Military Planners Conclude the Gerald R. Ford And Its Fleet Could Be Destroyed ‘With Certainty’

[Silver Cat]

The technology to intercept or nullify these hypersonic missiles is.going to need to be invented. Regardless, the true life or death advantage is held in U.S nuclear subs.

Yes. The problem is, that with all those new electronic systems, including the new computer technology of the sound analysis, the ocean is becoming more and more transparent. And the nuclear submarines are becoming more and more vulnerable.

 

[Silver Cat]

No amount of Slavs and Chinese can defeat the United States.

Only if the USA makes proper preparation for the war. If we continue to ignore modern threats and challenges - we can be defeated.

 

[Flash]

Maybe so Flash, but Xi won't try the US, because he is not sure, yet he wants a safe bet.

Xi can defeat the US from within, especially with his man in the White House. No need to resort to military.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Xi can defeat the US from within, especially with his man in the White House. No need to resort to military.

We are safer without Trump in office.

 

[Flash]

We are safer without Trump in office.

Bullshit shit we are.

We are not safer with this piece of shit Potatohead that is owned by China and has a record of massive inflation, decreased family income, dismal economic growth and massive artifical energy prices.

Just look at his failure in Afghanistan and how the asshole is letting tens of millions of the goddamn Illegals flood into this country and tell me we are safer with him as President than Trump.

You are an idiot.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Bullshit shit we are.

We are not safer with this piece of shit Potatohead that is owned by China and has a record of massive inflation, decreased family income, dismal economic growth and massive artifical energy prices.

Just look at his failure in Afghanistan and how the asshole is letting tens of millions of the goddamn Illegals flood into this country and tell me we are safer with him as President than Trump.

You are an idiot.

Flash, stop being emotional and look at the facts.

 

[Flash]

Flash, stop being emotional and look at the facts.

The facts are very well established you dumbass. You are in Moon Bat denial of the facts.

Crooked Hillary should be in prison for her handling of classified material while being Secretary of State. Her being let off the hook by a filthy Democrat administration because she was the Democrat's Presidential nominee is absolutely despicable. "No intent" my ass!

We have pictures of Potatohead's boxes of classified material stored in his garage. This is in addition to all the evidence of his corruption of selling influence to foreign interest.

It is deplorable that we have a two tier justice system. One in which the goddamn Negroes can get away with a major insurrection that did major destruction in 200 American cities with no penalties but Patriotic Americans are hunted down and sent to prison for a four hour protest against a blatantly stolen election. Where the shithead Democrats can get away blatant security violations and major corruption but Republicans are the subject of unjustified government harassment.

Our Republic has been stolen by Leftest shitheads. That should be of concern to everybody. If you pathetic stupid Libtard assholes think it will work out great then you are naive as hell.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Flash, this is about Trump. 'whataboutism' re: Hillary or Joe or Hunter will get you absolutely nowhere.

Trump is on tape and with photos demonstrating his guilt in all of this.

Poor language does not help your cause one little bit, thought it makes you 'feel' better.

Start make decisions with thinking and not 'feeling'.

 

[Mushroom]

Over 20 intense battles, Chinese forces sank the USS Gerald R. Ford carrier fleet with a volley of 24 hypersonic anti-ship missiles, in a simulation run on a mainstream war game software platform used by China’s military.

You know that war games can be almost completely useless, right?

As a great example, the US Naval War College for each class has a recreation of the Battle of Midway. They have been doing the scenario for every class since 1944, and never once in all that time has the US side ever won. Not once, ever. Yet we also know exactly how the real world battle turned out, and the US unquestionably won that.

 

[Mushroom]

However, China fighting from home would have a massive advantage over the US navy, it would not be able to get close to the Chinese mainland unless they could take out such threats.

There is really no reason for a fleet to get close to the coast in the first place. It is not like we use artillery from ships with a 25 mile range anymore.

And China has over 11,000 miles of coastline. It's not like they can protect all of it.

 

[Mushroom]

??? - off course they have- around 200 are in permanent readiness. - including those on SSBN's.

But their SSBNs almost lever leave the wharf.

