Mental health in America

[airplanemechanic]

I'm curious what people think of this mental health thing with regards to someone's gun rights.

I'm torn between two cities on this. The first is that I believe someone who is so mentally ill that they might harm themselves or someone else with a gun should not be able to own one.

The second is that I must ask, who makes that decision? I'm a very strong 2nd amendment supporter, and feel that one should only lose their right to bear arms by committing a crime that makes it illegal for them to own one. The reason I feel this way is that I worry that it's such a grey area that one could lose their gun rights over something and they are no threat to anyone and now they can't defend themselves and they've lost a constitutional right without their day in court.

You could have someone call in on you that you are mentally ill and you get so angry about it and you lash out and then someone uses that behavior against you and says you're a threat to society you should lose your gun rights. Then that person that called in on you comes over and puts a cap in your ass because he knows you can't legally have guns so you're an easy target. It sounds far fetched but it's just one scenario that could happen where someone could be harmed by a loss of gun rights through no fault of their own.

I have a real hard time between those two areas and wonder what the input of others is over this.

 

[theHawk]

Anytime someone suggests a mental health evaluation in order to own a gun, tell them one should also be required for voting. Both are constitutional rights.

 

[Michelle420]

How many mentally ill shooters were already in therapy or on medication?

How many mentally ill shooters gave red flags signals that no one reported and had no treatment made available because of enablers and denial?

I mean is it the gun communities' fault or the mental health communities' fault?

Do gun advocates want mentally ill people to have a gun?

What if the mentally ill person was close to people you love?

That's a middle ground solution but not sure how to go about it. Definitely not some liberal-dominated solution. Middle ground cooperation.

 

[forkup]

How many mentally ill shooters were already in therapy or on medication?

How many mentally ill shooters gave red flags signals that no one reported and had no treatment made available because of enablers and denial?

I mean is it the gun communities' fault or the mental health communities' fault?

Do gun advocates want mentally ill people to have a gun?

What if the mentally ill person was close to people you love?

That's a middle ground solution but not sure how to go about it. Definitely not some liberal-dominated solution. Middle ground cooperation.

Calling it a mental health issue is a bad faith argument in my opinion. If they believed that there would be no GOP senator not in favor of red flag laws. Since it would allow people who are close to people who have mental health issues to ring an alarm.

There would be no GOP senator against background checks before carrying guns. Since it would allow for the government to assess whether or not someone has mental health or criminal background.

Instead, there is very little support for either. What it is, is a way to get out of blaming the thing responsible namely guns. by the old adage " guns don't kill people , people kill people" and then even refuse to try to not arm people who obviously shouldn't have guns.

So thousands of people die unneccesarily in the US every year, and the right can claim it's an impossible probelm to solve while actively standing in the way of anyone even atttempting to solve or even so much as reduce it in any way.

 

[forkup]

Anytime someone suggests a mental health evaluation in order to own a gun, tell them one should also be required for voting. Both are constitutional rights.

I've yet to see people die from voting. I hear about people dying by guns almost daily.

 

[sparky]

How many mentally ill shooters were already in therapy or on medication?

Fusion Center Study Finds 79% of Recent Mass Shootings Attributable to History of Mental Illness | Public Intelligence

publicintelligence.net

~S~

 

[theHawk]

I've yet to see people die from voting. I hear about people dying by guns almost daily.

Really? Because elections don’t affect things like foreign policy and war? Or forced experimental vaccine shots?

 

[miketx]

I've yet to see people die from voting. I hear about people dying by guns almost daily.

No you don't liar, you hear about people dying after being shot by a person holding a gun.

 

[Michelle420]

Calling it a mental health issue is a bad faith argument in my opinion. If they believed that there would be no GOP senator not in favor of red flag laws. Since it would allow people who are close to people who have mental health issues to ring an alarm.

There would be no GOP senator against background checks before carrying guns. Since it would allow for the government to assess whether or not someone has mental health or criminal background.

Instead, there is very little support for either. What it is, is a way to get out of blaming the thing responsible namely guns. by the old adage " guns don't kill people , people kill people" and then even refuse to try to not arm people who obviously shouldn't have guns.

So thousands of people die unneccesarily in the US every year, and the right can claim it's an impossible probelm to solve while actively standing in the way of anyone even atttempting to solve or even so much as reduce it in any way.

In my opinion, both sides need to have a middle ground to agree on. It can't be dominated by one side or the other. I liked your post.

 

[XponentialChaos]

The last guy was cutting his face for fun and torturing animals according to people who know him.

Would we approve of that person owning a gun? I have to hope we wouldn’t. Wherever the grey line is, the latest incident is past it imo.

 

[airplanemechanic]

The last guy was cutting his face for fun and torturing animals according to people who know him.

Would we approve of that person owning a gun? I have to hope we wouldn’t. Wherever the grey line is, the latest incident is past it imo.

