Libs: What are your true cultural values?

[MaggieMae]

Be honest about these three conscience-raising values, NOT politically motivated based on ideology or agenda. Here's mine:

Abortion: First, a confession: I used to be pro-choice for all the politically correct reasons, until the day my niece, an RN who was living with us at the time, came home after her shift and described the unbelievable event that happened following a patient's miscarriage.

The two-month old fetus, presumed dead, had been placed in a metal bowl as it was expelled, when suddenly a tiny cavity opened (the mouth, although not distinguishable as such) and the fetus took a breath of air. In that instant, the film (not yet skin) covering the baby came alive with visible blood rushing throughout the formed veins of the tiny body, like watching an animated X-ray my niece said. It took less than 30 seconds for this incredible event, and then the child died because its organs were not yet able to sustain its life further. But that struggle for life was clear, even at that early stage.

My dilemma remains, however, how should society treat all the unwanted children?

Racial bigotry: Like the crutch that was the holocaust that some Jews continue to use to justify the attitude that the rest of the world owes them something, certain segments of the African-American community need to stop using slavery and other historical examples of oppression as their crutch to justify bad behavior and/or laziness. Nuff said.

Gays: Most of us who aren't gay don't understand the sexual component of homosexuality. Some, therefore, react with disgust which translates to hatred because of something they don't understand. Others will react with a shrug (me) since what goes on in a bedroom is highly personal anyway and I don't care what other people do.

I have another niece (I have several!) who is a 40-something Harvard professor, a witty and funny, warm woman who is also a lesbian. She also has absolutely no desire to "marry" anybody. She is simply more comfortable in the presence of women. Yet I also have a male friend who is gay, and finally married his partner of 20 years. They both had been accepted as a "couple" for many years, and no one thought anything of it. However, their "marriage" has lasted only two years, and now they want a divorce. Go figure. It just goes to show that people are people. Shit happens. Bottom line is that both are examples of human personality traits that affect homosexuals exactly the same as straight people.

Christianity: I find that the basic tenet of Christianity--do unto others--has been dramatically lost in translation over the years. Rather than going into more explanations of my own experiences, this recent proclamation by the Washington DC Catholic Diocese has me seeing red and is a perfect example of the hypocrisies we see so often with respect to the Christian faith (and I don't mean to single out Catholicism):

Catholic Church gives D.C. ultimatum on same-sex marriage issue - washingtonpost.com

A lot on the plate here, and maybe too much for people to explore their own deep thoughts. So if anyone cares to respond (in parts if you wish), please try to do it by expressing your own personal assessment of these three issues and not parrot your friends and relatives or your favorite blogger.

 

[rightwinger]

Abortion: I find it reprehensible, but the cat is out of the bag. We will never eliminate abortion, it is available around the world. I am a realist and know that neither abortion or gun ownership will be outlawed nation wide. Best option is to cut down the need for abortion.....Birth control, sex education, free neonatal care, assistance to single mothers

Racial bigotry: It is here, but not as bad as it once was. We have made enormous progress. We don't owe people anything other than a fair shake.....some groups still do not get a fair shake.
I believe most problems blacks face are due to black culture and not white descrimination. 70% of black children born to unwed mothers, limited emphasis on education, black on black crime, gangs, drugs...all are self inflicted and need to be handled within the black community

Gays: I still wince when I see gays kissing, but am willing to accept it. I think gays have a right to marry, raise children and do everything heterosexuals do. I look at what they do as having no impact on my life so leave them alone

Christianity: I am an atheist....I have been brought up Christian but just don't buy it as the truth. Most Christians are good people and do good for the community. I have problems with fundamentalists who are intolerant of others while demanding their own doctrine be accepted

 

[rdean]

Abortion - If the "anti" women's rights people put their money where their mouth is and actually came up with ways women who become pregnant for whatever reason could take care of those children, then I suspect that the numbers of abortion would drop dramatically.
Saying that women use abortion as "birth control" is a flat out lie. Sure, there may be a very few who are irresponsible, but if I hear one more, "I know a woman who has had 15 abortions because it's easier than birth control", I'm going to puke.
How many children are waiting to be adopted? That kind of tells the story.
The right flat out lies when they suggest the left has "abortion parties" and "have abortions for fun". No one likes abortion. But we already know for sure that women will have back alley dirty unbent hanger abortions if no other options. It was up until just a few days ago that anyone working for the RNC could get an abortion and the party would pay for it. Wonder how many used that "benefit"?

