Minimum Wage Question for Food Service Workers

[kaz]

It is discretionary, not mandatory. If an establishment forces it on you, refuse to pay it.

Good luck with that. Expect to have the police called and be arrested for theft. Establishments that auto-grat for larger parties include that information in the menus. You are informed, you have accepted responsibility for the charge, refusal to pay constitutes theft.

I've never seen that in the US or Europe

 

[The Irish Ram]

You're free to dine somewhere else. It's on the menu. If you don't want to accept the charges they've made you aware from the beginning of your dining experience, then don't. You can get up and leave. But once you order and partake in the goods and services, you are responsible for paying the prices that were informed of at the beginning.

And it has nothing to do with being politically correct. It's simple business. The restaurants don't want your business at the expense of losing their staff due to your being a douche bag.

If it's on the menu, then write your response on the menu and walk out.
Want to keep your staff, then pay your staff. Don't transfer that obligation on to me because I want a meal.

So, this shows that you really have no intention of tipping your servers. Okay, fine. Stay home and cook yourself. You're not entitled to the food at the restaurant. Either you pay, or you go somewhere else. They'll happily serve your party of 10 for reasonable menu prices, and an 18% automatic gratuity that will be applied to the bill. Or you can go home. It's called freedom, and it's what makes America great.

What a stupid conclusion to jump to and an erroneous one at that. It is the lack of freedom I have no intention of buying into. I have always tipped above the norm.
It is my prerogative, and I think it's a job that warrants a little extra, even if the service wasn't that great. When it is great, I tip even more. So, if it's ok with you, I'll determine my contribution, not you. It is not your place to spend my money.
It's the mandatory part that I don't agree with. It is a form of theft by a business owner that wants you to subsidize their pay scale. Tipping isn't the law, it is a gratuity and no business should be able to insist I not only leave a gift, but go on to determine the amount of the gift I am required to leave. I don't do it to my patrons, and don't want it done to me.

 

[g5000]

Look at a mandatory tip as part of the price. If the banquet cost $5000, and the mandatory tip is $1000, then the REAL price of the banquet is $6000, not $5000. Just look at it that way going in and your damned overly sensitive feathers won't be ruffled.

 

[kaz]

You're free to dine somewhere else. It's on the menu. If you don't want to accept the charges they've made you aware from the beginning of your dining experience, then don't. You can get up and leave. But once you order and partake in the goods and services, you are responsible for paying the prices that were informed of at the beginning.

And it has nothing to do with being politically correct. It's simple business. The restaurants don't want your business at the expense of losing their staff due to your being a douche bag.

If it's on the menu, then write your response on the menu and walk out.
Want to keep your staff, then pay your staff. Don't transfer that obligation on to me because I want a meal.

So, this shows that you really have no intention of tipping your servers. Okay, fine. Stay home and cook yourself. You're not entitled to the food at the restaurant. Either you pay, or you go somewhere else. They'll happily serve your party of 10 for reasonable menu prices, and an 18% automatic gratuity that will be applied to the bill. Or you can go home. It's called freedom, and it's what makes America great.

Um ... government deciding all that is what you call "freedom?"

 

[SwimExpert]

It is discretionary, not mandatory. If an establishment forces it on you, refuse to pay it.

Good luck with that. Expect to have the police called and be arrested for theft. Establishments that auto-grat for larger parties include that information in the menus. You are informed, you have accepted responsibility for the charge, refusal to pay constitutes theft.

I've never seen that in the US or Europe

That's because most people aren't dumb enough to try stupid stunts like that. I've seen it once or twice when people have tried to object to it. Typically a manager will discuss with them whether there were actual issues with the service, and if there were legitimate concerns will discount the ticket to compensate the guest, and retain the auto-grat. A good manager worth his salt won't remove the auto-grat though, unless there was something truly horrible.

I've also seen customers who try to scribble out the part of the credit card receipt that shows the auto-grat and write in a lesser amount. But it gets ignored.

 

[kaz]

It is discretionary, not mandatory. If an establishment forces it on you, refuse to pay it.

