Maccabi Tel Aviv Victory Sparks Torrent of Anti-Semitic Abuse

[Phoenall]

Having a strong dislike for Israeli politicians does not make one an anti Semite.

But saying "Too bad hitler didn't finish the job" and "go to the gas chambers" is.

Stop making it about Israel when the thread clearly states this hate is against Jews.

Either you guys don't know how to read or you chose to play dumb.

In was responding to a comment. And yes, those statements are obviously antisemitic, but not illegal.

Lets get one thing straight shall we anti Semitism is racism against the Jews, that is the religion, the nation, the race and the culture. Yes it is illegal, and if you don't believe me go and ask a Lawyer for the laws interpretation on the crime. If the same sort of things were said about the muslims you would be the first to scream ISLAMOPHOBIA or RACISM, something like " the serbs should finished the Job " or " The crusaders should have wiped them all out" would be a crime in any civilised country.

 

[Phoenall]

But saying "Too bad hitler didn't finish the job" and "go to the gas chambers" is.

Stop making it about Israel when the thread clearly states this hate is against Jews.

Either you guys don't know how to read or you chose to play dumb.

In was responding to a comment. And yes, those statements are obviously antisemitic, but not illegal.

In that case, "Price tag" is not illegal, either.

Which of course, is idiotic.

Next he will come up with the old ISLAMINAZI standby that shooting Israelis is not terrorism because they all have to serve in the armed forces, so is not illegal.

 

[Phoenall]

Jews aren't a race and antisemitic speech isn't illegal. Feel free to show how either is.

It wasn't illegal in 39's Europe.

There are certain aspects of "free speech" which shouldn't be acceptable.

Calling for politic murder is also free speech. You tolerant that, too?

Acceptable and illegal are very different things. We might even agree on things that are not acceptable but we don't get to decide if that is illegal.

I have know people over the years that despise Jews, for whatever reason. I have never seen any of them harm a Jew or call for any Jews to be harmed. Are they antisemitic? Yes. Are their words, thoughts, beliefs, illegal? Of course not.

If they speak anti semitic words then they are acting illegally. The very act of speaking those words could incite another person to take matters into their own hands and kill someone. Once you realise that the laws are very explicit in what constitutes racism via anti Semitism then you will realise that you are walking a very fine line.

 

[Phoenall]

I hate the Yankees. They're from New York so I throw that in too when I mock them. If they had a common religion I would include also. Get over it. Sports fans do this kind of stuff.

And when it leads to violence and murder it is too late to stamp it out. In the UK we have had problems with sport fans using sport as an excuse for violence and murder. It is so bad that Scotland passed new laws to bring about an end to sectarian racist abuse, violence and incitement. Certain teams have a bad reputation as far as their fans are concerned and they will attack anyone that is not wearing their colours, the more injuries and fear they can instill the better they feel.

Not that long ago it was not seen and fans from both teams would mingle together and enjoy the spectacle, now they are segregated and herded like wild aninals

 

[Phoenall]

Acceptable and illegal are very different things. We might even agree on things that are not acceptable but we don't get to decide if that is illegal.

I have know people over the years that despise Jews, for whatever reason. I have never seen any of them harm a Jew or call for any Jews to be harmed. Are they antisemitic? Yes. Are their words, thoughts, beliefs, illegal? Of course not.

You can think whatever you like. But You know how many times "Web Bullying" turned into actual violence? Way too many.

And web bullying is forbidden in places like the united states. By law. Twitter goes into that, as well.

And one cannot deny that anti-semitic slander goes waaaay into catagoric of "bullying".

Someone saying " I hate Jews" and someone saying "I hate you because you are a Jew and you should die" are dramatically different things.

They are until the person saying " I hate Jews " expands on his hatred and says things like "because they are Nazi's" or because "they murder innocent Palestinian children" then it becomes hate speech.

 

[dilloduck]

This national-level feeding frenzy that accompanies World-class football (soccer) playoffs and championships has always repelled and fascinated me simultaneously.

The national and ethnic (and, apparently, religious) hatreds that rise to the surface at such times tell me that we (the human race) are still red-eyed savages, despite the thin veneer of law and civilization that we like to delude ourselves will prevent bad things from happening or enduring.

This is about Jews----stop stealing their thunder.

 

[BobbyMac]

I would think that anyohe standing on a street corner professing his hatred of Black with others standing around who upon hearing the hater vomit out his words would be incited would be at the very least told to move on, if not held for questioning. However, it was interesting to read in my local paper at one time how a Black youth was beaten up by young Whites, and the police found stuff from NeoNazis hate sites downloaded on their computers. Strange that you should bring up Blacks because most of the hate crimes here in the U.S. are against the Jews and the Blacks.

