Military Planners Conclude the Gerald R. Ford And Its Fleet Could Be Destroyed ‘With Certainty’

[ABikerSailor]

Again....................this was a CHINESE war game, conducted by CHINESE military who published the results in a CHINESE journal.

Do you seriously think that is an accurate assessment of what would happen in a war? I don't. I think it's more propaganda than it is fact.

And, just out of curiosity, how many of you people posting on here about how China would take out a carrier have actually been on one? Me? I served a tour with VFA-131 Wildcats, and we deployed on the USS DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER and the USS GEORGE WASHINGTON.

No. Carriers aren't as easily defeated as some of you on here think. There are many layers to their defense.

 

[para bellum]

No. Carriers aren't as easily defeated as some of you on here think. There are many layers to their defense.

Anecdote. I was coming around Point Loma some years back, heading into Coronado Bay. Nice sunny say, flat as a millpond. The Stennis and a couple OHP's and Burke's were milling around out front.

As I came abreast the point, my radar swung about 120 degrees CCW. I could see Point Loma out the portside window, but my radar said I was heading for Japan, lol.

GPS was unaffected, my plotter was still working fine. But the radar was FUBAR until I was inside Coronado Bay.

 

[Kruska]

Did anyone else notice that this was a Chinese war game, ran by Chinese military and published in a Chinese journal?

OF COURSE China is going to say that they won.

US war-games have also confirmed the exact same outcome !!! And yes, I have been on several USN carriers.

 

[whitehall]

Where do they get this stuff? Back in FDR's day the FBI would be knocking on their door.

 

[Kruska]

Here’s a secret for you. Just before Midway, the Japanese war gamed the battle and had a massive victory without losses. War games are only as accurate as the assumptions they are based upon. The Chinese have never fought a modern war, their doctrines are untested and their ships are based on Russian design philosophies. No one has claimed that US carriers are unsinkable, but their task forces specialize in defense in depth making it really hard to get weapons through to the carrier.
even if the Chinese manage to sink one carrier, the USN has more, plus subs carrying land attack missiles that would destroy the PLAN in its harbors.

You believe that the PLAN wouldn't know as to where those US subs are? That the PLA and PLAAF can't intercept attack missiles?

The issue is very simple - the USA has proven numerous times after 1945, - that the moment they lose more then a 1000 soldiers they quit a war - even the ones they started.
A US carrier or even better a USN task force, beholds how many sailors and soldiers?

 

[Kruska]

It already exists.

According to who? Ukrainian claims???

Even if - China has hundreds of Hypersonic missiles already in their present inventory - and they won't just fire a single one onto an e.g. naval target either.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

No amount of Slavs and Chinese can defeat the United States.

 

[Moonglow]

According to who? Ukrainian claims???

Even if - China has hundreds of Hypersonic missiles already in their present inventory - and they won't just fire a single one onto an e.g. naval target either.

Got any proof of yer wild ass claims?

 

[Moonglow]

No amount of Slavs and Chinese can defeat the United States.

Stupid bitches have very limited invasion capacity on foreign soil via naval assault....

 

[Kruska]

Got any proof of yer wild ass claims?

Anytime far more, then you and your one liner posts.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You believe that the PLAN wouldn't know as to where those US subs are? That the PLA and PLAAF can't intercept attack missiles?

The issue is very simple - the USA has proven numerous times after 1945, - that the moment they lose more then a 1000 soldiers they quit a war - even the ones they started.
A US carrier or even better a USN task force, beholds how many sailors and soldiers?

The PLAN doesn’t know where the subs are. Subs are stealth platforms and USN subs are the quietist in the world. The first warning the Chinese would have would be the missiles crossing the horizon minutes away from the targets. That’s assuming that B-2s from Whiteman wouldn’t be sent to obliterate the harbors with conventional bombs. Or a combination of the two with TLAMs to knock out the radars and defenses and B-2s to flatten the targets. Forty thousand pound bombs from even one bomber would make a real mess of a naval base.
As for the U.S. quitting, remember the rage after 9/11? Sink a carrier and the public would demand the extermination of the PLAN and the PLAAF. It’s one thing to get tired of an apparently endless guerrilla war for no clear objective, but another entirely when a billion dollar asset like a carrier is sunk.

 

[Kruska]

The PLAN doesn’t know where the subs are. Subs are stealth platforms and USN subs are the quietist in the world. The first warning the Chinese would have would be the missiles crossing the horizon minutes away from the targets. That’s assuming that B-2s from Whiteman wouldn’t be sent to obliterate the harbors with conventional bombs. Or a combination of the two with TLAMs to knock out the radars and defenses and B-2s to flatten the targets. Forty thousand pound bombs from even one bomber would make a real mess of a naval base.
As for the U.S. quitting, remember the rage after 9/11? Sink a carrier and the public would demand the extermination of the PLAN and the PLAAF. It’s one thing to get tired of an apparently endless guerrilla war for no clear objective, but another entirely when a billion dollar asset like a carrier is sunk.