Good luck with that. Expect to have the police called and be arrested for theft. Establishments that auto-grat for larger parties include that information in the menus. You are informed, you have accepted responsibility for the charge, refusal to pay constitutes theft.

I've never seen that in the US or Europe

That's because most people aren't dumb enough to try stupid stunts like that. I've seen it once or twice when people have tried to object to it. Typically a manager will discuss with them whether there were actual issues with the service, and if there were legitimate concerns will discount the ticket to compensate the guest, and retain the auto-grat. A good manager worth his salt won't remove the auto-grat though, unless there was something truly horrible.

I've also seen customers who try to scribble out the part of the credit card receipt that shows the auto-grat and write in a lesser amount. But it gets ignored.

I haven't tried to have the auto-tip removed, but locals told me you could. I agree though you would need to justify it.

Large party gratuities probably would be particularly hard to remove.

 

[SwimExpert]

Um ... government deciding all that is what you call "freedom?"

Who said anything about the government? You decide to go to a restaurant, you make the choice to partake in services and goods at prices provided to you, you're the one making the decision.

 

[kaz]

Um ... government deciding all that is what you call "freedom?"

Who said anything about the government? You decide to go to a restaurant, you make the choice to partake in services and goods at prices provided to you, you're the one making the decision.

OK, so you're talking about the restaurant requiring the 18%, not the government?

 

[prison/con.net]

it's the GOVT forcing them to pay laborers the minimum wage, tho. So STOP ducking the issue!

 

[prison/con.net]

if you can't afford the banquet, dont have one. It's a pretty simple concept, really

 

[SwimExpert]

I haven't tried to have the auto-tip removed, but locals told me you could. I agree though you would need to justify it.

Large party gratuities probably would be particularly hard to remove.

As far as restaurants go (at least in the US), auto-grats only typically apply when it's a matter of a large party, or perhaps special occasions. I've worked places where special occasions might have a set menu. For example, I once worked at a nice restaurant where Valentine's Day, Thanksgiving, and New Year's Eve had special set menus, and an 18% auto-grat was included for that day's special menu. I've never seen a restaurant that indiscriminately auto-grats every customer.

As a server, I found that with large parties it was always best to waive the auto-grat if everyone was paying individually. By the time 10 people all round up to the nearest dollar, or nearest bill denomination, you typically make out better, even if there's that one person who stiffs you or short changes you. If only one person is paying for the entire group, it's best to auto-grat, and to also make sure to point it out to when you present the ticket. When you leave someone to their own devices to come up with a tip for a $200-$300 ticket, they're more likely to either react with sticker shock or to begrudge 18%-20% more and talk themselves into feeling okay shaving a bit off, so you'll almost always get less than what the auto-grat would have been. On the other hand, if you point out the auto-grat to them, it reenforces their positive feelings about you, because you're being honest and honorable, so you stand a good chance that they'll add in an additional tip on top of it.

 

[SwimExpert]

What a stupid conclusion to jump to and an erroneous one at that. It is the lack of freedom I have no intention of buying into. I have always tipped above the norm.
It is my prerogative, and I think it's a job that warrants a little extra, even if the service wasn't that great. When it is great, I tip even more. So, if it's ok with you, I'll determine my contribution, not you. It is not your place to spend my money.
It's the mandatory part that I don't agree with. It is a form of theft by a business owner that wants you to subsidize their pay scale. Tipping isn't the law, it is a gratuity and no business should be able to insist I not only leave a gift, but go on to determine the amount of the gift I am required to leave. I don't do it to my patrons, and don't want it done to me.

So you tip "above" the norm, but you have a huge problem with it being partway filled in for you already. If you intend to tip over 18% for a large party, then just add in the extra. Why are you going to feign righteous indignation about something that you claim you want to do.