Racial bigotry? Living in Chicago, I know lots of black people. I work with black people. As far as I know, none belong to gangs. When I was in the military, I worked with lots of black people, none belonged to gangs. If you go to "white" ghettos, you will find lots of gang members, none of them black. The real problem here is poverty. An inner city black with that ignorant slang is looked askance just as much as that dumb hillbilly twang or that white south side Chicago drawl. Poverty and language skills. The two largest causes of bigotry. It call all be traced back to those.

Gays - Doesn't bother me seeing anyone kiss, unless it's like those young couples sitting in the park, or at the beach, or in a restaurant, swapping spit and rotating their heads while their mouths are pressed together wide open. Of course, I have never seen gays do that.
There are probably way more "swingers" than gays considering there are "swingers clubs" in every state in the union. And a 50% divorce rate.
When you look at gay contributions to society in science, literature, art, dance, music, architecture and so many other fields and look at the small and meager contributions of evangelicals, I would much rather have more gays. Who wouldn't?

Religion - it's just so stupid. Mysticism, ghosts, supernatural, occult, angels, devils, demons, sprites, deities, it's just stupid. It's like believing in Marvel Comics. And there is exactly the same amount of evidence. Exactly. Just wanting something to be real, doesn't make it real.

 

[MaggieMae]

Abortion: I find it reprehensible, but the cat is out of the bag. We will never eliminate abortion, it is available around the world. I am a realist and know that neither abortion or gun ownership will be outlawed nation wide. Best option is to cut down the need for abortion.....Birth control, sex education, free neonatal care, assistance to single mothers

Racial bigotry: It is here, but not as bad as it once was. We have made enormous progress. We don't owe people anything other than a fair shake.....some groups still do not get a fair shake.
I believe most problems blacks face are due to black culture and not white descrimination. 70% of black children born to unwed mothers, limited emphasis on education, black on black crime, gangs, drugs...all are self inflicted and need to be handled within the black community

Gays: I still wince when I see gays kissing, but am willing to accept it. I think gays have a right to marry, raise children and do everything heterosexuals do. I look at what they do as having no impact on my life so leave them alone

Christianity: I am an atheist....I have been brought up Christian but just don't buy it as the truth. Most Christians are good people and do good for the community. I have problems with fundamentalists who are intolerant of others while demanding their own doctrine be accepted

You think basically as I do.

 

[amrchaos]

Abortion--it can be eliminated, but the method of doing so is extremely costly and to be honest, I know that conservative values against Big Government and high taxes will keep it present. By the way--my views on abortion and parents rights actually are some what tied together. You see, I think the mother has the right to eliminate her kids at any point between abortion until the child leaves to fend for him/herself. I do not call this women rights--I call this parents rights(this includes how to raise the child, punishments befitting the child and so on. Only time Social welfare can be called in is when the parents give up on the child and refuse to remove them from this realm.)

Racial Bigotry. Is it a problem--depends on who you talk to. In general, it is nothing like the church burning, Gas chamber tosing, Trail of Tears marching, Irish starving bigotry of old. In fact, compare today with the past, and this look like a very tolerant and highly acceptive nation. On the other, prejudices are able to arise such as in the cases of tension that is brewing with muslims and non-mulims and the events in the middle(or here). If I were to assign a grade to our handling of it I would say somewhere between B+ and A, yet the target is still A++. Political correctness--that is just a method to hide peoples misconceptions about a group or individual and does not help in healing rifts. It should go.

