Liberals now calling fetus an "organ of her own body"

[Zoom-boing]

No baby is born 6 months early. A four month old fetus cannot survive outside the womb - and once it is born, it is not as fetus. It is a fetus while inside, and attached to the woman. Once outside the womb, its a baby.

Love modern technology, so you're hagling over the months? What is your basis for life?

I am wanting him/her/it to admit that a baby will not survive if born 6 months early.

If you were removed from your environment and placed in one before being fully prepared for it, you would die ... as would a fetus. That doesn't make you, or a fetus, less of a human being.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Millions of adults have died? Because of what?

Abortion doesn't affect you. Your next door neighbor could have an abortion and you wouldn't be affected because you wouldn't know about it. You cannot be affected by something you are not aware of.

Do you pay attention in history class? Dictators are the most self centered people on Earth, and have been responsible for killing or letting die millions of people to further their own gains.

Your logic is flawed, because I know my next door neighbor personally. Another reason would be is that if it didn't affect me, why am I talking about it? Oh yeah, I survived an attempted abortion as a "fetus", through the use of contraceptives. It does affect me. If she had succeeded, I would not even be here arguing with you.

You have no reason to value life, but all the reason to justify taking it. Appalling.

It doesn't matter if you know your next door neighbor personally. If your neighbor had an abortion, and you didn't know about it, you wouldn't be affected by her choice, would you?

I am wanting him/her/it to admit that a baby will not survive if born 6 months early.

24 weeks is roughly 5 months in. Even so 4 months premature is rare, and in most cases results in the death of the child. But some have survived.

Stanley Nash, Baby Born Weighing One Pound, Survives After Premature Birth

Try reading it this time, sugar queen.

Baby one born at 25 weeks, baby two born at 24 weeks.

'Roughly' five months in would be about 20 weeks, and no baby has lived being born that early.

21 weeks. Getting closer year by year.

Earliest surviving premature baby goes home to her parents | Mail Online

 

[NYcarbineer]

The OP says abortion should be returned to the states.

Everyone agree? Everyone agree that the fetus is not a person in the eyes of the Constitution,

and therefore the states can legalize abortion in any manner they see fit?

 

[Papageorgio]

well then you shouldnt like obamacare and you sound like one of those mean republicans.....hilarious

they can do whatever they want just dont expect anything for free....god you sound just like me on that.......

i am happy with my socialised medicine here, but i think that if people eat junk and get fat, or smoke and get sick as a result of that, they should be on their own. They knew the risks, after all...

well then....we shouldn't be paying for abortions when a woman has sex and gets herself pregnant, she knew the risks. Right?

bingo!

 

[Darkwind]

Unless the woman was born with the baby gestating, it is NOT an organ.

So much for the left believing in science.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Unless the woman was born with the baby gestating, it is NOT an organ.

So much for the left believing in science.

The left didn't say that. If you need to lie to support your position then your position is probably unsupportable.

Which in this case it is.

If you believe a one hour old fertilized egg is a person, then amend the Constitution and then you can get on with the business of executing women, who have abortions,

for first degree murder. That is, afterall, what killing a fertilized egg would then be.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Sorry, you're being intellectually dishonest on this one. Organs are formed during fetal development, not after sex. So how about we DO start with the truth.

A fetus is part of a woman's body. I said nothing about organs.

Which part?

The fetus part, you imbecile. Jeezus HOW stupid can the Right get on this forum? Is there a stupid point beyond which they cannot go?

 

[thereisnospoon]

No baby is born 6 months early. A four month old fetus cannot survive outside the womb - and once it is born, it is not as fetus. It is a fetus while inside, and attached to the woman. Once outside the womb, its a baby.

Bullshit....A fetus is viable at 20-24 weeks. With modern medical technology, such a premature baby can indeed survive and flourish.

At 24 weeks, it hasn't been born six months early, has it? Unless you think pregnancy lasts for 11-12 months?

Semantics...Your side wants abortion on demand available up to the due date.
Look, you are not getting past this no matte what type of obfuscation you choose.
Some curtailing of abortion is going to happen. The country is demanding it. And that is all that matters.
Should the practice be banned. Absolutely not. We refuse to kowtow to dark ages Bible thumping ass backwards thinking Pentecostals.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The OP says abortion should be returned to the states.

Everyone agree? Everyone agree that the fetus is not a person in the eyes of the Constitution,

and therefore the states can legalize abortion in any manner they see fit?

