Does anyone else find it funny that the same people who beat their chests about how "strong" Trump would be as a President are the ones calling for policies of appeasement towards Putin's Russia?
Maybe Russia would rather not have a war with us that would destroy all human life
- Thread starter Blackrook
- Start date
Divine Wind
Platinum Member
Hitler wanted the Sudetenland because he desperately needed it. Was that justification to let him do it?
Divine Wind
Platinum Member
Agreed. It's as big a flip-flop as Kerry's "I was for the war before I was against it". Another reason not to trust political partisans.
TheOldSchool
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #24
"Let him?"Hitler wanted the Sudetenland because he desperately needed it. Was that justification to let him do it?
Half our country was cheering Putin along. tinydancer
Blackrook
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- Jun 20, 2014
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It's hilarious watching Democrats turn into warhawks after so many decades of watching them act like pussies.
The problem with Democrats, when they do turn into warhawks, is that they get us involved in stupid wars that they then try to keep secret from the American people, and don't allow our military to win.
Two examples: the Korean War and the Vietnam War.
Hillary might get us involved in World War III, but then she would be too stupid and incompetent to know what to do to win it.
The problem with Democrats, when they do turn into warhawks, is that they get us involved in stupid wars that they then try to keep secret from the American people, and don't allow our military to win.
Two examples: the Korean War and the Vietnam War.
Hillary might get us involved in World War III, but then she would be too stupid and incompetent to know what to do to win it.
Divine Wind
Platinum Member
Half? I never saw any stats and I certainly don't trust that motherfucking Russian."Let him?"Hitler wanted the Sudetenland because he desperately needed it. Was that justification to let him do it?
Half our country was cheering Putin along. tinydancer
Americans See Russia Less Negatively, as Less of a Threat
After reaching a new low in 2015, Americans' impressions of Russia have recovered somewhat this year, with 30% viewing the country favorably versus 24% in 2015. The majority of Americans continue to view the nation unfavorably, and their favorability rating is still half as high as it was a decade ago.
TheOldSchool
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #27
^ dredges up things from 40+ years ago/pretends Dubya never happened
TheOldSchool
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #28
Sorry. I guess I should have said whatever percentage of America the alt-right is.Half? I never saw any stats and I certainly don't trust that motherfucking Russian."Let him?"Hitler wanted the Sudetenland because he desperately needed it. Was that justification to let him do it?
Half our country was cheering Putin along. tinydancer
Americans See Russia Less Negatively, as Less of a Threat
After reaching a new low in 2015, Americans' impressions of Russia have recovered somewhat this year, with 30% viewing the country favorably versus 24% in 2015. The majority of Americans continue to view the nation unfavorably, and their favorability rating is still half as high as it was a decade ago.
Divine Wind
Platinum Member
More about the God damn motherfucking Russians:
It looks like Russia hired internet trolls to pose as pro-Trump Americans
Russia's troll factories were, at one point, likely being paid by the Kremlin to spread pro-Trump propaganda on social media.
That is what freelance journalist Adrian Chen, now a staff writer at The New Yorker, discovered as he was researching Russia's "army of well-paid trolls" for an explosive New York Times Magazine exposé published in June 2015.
"A very interesting thing happened," Chen told Longform's Max Linsky in a podcast in December.
"I created this list of Russian trolls when I was researching. And I check on it once in a while, still. And a lot of them have turned into conservative accounts, like fake conservatives. I don't know what's going on, but they're all tweeting about Donald Trump and stuff," he said.
Linsky then asked Chen who he thought "was paying for that."
"I don't know," Chen replied. "I feel like it's some kind of really opaque strategy of electing Donald Trump to undermine the US or something. Like false-flag kind of thing. You know, that's how I started thinking about all this stuff after being in Russia."
In his research from St. Petersburg, Chen discovered that Russian internet trolls — paid by the Kremlin to spread false information on the internet — have been behind a number of "highly coordinated campaigns" to deceive the American public.