Gays--I am a Homophobe when it concerns gay males. Yet I still think that gays should live life the way they please. Just, please, do not tell me to much. (With lesbians, I find that I am still a pervert. I know, I will not get any. But who knows, she maybe willing to try once!!)

Religion--Antoher Atheists here. I generally do not consider religion a bad thing for you. If it keep you functional and sane and bring your life great enrichment and joy, then I would argue you practicing the perfect faith. The concept of perfect being subjective here.

On the issue of the Catholic church--they are only doing what religions set out to do--influence man to behave in their ideal concept of man. Personally, I already posted what I think DC should do. But even I have to recognize that that the religious are going is to do what the religion told them to do.

Come to think about it. There is actually nothing seriously wrong in the Catholic church attempts in my opinion. It is just a bit brash and nothing more.

 

[MaggieMae]

Abortion - If the "anti" women's rights people put their money where their mouth is and actually came up with ways women who become pregnant for whatever reason could take care of those children, then I suspect that the numbers of abortion would drop dramatically.
Saying that women use abortion as "birth control" is a flat out lie. Sure, there may be a very few who are irresponsible, but if I hear one more, "I know a woman who has had 15 abortions because it's easier than birth control", I'm going to puke.
How many children are waiting to be adopted? That kind of tells the story.
The right flat out lies when they suggest the left has "abortion parties" and "have abortions for fun". No one likes abortion. But we already know for sure that women will have back alley dirty unbent hanger abortions if no other options. It was up until just a few days ago that anyone working for the RNC could get an abortion and the party would pay for it. Wonder how many used that "benefit"?

Racial bigotry? Living in Chicago, I know lots of black people. I work with black people. As far as I know, none belong to gangs. When I was in the military, I worked with lots of black people, none belonged to gangs. If you go to "white" ghettos, you will find lots of gang members, none of them black. The real problem here is poverty. An inner city black with that ignorant slang is looked askance just as much as that dumb hillbilly twang or that white south side Chicago drawl. Poverty and language skills. The two largest causes of bigotry. It call all be traced back to those.

Gays - Doesn't bother me seeing anyone kiss, unless it's like those young couples sitting in the park, or at the beach, or in a restaurant, swapping spit and rotating their heads while their mouths are pressed together wide open. Of course, I have never seen gays do that.
There are probably way more "swingers" than gays considering there are "swingers clubs" in every state in the union. And a 50% divorce rate.
When you look at gay contributions to society in science, literature, art, dance, music, architecture and so many other fields and look at the small and meager contributions of evangelicals, I would much rather have more gays. Who wouldn't?

Religion - it's just so stupid. Mysticism, ghosts, supernatural, occult, angels, devils, demons, sprites, deities, it's just stupid. It's like believing in Marvel Comics. And there is exactly the same amount of evidence. Exactly. Just wanting something to be real, doesn't make it real.

Good point about controlling abortiion on demand. I think Planned Parenthood tries to give advice, but unfortunately because of the nature of that organization, the advice is usually too late. There needs to be a group that becomes a household name whose sole goal is to provide counseling BEFORE a woman becomes pregnant, and those voices need to be forceful.

 

[alan1]

Be honest about these three conscience-raising values, NOT politically motivated based on ideology or agenda. Here's mine:

Abortion: First, a confession: I used to be pro-choice for all the politically correct reasons, until the day my niece, an RN who was living with us at the time, came home after her shift and described the unbelievable event that happened following a patient's miscarriage.

The two-month old fetus, presumed dead, had been placed in a metal bowl as it was expelled, when suddenly a tiny cavity opened (the mouth, although not distinguishable as such) and the fetus took a breath of air. In that instant, the film (not yet skin) covering the baby came alive with visible blood rushing throughout the formed veins of the tiny body, like watching an animated X-ray my niece said. It took less than 30 seconds for this incredible event, and then the child died because its organs were not yet able to sustain its life further. But that struggle for life was clear, even at that early stage.

My dilemma remains, however, how should society treat all the unwanted children?