Yes, a business has the right to insist on an automatic gratuity being added to the bill. As long as they give you fair notice, they can insist whatever they want be added to the bill. If they want to charge you $500 for a side of fries, that's their right. If they put it on the menu as such, then you can either choose to spend the $500 or you can choose to not order their fries. This whole nonsense about "subsidizing their pay scale" makes no sense. The standard tip for service is 18%-20% for enjoyable service. You are expected to tip accordingly. Unless you are objecting to the entire institution of tipping and tip credits for server wages as a whole, then your claim that an auto-grat constitutes "subsidizing their pay scale" is absurd.

Tips are a natural part of a server's income. If you do not want to tip, then you don't want to pay for the service you've received. Would you prefer that servers make an invisible 20% commission on their sales and for the restaurant to increase the prices by that amount?

 

[Cecilie1200]

There are cash tips and tips done with credit cards that are entirely less desirable.

I nearly always tip with cash.

Me too and my bartenders would prefer that. I have to report their CC tips.

I hate the places that make their servers split tips. If I wanted to tip the guy across the room who never said a word to me, I'd go hand him some cash. I have no patience with any system that allows freeloaders to coast on someone else's hard work.

 

[SwimExpert]

I hate the places that make their servers split tips. If I wanted to tip the guy across the room who never said a word to me, I'd go hand him some cash. I have no patience with any system that allows freeloaders to coast on someone else's hard work.

It seems like a crappy way to do things, but it's actually a much better system. First reason being that it improves teamwork. If two people are working the same bar, they need to both be engaged in helping all the customers. Second, (on a similar note) sometimes two people can work together most effectively if they're doing separate tasks. For example, the last bar I was working at, I worked with a young, pretty girl with big boobs and a bubbly personality, who was great at entertaining people, but wasn't all that great when it actually came to cranking out drinks. Meanwhile, even though I'm great with guests I couldn't elicit the same good feelings from people as she could, because let's face it a bubbly girl in her mid 20s with a pretty face and big boobs has a much different effect on the majority males who pay the tabs at bars, than does a man in his 30s. But I was able to push sales better than she was, my speed was far better, my technique was far better, my knowledge was better, and my organization was better. So even though there were times when she'd piss me off because I was slammed with drinks and she was yapping, I'd let her do most of the entertaining, and I'd spend the better part of my time cranking out drinks and keeping track of our supplies, and things like that. Together, that girl and I would pull in more money than anyone else could. Aside from that, there's no good way to readily split the cash tips. You put money in a tip jar, there's no way for me to pull it out and know if you meant it for me or for Suzy Q.

Of course, that some people might not have the same work ethic and might be able to coast along is a downside, but that's usually best dealt with by letting management put a foot up their ass. The boss doesn't want them freeloading anymore than you or I do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I hate the places that make their servers split tips. If I wanted to tip the guy across the room who never said a word to me, I'd go hand him some cash. I have no patience with any system that allows freeloaders to coast on someone else's hard work.

It seems like a crappy way to do things, but it's actually a much better system. First reason being that it improves teamwork. If two people are working the same bar, they need to both be engaged in helping all the customers. Second, (on a similar note) sometimes two people can work together most effectively if they're doing separate tasks. For example, the last bar I was working at, I worked with a young, pretty girl with big boobs and a bubbly personality, who was great at entertaining people, but wasn't all that great when it actually came to cranking out drinks. Meanwhile, even though I'm great with guests I couldn't elicit the same good feelings from people as she could, because let's face it a bubbly girl in her mid 20s with a pretty face and big boobs has a much different effect on the majority males who pay the tabs at bars, than does a man in his 30s. But I was able to push sales better than she was, my speed was far better, my technique was far better, my knowledge was better, and my organization was better. So even though there were times when she'd piss me off because I was slammed with drinks and she was yapping, I'd let her do most of the entertaining, and I'd spend the better part of my time cranking out drinks and keeping track of our supplies, and things like that. Together, that girl and I would pull in more money than anyone else could. Aside from that, there's no good way to readily split the cash tips. You put money in a tip jar, there's no way for me to pull it out and know if you meant it for me or for Suzy Q.

Of course, that some people might not have the same work ethic and might be able to coast along is a downside, but that's usually best dealt with by letting management put a foot up their ass. The boss doesn't want them freeloading anymore than you or I do.

