Libertarians Are The True Political Moderates

[Antares]

Yea, that Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were cock suckers huh? I bet we'd be even more free if they would have just handed over the country to the Robber Barons.

You guys have been brainwashed to think your government is the problem but the problem is it isn't your government anymore. Well it is because you are the stupid cock suckers who voted for Bush.

I can't speak for Tom or George, but I pretty sure you are a rump ranger....hence the anger issues.

I can also tell you this.....I don't need your Gov to give me things, I don't need food stamps, I don't need Obama to lecture me about well anything.

You think the world owes you "stuff", it doesn't.

Nobody owes you shit and you don't have the balls to take it or earn it.....you just stand there with your hand out and your mouth open hoping for a little Bammy jizz.

All I care about, me, Mr. Common Man Conservative is that you pecker heads just worry about you...and if YOU want more you do like I do, you go earn it.

Work longer, work harder, work more.

Save.

Just like I do.

You didn't benefit from a good public school? Why, are your parents rich enough to send you to a good private school?

I was going to expound but then I read where you said work longer, harder and more???

Really you fool? Seems to me the liberals/unions/democrats/progressives fought and won you a 40 hour work week. Before that it was 80. No overtime. You are simply a fool.

But if you want to work harder and longer for less go for it.

Reagan, like George W. Bush after him, failed to understand that when people come together into community, and then into nationhood, that they organize themselves to protect themselves from predators, both human and corporate, both domestic and foreign. This form of organization is called government.

But the Reagan/Bush ideologues don't "believe" in government, in anything other than a military and police capacity. Government should punish, they agree, but it should never nurture, protect, or defend individuals. Nurturing and protecting, they suggest, is the more appropriate role of religious institutions, private charities, families, and - perhaps most important - corporations.

Let the corporations handle your old-age pension. Let the corporations decide how much protection we and our environment need from their toxics. Let the corporations decide what we're paid. Let the corporations decide what doctor we can see, when, and for what purpose.

This is the exact opposite of the vision for which the Founders of this nation fought and died. When Thomas Jefferson changed John Locke's "Life, liberty, and private property" to "Live, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," it was the first time in the history of the world that a newly founded nation had written the word "happiness" into its founding document. The phrase "promote the general welfare" - another revolutionary concept - first appeared in the preamble to our Constitution in 1787.

Talk show cons and TV talking head cons and political cons - both Republican and DLC Democratic - repeat the mantra of "smaller government," and Americans nod their heads in agreement, not realizing the hidden agenda at work.

You didn't benefit from a good public school? Why, are your parents rich enough to send you to a good private school?

I was going to expound but then I read where you said work longer, harder and more???

Really you fool? Seems to me the liberals/unions/democrats/progressives fought and won you a 40 hour work week. Before that it was 80. No overtime. You are simply a fool.

But if you want to work harder and longer for less go for it.

You just keep revealing what a lazy ass you are.

Just one more "something for nothing lefty".

You aren't near as sharp as you think you are boy.

The Gov you describe is NT the Gov we have, you want your Gov to regulate every aspect of your life because you can't think for yourself anymore, it's been bred out of you.

Fuck Liberals and Progressives boy

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Libertarians Are The True Political Moderates

Libertarianism is in essence naïve and reactionary; it is utopian dogma predicated on an idealized perception of an American past that never actually existed to begin with.

Current necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory policy as authorized by the Commerce Clause acts as a warranted and appropriate countermeasure to the capricious avarice practiced by most business owners and employers. See, e.g., West Coast Hotel*Co.*v.*Parrish (1937), United States v.*Darby*Lumber Co. (1941), Wickard v.*Filburn (1942).

It's understood, of course, that libertarians are ignorant of, or have contempt for, Commerce Clause jurisprudence, and otherwise reject it altogether, which they have every right to do.

But it nonetheless remains a fact of Constitutional law that governments may enact regulatory measures to safeguard the health and safety of both working Americans and consumers, to ensure Americans are paid a fair wage, work in safe conditions, and patrons receive goods and services that are likewise safe and free of harmful defects.

