Men in women's bathrooms

[Silhouette]

My lines are drawn differently from what I expect of myself and my family versus what I expect of society. I don't impose my values on others and don't expect them to impose theirs onto me. .

Oh golly no. You just want to impose upon 17 million rape survivors a naked mentally unstable man showering or changing next to them at any given moment behind a door noted for its sex segregation by the word 'women' hanging above it.

Other than giving these poor women an instant shock of PTSD and a feeling all over again of helplessness of violation without the ability to effectively resist, because they'll fear telling the man to leave because they could be sued, you're all about not imposing your values on others.

The delusional truly are amazing in their ability to employ COMPLETE DENIAL of their own GAPING HYPOCRISY AND FLAWS. Your willingness to plunge these women right back into a set of vulnerable circumstances they'll associate sexually in which they are unable to resist is remarkable. Your compassion for them is legend.

 

[boedicca]

That goes t

Seriously though, where do you draw the line on what you will NOT accept as normal? Anywhere?

This is the heart of the argument. People don't like to be told what's normal as everybody's "normal" is different.

I asked a specific question. Care to answer it? I'm sure everyone has a line as to what is acceptable.

My lines are drawn differently from what I expect of myself and my family versus what I expect of society. I don't impose my values on others and don't expect them to impose theirs onto me. If somebody chopping their dick off is gong to make them feel better then go for it, as long as the process is cleared by doctors... The goal in the that process is to bring comfort and peace of mind to the individual, so I am supportive of that. If I was faced with the situation personally in my own family I'd do everything I can to make my kid feel supported but also try everything I could to help them accept the body they were born in before resorting to drugs or surgery. I've lost people I love to depression and suicide and drugs were a factor in that... so I am very cautious when going down that route. I know they help in some cases but they can be very dangerous in other cases.

In general, I agree, but with caveats. I do not wish to financially support people who want to change their genders, especially given the very high rate of "regret" and ongoing mental problems.

Also, the first rule for a doctor is "do no harm". Just because someone wants to change the external organs indicating gender doesn't mean the doctor should do it. Body dysmorphic order is not cured by cutting off or adding bits.

 

[boedicca]

My lines are drawn differently from what I expect of myself and my family versus what I expect of society. I don't impose my values on others and don't expect them to impose theirs onto me. .

Oh golly no. You just want to impose upon 17 million rape survivors a naked mentally unstable man showering or changing next to them at any given moment behind a door noted for its sex segregation by the word 'women' hanging above it.

Other than giving these poor women an instant shock of PTSD and a feeling all over again of helplessness of violation without the ability to effectively resist, because they'll fear telling the man to leave because they could be sued, you're all about not imposing your values on others.

The delusional truly are amazing in their ability to employ COMPLETE DENIAL of their own GAPING HYPOCRISY AND FLAWS. Your willingness to plunge these women right back into a set of vulnerable circumstances they'll associate sexually in which they are unable to resist is remarkable. Your compassion for them is legend.

That's a feature, not a bug, hun. The purpose of these changes is to breakdown the barriers that protect an individual's sense of self. It's so much easier to control a person whose been violated this way.

 

[Silhouette]

That's a feature, not a bug, hun. The purpose of these changes is to breakdown the barriers that protect an individual's sense of self. It's so much easier to control a person whose been violated this way.

Trust me. I know that one. I've seen three close family members be completely stripped of individuality to where they were no more than drones at the complete behest of their master. Saw that up close and personal. I saw not just personalities broken down. I saw them erased completely.

 

[Slade3200]

You're advocating for holding a gun to 17 million rape survivors' heads though.

No, you're argument is old and I've disproven it. You're looking desperate now

 

[Silhouette]

You're advocating for holding a gun to 17 million rape survivors' heads though.

No, you're argument is old and I've disproven it. You're looking desperate now

You're not shy about lying when you need to. Delusionists also do that.

 

[Slade3200]

That goes t

Seriously though, where do you draw the line on what you will NOT accept as normal? Anywhere?