No. The issue of abortion law being returned to the states. The consensus is ,YES.
SCOTUS trampled the 10Th Amendment states rights clause and created a provision in the 4th amendment that does not exist.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I guess he's never heard of that little thing called DNA, a baby only has half of its DNA from the mother, her organs have 100% of her DNA. So much for the left giving credit to science. But then it has never been about science has it?

And of course, you have the credentials that we should listen to you rather than the most quoted person in the world.

Prove me wrong, I double dog dare ya.

Also I think John Stewart is the most quoted person in the world if this board is any indication.

Straight to the "double dog dare"...A serious breach of kidom protocol!!!!!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Abortion control must be returned to the states and they can do what they want with it.

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Noam Chomsky: The fetus is an 'organ' of woman?s body

Thu Apr 04, 2013

DUBLIN, April 4, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Noam Chomsky, the most cited academic in the world, said that an unborn baby is “an organ” and a part of the mother's “own body” during a recent guest lecture at an Irish college.

"There is a strong debate at the moment with regards to a woman's right to control an organ of her own body - namely the fetus,” Chomsky said during a question and answer session at University College Dublin on Tuesday night. “There is legislation being enacted in several U.S. states to define personhood as a fertilized egg.”

"Pretty soon you can imagine legislation prohibiting the washing of hands because thousands of cells are flaked off that could be turned into a stem cell and you can grow a fetus - so you're killing a person,” he said.

“It's attacks on women's rights," he concluded

Strange how you fetus masterbaters care only about fetus's not children who are already living

WTF does this even mean?

Speakie English please.

 

[NoNukes]

I guess he's never heard of that little thing called DNA, a baby only has half of its DNA from the mother, her organs have 100% of her DNA. So much for the left giving credit to science. But then it has never been about science has it?

And of course, you have the credentials that we should listen to you rather than the most quoted person in the world.

Prove me wrong, I double dog dare ya.

Also I think John Stewart is the most quoted person in the world if this board is any indication.

No, I was right about the most quoted person in the world. And you misspelled JON Stewart. Proved you wrong twice.

 

[NoNukes]

The Right want the government to tell women what to do with their bodies but not tell them or criminals what to do with their guns.

They are against the government telling them what to do, but are quick to tell you and I what to do and what not to do.

 

[NoNukes]

because it's a seperate person....that is the truth. So Noam Chomsky thinks that dead skin cells can make babies or stem cells? For such an esteemed academic, he is stupid, I thought liberals were big fans of science, how do you come up with the dumbass idea?

Oh and trust me, conservatives love personal hygene, it's the libtards that like to do the hippie no taking a shower for a week thing.

A fetus is not a person, and if it was separate from the woman, it would be able to survive without the attachment to her, wouldn't it?

From the moment of fertilization they are a human being. Blastocyst, zygote, embryo, fetus, newborn, toddler, child, teenager, adult. All human beings in various developmental stages... but a human being all along.

A newborn cannot survive without someone feeding them and caring for them, so I guess according to you, a newborn isn't a person either.

This is only one opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

A fetus is part of a woman's body. I said nothing about organs.

Which part?

The fetus part, you imbecile. Jeezus HOW stupid can the Right get on this forum? Is there a stupid point beyond which they cannot go?

Yeah, like what, making the imbecilic claim that a fetus is an organ?

These leftist fuckwits crack me up with the levels of abject stupidity they exhibit. It's as if they haven't even taken high school biology.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

A fetus is not a person, and if it was separate from the woman, it would be able to survive without the attachment to her, wouldn't it?

From the moment of fertilization they are a human being. Blastocyst, zygote, embryo, fetus, newborn, toddler, child, teenager, adult. All human beings in various developmental stages... but a human being all along.

A newborn cannot survive without someone feeding them and caring for them, so I guess according to you, a newborn isn't a person either.

This is only one opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

No, it isn't an opinion.. life begins at conception... FACT. The only argument that can exist is that of a religious nature... like when does the soul come into play.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The OP says abortion should be returned to the states.

Everyone agree? Everyone agree that the fetus is not a person in the eyes of the Constitution,

and therefore the states can legalize abortion in any manner they see fit?

No. The issue of abortion law being returned to the states. The consensus is ,YES.
SCOTUS trampled the 10Th Amendment states rights clause and created a provision in the 4th amendment that does not exist.

The 10th amendment does not allow the states to make laws that violate the constitution.

btw, are you acknowledging that fetuses have no Constitutional rights?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The OP says abortion should be returned to the states.

Everyone agree? Everyone agree that the fetus is not a person in the eyes of the Constitution,

and therefore the states can legalize abortion in any manner they see fit?

No one disagrees with this?

