Libertarian Anarchist

[Paulie]

It's not that you're not sincere, I'm sure you are. The problem comes in the neglecting to think out the results of ones philosophy. The Marxists had the same problem. Eventually a well meaning ideology gets hi-jacked by opportunists. Believing either philosophy requires the belief that human nature can be changed. I don't see it coming anytime soon.

If humans are imperfect and human nature is to tend towards greed, then what makes you think human-created regulations as the be all end all are going to be the saving grace?

Regulations as a barrier to market entry are a prime example of GREED, with big business lobbying for and receiving the regulations THEY want, to keep competition at bay.

At the end of the day, we have to trust HUMANS to make sure the regulations are fair and practical. But human nature tends towards greed, right? So you'll have to forgive me if I'm not as optimistic about that as you are.

"If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action." - Ludwig von Mises

Shit, I thought I came up with that one myself.

Always a step ahead that Von Mises is.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You put it pretty well. But I doubt you'll move anyone doin' the bitter cling. Nor will Mises.

 

[OKTexas]

Shit, Americans do not have that kind of patience and political will. We can't really even put plans in place that do not bear major fruition within four years but you think we can totally rewrite all our laws, regulations, alter several constitutional amendments and carry it off over the space of at least a couple of generations and not fuck that up? You people really are ignorant of human nature.

The alternative, becoming Greece on steroids. I just hope I'm dead before it happens.

We will be the last country on earth to go the way of Greece, calm down, no need to freak out, you just suggested political reforms that would take longer than our lifetimes, mine anyway, you may be a pup still, but if nothing else you can rest assured that if we are in the shape of Greece then the rest of the world will be in the shape of Ethiopia. Cool heads bravely going slow and steady is the key, it's how conservatives used to feel about governance, nothing is to be gained by such unreasoning fear.

Unreasoning fear, do you not understand that the present regime is engaging in a fundemental transformation of this country. Maobama won't provide the legally required reports to congress on the economic impacts of new regulations that are being written daily. He is fast and stedy moving this country as far away from the founding principles as he can. I have no children, but yes I fear the country that you and I grew up in is stedly disappearing and will never be know by future generations. I spent 26 years in the uniform of my counrty, sworn to support and defend the Constitution of The United States, I still carry a uniformed services ID and consider myself bound by that oath. So freak out, no, do everything I can to properly represent that oath, you bet. If we fail to remain vigilant we will lose what we have known. I will never support a government that thinks it's above the law.

 

[Paulie]

You put it pretty well. But I doubt you'll move anyone doin' the bitter cling. Nor will Mises.

NO ONE will ever move anyone. If the TV didn't say so then....

 

[eflatminor]

I feel it is better to attack the disease of poverty by honestly addressing the causes rather than throw out the medicine because it tastes yucky...

Ever since the start LBJ's so-called 'great society', whose goal was the elimination of poverty, we've spent trillions of dollars through untold numbers of entitlement and redistributive programs. Nearly a half century later, poverty is UP over 2%.

I hope you will at least consider the possibility that whatever the cause of poverty, it has not been helped by the yucky medicine but has in fact, been made worse.

 

[rightwinger]

I feel it is better to attack the disease of poverty by honestly addressing the causes rather than throw out the medicine because it tastes yucky...

Ever since the start LBJ's so-called 'great society', whose goal was the elimination of poverty, we've spent trillions of dollars through untold numbers of entitlement and redistributive programs. Nearly a half century later, poverty is UP over 2%.

I hope you will at least consider the possibility that whatever the cause of poverty, it has not been helped by the yucky medicine but has in fact, been made worse.

1960s poverty is not the same as 2012 poverty

 

[PredFan]

This thread should be pinned.








To some of you retards' foreheads.

Good luck getting through to anyone.

 

[Paulie]

Welfare programs seem like a great idea on the surface because they bridge the gap for people who can't get by. But they're never going to eliminate poverty for people if they're utilized as a lifestyle rather than a stepping stone.

It's a huge advantage given to people. Here's some money for food, energy bills, rent, child care, health care, school, etc. Hopefully people are using the opportunity to achieve something better and not just being satisfied with it.