This is the heart of the argument. People don't like to be told what's normal as everybody's "normal" is different.

I asked a specific question. Care to answer it? I'm sure everyone has a line as to what is acceptable.

My lines are drawn differently from what I expect of myself and my family versus what I expect of society. I don't impose my values on others and don't expect them to impose theirs onto me. If somebody chopping their dick off is gong to make them feel better then go for it, as long as the process is cleared by doctors... The goal in the that process is to bring comfort and peace of mind to the individual, so I am supportive of that. If I was faced with the situation personally in my own family I'd do everything I can to make my kid feel supported but also try everything I could to help them accept the body they were born in before resorting to drugs or surgery. I've lost people I love to depression and suicide and drugs were a factor in that... so I am very cautious when going down that route. I know they help in some cases but they can be very dangerous in other cases.

In general, I agree, but with caveats. I do not wish to financially support people who want to change their genders, especially given the very high rate of "regret" and ongoing mental problems.

Also, the first rule for a doctor is "do no harm". Just because someone wants to change the external organs indicating gender doesn't mean the doctor should do it. Body dysmorphic order is not cured by cutting off or adding bits.

I don't mind some funding going towards research for effective treatments and therapy. I wouldn't support a substantial budget as I think we have bigger fish to fry. I dont know how much goes into transition surgeries right now, if any... As for the doctors, I don't see how it's much different than plastic surgery. You may be right about the effectiveness however I think that depends on the individual. I've heard it helps some and not others

 

[Slade3200]

You're advocating for holding a gun to 17 million rape survivors' heads though.

No, you're argument is old and I've disproven it. You're looking desperate now

You're not shy about lying when you need to. Delusionists also do that.

What did I lie about?

 

[boedicca]

That goes t

Seriously though, where do you draw the line on what you will NOT accept as normal? Anywhere?

This is the heart of the argument. People don't like to be told what's normal as everybody's "normal" is different.

I asked a specific question. Care to answer it? I'm sure everyone has a line as to what is acceptable.

My lines are drawn differently from what I expect of myself and my family versus what I expect of society. I don't impose my values on others and don't expect them to impose theirs onto me. If somebody chopping their dick off is gong to make them feel better then go for it, as long as the process is cleared by doctors... The goal in the that process is to bring comfort and peace of mind to the individual, so I am supportive of that. If I was faced with the situation personally in my own family I'd do everything I can to make my kid feel supported but also try everything I could to help them accept the body they were born in before resorting to drugs or surgery. I've lost people I love to depression and suicide and drugs were a factor in that... so I am very cautious when going down that route. I know they help in some cases but they can be very dangerous in other cases.

In general, I agree, but with caveats. I do not wish to financially support people who want to change their genders, especially given the very high rate of "regret" and ongoing mental problems.

Also, the first rule for a doctor is "do no harm". Just because someone wants to change the external organs indicating gender doesn't mean the doctor should do it. Body dysmorphic order is not cured by cutting off or adding bits.

I don't mind some funding going towards research for effective treatments and therapy. I wouldn't support a substantial budget as I think we have bigger fish to fry. I dont know how much goes into transition surgeries right now, if any... As for the doctors, I don't see how it's much different than plastic surgery. You may be right about the effectiveness however I think that depends on the individual. I've heard it helps some and not others

It's not just plastic surgery, bub. Whacking off gonads and hormone therapy cause chemical changes that affect the entire body, especially the brain.

A nose job doesn't have that effect.

 

[ChrisL]

That goes t

Seriously though, where do you draw the line on what you will NOT accept as normal? Anywhere?

This is the heart of the argument. People don't like to be told what's normal as everybody's "normal" is different.

I asked a specific question. Care to answer it? I'm sure everyone has a line as to what is acceptable.

