Minimum Wage Reform?

[shintao]

you said it well.....

living wage = entitlement

So you believe the market determines wages? When Wall Street, the stock market was handed a trillion dollars, did you see wages jump through the sky as well?? Or did wages remain the same? So don't spread lies, he didn't say it well, and he didn't tell the truth.

He goes on to provide an example of a poor wage family living beyond their means. Did the market give them the means, in which case it had nothing to do with wages. So he didn't say it well after-all.

And why wouldn't it be "predatory lending or it's the bank's fault for granting credit. " ? Did the people rob the bank, or water-board the bank execs to give them a loan. Totally ridiculous!!! And you think he said it well. You are losing any credibility you had!!

Do you really think Wall Street is the sole "market"....? Does your local tradesman run to Wall Street to ask how much to charge for each of his items...? Or how much to pay his employees...? You have never run a business...have you...?

Regarding the family example....they were living beyond their means and were in debt....and not because they were lacking in the basic necessities to live....why should we feel sorry for people who do that....? Nobody forced them to go broke....they did it to themselves....how can a bank be predatory if YOU don't sign their loan to buy stuff you can't afford?...did the bank force their hands to sign?....yet you think everybody else should pay for these people because they are "poor"...because they are "entitled" to have a "living wage" that will pay for all the extras...

You are the one whose credibility is sorely lacking...

Now you have really lost your ass dude. Show where wages went up in the last ten years due to market forces? Show where wages paced the GNP of America? You capitalists are so full of bullshit, we should have a fat fucker hoilday and serve you for dinner. Whats a fucking trillion dollars ??? Did that raise wages ?

Did the bank make the loans? LMAO!! You are really dumb dude. No credibility at all!!! LMAO!!!

 

[shintao]

We raised minimum wage...and the price of everything went up...

If we raise it to $20 per hour, prices will go up to match and those folks will be in the same position they are today.

In the socialist world the living wage and product pricing is regulated so wherever you go in the country the same wages and prices are set.


You notice when the health industry attempted to jack up the health care premiums, the gov. stepped in and made them justify the increase. If they can not do that, the cost will remain the same.

No.. You are incorrect. This is "price" control. Not cost control.
The costs always rise. By controlling price, the end result is rationing.
Very simple.
Let's take gasoline for example.
Let's say the pump price is $3.00 per gallon. The producer, refiner and distributor have costs. In order for them to make a profit on the gas the price has to be $3.00 per gallon.
SO everyone is happy. Except for some politicians. They get together and say " we think the price of gas is too high. People are complaining. So we will from this day forward set the maximum price at $2.00 per gallon.
So here's what happens. Because the three entities mentioned above now must produce refine and sell gas at a loss, they have lay off workers involved in the process. The result is a shortage of gas. Finding it very difficult or even impossible to buy gas ,people are finding themselves limited on mobility and are struggling to get to work.
See where this is going?
Unless the federal government tears up the US Constitution and then passes a law nationalizing the oil industry and of course commandeers every single gas station across the country..And THEN finds a way to harvest oil at a cost that allows the government to at least break even, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN....
So the same with wages.
Socialism ALWAYS fails. ALWAYS."The socialist world".....Get the fuck out of here.
Hey genius. Ya want to know how people can earn your precious living wage? They need to get a job, learn the skills that will allow them to be promoted to a higher paying job.

Your gas example doesn't hold water, because prices are artificially raised on a whim by the corporations, laying off workers, shutting down businesses, collapsing the economy, all so board members can make more profits as buyers use less gasoline.

Hmm, looks like capitalism failed dude. Socialism is working great, SS, welfare, unemployment, NHC starting, no complaints. And capitalism isn't doing to bad, trillions in debt, rich wall street & bankers, millions will no jobs, out sourcing, businesses leaving, corporations not creating jobs, hiring illegals. LOL!! CAPITALISM ALWAYS FAILS...............

