Maccabi Tel Aviv Victory Sparks Torrent of Anti-Semitic Abuse

[Lipush]

Having a strong dislike for Israeli politicians does not make one an anti Semite.

But saying "Too bad hitler didn't finish the job" and "go to the gas chambers" is.

Stop making it about Israel when the thread clearly states this hate is against Jews.

Either you guys don't know how to read or you chose to play dumb.

 

[Lipush]

Jews aren't a race and antisemitic speech isn't illegal. Feel free to show how either is.

It wasn't illegal in 39's Europe.

There are certain aspects of "free speech" which shouldn't be acceptable.

Calling for politic murder is also free speech. You tolerant that, too?

 

[BobbyMac]

>>Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995. Negationism Law ... LAW No 90-615 to repress acts of racism, anti-semitism and xenophobia (1990).<<
In France and Germany anti-semitism and holocause denial are banned. Publishing or posting on the internet things that are anti-semitic usually are removed if found automatically or reported.
Some states like California have passed anti-semitic laws (HR 35).
Free speech does not mean hate speech. It is not free to incite others to commit crimes or injure others (singular or group). Not free to threaten or otherwise cause harm or fear. The right of the speaker has to be responsible for both actions and words. We have to respect others their their rights.

I understand what you are saying. I understand that inciting violence is wrong. This includes violence against any group just because they are a member of that group. But people can voice opinions and say things that do not promote violence. Violence against Jews is antisemitic. Saying you hate Jews is antisemitic. Only one of those is illegal.

Can a Jew stand on a street corner and profess his hatred of blacks? Of course he can, and black is an actual race. If he backs up his words with actions, that's when it becomes illegal.

I would think that anyohe standing on a street corner professing his hatred of Black with others standing around who upon hearing the hater vomit out his words would be incited would be at the very least told to move on, if not held for questioning. However, it was interesting to read in my local paper at one time how a Black youth was beaten up by young Whites, and the police found stuff from NeoNazis hate sites downloaded on their computers. Strange that you should bring up Blacks because most of the hate crimes here in the U.S. are against the Jews and the Blacks.

The police would have no justification to hold that person for questioning since they have broken no law. This is not about what was said but the right to say it.

 

[BobbyMac]

In most of the civilised world including all of Europe, America, Canada, Australia, Japan, New Zealand and most non Islamic nations.

CFCA - The Coordination Forum for Countering Antisemitism

I know this is a stretch, but did you actually read what you linked??

What you linked speaks of antisemitism as an enhancement to the crime just like what we call hate crimes. Nowhere does it say that any country has a law against antisemitism. Anyone can stand in the middle of Times Square and say to anyone passing by that they hate Jews, and it is not illegal. Why is this so hard to comprehend??

Never said that it was, it seems that you have a hard time understanding that saying you hate a race is not racism. But to repeat BLOOD LIBELS is racism and in the case of the Jews anti-Semitism. My link gave a list of countries with specific anti Semitism laws, and countries that have extended their racism laws to cover anti semitism

Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.

Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).

And in none of those countries is antisemitism itself illegal. It is only an enhancement to an actual crime. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend??

 

[BobbyMac]

Correct but making libellous comments about them does

Actually, it doesn't. I don't be is like them because of their religious beliefs. I dislike them because of their political actions.

Still making libellous comments about the Jews is illegal, just as making libellous comments about arabs is also illegal. For example I can not say that the arabs shoot unarmed children in the back because a video shows two young men falling to the floor. Nor can I say that arabs use the blood of Christian children to make bread for Eid. If you want to say that the Israeli politicians are making the wrong decisions that is fine, but to claim that they are brutally treating the Palestinians and infringing their rights while breaking the Geneva conventions then you have overstepped the boundary of free speech and are in the realms of racism, anti Semitism and incitement to violence

I have not incited anything. I am entitled to my opinion, as are you, and there is nothing illegal about it.

Though I have not said it anywhere, Israeli brutality towards Palestinians is as easy to show as Palestinian brutality towards Israelis so there is no libel there. The Geneva Convention violations are in black and white so again no libel.

 

[BobbyMac]

Jews are a race as agreed by the UN

Proof?


In 1975 the UN passed a resolution stating Zionism is racism. This wasn't changed until 1991. So you want to listen to the UN about racism you go right ahead.

Under common International law Jews are 3 things, a nation, a religion and a separate race. You can not alter that fact without changing International law.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewnation.html

Judaism can be thought of as being simultaneously a religion, a nationality and a culture.

Actually what you linked said they are a nation, religion, and a culture, not a race.