My lines are drawn differently from what I expect of myself and my family versus what I expect of society. I don't impose my values on others and don't expect them to impose theirs onto me. If somebody chopping their dick off is gong to make them feel better then go for it, as long as the process is cleared by doctors... The goal in the that process is to bring comfort and peace of mind to the individual, so I am supportive of that. If I was faced with the situation personally in my own family I'd do everything I can to make my kid feel supported but also try everything I could to help them accept the body they were born in before resorting to drugs or surgery. I've lost people I love to depression and suicide and drugs were a factor in that... so I am very cautious when going down that route. I know they help in some cases but they can be very dangerous in other cases.

In general, I agree, but with caveats. I do not wish to financially support people who want to change their genders, especially given the very high rate of "regret" and ongoing mental problems.

Also, the first rule for a doctor is "do no harm". Just because someone wants to change the external organs indicating gender doesn't mean the doctor should do it. Body dysmorphic order is not cured by cutting off or adding bits.

I don't mind some funding going towards research for effective treatments and therapy. I wouldn't support a substantial budget as I think we have bigger fish to fry. I dont know how much goes into transition surgeries right now, if any... As for the doctors, I don't see how it's much different than plastic surgery. You may be right about the effectiveness however I think that depends on the individual. I've heard it helps some and not others

Well, for one thing, some insurance plans do in fact cover these operations and hormone therapy. How do you feel about that?

Do you really think enough is known about these people and this disorder to go to these extremes? I mean, it could be related to almost anything and these are permanent changes. It's not like they can reattach the penis once they've mutilated it.

 

[Silhouette]

Well, for one thing, some insurance plans do in fact cover these operations and hormone therapy. How do you feel about that?

Do you really think enough is known about these people and this disorder to go to these extremes? I mean, it could be related to almost anything and these are permanent changes. It's not like they can reattach the penis once they've mutilated it.

Are they aware that use of those hormones isn't FDA approved to suppress adolescence in minors, and can result in predictable illness or death to the patient? Can I have the name of those insurance companies so I know who NOT to buy shares in?

 

[Ame®icano]

I don't impose my values on others and don't expect them to impose theirs onto me.

You already got the answer to this from BB, but here is another.

Just as most lefties, you're saying one thing that seems right, while doing another completely opposite. You can't claim you're for protecting rights of one group while taking rights from another. You can't say you are against what president did, while you accept what he did by your "understanding" why he did it. You've been sitting on two chairs and you can't do that anymore. You can't have it both ways. It's time for you to chose...

Mark Twain said "It's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled". Democrats have been fooling people for so long and people finally are opening their eyes and see what on front of them. Republicans have been doing the same and all it took is one clown to expose whet they have been doing.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, for one thing, some insurance plans do in fact cover these operations and hormone therapy. How do you feel about that?

Do you really think enough is known about these people and this disorder to go to these extremes? I mean, it could be related to almost anything and these are permanent changes. It's not like they can reattach the penis once they've mutilated it.

Are they aware that use of those hormones isn't FDA approved to suppress adolescence in minors, and can result in predictable illness or death to the patient? Can I have the name of those insurance companies so I know who NOT to buy shares in?

I don't know. I just read it on one of my links.

 

[Seawytch]

Making him into a . . . "something undefined" permanently is NOT the right solution, of this I am sure.

Would you let him dress and act like a girl if it seemed to help with his issues?

You know how kids are acting when they don't get what they want.

Thankfully, I don't have those issues with my child. He is definitely all boy. Lol. If my boy that messed up about his gender, I would like to think I would have him in therapy pronto.

Oh my freaking god...do you think that the parents of trans kids don't seek therapy for their children? Do you know what the recommended treatment is? I guarantee you it wouldn't be to your liking.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I don't impose my values on others and don't expect them to impose theirs onto me.

You already got the answer to this from BB, but here is another.

Just as most lefties, you're saying one thing that seems right, while doing another completely opposite. You can't claim you're for protecting rights of one group while taking rights from another. You can't say you are against what president did, while you accept what he did by your "understanding" why he did it. You've been sitting on two chairs and you can't do that anymore. You can't have it both ways. It's time for you to chose...