 

[Dadoalex]

Hypersonic weapons could be “catastrophic” for the most potent aircraft carrier group in the US fleet, according to war game simulations run by a team of military planners in China.
Over 20 intense battles, Chinese forces sank the USS Gerald R. Ford carrier fleet with a volley of 24 hypersonic anti-ship missiles, in a simulation run on a mainstream war game software platform used by China’s military.
In the scenario, the US vessels are attacked after continuing to approach a China-claimed island in the South China Sea despite repeated warnings.
A paper detailing the war game was published in May by the Chinese-language Journal of Test and Measurement Technology. It is the first time the results of simulated hypersonic strikes against a US carrier group have been made public.

The researchers, led by Cao Hongsong from the North University of China, said almost every US surface vessel was shattered by the attack and eventually sank in the simulation.
The war games suggested the US carrier group – previously regarded as unsinkable by conventional weapons – could be “destroyed with certainty” by a relatively small number of hypersonic strikes, they said.

SOURCE:
Chinese scientists war-game hypersonic strike on US carrier group

I served on the Nimitz in the late 70s.
At the time it was estimated the max lifespan of the carrier in a conflict with the Soviet Union was 38 minutes. The fleet was to make sounds like a carrier to fool subs and all the training and work was to be able to launch all aircraft within 30 minutes.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There is really no reason for a fleet to get close to the coast in the first place. It is not like we use artillery from ships with a 25 mile range anymore.

And China has over 11,000 miles of coastline. It's not like they can protect all of it.

Well, they have certain weapons that mean "close" is like hundred of miles. And they can protect it all if they have enough of these weapons. The US will be the mobile force. This means the US can't attack all of the coast line, only a limited part.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Well, they have certain weapons that mean "close" is like hundred of miles. And they can protect it all if they have enough of these weapons. The US will be the mobile force. This means the US can't attack all of the coast line, only a limited part.

“He who defends everything, defends nothing”. The US and its allies can pick the time and places to attack. China needs to defend its entire coastline all the time. If China launches an attack against the US Navy, the entire world will turn against it and China’s economy will die.

 

[Mushroom]

Well, they have certain weapons that mean "close" is like hundred of miles. And they can protect it all if they have enough of these weapons. The US will be the mobile force. This means the US can't attack all of the coast line, only a limited part.

Sorry, that makes almost no sense. Care to try again?

 

[Mushroom]

“He who defends everything, defends nothing”. The US and its allies can pick the time and places to attack. China needs to defend its entire coastline all the time. If China launches an attack against the US Navy, the entire world will turn against it and China’s economy will die.

And why would they even need to attack the coast at all? That would be rather stupid, there is no point in doing that at all.

The US aircraft and long range missiles. And the wonderful thing about attacking ground targets is that they can't move. Hitting military targets like bases and logistical points is fairly simple, as they can't go anywhere. And if they want to expand that they can also strike at resource and industrial centers. It's not like China can move their mines, oil wells and refineries, pipelines, power stations, and factories.

However, things are not so simple for China, as they would literally be trying to hit a moving target. And locating ships at sea with enough precision to attack them is nowhere near as easy as a great many people seem to think. The US can sit quite a ways out to sea and attack fixed locations almost at will, but there will not be a hell of a lot that China can do in return, seeing as they would have to locate the ships with enough precision to actually target them, then have their attack actually penetrate the fleet defenses.

The coastline itself (other than bases on the coast like ports) are actually rather insignificant. And this can be seen very clearly in the Gulf War. Want a good example of how foolish the idea that frigidweirdo is proposing, look no farther than that.

In 1991, the Navy and Marines did a great job distracting Saddam as to what the intent of the US and the Coalition was after he took Kuwait. Saddam knew the reputation of the Marines, and was absolutely obsessed with the idea they would be making an amphibious landing at Kuwait City. He even had a school gym converted into a giant sand table which covered about 20 miles of coastline and where they expected the Marines to land. The Marines did a lot of the things they do when at sea, including doing several preparations for doing landings with their landing craft. They would leave the ships in their assault craft, making circles at sea then moving a few miles closer to the shore. This would repeat 3 or 4 times until they were about 10 miles out, then they would simply turn around and return to the ships. This is actually SOP for the steps before an amphibious landing (we called it "making circles in the ocean), and they did it over and over again all up and down the Kuwait coast. The next steps in that drill would have been to make a final dash towards shore, then make a final circle where they then moved from a column to an on-line orientation then land. However, right at the point where they would do that they just stopped and returned to the ships.