At the end of the day it's not eliminating poverty, it's enabling and encouraging it.

 

[Truthmatters]

how many votes did your party get last election?


when was the last time you predicted something that actaully happened?

 

[Paulie]

when was the last time you predicted something that actaully happened?

Lol, well...we predicted the Great Depression. And we predicted the housing crash and the subsequent recession.

Thanks for reminding me about that

 

[Truthmatters]

prove it

 

[Paulie]

prove it

Ok, here's Ron Paul in 2001 predicting what was to come:

[youtube]48Gfzgxh3ZQ[/youtube]

And here's Peter Schiff in 2006 predicting it when the Keynesians were saying don't worry, everything is fine:

[youtube]2I0QN-FYkpw[/youtube]

And here's a list of many others:

List of Austrian economists who publicly predicted the housing bubble and collapse - informationliberation

 

[OKTexas]

how many votes did your party get last election?


when was the last time you predicted something that actaully happened?

When's the last time your dear leader predicted something that actually happpened?

Didn't he say he would be a uniter, not a devider?
Didn't he say he would listen to ALL ideas?
Didn't he say UE would be 5% by now?
Didn't he say he would cut the deficit in half?
Didn't he say the earth would begin to heal?
Didn't he say the levels of the seas would begin to fall?

Come on be honest, didn't he say all of those and more?

Oh yes, I forgot a biggie, didn't he say his administration would be the most transparent in history?

 

[Paulie]

I mean fuck, just listen to Paul there. He explains exactly WHERE the newly created Fed money is going. Right into housing, creating a bubble!

And this was in 2001! NO ONE was talking about a housing bubble in 2001 except Austrians.

 

[eflatminor]

The second paragraph of your reply is a good example of an empty ideological response that is more attack on the status quo than a real answer, the first is just not correct. Even if factories fled to countries that allow more toxic pollution the EPA had the effect intended. I am old enough to remember before and after, sulfates were not curtailed until they were forced to, phosphates were still in soap until banned, lead was still in gas until banned, CFCs were still in spray cans until banned. No state agency or court of law had the authority to effect such beneficial changes and frankly, changing to what came next was a major driver of technology also.

I argue you're failing to see the cause vs correlation. These changes didn't come about because of government, they came about because the people demanded more environmentally friendly products. The government rode the coattails of technology, not the other way around...and in doing so, brought about many unintended and damaging consequences through their attempts to centrally control markets. Leaded fuel, for example, was being phased out when the government decided it would dictate just how that was to happen. The result was near financial devastation in Detroit and the opening of the Japanese auto market to the US. Some would argue the US auto industry never did recover. Similarly, banning phosphates in dishwasher detergent has resulted in a massive increase in the use of hot water and energy needed to get the dishes clean. Even if phosphates caused algae growth in lakes, central planners have instead caused...wait for it...a higher carbon output! Just more unintended consequences of central planners meddling.

 

[Paulie]

Here's WSJ discussing Mises predicting the Great Depression

Mark Spitznagel: The Man Who Predicted the Depression - WSJ.com

 

[TakeAStepBack]

prove it

Ok, here's Ron Paul in 2001 predicting what was to come:

[youtube]48Gfzgxh3ZQ[/youtube]

And here's Peter Schiff in 2006 predicting it when the Keynesians were saying don't worry, everything is fine:

[youtube]2I0QN-FYkpw[/youtube]

And here's a list of many others:

List of Austrian economists who publicly predicted the housing bubble and collapse - informationliberation

LAIR!!!!


This is th epart where TM leaves the thread for good. Lets be thankful.

 

[Paulie]

Somehow I doubt that's good enough for her.

Until Paul Krugman himself admits it.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Somehow I doubt that's good enough for her.

Until Paul Krugman himself admits it.

Paul Krugman isn't even an expert in macroecon. He's a trade theory specialist. But really he's a partisan hack with a Nobel prize so turds like TM cling to his every word like gospel.

 

[Paulie]

Lol, she hasn't posted since and she's not online anymore. Maybe it actually shut her up