Consequently, not only are libertarians not 'true moderates,' but they occupy the fringe of American politics, and rightfully so, as they are the least representative of the American people.

 

[Antares]

Poor bobo, NOBODY advocates the dissolution of the GOvernment.
Just it being limited.

But to suit your purposes people like you need to take your arguments out to the absurd and illogical places you've been describing here all along.

 

[sealybobo]

I can't speak for Tom or George, but I pretty sure you are a rump ranger....hence the anger issues.

I can also tell you this.....I don't need your Gov to give me things, I don't need food stamps, I don't need Obama to lecture me about well anything.

You think the world owes you "stuff", it doesn't.

Nobody owes you shit and you don't have the balls to take it or earn it.....you just stand there with your hand out and your mouth open hoping for a little Bammy jizz.

All I care about, me, Mr. Common Man Conservative is that you pecker heads just worry about you...and if YOU want more you do like I do, you go earn it.

Work longer, work harder, work more.

Save.

Just like I do.

You didn't benefit from a good public school? Why, are your parents rich enough to send you to a good private school?

I was going to expound but then I read where you said work longer, harder and more???

Really you fool? Seems to me the liberals/unions/democrats/progressives fought and won you a 40 hour work week. Before that it was 80. No overtime. You are simply a fool.

But if you want to work harder and longer for less go for it.

Reagan, like George W. Bush after him, failed to understand that when people come together into community, and then into nationhood, that they organize themselves to protect themselves from predators, both human and corporate, both domestic and foreign. This form of organization is called government.

But the Reagan/Bush ideologues don't "believe" in government, in anything other than a military and police capacity. Government should punish, they agree, but it should never nurture, protect, or defend individuals. Nurturing and protecting, they suggest, is the more appropriate role of religious institutions, private charities, families, and - perhaps most important - corporations.

Let the corporations handle your old-age pension. Let the corporations decide how much protection we and our environment need from their toxics. Let the corporations decide what we're paid. Let the corporations decide what doctor we can see, when, and for what purpose.

This is the exact opposite of the vision for which the Founders of this nation fought and died. When Thomas Jefferson changed John Locke's "Life, liberty, and private property" to "Live, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," it was the first time in the history of the world that a newly founded nation had written the word "happiness" into its founding document. The phrase "promote the general welfare" - another revolutionary concept - first appeared in the preamble to our Constitution in 1787.

Talk show cons and TV talking head cons and political cons - both Republican and DLC Democratic - repeat the mantra of "smaller government," and Americans nod their heads in agreement, not realizing the hidden agenda at work.

You didn't benefit from a good public school? Why, are your parents rich enough to send you to a good private school?

I was going to expound but then I read where you said work longer, harder and more???

Really you fool? Seems to me the liberals/unions/democrats/progressives fought and won you a 40 hour work week. Before that it was 80. No overtime. You are simply a fool.

But if you want to work harder and longer for less go for it.

You just keep revealing what a lazy ass you are.

Just one more "something for nothing lefty".

You aren't near as sharp as you think you are boy.

The Gov you describe is NT the Gov we have, you want your Gov to regulate every aspect of your life because you can't think for yourself anymore, it's been bred out of you.

Fuck Liberals and Progressives boy

And you have exposed how brainwashed and dumb you are. I'm lazy because I want to be paid overtime if my company makes me work over 40 hours? Bullshit. Liberals/progressives/Americans decided a long time ago that instead of working 16 hours a day we would work 8 hours, have fun 8 and sleep 8. Quality of life is important in America.

If you want to take that away from us please at least say that in the next Presidential Debate so Americans know what they are voting for.

And tell them they are lazy fucks even though productivity is through the roof and corporate profits are up. Maybe if "we let the market decide" the ceo's will start giving us profit sharing.

Anyways, I am very confident your ways won't catch on. Oh, and no one said I want government to regulate every aspect of my life. I want them to be the referee between us (labor) and corporations. Take that away and there is nothing to stop the corporations, which is the ultimate goal. You just don't know it.

 

[sealybobo]

Poor bobo, NOBODY advocates the dissolution of the GOvernment.
Just it being limited.