 

[shintao]

Government has NO business mandating wages. the market determines wages.
Minimum wage is NOT a living wage. Living wage and minimum wage are mutually exclusive.
The min wage actually contributes to unemployment among low or unskilled labor.
Those that think of "living" wage in terms of what is required to provide for living expenses( necessities only) are spot on. Those that ignore the reality that luxuries such as pay tv, memberships to gyms, expensive haircuts, new cars, going out to eat every week, etc, are not necessities are being unrealistic.
I worked in a career that took me into people's homes. I was taken aback by the percentage of people who live far beyond their means.
One glaring example was this couple. He was a corrections officer in a county jail. That is a public sector job. The wife worked as a receptionist for a chiropractic office.
I was interested because here these people were living in a larger and more costly home than mine in the same subdivision. Two of the rooms had NO furniture in them. I instinctively thought "house poor".
I guesstimated her wage at about $10 per hour. I looked up HIS salary on the internet. For new jailers in that county the wage was $29k per year.
So here I was looking at a couple with two kids making half the money that my wife and I made and they had a larger home and newer vehicles.
Typical case of people living far beyond their means.
These are the same people the Left weeps for when they run out of money. It's always someone else's fault. It's the predatory lending or it's the bank's fault for granting credit. Or it's an "expectation" of lifestyle rather than working one's way up to a lifestyle.
The point here is opposition to the idea that wages are too low for the least skilled. They aren't. The problem is far too many people expecting things. The feeling of entitlement to a certain lifestyle.
Just about anyone can have whatever they want if they have been granted credit to buy it.
What they don't think about is the amount of income vs their expectations.
I have about $3,000 in credit card debt which I could liquidate right now. But I do not wish to use up a good amount liquid cash. I double up or even triple up payments which all but eliminates the interest. CC Interest only affects accounts where the borrower pays the minimum each month.
Now, I expect the argument that "what about the people who can't pay more than the minimum"...Too bad. Should not have gotten themselves in that position in the first place.
So, what is a living wage anyway? Is it one that pays for our necessities? Or a wage that pays for what we want?

sniff............

Why did you not answer the questions?
"Sniff"? That's all you got?
It figures. Another cut and run from the issues lib.
You're not even worthy of the pigeon shit on that park bench.
You friggin slimy assed socialist test tube baby.
Now hear this.....SOCIALISM SUCKS SIDEWAYS.
Half the fucking people on earth are trying to move to the United States to get away from socialism and you cock suckers want to bring the socialism disease here.

You were not adressing me, but I went out in sympathy for you, dumb fuck. CAPITALISM ALWAYS FAILS............
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[ScreamingEagle]

So you believe the market determines wages? When Wall Street, the stock market was handed a trillion dollars, did you see wages jump through the sky as well?? Or did wages remain the same? So don't spread lies, he didn't say it well, and he didn't tell the truth.

He goes on to provide an example of a poor wage family living beyond their means. Did the market give them the means, in which case it had nothing to do with wages. So he didn't say it well after-all.

And why wouldn't it be "predatory lending or it's the bank's fault for granting credit. " ? Did the people rob the bank, or water-board the bank execs to give them a loan. Totally ridiculous!!! And you think he said it well. You are losing any credibility you had!!

Do you really think Wall Street is the sole "market"....? Does your local tradesman run to Wall Street to ask how much to charge for each of his items...? Or how much to pay his employees...? You have never run a business...have you...?

Regarding the family example....they were living beyond their means and were in debt....and not because they were lacking in the basic necessities to live....why should we feel sorry for people who do that....? Nobody forced them to go broke....they did it to themselves....how can a bank be predatory if YOU don't sign their loan to buy stuff you can't afford?...did the bank force their hands to sign?....yet you think everybody else should pay for these people because they are "poor"...because they are "entitled" to have a "living wage" that will pay for all the extras...

You are the one whose credibility is sorely lacking...

Now you have really lost your ass dude. Show where wages went up in the last ten years due to market forces? Show where wages paced the GNP of America? You capitalists are so full of bullshit, we should have a fat fucker hoilday and serve you for dinner. Whats a fucking trillion dollars ??? Did that raise wages ?

Did the bank make the loans? LMAO!! You are really dumb dude. No credibility at all!!! LMAO!!!

I never said wages went up in the last ten years...