So if someone wants to cut their face, they forfeit their right to own a firearm? What if they cut it real bad while shaving, but someone reports them as being mentally ill? The harming animals thing is a crime which would remove their right to own a firearm. But just face cutting? Their OWN face?

 

[XponentialChaos]

So if someone wants to cut their face, they forfeit their right to own a firearm? What if they cut it real bad while shaving, but someone reports them as being mentally ill? The harming animals thing is a crime which would remove their right to own a firearm. But just face cutting? Their OWN face?

He didn’t cut his face from shaving. He said repeatedly slashed his face for fun.

Salvador Ramos Cut His Face for Fun, Would Shoot People With BB Gun—Friend

A portrait has begun to emerge of an increasingly angry teenager who had experienced severe bullying and had a fractured home life.

www.newsweek.com

 

[airplanemechanic]

He didn’t cut his face from shaving. He said repeatedly slashed his face for fun.

Salvador Ramos Cut His Face for Fun, Would Shoot People With BB Gun—Friend

A portrait has begun to emerge of an increasingly angry teenager who had experienced severe bullying and had a fractured home life.

www.newsweek.com

Ok is that a crime?

 

[XponentialChaos]

Ok is that a crime?

I didn’t say it’s a crime.

I’m saying that this would be an indication that he’s not mentally well enough to have an AR-15.

Dude says he cuts his face for fun and you don’t see anything wrong with letting him legally purchase an AR-15??? Are you kidding me???

 

[airplanemechanic]

I didn’t say it’s a crime.

I’m saying that this would be an indication that he’s not mentally well enough to have an AR-15.

Dude says he cuts his face for fun and you don’t see anything wrong with letting him legally purchase an AR-15??? Are you kidding me???

Yea, no law states that cutting of ones own face makes one lose a constitutional right. If he enjoys doing it, and it hurts nobody but himself, then so be it.

I mean why stop at the 2nd, shouldn't he lose his 1A rights too? What about his 5A rights? Why stop there?

 

[XponentialChaos]

Yea, no law states that cutting of ones own face makes one lose a constitutional right. If he enjoys doing it, and it hurts nobody but himself, then so be it.

I mean why stop at the 2nd, shouldn't he lose his 1A rights too? What about his 5A rights? Why stop there?

An obviously mentally unstable person isn’t going to slaughter a bunch of 10-year-olds with 1A or 5A.

We already don’t allow 18-year-olds to purchase hand guns because they’re too dangerous. But we do allow them to purchase AR-15 rifles?? Makes no sense.

But I get it. You don’t see a problem with selling AR-15 rifles to obviously mentally unstable people. And we wonder why we have this issue.

 

[airplanemechanic]

An obviously mentally unstable person isn’t going to slaughter a bunch of 10-year-olds with 1A or 5A.

We already don’t allow 18-year-olds to purchase hand guns because they’re too dangerous. But we do allow them to purchase AR-15 rifles?? Makes no sense.

But I get it. You don’t see a problem with selling AR-15 rifles to obviously mentally unstable people. And we wonder why we have this issue.

No I DO see a problem with any mentally unstable person having any gun. But what I have a problem with is how easily you want to diagnose someone as "mentally unstable." That looks like back door gun control to me. "I won't take your right to own a gun, I'll just declare you mentally unstable so you can't legally own one."

When I was 18 I lost the most wonderful love of my life. I became suicidal for a while. Under your proposal, I would have lost all rights to own a gun and defend myself. But I never was any threat to anyone but myself. I had no desire to shoot up a school or shoot at anyone. So anyone who loses a loved one and becomes depressed loses their right to own a gun? Where does it stop?

 

[XponentialChaos]

No I DO see a problem with any mentally unstable person having any gun. But what I have a problem with is how easily you want to diagnose someone as "mentally unstable." That looks like back door gun control to me. "I won't take your right to own a gun, I'll just declare you mentally unstable so you can't legally own one."

Dude says he cuts his face repeatedly for fun and you don’t see anything mentally unstable about that?

That’s stupid.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Dude says he cuts his face repeatedly for fun and you don’t see anything mentally unstable about that?

That’s stupid.

No, I mean they have dudes that shave their own fucking nuts. I think that's a sign of mental instability. Cutting is a "self harm" technique that some people use to deal with anxiety or depression. There has never been a single "cutter" that shot up a school or committed a single mass shooting, up until this past week.

We already went down this road. Come up with some new material.

 

[XponentialChaos]

No, I mean they have dudes that shave their own fucking nuts. I think that's a sign of mental instability.

We already went down this road. Come up with some new material.

That’s stupid.

Shaving nuts isn’t mentally unstable. Slashing your own face for fun is mentally unstable.

If you can’t distinguish one from the other, then that’s your problem.