And for almost a month they kept up those mind games. Once even doing an actual amphibious landing and liberating one of the islands.

However, Saddam and his military were caught completely off-guard when the actual invasion came from the west, through what they all thought was unpassable desert. And as they were trying to react to that and send forces west to meet them, the Marines finally landed. At the Kuwait City airport by helicopter.

That is the thing a lot of people tend to forget about the Marines. Yes, they are famous for their amphibious landings. But they are also as well trained in airborne operations. And they have multiple helicopters (CH-53 and CH-46) in addition to the OV-22 Osprey they can use to land and take a position many miles inland. In fact, one tactic I know that has been gamed out is basically doing to China what China did to Vietnam in 1979. Use the Marines in an air mobile fashion to take a small city and airport and do as much damage as possible. Then before forces can arrive to liberate it, simply depart on their own. They could literally have China chasing their tail for weeks, doing a hell of a lot of damage with little cost. Take an airport or industrial center, tear it the hell up, then leave.

Because there is no way that China can protect everything, no more than the US could protect everything if the situation was reversed. However, the difference is that the US actually can conduct operations like that and has in the past. And China is completely incapable of doing operations like that in return.

Oh, and the sand table? My Warrant Officer was actually with the force that landed at Kuwait City, and he was one of the first to see it. It was very detailed, and laid out all of the locations of their bunkers, artillery, and other defenses. Along with what they expected the landing beaches to be and the ships involved. I got to see some pictures of he that he took and it was awe inspiring. That sand table now sits in a museum in Kuwait City about the invasion and liberation of their country.

 

[Mushroom]

“He who defends everything, defends nothing”.

That also brings to mind a quote that it is claimed Napoleon made when some of his generals showed him their plans to defend the French border. They had laid out the border between France, Germany and Belgium in detail, and described how they were going to place the army in equidistant locations so they could cover the entire border and respond to any invasion.

The Emperor looked at these plans, and said in effect "That's nice. And what do you expect to accomplish with this - prevent smuggling?" Even in the early 19th century, they knew that trying to defend an entire border or coastline was idiocy and doomed to failure. And that was in an era long before aircraft and helicopters.

 

[luiza]

At the last count the US had a dozen aircraft carriers though invariably a few of those are in dry dock for repairs,maintenance etc.
Russian Kinzhal Hypersonic Missiles at up to Mach15 would take out all of them at the same time with zero chance of any successful defence .
Presently there are no defense systems to handle that threat .
You can run simulations until the proverbial cows come home but currently that is apparently a simple and hard fact.
And allegedly Russia is up to ten years ahead in terms of the basic wherewithal to fly missiles at these speeds -- Mach12 to 15 .

 

[themirrorthief]

At the last count the US had a dozen aircraft carriers though invariably a few of those are in dry dock for repairs,maintenance etc.
Russian Kinzhal Hypersonic Missiles at up to Mach15 would take out all of them at the same time with zero chance of any successful defence .
Presently there are no defense systems to handle that threat .
You can run simulations until the proverbial cows come home but currently that is apparently a simple and hard fact.
And allegedly Russia is up to ten years ahead in terms of the basic wherewithal to fly missiles at these speeds -- Mach12 to 15 .

it doesnt matter if commie JOe gives all our weapons and ammunition to the Taliban and Ukraine.....China knows that everyman woman and child in America can be armed with a great weapon and plenty of ammo in twenty four hours if not less.....bring it on china

 

[Mushroom]

Presently there are no defense systems to handle that threat .

There is nothing magical or invincible about a "hypersonic missile". In fact, they are even easier to detect than others because for most of their flight they have to operate at a very high altitude.

And they can not operate "hypersonic" at lower altitudes. I mean, you are aware that hypersonic flight can only happen at high altitude, right? If they tried that at anywhere close to sea level they would burn up.

That is why the SR-71 could operate in excess of Mach 3. But it could only do that at altitudes of 26,000 meters (85,000 feet - 16 miles), or the air density would have destroyed it.