 

[BobbyMac]

>>Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995. Negationism Law ... LAW No 90-615 to repress acts of racism, anti-semitism and xenophobia (1990).<<
In France and Germany anti-semitism and holocause denial are banned. Publishing or posting on the internet things that are anti-semitic usually are removed if found automatically or reported.
Some states like California have passed anti-semitic laws (HR 35).
Free speech does not mean hate speech. It is not free to incite others to commit crimes or injure others (singular or group). Not free to threaten or otherwise cause harm or fear. The right of the speaker has to be responsible for both actions and words. We have to respect others their their rights.

I understand what you are saying. I understand that inciting violence is wrong. This includes violence against any group just because they are a member of that group. But people can voice opinions and say things that do not promote violence. Violence against Jews is antisemitic. Saying you hate Jews is antisemitic. Only one of those is illegal.

Can a Jew stand on a street corner and profess his hatred of blacks? Of course he can, and black is an actual race. If he backs up his words with actions, that's when it becomes illegal.

You really need to understand what constitutes free speech. You can not shout fire in a theatre for example, nor can you say you have a bomb if you are in a plane. Those are obvious examples of breaches of free speech but not so obvious is saying things like " those bloody Jews have mooched 3 billion from the taxpayer again this year". That is racism, anti Semitism and incitement to violence even though you think it is acceptable speech. The fine line is when a person finds your words offensive then it is no longer free speech

Those things aren't even remotely the same. You can't equate a person professing their beliefs with someone calling in a bomb threat!! Also, I believe the original point was that Israel mooched money, not the Jews. Not that it matters because either way it is perfectly legal to say it.

 

[BobbyMac]

Having a strong dislike for Israeli politicians does not make one an anti Semite.

But saying "Too bad hitler didn't finish the job" and "go to the gas chambers" is.

Stop making it about Israel when the thread clearly states this hate is against Jews.

Either you guys don't know how to read or you chose to play dumb.

In was responding to a comment. And yes, those statements are obviously antisemitic, but not illegal.

 

[Lipush]

Having a strong dislike for Israeli politicians does not make one an anti Semite.

But saying "Too bad hitler didn't finish the job" and "go to the gas chambers" is.

Stop making it about Israel when the thread clearly states this hate is against Jews.

Either you guys don't know how to read or you chose to play dumb.

In was responding to a comment. And yes, those statements are obviously antisemitic, but not illegal.

In that case, "Price tag" is not illegal, either.

Which of course, is idiotic.

 

[BobbyMac]

Jews aren't a race and antisemitic speech isn't illegal. Feel free to show how either is.

It wasn't illegal in 39's Europe.

There are certain aspects of "free speech" which shouldn't be acceptable.

Calling for politic murder is also free speech. You tolerant that, too?

Acceptable and illegal are very different things. We might even agree on things that are not acceptable but we don't get to decide if that is illegal.

I have know people over the years that despise Jews, for whatever reason. I have never seen any of them harm a Jew or call for any Jews to be harmed. Are they antisemitic? Yes. Are their words, thoughts, beliefs, illegal? Of course not.

 

[Lipush]

Jews aren't a race and antisemitic speech isn't illegal. Feel free to show how either is.

It wasn't illegal in 39's Europe.

There are certain aspects of "free speech" which shouldn't be acceptable.

Calling for politic murder is also free speech. You tolerant that, too?

Acceptable and illegal are very different things. We might even agree on things that are not acceptable but we don't get to decide if that is illegal.

I have know people over the years that despise Jews, for whatever reason. I have never seen any of them harm a Jew or call for any Jews to be harmed. Are they antisemitic? Yes. Are their words, thoughts, beliefs, illegal? Of course not.

You can think whatever you like. But You know how many times "Web Bullying" turned into actual violence? Way too many.

And web bullying is forbidden in places like the united states. By law. Twitter goes into that, as well.

And one cannot deny that anti-semitic slander goes waaaay into catagoric of "bullying".

 

[dilloduck]

I hate the Yankees. They're from New York so I throw that in too when I mock them. If they had a common religion I would include also. Get over it. Sports fans do this kind of stuff.

 

[Kondor3]

This national-level feeding frenzy that accompanies World-class football (soccer) playoffs and championships has always repelled and fascinated me simultaneously.

The national and ethnic (and, apparently, religious) hatreds that rise to the surface at such times tell me that we (the human race) are still red-eyed savages, despite the thin veneer of law and civilization that we like to delude ourselves will prevent bad things from happening or enduring.

