Looks like Putin has betrayed the western world

[Avatar4321]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051205/ap_on_re_eu/russia_iran_arms

Thanks for nothing Russia.

 

[Mr. P]

Russia, which has a long and lucrative relationship with Iran, has offered to try to resolve a key dispute by offering to enrich uranium for an Iranian civilian nuclear energy program as a safeguard against Iran using enrichment for weapons purposes.

W better get off his ass before chit gets way out of hand.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051205/ap_on_re_eu/russia_iran_arms

Thanks for nothing Russia.

This is no suprise!

 

[Zhukov]

At least they're only short range SAM's. Let them waste their money. They represent no insurmountable obstacle to either us or the Israelis.

We just need to make sure that that is all they are buying.

 

[TheButlerDidIt]

My guess is that what they admit to and the truth are two different things.

 

[dilloduck]

My guess is that what they admit to and the truth are two different things.

I'm with you!

 

[deaddude]

Why do we partiularly care?

Seriously, if they arent nukes (which russia is not going to give to the Iranians) what does it realy matter to us. These are short ranged weapons, the chances for an attack on the US using these weapons is nil. Why do we care? I am not being sarcastic, I am looking for info.

 

[Zhukov]

I'll tell you why we should not only care, but only half object to this:

We can take out any SAM installation with a tomahawk without risking any pilots, only money.

Any SAM defenses the Iranians are constructing are because they fear a repeat of the Israeli attack on the Iraqi nuclear facility back in the mid-80's. They are hiding their facilities, as opposed to the Iraqis who constructed in the open, but the Mossad is good and they can't be sure their sites are secure. So they place SAM sites between their sites and any approaches to them the Israeli air force might use.

Why only half object?

Because satellite reconnaisance of where they put these SAMs will give us a good idea where their nuclear weapons projects are being conducted.

These SAMs will tell us where the Iranian nukes are.



So you will hear complaints. But we won't do anything to stop this sale.

 

[Mr. P]

I'll tell you why we should not only care, but only half object to this:

We can take out any SAM installation with a tomahawk without risking any pilots, only money.

Any SAM defenses the Iranians are constructing are because they fear a repeat of the Israeli attack on the Iraqi nuclear facility back in the mid-80's. They are hiding their facilities, as opposed to the Iraqis who constructed in the open, but the Mossad is good and they can't be sure their sites are secure. So they place SAM sites between their sites and any approaches to them the Israeli air force might use.

Why only half object?

Because satellite reconnaisance of where they put these SAMs will give us a good idea where their nuclear weapons projects are being conducted.

These SAMs will tell us where the Iranian nukes are.



So you will hear complaints. But we won't do anything to stop this sale.

Funny how things work ain’t it? Just think, the Russians
launched Sputnik and that launched our space program, that made our intel-satellites possible to track their SAMs sold to Iran.

 

[Semper Fi]

Amazing. Only last year was thier incident with the School attack. Yet they still support countries which (probably) have ties with terrorism.

 

[TheButlerDidIt]

While in russia I was suprised to find that not only do the russian people not view the chechen rebels in the same light as middle east terrorists, niether does their government. The only logical explanation I was ever given was by a storekeeper in moscow who said "Russia has always had opressed people who will struggle and fight for more freedom"

 

[Semper Fi]

While in russia I was suprised to find that not only do the russian people not view the chechen rebels in the same light as middle east terrorists, niether does their government. The only logical explanation I was ever given was by a storekeeper in moscow who said "Russia has always had opressed people who will struggle and fight for more freedom"

But the tactics are essentially the same, both ethnicities of terrorists attacked 'soft targets' via cellular units, so whether the people behind the masks are Muslims or Chechnyans really shouldn't make a difference. How they can look past that is beyond me.

 

[Zhukov]

Russians are good at lying to themselves.

 

[deaddude]

The United States and Russia are supporting efforts by the European Union to persuade Iran to halt development of nuclear weapons in exchange for economic incentives, such as trade opportunities.

Russia, which has a long and lucrative relationship with Iran, has offered to try to resolve a key dispute by offering to enrich uranium for an Iranian civilian nuclear energy program as a safeguard against Iran using enrichment for weapons purposes.

Same article as the link above

This looks to me like Russia is trying to make everyone happy, Iran gets their power supply, we can be reasonalby assured that weapons are not being produced. Every one wins. If Russia enriching the uranium for Iran actually does act as a "safeguard against Iran using enrichment for weapons purposes," than what is our objection.

 

[Zhukov]

This looks to me like Russia is trying to make everyone happy, Iran gets their power supply, we can be reasonalby assured that weapons are not being produced. Every one wins. If Russia enriching the uranium for Iran actually does act as a "safeguard against Iran using enrichment for weapons purposes," than what is our objection.

Well, do you believe the Iranians are really only interested in nuclear power for domestic energy needs?

