little boy to his motherS I want to be a girl

[Ernie S.]

YOur idiotic argument is that this child is endangered because his lesbian parents are making the wrong decision on his behalf.

I maintain that it is up to the parents, and I assume the parents are responsible. You do not because you are so prejudiced against lesbians.

I don't care if his parents are Martians. They should let this child make his own decision when he reaches legal age to make it.

PLEASE stop presuming you know my motivation for anything, Sky.

Your previous statements prove otherwise. You have stated that lesbians have confusion about their gender and for that reason they are incapable of deciding what is in the best interest of their child.

Now you're trying to wiggle out of that position.

Let me find your exact words.

Here is your idiotic argument:

"No, silly, not because they are lesbian, but because they have a confused or unconventional sexual identity and have raised a child amid the confusion.
Suppose a child was raised by heterosexual parents both having only one arm. This child is raised in a home where the handicap is normal. Both parents appear to function well and take care of her well, love her and provide a stable environment.
Now, suppose at the age of 3, the child starts to wear her shirts with one arm inside, hidden from view. She is only emulating her parents, not asking that her arm be lopped off. Even she does, at 7, ask to have her arm removed so she's just like mommy and daddy, would you schedule her for surgery?"

Then I gave a hetero analogy that you can't seem to address. You assume because I mention that the boy's parents are lesbian, I hate lesbians.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Now, I'll leave you all to what you do best. RANT.

Have fun attacking my character for having a different view from you. My view is that it is up to the parents to make this call, and that I presume the parents love their children and want to do what is best for them.

THEY get to make this call. YOU don't.

Bye.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StHwAffUNxo]Run away! Run away! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Ernie S.]

Now, I'll leave you all to what you do best. RANT.

Have fun attacking my character for having a different view from you. My view is that it is up to the parents to make this call, and that I presume the parents love their children and want to do what is best for them.

THEY get to make this call. YOU don't.

Bye.

Did you leave USMB again?

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Now, I'll leave you all to what you do best. RANT.

Have fun attacking my character for having a different view from you. My view is that it is up to the parents to make this call, and that I presume the parents love their children and want to do what is best for them.

THEY get to make this call. YOU don't.

Bye.

Did you leave USMB again?

I guess it's that time of the week for her.

 

[Si modo]

My point exactly. Some of the posters on this thread have an ax to grind because the parents are lesbian. Their presumption is the parents are making the wrong call because they are lesbian.

They're making the wrong call because they are making the wrong call.

I don't care what version of plumbing they prefer.

YOU don't get to make that call. THEY DO. It's their kid, not yours. They are the parents.

....

Then, using your rationale, it is OK that parents make the call to beat children for discipline.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Damn, she ran away without even answering my questions.

So what happens if they start a child on these drugs when he/she is 11, and then he/she changes their mind at 18 and does not want to change their sex after all? How does the process get undone?

Do they administer yet more drugs to replace the 7 lost years of maturing? Or does the kid just have to live with body he/she ended up with for the rest of their life?

And I saw a previous post that said these drugs cause sterility. How does that get fixed if the child changes his/her mind?

 

[Si modo]

Now, I'll leave you all to what you do best. RANT.

Have fun attacking my character for having a different view from you. My view is that it is up to the parents to make this call, and that I presume the parents love their children and want to do what is best for them.

THEY get to make this call. YOU don't.

Bye.

Poor, poor Sky. You attack others when they disagree with you, then become a victim of attacks you imagine from them. That's a pretty fucked up view.

And, using your rationale, parents who make the call that using beating as a form of discipline is OK. They get to make that call.

Poor, poor Sky.

 

[manifold]

Using Sky's argument, children should be able to consent to having sex.

And Muslims should have every right to preform female circumcisions on their daughters.

Yup. And don't forget about religious nutters that don't believe in medical treatment. No charges of negligence if they let their kid die when a simple shot of antibiotics would've saved his life.