 

[BobbyMac]

It wasn't illegal in 39's Europe.

There are certain aspects of "free speech" which shouldn't be acceptable.

Calling for politic murder is also free speech. You tolerant that, too?

Acceptable and illegal are very different things. We might even agree on things that are not acceptable but we don't get to decide if that is illegal.

I have know people over the years that despise Jews, for whatever reason. I have never seen any of them harm a Jew or call for any Jews to be harmed. Are they antisemitic? Yes. Are their words, thoughts, beliefs, illegal? Of course not.

You can think whatever you like. But You know how many times "Web Bullying" turned into actual violence? Way too many.

And web bullying is forbidden in places like the united states. By law. Twitter goes into that, as well.

And one cannot deny that anti-semitic slander goes waaaay into catagoric of "bullying".

Someone saying " I hate Jews" and someone saying "I hate you because you are a Jew and you should die" are dramatically different things.

 

[Phoenall]

I understand what you are saying. I understand that inciting violence is wrong. This includes violence against any group just because they are a member of that group. But people can voice opinions and say things that do not promote violence. Violence against Jews is antisemitic. Saying you hate Jews is antisemitic. Only one of those is illegal.

Can a Jew stand on a street corner and profess his hatred of blacks? Of course he can, and black is an actual race. If he backs up his words with actions, that's when it becomes illegal.

I would think that anyohe standing on a street corner professing his hatred of Black with others standing around who upon hearing the hater vomit out his words would be incited would be at the very least told to move on, if not held for questioning. However, it was interesting to read in my local paper at one time how a Black youth was beaten up by young Whites, and the police found stuff from NeoNazis hate sites downloaded on their computers. Strange that you should bring up Blacks because most of the hate crimes here in the U.S. are against the Jews and the Blacks.

The police would have no justification to hold that person for questioning since they have broken no law. This is not about what was said but the right to say it.

They have if they did it with the sole intention of inciting violence, and it does not need to be black on white violence either. So would fall foul of Freedom of Speech

 

[Phoenall]

I know this is a stretch, but did you actually read what you linked??

What you linked speaks of antisemitism as an enhancement to the crime just like what we call hate crimes. Nowhere does it say that any country has a law against antisemitism. Anyone can stand in the middle of Times Square and say to anyone passing by that they hate Jews, and it is not illegal. Why is this so hard to comprehend??

Never said that it was, it seems that you have a hard time understanding that saying you hate a race is not racism. But to repeat BLOOD LIBELS is racism and in the case of the Jews anti-Semitism. My link gave a list of countries with specific anti Semitism laws, and countries that have extended their racism laws to cover anti semitism

Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.

Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).

And in none of those countries is antisemitism itself illegal. It is only an enhancement to an actual crime. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend??

You really need to learn how to read English as the link provided has this to say

"Among those covered, there are at least seven countries which have entered specific legislation into the law books dealing with the subject of antisemitism. They are: Romania, Spain, Mexico, Switzerland, France, Sweden and Austria"
"One other country, Latvia, began preparing a draft law on the subject in April 2004. According to the laws of these countries, antisemitism is an explicit violation of the law. However, there are countries such as Russia in which, while laws do exist that might be interpreted as prohibiting antisemitism, they are not explicit and are rarely enforced. On the other hand, there are those countries which do not have laws specifically against antisemitism, but which strongly combat it with the aid of other laws dealing with discrimination."

Then goes on to list the countries that have legislation already in place that covers the crime of ANTI SEMITISM, for example :

" France

The Law stating that denying the Holocaust is an offense was passed in 1990. This is an amendment to a law from 1881 that related to freedom of the press. This law prohibits both antisemitism (Law 90-615) and denying the Holocaust (Article 24b, la loi Gayssot). Another law adopted in 2003 sets stiffer punishments for offenses against an antisemitic or racist background. (Law no. 2003-88 of February 2003).

In addition, in 2003, the French Government established a permanent inter-ministerial commission to coordinate the activities of the Government in combating antisemitism and racism which discusses, inter-alia, possible legislative measures on the subject. "

 

[Sally]

It wasn't illegal in 39's Europe.

There are certain aspects of "free speech" which shouldn't be acceptable.

Calling for politic murder is also free speech. You tolerant that, too?

Acceptable and illegal are very different things. We might even agree on things that are not acceptable but we don't get to decide if that is illegal.

I have know people over the years that despise Jews, for whatever reason. I have never seen any of them harm a Jew or call for any Jews to be harmed. Are they antisemitic? Yes. Are their words, thoughts, beliefs, illegal? Of course not.

