Libertarian but not Libertarian Party?

Boss

Take a Memo:
Apr 21, 2012
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Birmingham, AL
I've been seriously contemplating what I actually AM lately. In light of this crazy-ass election, the likes of which we've clearly never had; and hopefully, will never have again in my lifetime. You see, I had always thought that I was a Conservative. Apparently, I am not a Conservative, or at least not one representing the new 'Trump Conservative' position. So if that's now "Conservative" then that's not who I am.

I have a strong belief in our Constitution. I think our framers were geniuses. They devised such a flawlessly perfect system for building a strong prosperous nation, filled with diversity and freedom of spirit and individual. Every word of that document was pondered and considered with incredible thought and strong philosophy. It's not out-dated, it's timeless.

This is the foundation of where my 'Conservative' philosophy centers. I think of Conservative as more of a philosophy than some specific ideology. It's never "Liberal vs. Conservative" for me... it's Conservative vs. Extreme or Radical. My personal ideological leanings are more Libertarian than anything else. But am I a Libertarian Conservative? A Constitutional Conservative? Or does "Conservative" not even apply anymore?

I know that I am not ready to hitch up with the Libertarian Party at this time. I think they are pretty much a running national joke at this point. It seems that with "Extreme" Libertarianism you get a lot of nutbags and fruitcakes. No, I don't want to make Heroin legal nationwide... and yes, I do still believe in religious freedom. So I guess you could say I am a "Moderate" Libertarian?

In most social cases, I think the states and people of the state should have the option to decide. Unless it is specifically a fundamental and inalienable right question, it should be up to the state and people to decide. I don't want the Federal government establishing all these one-size-fits-all laws governing our society. No one is happy like that. We shouldn't put up with our pursuit of happiness being thwarted that way. We should all have the right to establish our own societal limitations and boundaries based on our own cultures and traditions.
 
I've been seriously contemplating what I actually AM lately. In light of this crazy-ass election, the likes of which we've clearly never had; and hopefully, will never have again in my lifetime. You see, I had always thought that I was a Conservative. Apparently, I am not a Conservative, or at least not one representing the new 'Trump Conservative' position. So if that's now "Conservative" then that's not who I am.

I have a strong belief in our Constitution. I think our framers were geniuses. They devised such a flawlessly perfect system for building a strong prosperous nation, filled with diversity and freedom of spirit and individual. Every word of that document was pondered and considered with incredible thought and strong philosophy. It's not out-dated, it's timeless.

This is the foundation of where my 'Conservative' philosophy centers. I think of Conservative as more of a philosophy than some specific ideology. It's never "Liberal vs. Conservative" for me... it's Conservative vs. Extreme or Radical. My personal ideological leanings are more Libertarian than anything else. But am I a Libertarian Conservative? A Constitutional Conservative? Or does "Conservative" not even apply anymore?

I know that I am not ready to hitch up with the Libertarian Party at this time. I think they are pretty much a running national joke at this point. It seems that with "Extreme" Libertarianism you get a lot of nutbags and fruitcakes. No, I don't want to make Heroin legal nationwide... and yes, I do still believe in religious freedom. So I guess you could say I am a "Moderate" Libertarian?

In most social cases, I think the states and people of the state should have the option to decide. Unless it is specifically a fundamental and inalienable right question, it should be up to the state and people to decide. I don't want the Federal government establishing all these one-size-fits-all laws governing our society. No one is happy like that. We shouldn't put up with our pursuit of happiness being thwarted that way. We should all have the right to establish our own societal limitations and boundaries based on our own cultures and traditions.

There are a LOT of libertarian Republicans. In fact, there has been a "Liberty Caucus" in Congress for 20 years. I lot of very talented and principled folks hang out there. And on the Dem side, we agree with Bernie on about 50% of the issues. At least the ones that don't involve math or economics. :biggrin: Like on asset forfeiture, less foreign intervention, a strong defense and support of all TEN of the Bill of Rights. Also agree with the "bernie left" on ending govt/corporate welfare and collusion.