The police would have no justification to hold that person for questioning since they have broken no law. This is not about what was said but the right to say it.

They have if they did it with the sole intention of inciting violence, and it does not need to be black on white violence either. So would fall foul of Freedom of Speech

OK I will dumb this down as best as I can...

Inciting violence is a far cry from someone standing on a corner saying he hates (insert any subset of the human race here).

You can stand on the street 2 feet away from a cop and tell him you hate his guts and there isn't a damn thing he can do about it. Start yelling "kill the police" and that's a whole different ballgame.

 

[BobbyMac]

Still making libellous comments about the Jews is illegal, just as making libellous comments about arabs is also illegal. For example I can not say that the arabs shoot unarmed children in the back because a video shows two young men falling to the floor. Nor can I say that arabs use the blood of Christian children to make bread for Eid. If you want to say that the Israeli politicians are making the wrong decisions that is fine, but to claim that they are brutally treating the Palestinians and infringing their rights while breaking the Geneva conventions then you have overstepped the boundary of free speech and are in the realms of racism, anti Semitism and incitement to violence

I have not incited anything. I am entitled to my opinion, as are you, and there is nothing illegal about it.

Though I have not said it anywhere, Israeli brutality towards Palestinians is as easy to show as Palestinian brutality towards Israelis so there is no libel there. The Geneva Convention violations are in black and white so again no libel.

Once again you repeat ANTI SEMITISM, the Geneva convention spells out the rules and while Israel is proceeding within the framework of those rules it is not in breach of them. No matter how many ANTI SEMITIC, ISLAMONAZI, WHITE SUPREMACIST and NAZI sites you read and copy the rules explicit in the Geneva conventions have not been broken. If you look at those sites locations you will see that they are in countries that don't have laws against racially abusing the Jews.

So by repeating the false claims you have committed ANTI SEMITISM, RACISM, INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE and INCITEMENT TO RELIGOUS INTOLERANCE. Any prosecutor would have a field day taking apart your defence and adding more and more charges to your rap sheet.

So maybe you could pick those alleged breaches from the Geneva conventions and in your own words show how Israel has stepped over the line.


A clue to your imminent failure is the source of the original BLOOD LIBEL was the ISLAMONAZIS who cherry picked half sentences from the Geneva conventions and disregarded the rest to show that Israel had breached the article.

There are so many it would use up this board's server.

GENEVA — Israel has pursued a creeping annexation of the Palestinian territories through the creation of Jewish settlements and committed multiple violations of international law, possibly including war crimes, a United Nations panel said Thursday, calling for an immediate halt to all settlement activity and the withdrawal of all settlers.
Presenting their findings in Geneva after a nearly six-month inquiry for the United Nations Human Rights Council, a panel of three judges, led by Christine Chanet of France, presented its view that Israel’s settlements violated the Geneva Conventions, which prohibit a state from transferring its own civilian population into territory it has occupied.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/01/w...aeli-settlement-policy-violates-law.html?_r=0

Google Israeli Geneva Convention and UN resolution violations. Better bring a sandwich, it might take awhile.

 

[Sally]

The police would have no justification to hold that person for questioning since they have broken no law. This is not about what was said but the right to say it.

They have if they did it with the sole intention of inciting violence, and it does not need to be black on white violence either. So would fall foul of Freedom of Speech

OK I will dumb this down as best as I can...

Inciting violence is a far cry from someone standing on a corner saying he hates (insert any subset of the human race here).



You can stand on the street 2 feet away from a cop and tell him you hate his guts and there isn't a damn thing he can do about it. Start yelling "kill the police" and that's a whole different ballgame.

Actually, if there were other people around who are taking all of this in and are prone to violence, I would think the police officer would pull the guy in for inciting a potential riot. At the very least, someone on the street yelling things like that would be taken to the psych ward of some local hospital to be held for a 72-hour observation.

 

[BobbyMac]

Under common International law Jews are 3 things, a nation, a religion and a separate race. You can not alter that fact without changing International law.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewnation.html

Judaism can be thought of as being simultaneously a religion, a nationality and a culture.

Actually what you linked said they are a nation, religion, and a culture, not a race.

Depends on who you ask, and the German Nazis claimed that the Jews were a race. As do the muslims of what ever race they may be. This is a bone of contention to them as they can never be a distinct race, unlike the majority of Jews who have the same racial characteristics down to the mitochondrial level.