It's a brand of information warfare, known as "dezinformatsiya," that has been used by the Russians since at least the Cold War. The disinformation campaigns are only one "active measure" tool used by Russian intelligence to "sow discord among," and within, allies perceived hostile to Russia.
"An active measure is a time-honored KGB tactic for waging informational and psychological warfare," Michael Weiss, a senior editor at The Daily Beast and editor-in-chief of The Interpreter — an online magazine that translates and analyzes political, social, and economic events inside the Russian Federation — wrote on Tuesday.
He continued (emphasis added):
"It is designed, as retired KGB General Oleg Kalugin once defined it, 'to drive wedges in the Western community alliances of all sorts, particularly NATO, to sow discord among allies, to weaken the United States in the eyes of the people in Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, and thus to prepare ground in case the war really occurs.' The most common subcategory of active measures is dezinformatsiya, or disinformation: feverish, if believable lies cooked up by Moscow Centre and planted in friendly media outlets to make democratic nations look sinister."
It is not surprising, then, that the Kremlin would pay internet trolls to pose as Trump supporters and build him up online. In fact, that would be the easy part.
From his interviews with former trolls employed by Russia, Chen gathered that the point of their jobs "was to weave propaganda seamlessly into what appeared to be the nonpolitical musings of an everyday person."
"Russia's information war might be thought of as the biggest trolling operation in history," Chen wrote. "And its target is nothing less than the utility of the Internet as a democratic space."
'The gift that keeps on giving'
From threats about pulling out of NATO to altering the GOP's policy on Ukraine — which has long called for arming Ukrainian soldiers against pro-Russia rebels — Trump is "the gift that keeps on giving" for Putin, Russian journalist Julia Ioffe noted in a piece for Politico.
"Life is still not great here," Ioffe reported from the small Russian city of Nizhny Tagil in June. "But it's a loyal place and support for Putin is high. In large part, it is because people—especially older people like [Russian citizen Felix] Kolsky—get their news from Kremlin-controlled TV. And Kremlin-controlled TV has been unequivocal about whom they want to win the U.S. presidential election: Donald Trump."
As such, the year-long hack of the DNC — discovered in mid-June and traced back to Russian military intelligence by the cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike — would seem to be the archetypal "active measure" described by Weiss, adapted to modern technology to have maximum impact.
"The DNC hack and dump is what cyberwar looks like," Dave Aitel, a cybersecurity specialist, a former NSA employee, and founder of cybersecurity firm Immunity Inc., wrote for Ars Technica last week.
That makes sense given Russia's partiality to weaponizing information — and the digital era's abundance of hackers for hire.
The leak of internal DNC email correspondences revealing a bias against Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders — by WikiLeaks, an organization founded by Russia Today contributor Julian Assange — has divided the American left and made the Republican Party look unified in comparison.
Trump's seemingly shady financial overtures to Russian oligarchs have since resurfaced, perhaps as evidence that the real-estate mogul or his top advisers may have had a hand in the hack that made his opponents look so bad.
As Ioffe noted in a later piece for Foreign Policy, however, Trump's own influence among high-level Russian figures may be overstated given the difficulty that he has had throughout his career in securing lucrative real-estate projects there.
It seems, rather, that Trump is more useful to the Russians than they have ever been to him.
Even if — and it's becoming increasingly unlikely — Vladimir Putin and his intelligence apparatus had nothing to do with the DNC hack, that the mere suspicion has come to dominate American media is a huge propaganda boon for the former KGB operative.
"The very fact that we are discussing this and believing that Putin has the skill, inside knowledge, and wherewithal to field a candidate in an American presidential election and get him through the primaries to the nomination means we are imbuing him with the very power and importance he so craves," Ioffe wrote.
"All he wants is for America to see him as a worthy adversary. This week, we're giving that to him, and then some," she wrote.