I understand why they do it. I just don't like it as a customer. What I give the server for his performance is for HIS interaction with me.

As for the management, I try to help them out by reporting both exceptionally good and egregiously bad service. Too many people just leave and never provide feedback, which means it can take longer for them to sort out which employees are which.

 

[The Irish Ram]

A tip is a gratuity, always has been, which is the opposite of a requirement. What those businesses are doing is forcing you to supplement what they pay their employees. You cannot define that as a tip. It is the employer charging you 18% more for your meal. Does your mechanic insist on a tip for his employees? Does your dentist? When you turn an appreciative reward into a forced tax, it is no longer a reward, which is what a tip is.
And as you are so quick to point out, the ones doing it make it mandatory. The question is, is it a necessary requirement? Unless you have experienced an unforgettably horrible food service, how many of you fail to leave a tip for your server? If you did that without someone making you do it, then why do we now need people making you do that?

 

[The Irish Ram]

I hate the places that make their servers split tips. If I wanted to tip the guy across the room who never said a word to me, I'd go hand him some cash. I have no patience with any system that allows freeloaders to coast on someone else's hard work.

It seems like a crappy way to do things, but it's actually a much better system. First reason being that it improves teamwork. If two people are working the same bar, they need to both be engaged in helping all the customers. Second, (on a similar note) sometimes two people can work together most effectively if they're doing separate tasks. For example, the last bar I was working at, I worked with a young, pretty girl with big boobs and a bubbly personality, who was great at entertaining people, but wasn't all that great when it actually came to cranking out drinks. Meanwhile, even though I'm great with guests I couldn't elicit the same good feelings from people as she could, because let's face it a bubbly girl in her mid 20s with a pretty face and big boobs has a much different effect on the majority males who pay the tabs at bars, than does a man in his 30s. But I was able to push sales better than she was, my speed was far better, my technique was far better, my knowledge was better, and my organization was better. So even though there were times when she'd piss me off because I was slammed with drinks and she was yapping, I'd let her do most of the entertaining, and I'd spend the better part of my time cranking out drinks and keeping track of our supplies, and things like that. Together, that girl and I would pull in more money than anyone else could. Aside from that, there's no good way to readily split the cash tips. You put money in a tip jar, there's no way for me to pull it out and know if you meant it for me or for Suzy Q.

Of course, that some people might not have the same work ethic and might be able to coast along is a downside, but that's usually best dealt with by letting management put a foot up their ass. The boss doesn't want them freeloading anymore than you or I do.

I understand why they do it. I just don't like it as a customer. What I give the server for his performance is for HIS interaction with me.

As for the management, I try to help them out by reporting both exceptionally good and egregiously bad service. Too many people just leave and never provide feedback, which means it can take longer for them to sort out which employees are which.

You are absolutely right. Why should someone who busts butt all day share their reward for good service with someone who is texting their boyfriend every other minute? It once again removes the incentive to be a productive worker, and rewards those who are not. It's like giving every kid a trophy when one actually achieved the goal. I always leave a tip, and I leave it to the one who was responsible for me enjoying my evening. I appreciate being waited on. Most of us do.

 

[Shrimpbox]

For your information swim the min employers can pay waiters and waitresses is 5.03 an hour plus tips. That is the law in Florida.

 

[SwimExpert]

For your information swim the min employers can pay waiters and waitresses is 5.03 an hour plus tips. That is the law in Florida.

Good for Florida...

 

[auditor0007]

I have no idea what a waiter makes. Nor is it any of my business. Nor is it a question I ask the waiter when he comes around to explain the daily specials.

I tip based on the price of the meal and level of service.

I usually tip based on the same things. However, does someone who happens to be serving high dollar food automatically deserve a much larger tip than someone serving cheaper food at the Waffle House?

When I'm eating at the Waffle House, I usually tip upwards to 40 to 50%, but that's pretty easy to do on a $7.50 meal. At more expensive places I'm back down to the traditional 15 to 20%.

I tend to do the same. Just because the meal is really cheap doesn't mean the waiter/waitress is working any less hard.