OK, one more time.....

Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.

Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).


So does your DNA match up with jews from Ethiopia? Does your DNA match Connie Chung?? Think not.

 

[Sally]

Actually what you linked said they are a nation, religion, and a culture, not a race.

Depends on who you ask, and the German Nazis claimed that the Jews were a race. As do the muslims of what ever race they may be. This is a bone of contention to them as they can never be a distinct race, unlike the majority of Jews who have the same racial characteristics down to the mitochondrial level.

OK, one more time.....

Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.

Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).


So does your DNA match up with jews from Ethiopia? Does your DNA match Connie Chung?? Think not.

A few months ago I was reading an article about a Black man here in Los Angeles. He had DNA testing done, and he found out that his roots weren't in the part of Africa that he thought they were, but in another part. And, the testing showed that his main ancestor was an Ashkenazi woman.

By the way, we all have come out of Africa from one man and one woman. Supposedly they lived at different times, but somehow they are out common ancestor. Several years back when I was reading a Bronx message board, two Irish Catholic men said that they sent in samples of their DNA, and it also showed in the results that they had ancestors coming out of Africa. In fact, one of them said that Scotland is named for a queen of Northern Africa. So here you have it -- you have Black ancestors like all the rest of us have. The further our ancestors moved away from the Equator, the lighter they became.

 

[BobbyMac]

They have if they did it with the sole intention of inciting violence, and it does not need to be black on white violence either. So would fall foul of Freedom of Speech

OK I will dumb this down as best as I can...

Inciting violence is a far cry from someone standing on a corner saying he hates (insert any subset of the human race here).



You can stand on the street 2 feet away from a cop and tell him you hate his guts and there isn't a damn thing he can do about it. Start yelling "kill the police" and that's a whole different ballgame.

Actually, if there were other people around who are taking all of this in and are prone to violence, I would think the police officer would pull the guy in for inciting a potential riot. At the very least, someone on the street yelling things like that would be taken to the psych ward of some local hospital to be held for a 72-hour observation.

He can walk through Times Square with a sign professing his hatred and it is perfectly legal 1st amendment protected speech. If that sign says kill the (blacks whites catholics jews muslims etc.) then he is inciting violence, which is not protected speech.

 

[Sally]

OK I will dumb this down as best as I can...

Inciting violence is a far cry from someone standing on a corner saying he hates (insert any subset of the human race here).



You can stand on the street 2 feet away from a cop and tell him you hate his guts and there isn't a damn thing he can do about it. Start yelling "kill the police" and that's a whole different ballgame.

Actually, if there were other people around who are taking all of this in and are prone to violence, I would think the police officer would pull the guy in for inciting a potential riot. At the very least, someone on the street yelling things like that would be taken to the psych ward of some local hospital to be held for a 72-hour observation.

He can walk through Times Square with a sign professing his hatred and it is perfectly legal 1st amendment protected speech. If that sign says kill the (blacks whites catholics jews muslims etc.) then he is inciting violence, which is not protected speech.

Sounds like you have done something like this yourself since you seem obsessed with this.
It would really take a mentally ill person to walk around Times Square with a sign like that.

 

[BobbyMac]

Depends on who you ask, and the German Nazis claimed that the Jews were a race. As do the muslims of what ever race they may be. This is a bone of contention to them as they can never be a distinct race, unlike the majority of Jews who have the same racial characteristics down to the mitochondrial level.

OK, one more time.....

Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.

Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).


So does your DNA match up with jews from Ethiopia? Does your DNA match Connie Chung?? Think not.

A few months ago I was reading an article about a Black man here in Los Angeles. He had DNA testing done, and he found out that his roots weren't in the part of Africa that he thought they were, but in another part. And, the testing showed that his main ancestor was an Ashkenazi woman.

By the way, we all have come out of Africa from one man and one woman. Supposedly they lived at different times, but somehow they are out common ancestor. Several years back when I was reading a Bronx message board, two Irish Catholic men said that they sent in samples of their DNA, and it also showed in the results that they had ancestors coming out of Africa. In fact, one of them said that Scotland is named for a queen of Northern Africa. So here you have it -- you have Black ancestors like all the rest of us have. The further our ancestors moved away from the Equator, the lighter they became.

Aside from the Adam and Eve reference, the rest is true. My point is, you can't look at a DNA sample and say that person is Jewish or Christian or Budist.