It looks like Russia hired internet trolls to pose as pro-Trump Americans
Russia's troll factories were, at one point, likely being paid by the Kremlin to spread pro-Trump propaganda on social media.
That is what freelance journalist Adrian Chen, now a staff writer at The New Yorker, discovered as he was researching Russia's "army of well-paid trolls" for an explosive New York Times Magazine exposé published in June 2015.
"A very interesting thing happened," Chen told Longform's Max Linsky in a podcast in December.
"I created this list of Russian trolls when I was researching. And I check on it once in a while, still. And a lot of them have turned into conservative accounts, like fake conservatives. I don't know what's going on, but they're all tweeting about Donald Trump and stuff," he said.
Linsky then asked Chen who he thought "was paying for that."
"I don't know," Chen replied. "I feel like it's some kind of really opaque strategy of electing Donald Trump to undermine the US or something. Like false-flag kind of thing. You know, that's how I started thinking about all this stuff after being in Russia."
In his research from St. Petersburg, Chen discovered that Russian internet trolls — paid by the Kremlin to spread false information on the internet — have been behind a number of "highly coordinated campaigns" to deceive the American public.
It's a brand of information warfare, known as "dezinformatsiya," that has been used by the Russians since at least the Cold War. The disinformation campaigns are only one "active measure" tool used by Russian intelligence to "sow discord among," and within, allies perceived hostile to Russia.
"An active measure is a time-honored KGB tactic for waging informational and psychological warfare," Michael Weiss, a senior editor at The Daily Beast and editor-in-chief of The Interpreter — an online magazine that translates and analyzes political, social, and economic events inside the Russian Federation — wrote on Tuesday.
He continued (emphasis added):
"It is designed, as retired KGB General Oleg Kalugin once defined it, 'to drive wedges in the Western community alliances of all sorts, particularly NATO, to sow discord among allies, to weaken the United States in the eyes of the people in Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, and thus to prepare ground in case the war really occurs.' The most common subcategory of active measures is dezinformatsiya, or disinformation: feverish, if believable lies cooked up by Moscow Centre and planted in friendly media outlets to make democratic nations look sinister."
It is not surprising, then, that the Kremlin would pay internet trolls to pose as Trump supporters and build him up online. In fact, that would be the easy part.
From his interviews with former trolls employed by Russia, Chen gathered that the point of their jobs "was to weave propaganda seamlessly into what appeared to be the nonpolitical musings of an everyday person."
"Russia's information war might be thought of as the biggest trolling operation in history," Chen wrote. "And its target is nothing less than the utility of the Internet as a democratic space."
'The gift that keeps on giving'
From threats about pulling out of NATO to altering the GOP's policy on Ukraine — which has long called for arming Ukrainian soldiers against pro-Russia rebels — Trump is "the gift that keeps on giving" for Putin, Russian journalist Julia Ioffe noted in a piece for Politico.
"Life is still not great here," Ioffe reported from the small Russian city of Nizhny Tagil in June. "But it's a loyal place and support for Putin is high. In large part, it is because people—especially older people like [Russian citizen Felix] Kolsky—get their news from Kremlin-controlled TV. And Kremlin-controlled TV has been unequivocal about whom they want to win the U.S. presidential election: Donald Trump."
As such, the year-long hack of the DNC — discovered in mid-June and traced back to Russian military intelligence by the cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike — would seem to be the archetypal "active measure" described by Weiss, adapted to modern technology to have maximum impact.
"The DNC hack and dump is what cyberwar looks like," Dave Aitel, a cybersecurity specialist, a former NSA employee, and founder of cybersecurity firm Immunity Inc., wrote for Ars Technica last week.
That makes sense given Russia's partiality to weaponizing information — and the digital era's abundance of hackers for hire.
The leak of internal DNC email correspondences revealing a bias against Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders — by WikiLeaks, an organization founded by Russia Today contributor Julian Assange — has divided the American left and made the Republican Party look unified in comparison.