But to suit your purposes people like you need to take your arguments out to the absurd and illogical places you've been describing here all along.

Yea, you just want to shrink it to the size you can drown it in the bathtub.

Did you read the article? It's not a conspiracy theory fool.

But you are right. They don't want to completely get rid of government. They want it small and powerless though and they want it in their back pockets, which they just about have now.

You fools can't even admit that corporations and the rich own our government and that is the problem. So fuck off all of you. Luckily your way is a joke and Ron Paul is a fool who gets less than 1% of the vote every 4 years.

 

[sealybobo]

And basically the argument these right wing libertarian fools are making is the same argument that Romney made. They are calling us who believe in government TAKERS.

Trust me, if you are rich you are taking more and if you are poor you are a taker too.

Fact. Red states take in more federal dollars than they pay and blue states pay more than we get back from the feds. So who are the real takers?

I have talked to a right wing fool before who hated Planned Parenthood and Government but then he told me when his dad died when he was a kid the government paid for him to go to a private school blablabla. Basically he sucked on the government's tit for 15 years and NOW he wants to take away the very programs him and his mom took advantage of.

Typical right wingers. They made it here in America because safety nets were in place and the system was set up for them to succeed. Today the hypocrites want to remove the safety nets now that they have made it. They climbed the ladder of success and now want to pull the ladder up so the next generation doesn't have it as good as they did.

 

[Antares]

You didn't benefit from a good public school? Why, are your parents rich enough to send you to a good private school?

I was going to expound but then I read where you said work longer, harder and more???

Really you fool? Seems to me the liberals/unions/democrats/progressives fought and won you a 40 hour work week. Before that it was 80. No overtime. You are simply a fool.

But if you want to work harder and longer for less go for it.

Reagan, like George W. Bush after him, failed to understand that when people come together into community, and then into nationhood, that they organize themselves to protect themselves from predators, both human and corporate, both domestic and foreign. This form of organization is called government.

But the Reagan/Bush ideologues don't "believe" in government, in anything other than a military and police capacity. Government should punish, they agree, but it should never nurture, protect, or defend individuals. Nurturing and protecting, they suggest, is the more appropriate role of religious institutions, private charities, families, and - perhaps most important - corporations.

Let the corporations handle your old-age pension. Let the corporations decide how much protection we and our environment need from their toxics. Let the corporations decide what we're paid. Let the corporations decide what doctor we can see, when, and for what purpose.

This is the exact opposite of the vision for which the Founders of this nation fought and died. When Thomas Jefferson changed John Locke's "Life, liberty, and private property" to "Live, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," it was the first time in the history of the world that a newly founded nation had written the word "happiness" into its founding document. The phrase "promote the general welfare" - another revolutionary concept - first appeared in the preamble to our Constitution in 1787.

Talk show cons and TV talking head cons and political cons - both Republican and DLC Democratic - repeat the mantra of "smaller government," and Americans nod their heads in agreement, not realizing the hidden agenda at work.

You didn't benefit from a good public school? Why, are your parents rich enough to send you to a good private school?

I was going to expound but then I read where you said work longer, harder and more???

Really you fool? Seems to me the liberals/unions/democrats/progressives fought and won you a 40 hour work week. Before that it was 80. No overtime. You are simply a fool.

But if you want to work harder and longer for less go for it.

You just keep revealing what a lazy ass you are.

Just one more "something for nothing lefty".

You aren't near as sharp as you think you are boy.

The Gov you describe is NT the Gov we have, you want your Gov to regulate every aspect of your life because you can't think for yourself anymore, it's been bred out of you.

Fuck Liberals and Progressives boy

And you have exposed how brainwashed and dumb you are. I'm lazy because I want to be paid overtime if my company makes me work over 40 hours? Bullshit. Liberals/progressives/Americans decided a long time ago that instead of working 16 hours a day we would work 8 hours, have fun 8 and sleep 8. Quality of life is important in America.

If you want to take that away from us please at least say that in the next Presidential Debate so Americans know what they are voting for.