 

[boedicca]

In other news, Jerry Brown has signed a law that prohibits minors (under 18 years of age) from using tanning beds.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/09/us-california-tanning-idUSTRE7982DJ20111009

So, it's okay for parents to have their sons penii whacked off to turn them into girls, but a dark tan, Oh The Horror!

 

[Si modo]

Using Sky's argument, children should be able to consent to having sex.

And Muslims should have every right to preform female circumcisions on their daughters.

Yup. And don't forget about religious nutters that don't believe in medical treatment. No charges of negligence if they let their kid die when a simple shot of antibiotics would've saved his life.

Another good example.

 

[Money]

This is another perverse creation of the American Accept-o-thon.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

This is another perverse creation of the American Accept-o-thon.

I don't accept it.

 

[Againsheila]

Let this child be the kid he is. Not the one that YOU think he should be. Let these families make their own heartfelt decisions on behalf of the child they love.

Educate yourself about transgender people. Meet some. Talk to them. Listen and open your mind. You might learn something.

What kid do you think I think he should be? He's a CHILD, let him be a child. No one should have the right to make a decision like this for a child, not even the child, and most especially not at SEVEN!!!!

Defend these people all you like, I hope to hear this story again in the future and hopefully he/she will be happy, but I heartily doubt it.

I went into the conversation thinking it was wrong to let a young child make the decision to change his or her gender. I came out of lunch thinking, "I have to help this woman find friends for her daughter. Her daughter who has a penis."

And I also thought, "This has to be the toughest parenting decision a person could have to make."

What changed my mind? Listening to Jen's story. She talked of her daughter's pain and isolation, how she asked, "Am I the only one?"

Can you imagine how you would feel if your child asked you if he or she was the only person in the world with such a primal problem? I thought of my own daughter and how I would do anything to help her grow up as secure and happy as possible, and I realized if I were in Jen's place, I would be there at the therapist every week, just like she is. I would be searching the world for other boys who believed they were girls. I would be traveling to transgendered conferences wearing a t-shirt saying, "I'm from Chicago," just like Jen is.

We can't judge until we've walked in her shoes. Jen's certainly not crazy, and I doubt her kid is, either. We know many aspects of humanity operate on a spectrum, and gender is just another component of humanity.

Transgendered Children | BlogHer

No you didn't. You immediately started in on transgender children and defended these parents for giving hormone treatment to their 7 year old child.

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't come to this discussion with an open mind either. Whenever a child is concerned, my maternal instincts immediately go into overdrive to protect that child.

Giving hormone treatment to a 7 year old is detrimental to ANY child. Furthermore, his injections are estrogen...many cancers are estrogen fed. That decreases the chances of this child living a normal lifespan right there. Who would do that to a child when it's not necessary?

My niece at 7 told me she was a boy. I wanted to be a boy when I was a kid. You ignore the fact that most children do want to be the opposite sex at some point or other in their life. Imagine how messed up the world would be if all those kids parents immediately started them on hormone treatments?

You are concerned with this kid committing suicide if he's not raised as a girl, I'm concerned with possible suicide, cancer, and many other problems caused by parents jumping the gun and trying to change their 7 year old child's sex.

If I'm going to err, I'd rather err on the side with the numbers. Very few kids who say they want to be the opposite sex, ever end up being the opposite sex, or wanting to after puberty. VERY FEW...why don't you find the statistics on those Sky? Oh wait, you can't, because most parents recognize that children as young as 7 don't know what they really want and so don't report it or mention it to anyone much less start hormone therapy on them.

 

[BDBoop]

BBC NEWS | Health | Scans see 'gay brain differences'

But then again.......you Christian fundamentalists are going to keep calling it a "sin", because you believe in your interpretations of the Bible rather than what it actually says, and you choose to ignore science and reality.

Exactly. And it seems no matter how many times I post this video, nobody ever addresses it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwjCppq82c]Are we born straight or gay? - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

 

[BDBoop]

Really? Then if they wanted to "make" one, why did they take them to a psychotherapist first?

you'd have to get into the minds of faggots to understand why they do what they do. Thats a question I cannot answer.