It's a really simple leap actually. Nothing that requires you to endorse "legalizing heroin". On drugs, the LParty supported marijuana reform primarily because packing our prisons with weed offenders, which we have carried to astronomical proportions, just is NOT a good use of the criminal justice and prison system.

You don't HAVE to ENDORSE liberties that you grant to others. In fact, you can despise their choices. But TOLERANCE of other choices is a fundamental prereq to living in a truly free country. And without tolerating the decisions of others -- you can't keep the state from usurping powers that it should not have.

What party does NOT have a fringe group of whackos and undesirables? They are attracted to platforms that are CLOSEST to their thinking. So MOST of the Libertarian fringe are anarchists. Who are confused about Libertarianism. And don't understand that we LOVE the Constitution as fundamentally interpreted, the justice system and vibrant political system. We strive for ballot access and to be on ballots to offer choice, not to gain power. And don't mind losing when we stick to principles.
 
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
 
I've been seriously contemplating what I actually AM lately. In light of this crazy-ass election, the likes of which we've clearly never had; and hopefully, will never have again in my lifetime. You see, I had always thought that I was a Conservative. Apparently, I am not a Conservative, or at least not one representing the new 'Trump Conservative' position. So if that's now "Conservative" then that's not who I am.

I have a strong belief in our Constitution. I think our framers were geniuses. They devised such a flawlessly perfect system for building a strong prosperous nation, filled with diversity and freedom of spirit and individual. Every word of that document was pondered and considered with incredible thought and strong philosophy. It's not out-dated, it's timeless.

This is the foundation of where my 'Conservative' philosophy centers. I think of Conservative as more of a philosophy than some specific ideology. It's never "Liberal vs. Conservative" for me... it's Conservative vs. Extreme or Radical. My personal ideological leanings are more Libertarian than anything else. But am I a Libertarian Conservative? A Constitutional Conservative? Or does "Conservative" not even apply anymore?

I know that I am not ready to hitch up with the Libertarian Party at this time. I think they are pretty much a running national joke at this point. It seems that with "Extreme" Libertarianism you get a lot of nutbags and fruitcakes. No, I don't want to make Heroin legal nationwide... and yes, I do still believe in religious freedom. So I guess you could say I am a "Moderate" Libertarian?

In most social cases, I think the states and people of the state should have the option to decide. Unless it is specifically a fundamental and inalienable right question, it should be up to the state and people to decide. I don't want the Federal government establishing all these one-size-fits-all laws governing our society. No one is happy like that. We shouldn't put up with our pursuit of happiness being thwarted that way. We should all have the right to establish our own societal limitations and boundaries based on our own cultures and traditions.
You have no idea what just happened....perhaps you need to do a bit more thinking before you go find yourself.....
 
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....
 
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....

Demonstrating why I have FAR more in common with conservatives than today's liberals, who seem to have gone full on statist lately. That won't do.
 
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....

Sure you do..:lmao: But you praise a prez-elect who's most likely to EXPAND surveillance on the general American population. Trump also knows no limits to the powers he's inherited to intimidate and FORCE his deals on people and companies. And he LOVES to deficit spend. He made a big deal about that. Which means your wallet and your children's wallets are gonna be a lot "less free"...
 
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....

Sure you do..:lmao: But you praise a prez-elect who's most likely to EXPAND surveillance on the general American population. Trump also knows no limits to the powers he's inherited to intimidate and FORCE his deals on people and companies. And he LOVES to deficit spend. He made a big deal about that. Which means your wallet and your children's wallets are gonna be a lot "less free"...
I haven't seen him act as POTUS yet like you and democrats apparently have.....
 
Up until your worthless belief system started to take over the republican party I was a republican. Thanks for helping me become a democrat.

Heh...
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....

Sure you do..:lmao: But you praise a prez-elect who's most likely to EXPAND surveillance on the general American population. Trump also knows no limits to the powers he's inherited to intimidate and FORCE his deals on people and companies. And he LOVES to deficit spend. He made a big deal about that. Which means your wallet and your children's wallets are gonna be a lot "less free"...
I haven't seen him act as POTUS yet like you and democrats apparently have.....