And tell them they are lazy fucks even though productivity is through the roof and corporate profits are up. Maybe if "we let the market decide" the ceo's will start giving us profit sharing.

Anyways, I am very confident your ways won't catch on. Oh, and no one said I want government to regulate every aspect of my life. I want them to be the referee between us (labor) and corporations. Take that away and there is nothing to stop the corporations, which is the ultimate goal. You just don't know it.

And you have exposed how brainwashed and dumb you are. I'm lazy because I want to be paid overtime if my company makes me work over 40 hours? Bullshit. Liberals/progressives/Americans decided a long time ago that instead of working 16 hours a day we would work 8 hours, have fun 8 and sleep 8. Quality of life is important in America.

I invite you to go back through the conversation and quote me directly where I have advocated any of that.

You see deflection is the haven of the weak minded kid...and you are very weak minded.

nyways, I am very confident your ways won't catch on. Oh, and no one said I want government to regulate every aspect of my life. I want them to be the referee between us (labor) and corporations. Take that away and there is nothing to stop the corporations, which is the ultimate goal. You just don't know it

(smile) You haven't a clue what a Progressive is about kid.

Progressives are ALL about regulating everything, see obama et al.

You illustrate perfectly the mindset of someone I could never be like.

You think everyone is out to screw you, I have learned that people like you, people that don't trust anyone cannot be trusted.

I am betting you are as dishonest as they come.

 

[sealybobo]

You didn't benefit from a good public school? Why, are your parents rich enough to send you to a good private school?

I was going to expound but then I read where you said work longer, harder and more???

Really you fool? Seems to me the liberals/unions/democrats/progressives fought and won you a 40 hour work week. Before that it was 80. No overtime. You are simply a fool.

But if you want to work harder and longer for less go for it.

You just keep revealing what a lazy ass you are.

Just one more "something for nothing lefty".

You aren't near as sharp as you think you are boy.

The Gov you describe is NT the Gov we have, you want your Gov to regulate every aspect of your life because you can't think for yourself anymore, it's been bred out of you.

Fuck Liberals and Progressives boy

And you have exposed how brainwashed and dumb you are. I'm lazy because I want to be paid overtime if my company makes me work over 40 hours? Bullshit. Liberals/progressives/Americans decided a long time ago that instead of working 16 hours a day we would work 8 hours, have fun 8 and sleep 8. Quality of life is important in America.

If you want to take that away from us please at least say that in the next Presidential Debate so Americans know what they are voting for.

And tell them they are lazy fucks even though productivity is through the roof and corporate profits are up. Maybe if "we let the market decide" the ceo's will start giving us profit sharing.

Anyways, I am very confident your ways won't catch on. Oh, and no one said I want government to regulate every aspect of my life. I want them to be the referee between us (labor) and corporations. Take that away and there is nothing to stop the corporations, which is the ultimate goal. You just don't know it.

And you have exposed how brainwashed and dumb you are. I'm lazy because I want to be paid overtime if my company makes me work over 40 hours? Bullshit. Liberals/progressives/Americans decided a long time ago that instead of working 16 hours a day we would work 8 hours, have fun 8 and sleep 8. Quality of life is important in America.

I invite you to go back through the conversation and quote me directly where I have advocated any of that.

You see deflection is the haven of the weak minded kid...and you are very weak minded.

nyways, I am very confident your ways won't catch on. Oh, and no one said I want government to regulate every aspect of my life. I want them to be the referee between us (labor) and corporations. Take that away and there is nothing to stop the corporations, which is the ultimate goal. You just don't know it

(smile) You haven't a clue what a Progressive is about kid.

Progressives are ALL about regulating everything, see obama et al.

You illustrate perfectly the mindset of someone I could never be like.

You think everyone is out to screw you, I have learned that people like you, people that don't trust anyone cannot be trusted.

I am betting you are as dishonest as they come.

And you believe the cold unfeeling corporations will do better by you than your own government. I could never be like you either.

And you have us all wrong. BUT, what I think is you have never experienced the great progressive society that my dad benefited from. SS, medicare, a government that didn't work for the corporations instead worked for us.