 

[BobbyMac]

Actually, if there were other people around who are taking all of this in and are prone to violence, I would think the police officer would pull the guy in for inciting a potential riot. At the very least, someone on the street yelling things like that would be taken to the psych ward of some local hospital to be held for a 72-hour observation.

He can walk through Times Square with a sign professing his hatred and it is perfectly legal 1st amendment protected speech. If that sign says kill the (blacks whites catholics jews muslims etc.) then he is inciting violence, which is not protected speech.

Sounds like you have done something like this yourself since you seem obsessed with this.
It would really take a mentally ill person to walk around Times Square with a sign like that.

Lol, no I haven't and yes such a person might be a bit "off", but such an action is legal. That is the only point I have been trying to make.

 

[Sally]

He can walk through Times Square with a sign professing his hatred and it is perfectly legal 1st amendment protected speech. If that sign says kill the (blacks whites catholics jews muslims etc.) then he is inciting violence, which is not protected speech.

Sounds like you have done something like this yourself since you seem obsessed with this.
It would really take a mentally ill person to walk around Times Square with a sign like that.

Lol, no I haven't and yes such a person might be a bit "off", but such an action is legal. That is the only point I have been trying to make.

You seem very obsessed with this subject, almost as if you wish you were there to boo the Maccabees. There has been too much violence against the Jews in Europe today, and this incident can only serve as an impetus to push this violence further.

 

[aris2chat]

>>Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995. Negationism Law ... LAW No 90-615 to repress acts of racism, anti-semitism and xenophobia (1990).<<
In France and Germany anti-semitism and holocause denial are banned. Publishing or posting on the internet things that are anti-semitic usually are removed if found automatically or reported.
Some states like California have passed anti-semitic laws (HR 35).
Free speech does not mean hate speech. It is not free to incite others to commit crimes or injure others (singular or group). Not free to threaten or otherwise cause harm or fear. The right of the speaker has to be responsible for both actions and words. We have to respect others their their rights.

I understand what you are saying. I understand that inciting violence is wrong. This includes violence against any group just because they are a member of that group. But people can voice opinions and say things that do not promote violence. Violence against Jews is antisemitic. Saying you hate Jews is antisemitic. Only one of those is illegal.

Can a Jew stand on a street corner and profess his hatred of blacks? Of course he can, and black is an actual race. If he backs up his words with actions, that's when it becomes illegal.

You really need to understand what constitutes free speech. You can not shout fire in a theatre for example, nor can you say you have a bomb if you are in a plane. Those are obvious examples of breaches of free speech but not so obvious is saying things like " those bloody Jews have mooched 3 billion from the taxpayer again this year". That is racism, anti Semitism and incitement to violence even though you think it is acceptable speech. The fine line is when a person finds your words offensive then it is no longer free speech

Most places have libel and slander laws on the books which covers disinformation and hateful lies. There are listings of sites that fall under hate speech and defamation. There are sites that the government tracks or that should be have warning labels and age limits. SPLC is one of the most noted for listing such groups and/or web sites

 

[BobbyMac]

Sounds like you have done something like this yourself since you seem obsessed with this.
It would really take a mentally ill person to walk around Times Square with a sign like that.

Lol, no I haven't and yes such a person might be a bit "off", but such an action is legal. That is the only point I have been trying to make.

You seem very obsessed with this subject, almost as if you wish you were there to boo the Maccabees. There has been too much violence against the Jews in Europe today, and this incident can only serve as an impetus to push this violence further.

I am obsessed with rights. I could care less about Euro Sports.

 

[Sally]

Lol, no I haven't and yes such a person might be a bit "off", but such an action is legal. That is the only point I have been trying to make.

You seem very obsessed with this subject, almost as if you wish you were there to boo the Maccabees. There has been too much violence against the Jews in Europe today, and this incident can only serve as an impetus to push this violence further.

I am obsessed with rights. I could care less about Euro Sports.

Lots of wrongs going on in the rest of the Middle East; however, you don't seem to be obsessed with the wrongs happening there. Meanwhile, carry on. You have only been here for about three days and you will probaably hit 100 posts before long.

 

[BobbyMac]

You seem very obsessed with this subject, almost as if you wish you were there to boo the Maccabees. There has been too much violence against the Jews in Europe today, and this incident can only serve as an impetus to push this violence further.

I am obsessed with rights. I could care less about Euro Sports.

Lots of wrongs going on in the rest of the Middle East; however, you don't seem to be obsessed with the wrongs happening there. Meanwhile, carry on. You have only been here for about three days and you will probaably hit 100 posts before long.

Too many wrongs going on over there. Iranian kids arrested for being happy???? C'mon!!