That's true. So far, we've only seem him act as a jackass. Maybe he has a hidden side waiting to blossom.
 
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Up until your worthless belief system started to take over the republican party I was a republican. Thanks for helping me become a democrat.

Heh...
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....

Sure you do..:lmao: But you praise a prez-elect who's most likely to EXPAND surveillance on the general American population. Trump also knows no limits to the powers he's inherited to intimidate and FORCE his deals on people and companies. And he LOVES to deficit spend. He made a big deal about that. Which means your wallet and your children's wallets are gonna be a lot "less free"...
I haven't seen him act as POTUS yet like you and democrats apparently have.....

That's true. So far, all we've only seem him act as a jackass. Maybe he has a hidden side waiting to blossom.
You sad Hillary lost?
 
Up until your worthless belief system started to take over the republican party I was a republican. Thanks for helping me become a democrat.

Heh...
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....

Sure you do..:lmao: But you praise a prez-elect who's most likely to EXPAND surveillance on the general American population. Trump also knows no limits to the powers he's inherited to intimidate and FORCE his deals on people and companies. And he LOVES to deficit spend. He made a big deal about that. Which means your wallet and your children's wallets are gonna be a lot "less free"...
I haven't seen him act as POTUS yet like you and democrats apparently have.....

That's true. So far, all we've only seem him act as a jackass. Maybe he has a hidden side waiting to blossom.
You sad Hillary lost?

No. Why do you ask?
 
Up until your worthless belief system started to take over the republican party I was a republican. Thanks for helping me become a democrat.

Heh...
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....

Sure you do..:lmao: But you praise a prez-elect who's most likely to EXPAND surveillance on the general American population. Trump also knows no limits to the powers he's inherited to intimidate and FORCE his deals on people and companies. And he LOVES to deficit spend. He made a big deal about that. Which means your wallet and your children's wallets are gonna be a lot "less free"...
I haven't seen him act as POTUS yet like you and democrats apparently have.....

That's true. So far, all we've only seem him act as a jackass. Maybe he has a hidden side waiting to blossom.
You sad Hillary lost?

No. Why do you ask?
Did you vote Trump?
 
Up until your worthless belief system started to take over the republican party I was a republican. Thanks for helping me become a democrat.

Heh...
Sure you do..:lmao: But you praise a prez-elect who's most likely to EXPAND surveillance on the general American population. Trump also knows no limits to the powers he's inherited to intimidate and FORCE his deals on people and companies. And he LOVES to deficit spend. He made a big deal about that. Which means your wallet and your children's wallets are gonna be a lot "less free"...
I haven't seen him act as POTUS yet like you and democrats apparently have.....

That's true. So far, all we've only seem him act as a jackass. Maybe he has a hidden side waiting to blossom.
You sad Hillary lost?

No. Why do you ask?
Did you vote Trump?
No. Why do you ask?
 
Up until your worthless belief system started to take over the republican party I was a republican. Thanks for helping me become a democrat.

Heh...
I haven't seen him act as POTUS yet like you and democrats apparently have.....

That's true. So far, all we've only seem him act as a jackass. Maybe he has a hidden side waiting to blossom.
You sad Hillary lost?

No. Why do you ask?
Did you vote Trump?
No. Why do you ask?
Exactly....
 
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....

Sure you do..:lmao: But you praise a prez-elect who's most likely to EXPAND surveillance on the general American population. Trump also knows no limits to the powers he's inherited to intimidate and FORCE his deals on people and companies. And he LOVES to deficit spend. He made a big deal about that. Which means your wallet and your children's wallets are gonna be a lot "less free"...
I haven't seen him act as POTUS yet like you and democrats apparently have.....