Never said wages paced the GNP either...

You assume too much....I don't think the govt. should have handed Wall Street a trillion....

You also assume that if the govt. forces "living wages" that somehow the market will magically correct itself....

....Obama ripped off another trillion to kick start the market and create jobs....how's that working out for ya...?

As for the banks... i don't know what your hyena laughter is about.....i believe you've gone nutso...

 

[thereisnospoon]

In the socialist world the living wage and product pricing is regulated so wherever you go in the country the same wages and prices are set.


You notice when the health industry attempted to jack up the health care premiums, the gov. stepped in and made them justify the increase. If they can not do that, the cost will remain the same.

No.. You are incorrect. This is "price" control. Not cost control.
The costs always rise. By controlling price, the end result is rationing.
Very simple.
Let's take gasoline for example.
Let's say the pump price is $3.00 per gallon. The producer, refiner and distributor have costs. In order for them to make a profit on the gas the price has to be $3.00 per gallon.
SO everyone is happy. Except for some politicians. They get together and say " we think the price of gas is too high. People are complaining. So we will from this day forward set the maximum price at $2.00 per gallon.
So here's what happens. Because the three entities mentioned above now must produce refine and sell gas at a loss, they have lay off workers involved in the process. The result is a shortage of gas. Finding it very difficult or even impossible to buy gas ,people are finding themselves limited on mobility and are struggling to get to work.
See where this is going?
Unless the federal government tears up the US Constitution and then passes a law nationalizing the oil industry and of course commandeers every single gas station across the country..And THEN finds a way to harvest oil at a cost that allows the government to at least break even, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN....
So the same with wages.
Socialism ALWAYS fails. ALWAYS."The socialist world".....Get the fuck out of here.
Hey genius. Ya want to know how people can earn your precious living wage? They need to get a job, learn the skills that will allow them to be promoted to a higher paying job.

Your gas example doesn't hold water, because prices are artificially raised on a whim by the corporations, laying off workers, shutting down businesses, collapsing the economy, all so board members can make more profits as buyers use less gasoline.

Hmm, looks like capitalism failed dude. Socialism is working great, SS, welfare, unemployment, NHC starting, no complaints. And capitalism isn't doing to bad, trillions in debt, rich wall street & bankers, millions will no jobs, out sourcing, businesses leaving, corporations not creating jobs, hiring illegals. LOL!! CAPITALISM ALWAYS FAILS...............

Capitalism always fails..Ok, then walk the walk.
Surrender your possessions. Everything you worked for. Donate your home to the poor. Surrender your wealth. Empty your bank account and scatter the cash on the street.
You people are full of shit.
Of course the gasoline example is valid. It's simple economics. You do not understand? Not surprising for a rocket scientist such as yourself.

You and those that think the way do have not a chance in remaking ( destroying) this country in your image.
Try it. How fast can you count to two?
Not a threat. A promise.

 

[shintao]

you said it well.....

living wage = entitlement

So you believe the market determines wages? When Wall Street, the stock market was handed a trillion dollars, did you see wages jump through the sky as well?? Or did wages remain the same? So don't spread lies, he didn't say it well, and he didn't tell the truth.

He goes on to provide an example of a poor wage family living beyond their means. Did the market give them the means, in which case it had nothing to do with wages. So he didn't say it well after-all.

And why wouldn't it be "predatory lending or it's the bank's fault for granting credit. " ? Did the people rob the bank, or water-board the bank execs to give them a loan. Totally ridiculous!!! And you think he said it well. You are losing any credibility you had!!

Chuck duck dive....Nice try. You're all over with, dopey.
And yes, the market DOES indeed determine wages. The living wage calculator for which you provided a link states that fact very clearly.

Obviously the market does not decide wages, as there has been no increases in the last ten years while profits have soared. You must be one blind ---------- or your talking out your ass. Show wages corresponding to market forces? You can't, and the reason is because your blowing bullshit out your butt. Corporations are setting on a trillions dollars, so where is the wage increases?? Hmm?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

So you believe the market determines wages? When Wall Street, the stock market was handed a trillion dollars, did you see wages jump through the sky as well?? Or did wages remain the same? So don't spread lies, he didn't say it well, and he didn't tell the truth.