If you really study history go watch a PBS documentary on FDR and how the rich back then tried to take over the country but he stopped them. The rich called him a traitor to his class. You my friend are a traitor to your class. FDR fought against letting the rich own you but since then the rich have slowly taken over. They made a big move under Reagan and an even bigger move under Bush. Now you see the middle class along with unions is disappearing. But the rich are richer than ever. But a fool like you thinks that it was unions and liberals fault. There is no discussing with people like you. You are simply too far gone. They've been brainwashing you for 40 years and it has sunken in I see.

Go ahead and vote Libertarian please. That's one less vote Christie or Jeb will get.

 

[sealybobo]

Poor bobo, NOBODY advocates the dissolution of the GOvernment.
Just it being limited.

But to suit your purposes people like you need to take your arguments out to the absurd and illogical places you've been describing here all along.

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

 

[sealybobo]

A few threads on the deficiencies in libertarianism. I believe the philosphy persists because Libertarianism is a tightly contrived philosophical system that sounds appealing in theory because it seems to have answers to everything... and it convinces believers they are moral. Here's a thread on how libertarians would deal with public health. It's clear they may not have one. - See more at: Would A Libertarian Society Eventually Be Forced To Evolve Into A Civilized One? | Thom Hartmann - News & info from the #1 progressive radio show

 

[Contumacious]

A few threads on the deficiencies in libertarianism. I believe the philosphy persists because Libertarianism is a tightly contrived philosophical system that sounds appealing in theory because it seems to have answers to everything... l]

The Libertarians promise freedom. That's all folks.

The Welfare/Warfare Party, aka, the Demopublicans , promise food stamps, hellcare, to quench thirst, in a nutshell, a Parasite's paradise.

Now you see why sillybobo is rationalizing.

.

 

[dblack]

A few threads on the deficiencies in libertarianism. I believe the philosphy persists because Libertarianism is a tightly contrived philosophical system that sounds appealing in theory because it seems to have answers to everything... l]

The Libertarians promise freedom. That's all folks.

The Welfare/Warfare Party, aka, the Demopublicans , promise food stamps, hellcare, to quench thirst, in a nutshell, a Parasite's paradise.

Now you see why sillybobo is rationalizing.

.

Claiming freedom for yourself implies granting it, in equal measure, to all others. It means forfeiting the practice of bullying others for your convenience. That's what they are loathe to do.

 

[Contumacious]

A few threads on the deficiencies in libertarianism. I believe the philosphy persists because Libertarianism is a tightly contrived philosophical system that sounds appealing in theory because it seems to have answers to everything... l]

The Libertarians promise freedom. That's all folks.

The Welfare/Warfare Party, aka, the Demopublicans , promise food stamps, hellcare, to quench thirst, in a nutshell, a Parasite's paradise.

Now you see why sillybobo is rationalizing.

.

Claiming freedom for yourself implies granting it, in equal measure, to all others. It means forfeiting the practice of bullying others for your convenience. That's what they are loathe to do.

HUH?

Try again, this time in English.

.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The Libertarians promise freedom. That's all folks.

The Welfare/Warfare Party, aka, the Demopublicans , promise food stamps, hellcare, to quench thirst, in a nutshell, a Parasite's paradise.

Now you see why sillybobo is rationalizing.

.

Claiming freedom for yourself implies granting it, in equal measure, to all others. It means forfeiting the practice of bullying others for your convenience. That's what they are loathe to do.

HUH?

Try again, this time in English.

That was English actually. He could have said it more plainly however.

 

[sealybobo]

Poor bobo, NOBODY advocates the dissolution of the GOvernment.
Just it being limited.

But to suit your purposes people like you need to take your arguments out to the absurd and illogical places you've been describing here all along.