His pronouncements and ideas are downright scary. A Repub who LOVES deficit spending? A guy who wants to TAKE Iraqi oil and GIVE it to Exxon Mobil? (this is before he put the KING of Exxon Mobil in charge our diplomacy :ack-1:) The arrogance and lack of principles is SOOO far from the humble qualified governors that the LParty ran that America deserves to be sweaty and worried for the next 4 years. They could have had an intervention between your 2 warring tribes and put all this partisan dick poking on hold...
 
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....

Sure you do..:lmao: But you praise a prez-elect who's most likely to EXPAND surveillance on the general American population. Trump also knows no limits to the powers he's inherited to intimidate and FORCE his deals on people and companies. And he LOVES to deficit spend. He made a big deal about that. Which means your wallet and your children's wallets are gonna be a lot "less free"...
I haven't seen him act as POTUS yet like you and democrats apparently have.....

His pronouncements and ideas are downright scary. A Repub who LOVES deficit spending? A guy who wants to TAKE Iraqi oil and GIVE it to Exxon Mobil? (this is before he put the KING of Exxon Mobil in charge our diplomacy :ack-1:) The arrogance and lack of principles is SOOO far from the humble qualified governors that the LParty ran that America deserves to be sweaty and worried for the next 4 years. They could have had an intervention between your 2 warring tribes and put all this partisan dick poking on hold...
i don't find his pronouncements scary at all....

There were two choice this past election...

Slam the brakes on the speeding car (no guarantee it won't go over the cliff)

Slam the gas on the speeding car...

And you choose to get out of the car and jump off the cliff....

I'll wait and see if the brakes are good or not.....
 
Heh...
That's true. So far, all we've only seem him act as a jackass. Maybe he has a hidden side waiting to blossom.
You sad Hillary lost?

No. Why do you ask?
Did you vote Trump?
No. Why do you ask?
Exactly....

Well, I don't know why you're being evasive, or what you're trying to insinuate. But you're right that no one really knows how Trump will behave as President. All we have to go on is his behavior in the campaign, which was asinine. Hopefully he'll change once he's sworn in, but I see no reason to expect it.
 
You sad Hillary lost?

No. Why do you ask?
Did you vote Trump?
No. Why do you ask?
Exactly....

Well, I don't know why you're being evasive, or what you're trying to insinuate. But you're right that no one really knows how Trump will behave as President. All we have to go on is his behavior in the campaign, which was asinine. Hopefully he'll change once he's sworn in, but I see no reason to expect it.
He best not change a fucking thing.....
 
Small "l" libertarian here.

I wouldn't say you're a libertarian, moderate or otherwise, not yet at least. Take your heroin example. The question shouldn't be whether or not heroin should or should not be legal. The question should be why should anyone have the right to tell a free man what he can or cannot put into his own body? If our bodies are not free, surely we are not free.

I vote more freedom.
As a conservative, I vote Liberty.....

Sure you do..:lmao: But you praise a prez-elect who's most likely to EXPAND surveillance on the general American population. Trump also knows no limits to the powers he's inherited to intimidate and FORCE his deals on people and companies. And he LOVES to deficit spend. He made a big deal about that. Which means your wallet and your children's wallets are gonna be a lot "less free"...
I haven't seen him act as POTUS yet like you and democrats apparently have.....

His pronouncements and ideas are downright scary. A Repub who LOVES deficit spending? A guy who wants to TAKE Iraqi oil and GIVE it to Exxon Mobil? (this is before he put the KING of Exxon Mobil in charge our diplomacy :ack-1:) The arrogance and lack of principles is SOOO far from the humble qualified governors that the LParty ran that America deserves to be sweaty and worried for the next 4 years. They could have had an intervention between your 2 warring tribes and put all this partisan dick poking on hold...
i don't find his pronouncements scary at all....

There were two choice this past election...

Slam the brakes on the speeding car (no guarantee it won't go over the cliff)

Slam the gas on the speeding car...

And you choose to get out of the car and jump off the cliff....

I'll wait and see if the brakes are good or not.....

Yeah. You see RIGHT THERE ^^^^^ is why I left retail tribal politics 20 years ago and became a BigL Libertarian. :rofl:
 

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