 

[deaddude]

Well, do you believe the Iranians are really only interested in nuclear power for domestic energy needs?

No, not realy, however if the Russians enriching it for the Iranians ensures that it cannot be enriched for weapons purposes then I see very little problem. I do not think that Russia wants Iran to have nukes any more than we do, they are working with us on THIS issue in the UN (yes I know many of your oppinions of the UN, I am citing it as a case of Russian cooperation with the US, not as a "the un is wonderful" example). Also I do not think that bombing powerplants into dust is a good idea, for US or Isreal.

 

[Zhukov]

No, not realy, however if the Russians enriching it for the Iranians ensures that it cannot be enriched for weapons purposes then I see very little problem. I do not think that Russia wants Iran to have nukes any more than we do,...

No, in the end I don't think they do either.

I'm not sure how much you know about how nuclear reactors work but here's how this Russia-Iranian situation would supposedly work:

Someone mines raw uranium.

This uranium goes to the Russians who enrich with equipment we don't want the Iranians to have because enriching to fuel grade is one step removed from enriching to weapons grade.

The Russians put the fuel rods into the reactor themselves and the Iranians are not allowed to remove them. Seals are placed that would need to be broken to retrieve the rods.

When the rods are spent, the Russians return, remove the old rods themselves, and replace them with new rods with new seals.




Here's the problem:

'Spent' fuel rods contain weapons grade plutonium. The reactor process itself is in effect a method for creating the material for an atomic device.

The Russians aren't going to be guarding those rods with soldiers and tanks. Like I said, there will be only seals.....and an honor system that the Iranians will not remove the rods.

Why do we care? Because we don't trust the Iranians.

Why don't we trust the Iranians? Because they say publically they want nuclear weapons, and when they get them they plan to use them.

That is in sum our objection.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Even those who know alot about nuclear power, Iran and Russia, the UN, etc, etc, dont know alot of what goes on behind closed doors.

Having said that, Im in even a worse posistion cuz Im not up to speed on any of those except to say I dont TRUST ANY OF THEM.

The Korean sitution, for which Bush has been highly assailed by the left, (and I dont think the American public for the most part swallowed that bait), was left mostly in the hands of the Chinese, Japanese and Russians.

It was smart strategy on Bushes part. Kerry, if he was only blowing hot air or really intended to do so, was proposing to shift the negotiations elsewhere, which would have been really stupid, but I think he was only using it as a possible attack point, and wouldnt have changed a thing.

It seems, here again, the Russians would be much more concerned about nukes in Iran than the US. I mean, sure, the average russian doesnt see arab terrorists the same as the ones in the eastern europe theatre, but Putin isnt so damn stupid to think Iran wouldnt use them in a heartbeat against Russia if Iran felt the need.

My instinct is to let the Russians handle this one, and that our intell is good enough and our leadership good enough to know if thats the best route also.

Who knows, all those UFO's, might be secret American flying saucers able to take out a nuke at lift off (Im kinda serious)

 

[deaddude]

No, in the end I don't think they do either.

I'm not sure how much you know about how nuclear reactors work but here's how this Russia-Iranian situation would supposedly work:

Someone mines raw uranium.

This uranium goes to the Russians who enrich with equipment we don't want the Iranians to have because enriching to fuel grade is one step removed from enriching to weapons grade.

The Russians put the fuel rods into the reactor themselves and the Iranians are not allowed to remove them. Seals are placed that would need to be broken to retrieve the rods.

When the rods are spent, the Russians return, remove the old rods themselves, and replace them with new rods with new seals.




Here's the problem:

'Spent' fuel rods contain weapons grade plutonium. The reactor process itself is in effect a method for creating the material for an atomic device.

The Russians aren't going to be guarding those rods with soldiers and tanks. Like I said, there will be only seals.....and an honor system that the Iranians will not remove the rods.

Why do we care? Because we don't trust the Iranians.

Why don't we trust the Iranians? Because they say publically they want nuclear weapons, and when they get them they plan to use them.

That is in sum our objection.

They have said that publicly!!!

Alright that seems like a very reasonable objection, however, I see compromise. The Iranians are for the moment saying that they would like to use the uranium that they have for civilian purposes like a power supply. The US or the Russians could very publicly offer to trade Electric power to the Iranians in exchange for their Uranium. That is we trade electric power equal to what their uranium could produce, they get their power supply and we get the sensitive material out of their hands. If they refuse then we can point it out as evidence that they are seeking WMDs.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

They have said that publicly!!!

Alright that seems like a very reasonable objection, however, I see compromise. The Iranians are for the moment saying that they would like to use the uranium that they have for civilian purposes like a power supply. The US or the Russians could very publicly offer to trade Electric power to the Iranians in exchange for their Uranium. That is we trade electric power equal to what their uranium could produce, they get their power supply and we get the sensitive material out of their hands. If they refuse then we can point it out as evidence that they are seeking WMDs.

day late, dollar short anyone?