He goes on to provide an example of a poor wage family living beyond their means. Did the market give them the means, in which case it had nothing to do with wages. So he didn't say it well after-all.

And why wouldn't it be "predatory lending or it's the bank's fault for granting credit. " ? Did the people rob the bank, or water-board the bank execs to give them a loan. Totally ridiculous!!! And you think he said it well. You are losing any credibility you had!!

Chuck duck dive....Nice try. You're all over with, dopey.
And yes, the market DOES indeed determine wages. The living wage calculator for which you provided a link states that fact very clearly.

Obviously the market does not decide wages, as there has been no increases in the last years while profits have soared. You must be one blind ---------- or your talking out your ass. Show wages corresponding to market forces? You can't, and the reason is because your blowing bullshit out your butt. Corporations are setting on a trillions dollars, so where is the wage increases?? Hmm?

I thought you said corporations were going broke and the govt. was bailing them out....

 

[The T]

Chuck duck dive....Nice try. You're all over with, dopey.
And yes, the market DOES indeed determine wages. The living wage calculator for which you provided a link states that fact very clearly.

Obviously the market does not decide wages, as there has been no increases in the last years while profits have soared. You must be one blind ---------- or your talking out your ass. Show wages corresponding to market forces? You can't, and the reason is because your blowing bullshit out your butt. Corporations are setting on a trillions dollars, so where is the wage increases?? Hmm?

I thought you said corporations were going broke and the govt. was bailing them out....

Shintao doesn't live here in the US...so I have no idea why he/she/it is on an American Message board other than to stir up shit.

 

[shintao]

Do you really think Wall Street is the sole "market"....? Does your local tradesman run to Wall Street to ask how much to charge for each of his items...? Or how much to pay his employees...? You have never run a business...have you...?

Regarding the family example....they were living beyond their means and were in debt....and not because they were lacking in the basic necessities to live....why should we feel sorry for people who do that....? Nobody forced them to go broke....they did it to themselves....how can a bank be predatory if YOU don't sign their loan to buy stuff you can't afford?...did the bank force their hands to sign?....yet you think everybody else should pay for these people because they are "poor"...because they are "entitled" to have a "living wage" that will pay for all the extras...

You are the one whose credibility is sorely lacking...

Now you have really lost your ass dude. Show where wages went up in the last ten years due to market forces? Show where wages paced the GNP of America? You capitalists are so full of bullshit, we should have a fat fucker hoilday and serve you for dinner. Whats a fucking trillion dollars ??? Did that raise wages ?

Did the bank make the loans? LMAO!! You are really dumb dude. No credibility at all!!! LMAO!!!

I never said wages went up in the last ten years...

Never said wages paced the GNP either...

You assume too much....I don't think the govt. should have handed Wall Street a trillion....

You also assume that if the govt. forces "living wages" that somehow the market will magically correct itself....

....Obama ripped off another trillion to kick start the market and create jobs....how's that working out for ya...?

As for the banks... i don't know what your hyena laughter is about.....i believe you've gone nutso...

No, you said the market determines wages, which it clearly does not, because if it did the Trillion corporations are setting on would hire more workers.

Now you are really off if you think capitalism is working for workers, and the very reason I suggest a living wage, not a minimum wage. Afterall, people actually work to "live," not to slide by like slugs on wet grass. A living wage will put more people to work, and it is only a regulatory tool like coffee breaks, or overtime hours, or safety issues, etc. So no reason to panic and send out the hounds. If you think it through, you can see more people working means more taxes paid in, and you not paying taxes for the unemployed and welfare who get jobs.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Now you have really lost your ass dude. Show where wages went up in the last ten years due to market forces? Show where wages paced the GNP of America? You capitalists are so full of bullshit, we should have a fat fucker hoilday and serve you for dinner. Whats a fucking trillion dollars ??? Did that raise wages ?

Did the bank make the loans? LMAO!! You are really dumb dude. No credibility at all!!! LMAO!!!

I never said wages went up in the last ten years...