Further up the thread, I posted a study done by Swiss scientists who actually DID look into the brains of both gay and straight people via MRI.

I'd trust the scientists who have actual data and facts before even considering the ideas of some bigoted asshole with an axe to grind.

Another interesting piece.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe58_vd_5g4]Brain scan results - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

 

[BDBoop]

Dr. Johanna Olson runs the Transgender Youth Clinic at Childrens Hospital Los Angeles, one of the most highly regarded centers in the country for kids like Jackie. It has treated approximately 600 transgender kids.

"We often ask parents, Would you rather have a dead son than a live daughter? … These kids have a suicide rate that is astronomical compared to any other group," she said.

Olson says you can't force kids to be a gender they don't think they are. Gender identity isn't a choice; it's set at birth. Kids know whether they're a boy or a girl on the inside by the age of three or four.
Transgender Kids Pioneer Early Changes to Identity, Body - ABC News

Okay - what about a middle of the road approach? Let the child live as the gender they identify with, as much as possible, without any medical treatment. Like Shiloh Jolie-Pitt. She identifies as male. So she has the short hair, the boys clothes (including swim trunks), wants to be called by a boy name ... so why not? Love and accept them as they are, and promise you'll be there for them no matter what, but it's better for them to actually make that decision as an adult.

 

[Si modo]

BBC NEWS | Health | Scans see 'gay brain differences'

But then again.......you Christian fundamentalists are going to keep calling it a "sin", because you believe in your interpretations of the Bible rather than what it actually says, and you choose to ignore science and reality.

Exactly. And it seems no matter how many times I post this video, nobody ever addresses it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwjCppq82c]Are we born straight or gay? - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

Gays are not transgenders nor the inverse. You know that, right?

 

[RadiomanATL]

BBC NEWS | Health | Scans see 'gay brain differences'

But then again.......you Christian fundamentalists are going to keep calling it a "sin", because you believe in your interpretations of the Bible rather than what it actually says, and you choose to ignore science and reality.

Exactly. And it seems no matter how many times I post this video, nobody ever addresses it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwjCppq82c]Are we born straight or gay? - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

Maybe if you posted it in the proper thread people might not ignore it. As it is, it's just a non-sequitor here.

Gay =/= Transgender. Just an FYI.

 

[BDBoop]

BBC NEWS | Health | Scans see 'gay brain differences'

But then again.......you Christian fundamentalists are going to keep calling it a "sin", because you believe in your interpretations of the Bible rather than what it actually says, and you choose to ignore science and reality.

Exactly. And it seems no matter how many times I post this video, nobody ever addresses it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwjCppq82c]Are we born straight or gay? - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

Gays are not transgenders nor the inverse. You know that, right?

Of course. But we were on a different subject at the point where I posted, in response to Biker's link.

My sister is a lesbian. My friend is m2f transgender (straight) - so yes. I do know that. Right.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Dr. Johanna Olson runs the Transgender Youth Clinic at Childrens Hospital Los Angeles, one of the most highly regarded centers in the country for kids like Jackie. It has treated approximately 600 transgender kids.

"We often ask parents, Would you rather have a dead son than a live daughter? … These kids have a suicide rate that is astronomical compared to any other group," she said.

Olson says you can't force kids to be a gender they don't think they are. Gender identity isn't a choice; it's set at birth. Kids know whether they're a boy or a girl on the inside by the age of three or four.
Transgender Kids Pioneer Early Changes to Identity, Body - ABC News

Okay - what about a middle of the road approach? Let the child live as the gender they identify with, as much as possible, without any medical treatment. Like Shiloh Jolie-Pitt. She identifies as male. So she has the short hair, the boys clothes (including swim trunks), wants to be called by a boy name ... so why not? Love and accept them as they are, and promise you'll be there for them no matter what, but it's better for them to actually make that decision as an adult.

Thats fine, depending on the reasons the child wants it done.

But it's not the same thing as medically altering a child's body for the rest of their life.