers aren't good at what they do. I'm just saying that 8 x 24 net means there is only so much that it is physically possible for a person to do. They can cut down angles with positioning, and obviously the rules of where and when a player can shoot, as well as the actions of the defense, come into play. But as shown by the shootouts, when it comes down to it, there is a point at which no amount of speed or quickness of reflexes can help. I am not a soccer fan, so I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that many soccer games end with pretty low scores. I have always found that odd considering the size of the net.

While a hockey goalie has some of the same issues, they are almost always in a position where, if they had quick enough reflexes, it's possible for them to reach the spot the puck is in. In soccer, in the right situation, the goalie simply cannot cover the entire net; as in the shootout.

It doesn't make the sport bad (although I don't like it, it's not based solely on the size of the goals and relatively low scoring) it's just something that seems to put your praise of the shooting skills of soccer players in question. If you were trying to point out the very best, rather than the average, it's a different proposition.

Keepers try to concentrate on where they think the ball will be based on its flight pattern. That's how they're able to cover large spaces within the goal. Tactical anticipation basically. The best in the game, guys like Buffon, Casillas, Neuer etc have mastered this facet of their role and while also commanding their backline. As a result, these guys concede far less goals than other teams. The situation in which a keeper has no chance is with perfectly placed strikes from an attacker to simply unreachable parts of the goal. These types of goals are pretty rare, but very spectacular when scored. The difference though is that they are scored by players of all types of levels from nobodies to Messi.

As for low-scoring...Americans are not used to 1-goal=1-point sports. We're used to multiple points award for singular actions: Touchdowns, 3-pointers, bases-loaded home runs etc. When they take that mentality and try to apply it to soccer, it simply doesn't hash. I will also say that it depends on what teams are playing and what league they're in. The best teams rarely win 1-0 or draw 0-0. They have too much attacking talent for that. Every league has games that are just downright boring, but some have more than others. For instance, the Belgian league is extremely boring and if you base incorrect assertions off of what you see there, of course you'll hate soccer. Watch the right teams, the right leagues and the right players and the game can be seen in a very different light.

 

[Unkotare]

Also though, fatigue is going to be an issue in any sport. Even in basketball...

Wait, what? "Even" in basketball?

???