Mark Twain said "It's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled". Democrats have been fooling people for so long and people finally are opening their eyes and see what on front of them. Republicans have been doing the same and all it took is one clown to expose whet they have been doing.

It's exactly as Orwell wrote, in defining and describing “doublethink”, a principle which has taken deep root in modern Democratic/liberal/wrong-wing ideology.…

“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself – that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink.”

“The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies – all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.”​

You can certainly see this pattern in Slade3200's postings, where he takes two completely incompatible positions at once; surely knowing that the two are mutually exclusive, and yet sincerely believing both.

 

[ChrisL]

Making him into a . . . "something undefined" permanently is NOT the right solution, of this I am sure.

Would you let him dress and act like a girl if it seemed to help with his issues?

You know how kids are acting when they don't get what they want.

Thankfully, I don't have those issues with my child. He is definitely all boy. Lol. If my boy that messed up about his gender, I would like to think I would have him in therapy pronto.

Oh my freaking god...do you think that the parents of trans kids don't seek therapy for their children? Do you know what the recommended treatment is? I guarantee you it wouldn't be to your liking.

Some probably don't. Not all parents are GOOD parents. That's just ONE reason why some kids are so messed up, genius!

 

[baileyn45]

No I have seen the boy but haven't met any of them. Don't get me wrong I don't mean to vilify. I just can't understand how the same consideration given the young man, to not have to shower with boys, is not given to my daughter and the other girls. I probably could have gone along with public bathrooms, although if I were to watch a grown man follow a young girl into the bathroom I know I will have to follow. I can not stand by and hope for the best even if it's not my child. There isn't much I hold sacred in this world, children are at the top of the list.

Don't you think if you saw that same "man" in a dress and high heels follow your little boy into the restroom, you'd want to follow as well?? Unfortunately in our society, without even the trans argument, it isn't smart to allow young children to go to the bathroom alone or unsupervised.

Regarding the kid in your school... Why don't you try and meet with the parents and meet the child and learn about what the situation is before being so animately opposed to it?

Keep in mind trans has nothing to do with it. Any man can walk into a womens room, they are not handing out trans cards that say "I'm a man and identify as a woman". I agree with unsupervised children being a bad thing, at the same time I cannot follow my 14 year old everywhere. The idea that any man can walk into a womans room with the full knowledge that anyone that challenges him runs the risk of a hate crime is bothersome to say the least.

As far as talking to the parents or boy involved I don't see the point. There is nothing that is going to sway my view. The fact that one boy feels uncomfortable in the boys room supercedes the 30 girls in my daughters PE class feeling uncomfortable changing or showering with a boy is just wrong. Again I don't wish to demonize the boy, but we're talking to about my daughter, nothing supercedes that. And I can't understand how any one can see this as equality. His concerns are met, 30 girls are ignored..

I completely agree with you which is why, if we are going to make laws about this thing, it should be very clear that men can not go into a lady's room with the claim that they just feel like a woman. I laid out in an earlier post some ideas on how we can do that. We need to define what a transgender is and use the law to help those it's intended for and punish people who abuse it.

If you are that hard headed that you won't engage or explore other points of view then you are a lost cause... If everybody had that point of view the world would be an even uglier place. Without open mindedness and compromise we have little room for progress. It is the spirit of our country. Otherwise lets just get a dictator to tell us all what to do, screw the voice of the people if nobody is ever going to budge.

For me it's simple, it's about my daughter, period. I will never compromise when it comes to her. And again I'm not hateful towards the boy, I just will not stand by and watch one boys concerns trump 30 young girls. It's plain and simply wrong. Anything else is irrelevent. It also sets a precedent. People compare this to racial civil rights I don't buy it. This young man is given preference over our daughters and we are not talking about frivolous issues, we are talking about expecting my daughter and 29 others to get naked in front of young men. Right now it is the dictator demanding my daughter get naked.

As far as the boy and his family are concerned, I wish them the best but there is nothing I can add to their situation and it is none of my business except as far as it concerns my daughter.

Aren't you fortunate that that "boy" is not your son... Have you thought about that?