Everyone agrees that the fetus has no constitutional rights?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

exactly.

think it through.

There are leftist "intellectuals" who claim infanticide is reasonable up to the age of two, so yes there are people who would agree with it.

Ok so transplanted organs are organs, but they arent yours..same with a baby. As for abortions killing someone effects their future, so yeah you have to count for that. That's the point once the egg has been fertilized it's a person, and has a future, or should have a future.
As for choices, there are many choices you can make before you get pregnant....sometimes they dont work, you have to account for that risk.....probably one of the reasons why chastity is such a virtue......noone makes you have sex, unless it's rape and then I'm still undecided on that, right now I'll error on the side of having an abortion, because the sex is not consensual, but if it is, no excuse and abortion shouldnt be used just because you made a mistake.

Your statements regarding organs, and same with a baby, is in agreement with Chomsky.

One the egg has been fertilized it is no more reached personhood than the moment before it was fertilized. Its future is no greater. Over 25% of all conceptions will be miscarried either way. No one looks at an acorn and says "THATS A GREAT LOOKING TREE!" No one believes a crushed seed as something that could have provided shade 20 years later.

But let's put our fundamental beliefs in personhood aside for one moment. The fact remains that every study that investigated outlawing abortion concludes that the number of abortions is not significantly changed. The only significant result in making abortion illegal is an increase in women dying from attempted abortion gone wrong. Either way the number of abortions will be roughly the same, so ask yourself if you'd want more women dying because it's illegal.

You cant be this stupid. ok so miscarriages happen, nature said no, not bitching about that, so toss that one out.
Next noone says an acorn is a tree because it hasnt been planted yet. With a fertilized egg you have the same conditions you need for growing. You need air, food/water, and time. That's what gets you from 2 to 85 years old, same with a fertilized egg....sperm and eggs are not people because they need to combine, but once they do, the same conditions needed to grow are in place and you are now a person.

Stop with the bs about women dying, if they are going to risk it...too bad, women die with breast implants, and other unnecessary surgeries.

The fact is if people dont have the escape hatch, they'll be a little more careful, like you know when abortion was illegal. sure some tried a DIY abortion and died, but most people had shotgun weddings or gave the babies up for adoption. Atleast the babies have a chance to bitch on a message board, when they're aborted they dont.

And Jane Roe's son is glad her mommy didnt have an abortion, imagine his feeling...just a little bit faster and he'd be dead, would be alive....tell him abortion doesnt effect people....wow you're pretty heartless.....it's all about you and your selfishness.

Now maybe you will know, people who oppose abortion but are still pro choice. WHY do they oppose abortion?

You say sperm and eggs are not people because they need to combine. Wouldn't that mean they COULD BE people if given that small needed prerequisite? The same can be said about an embryo. It's not a person because it needs, well, more than one cell. It needs MORE just as an egg needs MORE. You can't look at examples like a fertilized chicken egg or an acorn, even though they represent the exact same stage of the process. The idea that 46 chromosomes is all that's needed for personhood is ridiculous.

Similarly, the reason why you can't face the issue on 25% of all conceptions being spontaneously aborted is because it directly refutes all of your claims. Do you know WHY so many miscarriages occur? The largest reason is because that particular fusing of sperm and egg was abnormal or not sufficient. It produces something incompatible with life, and so the body naturally discards the non-viable conception. This directly proves that sperm meeting egg is not sufficient in creating a person. The human body knows this. Apparently you don't.

Comparing the death of women for elective surgeries to DIY home abortions is ridiculous, by the way. Did you really go there?

As for Jane Roe, you again return to the time-bending claim that people who weren't aborted appreciate they are alive. This once again demonstrates your lack of intellect as you continue to make claims on retroactive time-bending decision making. Using your logic, I might as well ask you to show me someone who cares they were aborted. Note how your logic doesn't work.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

A fetus is part of a woman's body. I said nothing about organs.

That was the premiss of the OP, Chomsky claiming the fetus was an organ of a woman's body. We both know that is not true. If I misunderstood your intent you have my apology.

I don't agree with him. To me, an organ is something which is in your body when you are born and remains with you forever. Something that is in your body for a short period of time does not meet the definition of 'organ', at least IMO.

WE HAVE A WINNER! Someone who was actually willing to give some definition of organ before refuting the claim!

Hicks, take note of how academic refutation works, and try to model Noomi's example in the future.

Abortion control must be returned to the states and they can do what they want with it.

A fetus is a part of a woman's body for the duration of pregnancy. What is wrong with stating the truth?

What part of a woman's body is no longer intact when she has an abortion?

what does that have to do with anything?