Never said wages paced the GNP either...

You assume too much....I don't think the govt. should have handed Wall Street a trillion....

You also assume that if the govt. forces "living wages" that somehow the market will magically correct itself....

....Obama ripped off another trillion to kick start the market and create jobs....how's that working out for ya...?

As for the banks... i don't know what your hyena laughter is about.....i believe you've gone nutso...

No, you said the market determines wages, which it clearly does not, because if it did the Trillion corporations are setting on would hire more workers.

Now you are really off if you think capitalism is working for workers, and the very reason I suggest a living wage, not a minimum wage. Afterall, people actually work to "live," not to slide by like slugs on wet grass. A living wage will put more people to work, and it is only a regulatory tool like coffee breaks, or overtime hours, or safety issues, etc. So no reason to panic and send out the hounds. If you think it through, you can see more people working means more taxes paid in, and you not paying taxes for the unemployed and welfare who get jobs.

Corporations are sitting on their money today because they are unsure of what Big Brother has in store for them...

Show us a comparable country where they have both a govt. madated "living wage" and a booming economy...

 

[thereisnospoon]

I never said wages went up in the last ten years...

Never said wages paced the GNP either...

You assume too much....I don't think the govt. should have handed Wall Street a trillion....

You also assume that if the govt. forces "living wages" that somehow the market will magically correct itself....

....Obama ripped off another trillion to kick start the market and create jobs....how's that working out for ya...?

As for the banks... i don't know what your hyena laughter is about.....i believe you've gone nutso...

No, you said the market determines wages, which it clearly does not, because if it did the Trillion corporations are setting on would hire more workers.

Now you are really off if you think capitalism is working for workers, and the very reason I suggest a living wage, not a minimum wage. Afterall, people actually work to "live," not to slide by like slugs on wet grass. A living wage will put more people to work, and it is only a regulatory tool like coffee breaks, or overtime hours, or safety issues, etc. So no reason to panic and send out the hounds. If you think it through, you can see more people working means more taxes paid in, and you not paying taxes for the unemployed and welfare who get jobs.

Corporations are sitting on their money today because they are unsure of what Big Brother has in store for them...

Show us a comparable country where they have both a govt. madated "living wage" and a booming economy...

I asked shitno to answer some siimple questions regarding how his idea of a living wage would be funded.
No answers. Just angry rhetoric laced with obfuscation.
Trust me. You ask this peckerhead a question that pins him in a corner where he must explain himself and you'll get the same old bullshit.
Shitno is what I call "free entertainment".

 

[shintao]

Obviously the market does not decide wages, as there has been no increases in the last years while profits have soared. You must be one blind ---------- or your talking out your ass. Show wages corresponding to market forces? You can't, and the reason is because your blowing bullshit out your butt. Corporations are setting on a trillions dollars, so where is the wage increases?? Hmm?

I thought you said corporations were going broke and the govt. was bailing them out....

Shintao doesn't live here in the US...so I have no idea why he/she/it is on an American Message board other than to stir up shit.

T lives in Norway........so I have no idea why he is off his fish catching message board, other than to troll for cock. He will have to tell the story about how him and Livingston learned the ol soft shoe in the Reagan airport restroom stall............

 

[The T]

I thought you said corporations were going broke and the govt. was bailing them out....

Shintao doesn't live here in the US...so I have no idea why he/she/it is on an American Message board other than to stir up shit.

T lives in Norway........so I have no idea why he is off his fish catching message board, other than to troll for cock. He will have to tell the story about how him and Livingston learned the ol soft shoe in the Reagan airport restroom stall............

Yah...Yah...shuure...shuure...

You dolt.

 

[shintao]

No, you said the market determines wages, which it clearly does not, because if it did the Trillion corporations are setting on would hire more workers.

Now you are really off if you think capitalism is working for workers, and the very reason I suggest a living wage, not a minimum wage. Afterall, people actually work to "live," not to slide by like slugs on wet grass. A living wage will put more people to work, and it is only a regulatory tool like coffee breaks, or overtime hours, or safety issues, etc. So no reason to panic and send out the hounds. If you think it through, you can see more people working means more taxes paid in, and you not paying taxes for the unemployed and welfare who get jobs.