Racial bigotry: Like the crutch that was the holocaust that some Jews continue to use to justify the attitude that the rest of the world owes them something, certain segments of the African-American community need to stop using slavery and other historical examples of oppression as their crutch to justify bad behavior and/or laziness. Nuff said.

Gays: Most of us who aren't gay don't understand the sexual component of homosexuality. Some, therefore, react with disgust which translates to hatred because of something they don't understand. Others will react with a shrug (me) since what goes on in a bedroom is highly personal anyway and I don't care what other people do.

I have another niece (I have several!) who is a 40-something Harvard professor, a witty and funny, warm woman who is also a lesbian. She also has absolutely no desire to "marry" anybody. She is simply more comfortable in the presence of women. Yet I also have a male friend who is gay, and finally married his partner of 20 years. They both had been accepted as a "couple" for many years, and no one thought anything of it. However, their "marriage" has lasted only two years, and now they want a divorce. Go figure. It just goes to show that people are people. Shit happens. Bottom line is that both are examples of human personality traits that affect homosexuals exactly the same as straight people.

Christianity: I find that the basic tenet of Christianity--do unto others--has been dramatically lost in translation over the years. Rather than going into more explanations of my own experiences, this recent proclamation by the Washington DC Catholic Diocese has me seeing red and is a perfect example of the hypocrisies we see so often with respect to the Christian faith (and I don't mean to single out Catholicism):

Catholic Church gives D.C. ultimatum on same-sex marriage issue - washingtonpost.com

A lot on the plate here, and maybe too much for people to explore their own deep thoughts. So if anyone cares to respond (in parts if you wish), please try to do it by expressing your own personal assessment of these three issues and not parrot your friends and relatives or your favorite blogger.

Abortion.....
I used to be against abortion no matter what. I've changed. The determining factor for the end of life is absence of brain waves. Let that same standard be the determining factor for the beginning of life as well. If brainwaves exist, don't abort.

 

[KittenKoder]

The title and post are well connected, like conservatives, it depends on who you are talking to.

For me the abortion issue is: if there is a need for it (justifiable and legitimate) only. As a quick fix birth control, no. Each case has to be taken on it's own.

 

[xotoxi]

ABORTION: I don't like it, but I am pro choice. However, I think that more should go into preventing unwanted pregnancies rather than terminating them. Why are people so friggin' horny???

RACIAL BIGOTRY: It exists. It is often used as an excuse. And it goes both ways.

GAYS: They can do what they want behind closed doors. Mild PDA are acceptable to me, just as mild hetero PDAs are acceptable. (I don't like seeing a man and a woman going at it in public.) Regarding marriage...marriage should not be recognized by the government and any two consenting adults can be given a Civil Union. Marriage is a relgious institution for which the government should have absolutely no authority to authorize or recognize.

RELIGION: For the weak-minded.

 

[uscitizen]

Abortion: I find it reprehensible, but the cat is out of the bag. We will never eliminate abortion, it is available around the world. I am a realist and know that neither abortion or gun ownership will be outlawed nation wide. Best option is to cut down the need for abortion.....Birth control, sex education, free neonatal care, assistance to single mothers

Racial bigotry: It is here, but not as bad as it once was. We have made enormous progress. We don't owe people anything other than a fair shake.....some groups still do not get a fair shake.
I believe most problems blacks face are due to black culture and not white descrimination. 70% of black children born to unwed mothers, limited emphasis on education, black on black crime, gangs, drugs...all are self inflicted and need to be handled within the black community

Gays: I still wince when I see gays kissing, but am willing to accept it. I think gays have a right to marry, raise children and do everything heterosexuals do. I look at what they do as having no impact on my life so leave them alone

Christianity: I am an atheist....I have been brought up Christian but just don't buy it as the truth. Most Christians are good people and do good for the community. I have problems with fundamentalists who are intolerant of others while demanding their own doctrine be accepted

Good post. This "liberal" agrees with you.