I still don't understand why you wouldn't want to meet the kid and parents to learn more about the situation. Perhaps it's not a matter of compromising or promoting a destructive threat to your child as you think. Maybe it would teach a valuable lesson about acceptance that will help her in the future... or Perhaps you will be able to voice your opinion to the parents of the boy and to the school board... but without the perspective of the other side you will only come off as uneducated and biased. I don't know, what would result, but I don't see how it would hurt.

I can assure you if the boy were my son I would not seek to take it out on 30 other peoples daughters.

Again as far as the boy and his family it's not my place. I'm not a psychiatrist, I don't think it's my business except where it concerns my child.

 

[Slade3200]

That goes t
This is the heart of the argument. People don't like to be told what's normal as everybody's "normal" is different.

I asked a specific question. Care to answer it? I'm sure everyone has a line as to what is acceptable.

My lines are drawn differently from what I expect of myself and my family versus what I expect of society. I don't impose my values on others and don't expect them to impose theirs onto me. If somebody chopping their dick off is gong to make them feel better then go for it, as long as the process is cleared by doctors... The goal in the that process is to bring comfort and peace of mind to the individual, so I am supportive of that. If I was faced with the situation personally in my own family I'd do everything I can to make my kid feel supported but also try everything I could to help them accept the body they were born in before resorting to drugs or surgery. I've lost people I love to depression and suicide and drugs were a factor in that... so I am very cautious when going down that route. I know they help in some cases but they can be very dangerous in other cases.

In general, I agree, but with caveats. I do not wish to financially support people who want to change their genders, especially given the very high rate of "regret" and ongoing mental problems.

Also, the first rule for a doctor is "do no harm". Just because someone wants to change the external organs indicating gender doesn't mean the doctor should do it. Body dysmorphic order is not cured by cutting off or adding bits.

I don't mind some funding going towards research for effective treatments and therapy. I wouldn't support a substantial budget as I think we have bigger fish to fry. I dont know how much goes into transition surgeries right now, if any... As for the doctors, I don't see how it's much different than plastic surgery. You may be right about the effectiveness however I think that depends on the individual. I've heard it helps some and not others

Well, for one thing, some insurance plans do in fact cover these operations and hormone therapy. How do you feel about that?

Do you really think enough is known about these people and this disorder to go to these extremes? I mean, it could be related to almost anything and these are permanent changes. It's not like they can reattach the penis once they've mutilated it.

I'm not an expert on the medical science. I have learned a lot from this discussion and have done a bunch of research based on points that you and some others have made... I thank you for that... To be honest I think it is very strange and I'm not completely comfortable with all of the transitioning biz, but I'm trying to better educate myself and I also usually default to the live and let live theory. I'm not out to control or impose my moral values into others.

 

[Slade3200]

Well, for one thing, some insurance plans do in fact cover these operations and hormone therapy. How do you feel about that?

Do you really think enough is known about these people and this disorder to go to these extremes? I mean, it could be related to almost anything and these are permanent changes. It's not like they can reattach the penis once they've mutilated it.

Are they aware that use of those hormones isn't FDA approved to suppress adolescence in minors, and can result in predictable illness or death to the patient? Can I have the name of those insurance companies so I know who NOT to buy shares in?

Doesn't birth control impose the exact same risks? Do you oppose that too?

 

[Slade3200]

I don't impose my values on others and don't expect them to impose theirs onto me.

You already got the answer to this from BB, but here is another.

Just as most lefties, you're saying one thing that seems right, while doing another completely opposite. You can't claim you're for protecting rights of one group while taking rights from another. You can't say you are against what president did, while you accept what he did by your "understanding" why he did it. You've been sitting on two chairs and you can't do that anymore. You can't have it both ways. It's time for you to chose...

Mark Twain said "It's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled". Democrats have been fooling people for so long and people finally are opening their eyes and see what on front of them. Republicans have been doing the same and all it took is one clown to expose whet they have been doing.

I guess I'm just a big ol lefty hypocrite