You have watched far too many war movies.
Your first sentence is already a complete joke or if you prefer a proof of "you got no idea about what you claim"

The People's Liberation Army Navy has a history of dropping in on American Navy ships and aircraft. During a 2014 US-led multinational naval exercise, the PLAN quietly slipped an electronic surveillance ship near the USS Ronald Regan aircraft carrier and its carrier strike group, presumably to scoop up electronic data.

China Has a New Detection Ship to Hunt US Navy Submarines​

www.businessinsider.com/china-has-a-new-ship-to-hunt-us-navy-submarines-2

And this just one of numerous ways to detect and track subs or naval traffic in general.

Also comparing public US outrage due to a terrorist attack on US soil - isn't comparable with with US public reaction of having lost an aircraft carrier due to e.g. having stupidly provoked China.
The Gulf of Tonkin charade might have been an easy sell in the 60'ies. - but not in 2023.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Kruska does not understand at all.

 

[Mac-7]

The technology to intercept or nullify these hypersonic missiles is.going to need to be invented. Regardless, the true life or death advantage is held in U.S nuclear subs.

Its been invented

And its being perfected and deployed

aircraft carriers have never been invulnerable and never will be

 

[AZrailwhale]

You have watched far too many war movies.
Your first sentence is already a complete joke or if you prefer a proof of "you got no idea about what you claim"

The People's Liberation Army Navy has a history of dropping in on American Navy ships and aircraft. During a 2014 US-led multinational naval exercise, the PLAN quietly slipped an electronic surveillance ship near the USS Ronald Regan aircraft carrier and its carrier strike group, presumably to scoop up electronic data.

China Has a New Detection Ship to Hunt US Navy Submarines​

www.businessinsider.com/china-has-a-new-ship-to-hunt-us-navy-submarines-2

And this just one of numerous ways to detect and track subs or naval traffic in general.

Also comparing public US outrage due to a terrorist attack on US soil - isn't comparable with with US public reaction of having lost an aircraft carrier due to e.g. having stupidly provoked China.
The Gulf of Tonkin charade might have been an easy sell in the 60'ies. - but not in 2023.

The electronic surveillance ship has the freedom of the seas just like the US navy ships do. I guarantee you that the USN had its location noted to the inch as soon as it left port. The Russians did the same thing during our cold war with them. Their "submarine detection ship" is equipped with nothing more than a passive sonar much like the converted Tuna Clippers the USN operates on all the world's oceans. US submarines are "holes in the water" as far as radiated noise goes and the USN will know where the detection ship is to the inch as soon as it leaves harbor allowing the subs to avoid it.

 

[para bellum]

I guarantee you that the USN had its location noted to the inch as soon as it left port.

Yeah, that was RIMPAC 2014. We invited China to participate for the first time ever, and they spit in our face by sending along an uninvited spy ship.

It's so typical of China. Friendly overtures are pointless- they are only read as weakness.

 

[Kruska]

The electronic surveillance ship has the freedom of the seas just like the US navy ships do. I guarantee you that the USN had its location noted to the inch as soon as it left port. The Russians did the same thing during our cold war with them. Their "submarine detection ship" is equipped with nothing more than a passive sonar much like the converted Tuna Clippers the USN operates on all the world's oceans. US submarines are "holes in the water" as far as radiated noise goes and the USN will know where the detection ship is to the inch as soon as it leaves harbor allowing the subs to avoid it.

You need to update yourself - since 2017 e.g. new radar systems have been and are being developed - on all sides. These permit detection penetration of 800m depth and more.
Compared to China - how many autonomous attack subs does the USN have? And as I had stated there are numerous other systems in place to detect and track submarines. Why do you think China build those partially artificial strong-points in the South China Sea? - those stationed antenna arrays are not just for detecting air or surface traffic, but?

Any likely USA/China confrontation will occur in the South-China-Sea and it's immediate vicinity. And China holds all the cards and advantages in that area. If as you "suggested" the US or the USN will strike Mainland China - China will inadvertently strike the US Mainland (The USA isn't playing fire with some Iraq/Iran underdog) - what would happen next, well.....

China isn't endangering or threatening the USA militarily - but the USA is playing dumb games in China's front-yard.

Anyway, just as the Tank, the Submarine has lost it's value and former advantage. same goes for an aircraft carrier if faced with a 1st Tier opponent.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

"And China holds all the cards and advantages in that area" of the South China Sea is only cognitive bias.

China, if it so much as blinks at Taiwan, will have its tongue ripped out of its head. And Xi knows it.

 

[Flash]

Just like missiles are mostly making the battle tanks in the Ukraine war kinda obsolete so can missile make surface warships obsolete.

Evolution of warfare.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Maybe so Flash, but Xi won't try the US, because he is not sure, yet he wants a safe bet.