 

[xsited1]

Be honest about these three conscience-raising values, NOT politically motivated based on ideology or agenda.

Abortion: It's a life, not a choice. In 100 years, people will look back on the pro-choice crowd as people look at at the pro-slavery folks of the 19th century today. History will not be kind to the pro-choicers. And the US government will be chastised for making in-country adoptions so expensive and difficult that people had to adopt out of the country.

Racial bigotry: Governments and some political parties use this to control the way some vote. These people must be stopped. Affirmative Action, for example, is nothing more than State-sanctioned racism. Anyone supporting this is a racist by definition.

Gays: Homosexuals should be treated just like everyone else. However, many have become homosexuals because of physical and/or sexual abuse as children and some perhaps because of a chemical imbalance in the brain. The answer is not to encourage the behavior for these people, but to help them become who they would have become had they not been dealt the hand they were given. Just as there is treatment for bipolar disorder, for example, there are treatments available for homosexuals today and more sophisticated treatments will be available in the future.

Christianity: Humans are wired-up to believe in God. Christianity seems to have it right, although the fundamentalists have clearly corrupted the meaning. If people would follow the two greatest commandments, the world would be a better place:

Mark chapter 12 verses 28-31

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," Jesus answered, "is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."


One last thing: I find it disgusting that the meaning of 'Liberal' has been corrupted by contemporary American liberals. I can't call myself a 'Liberal' without explaining that I'm not like the left-wing moonbats. The current meaning of 'Liberal' in America today is just about the opposite of the dictionary definition. That's a shame.

 

[dilloduck]

Well thought out and interesting but are opinions regarding abortion, racial bigotry, Christianity and homosexuality truly

conscience-raising values

?
What is it that our culture really values ? Fame ? Power ? Money ? Honesty ? Integrity? Truth? Security ?
How would you prioritize them ?

 

[rdean]

Abortion - If the "anti" women's rights people put their money where their mouth is and actually came up with ways women who become pregnant for whatever reason could take care of those children, then I suspect that the numbers of abortion would drop dramatically.
Saying that women use abortion as "birth control" is a flat out lie. Sure, there may be a very few who are irresponsible, but if I hear one more, "I know a woman who has had 15 abortions because it's easier than birth control", I'm going to puke.
How many children are waiting to be adopted? That kind of tells the story.
The right flat out lies when they suggest the left has "abortion parties" and "have abortions for fun". No one likes abortion. But we already know for sure that women will have back alley dirty unbent hanger abortions if no other options. It was up until just a few days ago that anyone working for the RNC could get an abortion and the party would pay for it. Wonder how many used that "benefit"?

Racial bigotry? Living in Chicago, I know lots of black people. I work with black people. As far as I know, none belong to gangs. When I was in the military, I worked with lots of black people, none belonged to gangs. If you go to "white" ghettos, you will find lots of gang members, none of them black. The real problem here is poverty. An inner city black with that ignorant slang is looked askance just as much as that dumb hillbilly twang or that white south side Chicago drawl. Poverty and language skills. The two largest causes of bigotry. It call all be traced back to those.

Gays - Doesn't bother me seeing anyone kiss, unless it's like those young couples sitting in the park, or at the beach, or in a restaurant, swapping spit and rotating their heads while their mouths are pressed together wide open. Of course, I have never seen gays do that.
There are probably way more "swingers" than gays considering there are "swingers clubs" in every state in the union. And a 50% divorce rate.
When you look at gay contributions to society in science, literature, art, dance, music, architecture and so many other fields and look at the small and meager contributions of evangelicals, I would much rather have more gays. Who wouldn't?

Religion - it's just so stupid. Mysticism, ghosts, supernatural, occult, angels, devils, demons, sprites, deities, it's just stupid. It's like believing in Marvel Comics. And there is exactly the same amount of evidence. Exactly. Just wanting something to be real, doesn't make it real.