Trump's seemingly shady financial overtures to Russian oligarchs have since resurfaced, perhaps as evidence that the real-estate mogul or his top advisers may have had a hand in the hack that made his opponents look so bad.
As Ioffe noted in a later piece for Foreign Policy, however, Trump's own influence among high-level Russian figures may be overstated given the difficulty that he has had throughout his career in securing lucrative real-estate projects there.
It seems, rather, that Trump is more useful to the Russians than they have ever been to him.
Even if — and it's becoming increasingly unlikely — Vladimir Putin and his intelligence apparatus had nothing to do with the DNC hack, that the mere suspicion has come to dominate American media is a huge propaganda boon for the former KGB operative.
"The very fact that we are discussing this and believing that Putin has the skill, inside knowledge, and wherewithal to field a candidate in an American presidential election and get him through the primaries to the nomination means we are imbuing him with the very power and importance he so craves," Ioffe wrote.
"All he wants is for America to see him as a worthy adversary. This week, we're giving that to him, and then some," she wrote.
Are you under the impression that "acceding to everything he demands" is "approaching him from a position of strength"?
You are correct in saying that Putin is a rational actor. He is - and that's why he's not going to start WWIII over Syria or Hillary's "aggressive stance".
Putin is saber-rattling, and you guys are cowering in fear.
Divine Wind
Platinum Member
I'm sure it's a small percentage. Probably about the same as the alt-left. These things tend to spread out like Bell Curves with the extremists on the ends.
Better do everything he demands and turn a blind eye towards his consolidation of power, right?
Is that you, Minister Chamberlain?
TheOldSchool
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #34
The extremists are a hair's breadth away from taking the White House
EverCurious
Gold Member
What I find curious is /why/ opinion of Russia tanked. Anti-gay sentiment...
January 25 - Scuffles occur on the streets of Moscow as supporters and opponents clash over the Russian parliament's attempts to implement anti-gay legislation. If legalised it would result in fines for those who promote events with a gay theme.
And yet, mysteriously, it's okay to have gays put to death in the ME... Oh no that's fine, we can be friends with /them/ still.
(And do keep in mind, I am an avid LGBT supporter who is a lesbian woman that identifies masculine so don't try to call me names on that.)
January 25 - Scuffles occur on the streets of Moscow as supporters and opponents clash over the Russian parliament's attempts to implement anti-gay legislation. If legalised it would result in fines for those who promote events with a gay theme.
And yet, mysteriously, it's okay to have gays put to death in the ME... Oh no that's fine, we can be friends with /them/ still.
(And do keep in mind, I am an avid LGBT supporter who is a lesbian woman that identifies masculine so don't try to call me names on that.)
Billy_Kinetta
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They long for the days of Jack Kennedy, not realizing that Jack would have had them all shot.
Blackrook
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- Jun 20, 2014
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- #38
Jack was a war hero. Hillary hates the military, and didn't even want military uniforms in the White House.
“Hillary was very rude to agents, and she didn’t appear to like law enforcement or the military. She wouldn’t go over and meet military people or police officers, as most protectees do. She was just really rude to almost everybody. She’d act like she didn’t want you around, like you were beneath her.”
The Secret Service describes Hillary Clinton as disliking military aides in uniform around the White House, according to another former agent.
“Hillary didn’t like the military aides wearing their uniforms around the White House. She asked if they would wear business suits instead. The uniform’s a sign of pride, and they’re proud to wear their uniform. I know that the military was actually really offended by it.”
Abusive Side of Hillary Clinton Revealed By Secret Service
Dubya Da Last Repug Prez
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- Oct 21, 2016
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My goodness...I never thought I would see the day when most Repugs would become total doves when it comes to Russia. This is hilarious. It just shows that none of you brainless goobers ever learned how to think for yourself, even as adults. An authoritarian figure like Trump tells you that you should now like Russia, so you dipshits all mindlessly fall in line like 5 year olds.
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