Market based "solutions" don't work well when the masses have no money.
So what about truly contagious diseases... such as a flu epidemic? What are libertarian public health principles? Would libertarians insist that they be dealt with by charities? Would they refuse to forcibly quarantine the contagious? Or would they begin to tax citizens to pay for public health?
If clear water is a "commodity" that must be paid for... at what point does the society realize that it's dragging down the economy if the poor are getting sick from contaminated water... and begin to tax themselves for it?
If electric and telephone service are also "commodities" that must be paid for... but private companies refuse to serve vast regions of the country because there's just no profit in these areas... how many will need to die of exposure or lack of 911 service before the society taxes itself to provide services to those areas?
And when drug companies don't think there's enough of a profit in antibiotics and other needed drugs... but instead focus on drugs only the rich can afford... how long will it be for that society to tax itself to fund research?
I could go on but my gut tells me that the True Believer's paradise would soon be faced with a plethora of moral dilemmas. They'd have to turn their backs on the poverty, lack of public health, lack of development mentioned above... not to mention vast disparities in education, infrastructure, etc.... or start the march to civilization. Perhaps they can look to our nation's history to see how this insidious process of development took root and learn how to protect their precious belief system against it.
- See more at: Would A Libertarian Society Eventually Be Forced To Evolve Into A Civilized One? | Thom Hartmann - News & info from the #1 progressive radio show

 

[dblack]

Claiming freedom for yourself implies granting it, in equal measure, to all others. It means forfeiting the practice of bullying others for your convenience. That's what they are loathe to do.

HUH?

Try again, this time in English.

That was English actually. He could have said it more plainly however.

Fair enough. I'll try again.

The concept of freedom, as promoted by libertarians, requires that we respect the rights of others. It means we give up the idea that we can push other people around for our benefit. Statists don't want to give up that power, which is why they despise libertarians.

 

[dblack]

HUH?

Try again, this time in English.

That was English actually. He could have said it more plainly however.

I can translate.

He said liberty is bunk because in order to have liberty for all you have to willing to force authoritarian ass holes, like him, to agree, which goes against the tenant of no force.

Or said another way, the ass hole is trying to argue that liberty means the liberty to shove his fist up your ass and take your life for his pleasure. IOW he's an authoritarian ass hole democrat that bastardizes the meanings of words like liberty to his own pleasure.

???

 

[sealybobo]

A few threads on the deficiencies in libertarianism. I believe the philosphy persists because Libertarianism is a tightly contrived philosophical system that sounds appealing in theory because it seems to have answers to everything... l]

The Libertarians promise freedom. That's all folks.

The Welfare/Warfare Party, aka, the Demopublicans , promise food stamps, hellcare, to quench thirst, in a nutshell, a Parasite's paradise.

Now you see why sillybobo is rationalizing.

.

Safety nets. The Democratic/Liberal/Progressive America provided unemployment benefits, social security, medicare for the old, food stamps if you need them, unions, sick days, vacation days, maternaty leave, high wages, fair taxation, good public schools.

You and the Republicans don't like public schools. We do.

Every other country like Switzerland and Denmark laugh at you stupid right wing Americans. They gladly pay taxes and they get a lot of social services for them. And they know you don't realize that the rich here in America aren't paying their fair share and for what we pay, we're the ones getting hosed. But you cry for lower taxes and all I've seen are rich people and corporations getting tax breaks and our taxes going up, but our wages are not. And you right wing fuck tards want to blame Obama? Fuck you

We know for example there would be no national parks if it weren't for liberals and taxes. You would have the Koch brothers own Yellowstone.

 

[sealybobo]

HUH?

Try again, this time in English.

That was English actually. He could have said it more plainly however.

Fair enough. I'll try again.

The concept of freedom, as promoted by libertarians, requires that we respect the rights of others. It means we give up the idea that we can push other people around for our benefit. Statists don't want to give up that power, which is why they despise libertarians.

If you've explained it two times now and we still don't get it, just shut the fuck up. We despise you because you are wrong and pawns just like middle class tea baggers are.

 

[dblack]

That was English actually. He could have said it more plainly however.

Fair enough. I'll try again.

The concept of freedom, as promoted by libertarians, requires that we respect the rights of others. It means we give up the idea that we can push other people around for our benefit. Statists don't want to give up that power, which is why they despise libertarians.

If you've explained it two times now and we still don't get it, just shut the fuck up. We despise you because you are wrong and pawns just like middle class tea baggers are.

Heh.. alright.