Corporations are sitting on their money today because they are unsure of what Big Brother has in store for them...

Show us a comparable country where they have both a govt. madated "living wage" and a booming economy...

I asked shitno to answer some siimple questions regarding how his idea of a living wage would be funded.
No answers. Just angry rhetoric laced with obfuscation.
Trust me. You ask this peckerhead a question that pins him in a corner where he must explain himself and you'll get the same old bullshit.
Shitno is what I call "free entertainment".

Wait a minute dude. I answered that, and you don't read a thread before you start mouthing off. Go read the thread!!

Trust me folks, this guy lies like rug. Sniff, I feel sorry for him. I'd help him out,...which way did he come in?

 

[shintao]

Shintao doesn't live here in the US...so I have no idea why he/she/it is on an American Message board other than to stir up shit.

T lives in Norway........so I have no idea why he is off his fish catching message board, other than to troll for cock. He will have to tell the story about how him and Livingston learned the ol soft shoe in the Reagan airport restroom stall............

Yah...Yah...shuure...shuure...

You dolt.

Ya tap dancing fool!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

No, you said the market determines wages, which it clearly does not, because if it did the Trillion corporations are setting on would hire more workers.

Now you are really off if you think capitalism is working for workers, and the very reason I suggest a living wage, not a minimum wage. Afterall, people actually work to "live," not to slide by like slugs on wet grass. A living wage will put more people to work, and it is only a regulatory tool like coffee breaks, or overtime hours, or safety issues, etc. So no reason to panic and send out the hounds. If you think it through, you can see more people working means more taxes paid in, and you not paying taxes for the unemployed and welfare who get jobs.

Corporations are sitting on their money today because they are unsure of what Big Brother has in store for them...

Show us a comparable country where they have both a govt. madated "living wage" and a booming economy...

I asked shitno to answer some siimple questions regarding how his idea of a living wage would be funded.
No answers. Just angry rhetoric laced with obfuscation.
Trust me. You ask this peckerhead a question that pins him in a corner where he must explain himself and you'll get the same old bullshit.
Shitno is what I call "free entertainment".

I know....very few straight answers....round and round it goes....he obviously can't answer my last question so i'm calling it a night....

....and another win for our side....

 

[The T]

T lives in Norway........so I have no idea why he is off his fish catching message board, other than to troll for cock. He will have to tell the story about how him and Livingston learned the ol soft shoe in the Reagan airport restroom stall............

Yah...Yah...shuure...shuure...

You dolt.

Ya tap dancing fool!!!!!!!!!!!

Uh-huh...Caught. Now? As a matter of courtesy?

Get lost poseur.

 

[shintao]

Yah...Yah...shuure...shuure...

You dolt.

Ya tap dancing fool!!!!!!!!!!!

Uh-huh...Caught. Now? As a matter of courtesy?

Get lost poseur.

Don't worry! I won't be in the restroom with you and Livingston, liar.

 

[shintao]

Corporations are sitting on their money today because they are unsure of what Big Brother has in store for them...

Show us a comparable country where they have both a govt. madated "living wage" and a booming economy...

I asked shitno to answer some siimple questions regarding how his idea of a living wage would be funded.
No answers. Just angry rhetoric laced with obfuscation.
Trust me. You ask this peckerhead a question that pins him in a corner where he must explain himself and you'll get the same old bullshit.
Shitno is what I call "free entertainment".

I know....very few straight answers....round and round it goes....he obviously can't answer my last question so i'm calling it a night....

....and another win for our side....

Do you really feel like you won something? LMAO!!!! If it was based on answering, your whole side lost their ass!!!!!!!!!! LMAO!! Come back and play Loser!!! Hey! I'm here Loser!! Give it your best shot!!! Geeze, I hate to see grown cowards cry like this.

 

[JBeukema]

We raised minimum wage...and the price of everything went up...

If we raise it to $20 per hour, prices will go up to match and those folks will be in the same position they are today.

Hey, the CEOs need those new Mercedes