Good point about controlling abortiion on demand. I think Planned Parenthood tries to give advice, but unfortunately because of the nature of that organization, the advice is usually too late. There needs to be a group that becomes a household name whose sole goal is to provide counseling BEFORE a woman becomes pregnant, and those voices need to be forceful.

During the last election, John McCain said he was for insurance paying for "Viagra" because "erectile dysfunction" is a medical condition, but birth control should be paid for by the woman because it's a "lifestyle choice". As long as the majority of Americans have that kind of mindset, and I believe it is the majority, nothing will change.

 

[rdean]

Well thought out and interesting but are opinions regarding abortion, racial bigotry, Christianity and homosexuality truly

conscience-raising values

?
What is it that our culture really values ? Fame ? Power ? Money ? Honesty ? Integrity? Truth? Security ?
How would you prioritize them ?

Funny that you named almost nothing I believe has much value.

To me, it's (no particular order):

Good health
Family
Patriotism
Helping others
community
education

If you do your best for those I named, then honesty, integrity and truth happens without naming them separate.

You can move jobs overseas, leaving American destitute and still be "honest and truthful". Some people measure their worth by how much money they have so they feel they have pocketfuls of "integrity". You see, they are kind of "sliding values".

Good health, family, community, those are NOT sliding values.

OK, even though Republicans kick their gay children out of their families proving many practice the "opposite of family values", I won't rant against them this time.

 

[xotoxi]

During the last election, John McCain said he was for insurance paying for "Viagra" because "erectile dysfunction" is a medical condition, but birth control should be paid for by the woman because it's a "lifestyle choice". As long as the majority of Americans have that kind of mindset, and I believe it is the majority, nothing will change.

Are you serious?

DAMN! I never heard that!

What bullshit! True, erectile dysfunction is a medical condition, but the decision for a man to fuck is a lifestyle choice.

What an idiot McCain is!

 

[uscitizen]

The one best cultural value of all. Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.

This would naturally cover most of our societies problems if we just lived our lives this way.

 

[rdean]

During the last election, John McCain said he was for insurance paying for "Viagra" because "erectile dysfunction" is a medical condition, but birth control should be paid for by the woman because it's a "lifestyle choice". As long as the majority of Americans have that kind of mindset, and I believe it is the majority, nothing will change.

Are you serious?

DAMN! I never heard that!

What bullshit! True, erectile dysfunction is a medical condition, but the decision for a man to fuck is a lifestyle choice.

What an idiot McCain is!

I thought it made a lot of news. I'm sure if you were ever interested, you could do a search on, "mccain viagra medical condition" and have you choice of spin from both liberal and conservative pun-dents, since both had plenty to say.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBm3FMDM8aE&feature=fvw]YouTube - O'Reilly Defends McCain On Birth Control[/ame]

 

[rdean]

The one best cultural value of all. Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.

This would naturally cover most of our societies problems if we just lived our lives this way.

Unless you're a masochist.

 

[alan1]

The one best cultural value of all. Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.

This would naturally cover most of our societies problems if we just lived our lives this way.

Unless you're a masochist.

Or believe in retroactive abortion.

 

[dilloduck]

Well thought out and interesting but are opinions regarding abortion, racial bigotry, Christianity and homosexuality truly

conscience-raising values

?
What is it that our culture really values ? Fame ? Power ? Money ? Honesty ? Integrity? Truth? Security ?
How would you prioritize them ?

Funny that you named almost nothing I believe has much value.

To me, it's (no particular order):

Good health
Family
Patriotism
Helping others
community
education

If you do your best for those I named, then honesty, integrity and truth happens without naming them separate.

You can move jobs overseas, leaving American destitute and still be "honest and truthful". Some people measure their worth by how much money they have so they feel they have pocketfuls of "integrity". You see, they are kind of "sliding values".

Good health, family, community, those are NOT sliding values.

OK, even though Republicans kick their gay children out of their families proving many practice the "opposite of family values", I won't rant against them this time.

please--good health, community, and family are all subject to defintions.

Good health
Family
Patriotism
Helping others
community
education

not of the above assures honesty, intergrity, etc