You can think whatever you like. But You know how many times "Web Bullying" turned into actual violence? Way too many.

And web bullying is forbidden in places like the united states. By law. Twitter goes into that, as well.

And one cannot deny that anti-semitic slander goes waaaay into catagoric of "bullying".

It's amazing what goes on at some of these sites because there is Freedom of Speech.

Report: Users of White Power Website Have Committed Nearly 100 Murders - NBC News

Almost 100 Hate Crime Killings Linked To One Website: Report

 

[Phoenall]

Actually, it doesn't. I don't be is like them because of their religious beliefs. I dislike them because of their political actions.

Still making libellous comments about the Jews is illegal, just as making libellous comments about arabs is also illegal. For example I can not say that the arabs shoot unarmed children in the back because a video shows two young men falling to the floor. Nor can I say that arabs use the blood of Christian children to make bread for Eid. If you want to say that the Israeli politicians are making the wrong decisions that is fine, but to claim that they are brutally treating the Palestinians and infringing their rights while breaking the Geneva conventions then you have overstepped the boundary of free speech and are in the realms of racism, anti Semitism and incitement to violence

I have not incited anything. I am entitled to my opinion, as are you, and there is nothing illegal about it.

Though I have not said it anywhere, Israeli brutality towards Palestinians is as easy to show as Palestinian brutality towards Israelis so there is no libel there. The Geneva Convention violations are in black and white so again no libel.

Once again you repeat ANTI SEMITISM, the Geneva convention spells out the rules and while Israel is proceeding within the framework of those rules it is not in breach of them. No matter how many ANTI SEMITIC, ISLAMONAZI, WHITE SUPREMACIST and NAZI sites you read and copy the rules explicit in the Geneva conventions have not been broken. If you look at those sites locations you will see that they are in countries that don't have laws against racially abusing the Jews.

So by repeating the false claims you have committed ANTI SEMITISM, RACISM, INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE and INCITEMENT TO RELIGOUS INTOLERANCE. Any prosecutor would have a field day taking apart your defence and adding more and more charges to your rap sheet.

So maybe you could pick those alleged breaches from the Geneva conventions and in your own words show how Israel has stepped over the line.


A clue to your imminent failure is the source of the original BLOOD LIBEL was the ISLAMONAZIS who cherry picked half sentences from the Geneva conventions and disregarded the rest to show that Israel had breached the article.

 

[Phoenall]

Proof?


In 1975 the UN passed a resolution stating Zionism is racism. This wasn't changed until 1991. So you want to listen to the UN about racism you go right ahead.

Under common International law Jews are 3 things, a nation, a religion and a separate race. You can not alter that fact without changing International law.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewnation.html

Judaism can be thought of as being simultaneously a religion, a nationality and a culture.

Actually what you linked said they are a nation, religion, and a culture, not a race.

Depends on who you ask, and the German Nazis claimed that the Jews were a race. As do the muslims of what ever race they may be. This is a bone of contention to them as they can never be a distinct race, unlike the majority of Jews who have the same racial characteristics down to the mitochondrial level.

 

[Phoenall]

I understand what you are saying. I understand that inciting violence is wrong. This includes violence against any group just because they are a member of that group. But people can voice opinions and say things that do not promote violence. Violence against Jews is antisemitic. Saying you hate Jews is antisemitic. Only one of those is illegal.

Can a Jew stand on a street corner and profess his hatred of blacks? Of course he can, and black is an actual race. If he backs up his words with actions, that's when it becomes illegal.

You really need to understand what constitutes free speech. You can not shout fire in a theatre for example, nor can you say you have a bomb if you are in a plane. Those are obvious examples of breaches of free speech but not so obvious is saying things like " those bloody Jews have mooched 3 billion from the taxpayer again this year". That is racism, anti Semitism and incitement to violence even though you think it is acceptable speech. The fine line is when a person finds your words offensive then it is no longer free speech

Those things aren't even remotely the same. You can't equate a person professing their beliefs with someone calling in a bomb threat!! Also, I believe the original point was that Israel mooched money, not the Jews. Not that it matters because either way it is perfectly legal to say it.

They are exactly the same thing as both could incite panic. Does not matter if the original point was Israel, the Jews or Zionists they all mean the same thing to the JEW HATERS. Just as prior to 1960 if you called an arab muslim a Palestinian you faced death for the insult as that was reserved for the Jews as a swear word.

Unless you had definitive proof then it is not OK to say it as it is RACISM and LIBEL, remember repeating an untruth is a criminal offence and a civil offence.