Liberal logic on IDs and voting

[ClosedCaption]

We also found a May 24, 2011, report from Norman Robbins, research director for Northeast Ohio Voter Advocates, that examined driver’s license data specifically in Ohio. The report concluded that 940,000 Ohioans over age 18 lacked driver’s licenses.

PolitiFact Ohio | Rep. Marcia Fudge says 11 percent of eligible voters lack a government ID

 

[Redfish]

A good number of these people, particularly seniors, function well with the IDs they have long had — such as Medicaid cards, Social Security cards or bank cards. Among the elderly, many of them have banked at the same branch for so long that tellers recognize them without needing to see their IDs. They also may rarely need to cash or deposit checks, relying instead on the direct depositing of Social Security and pension payments.

"The people we're finding are very poor people, people who never drove — and it's surprising how many people are like that," says Larry Dupuis of the American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, which has filed suit to overturn that state's voter ID law. "They tend to be older people, often women. They also never had a need for a state ID card. There are many things you don't need an ID card for that people think you actually need one for."

Why New Photo ID Laws Mean Some Won't Vote : NPR


Blah!! We still need ID's because we need ID's!

and then you post something from NPR-------------

when are you going to take on ID requirements for buying booze? If they poor don't have IDs then they are being deprived of the right to booze----if your attempt at logic is followed to its ridiculous conclusion.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Now the response to everyone of these links will be they either don't believe it, don't understand it, or don't care.

Then they will tell how easy it is despite reading for themselves its not.

Why would they do that? Back to my original point, they want to restrict the number of voters and the time they have to vote. No other reason exists. Ask how restricting early voting stops fraud? Then sit back and realize what its really about.

 

[Clementine]

We need an ID to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to sign up for welfare, to get food stamps, to use your medicade card but you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting) to vote but they can get every where else to use the money they get FREE from the government GOTTCHA... Oh forgot you need an ID to get finger nail polish remover in some areas .. YEP

This illogical fallacy is getting really tired.

I can demonstrate that showing an ID is the only way to prove someone is of legal drinking age, but you cannot show that Voter ID is the only way to prevent or catch voter fraud. In fact, you cannot show any actual voter fraud which could only have been caught or prevented by Voter ID.

We constantly see examples of corruption, fraud, waste and abuse in virtually every government or private program. I don't buy that our voting process is the only thing free of such dishonesty.

The argument I hear is that voting is a right and therefore not subject to anything that might interfere with it. We also hear your above argument that we need not take precaution because there is not yet sufficient proof that safeguarding is needed. Great, are you going to keep your doors unlocked since you have not yet been robbed or had your home invaded?

Gun ownership is also a right, which has been regulated, restricted and some want it banned. They do this despite evidence to the contrary that it has any effect on crime rates. While mass murders are more rare than voter fraud, they still use that excuse to further restrict our rights.

If you don't look for something, you won't find it. Who has looked hard for evidence of cheating in some areas that have liberals in charge and where 100%, more in a few cases, of the votes went for Obama? The impossible results are not questioned and largely ignored, yet there are obvious problems in some areas. But, as long as the liberal media doesn't question it or report on it, it doesn't exist, right?

People claim that they cannot obtain an ID, even though it's free, yet they somehow figure out how to register to vote, collect welfare, rent or own a home, drive a car, buy cigarettes and beer and many other things. I don't believe for one second that a good number of people are simply unable to get an ID. There are those who simply can't or won't because they are here illegally or for some other reason don't want anyone to know their real identity. I say too bad. If they care, they will take the simple step of getting a damn ID and ensuring that the information on their registration is correct. If they are too stupid or unwilling to do that, then they won't get to vote.

 

[francoHFW]

A) Thereis no problem, B) People need proof to register, and C) all kinds of people are getting screwed by this, people who've been voting for years- old white people as well. It's another power grab by a-hole Pubs and theit silly angry white man hater dupes lol.

 

[g5000]

the logic-fail is on the side of the libs who can never tell us who is disenfranchised by voter ID

Practically everyone.

It wouldn't be free and subject to challenge.

Which would make voting that much more difficult and cumbersome.

But that's what you folks want.

Please explain exactly how presenting an ID would make voting more difficult and cumbersome.

I posted examples.

 

[g5000]

These guys are playing the perpetual ignorance game.

How does this hurt the poor? Answer: It does
How is getting an ID a problem? Answer: It is
Why is getting an ID a big deal? Answer: Restricts for no reason

Repubs response: Still for it
Repubs reason: "Unknown" (but we know the reasons)

are those poor on welfare, food stamps, or medicaid? If so, they have an ID

Bad assumption. They may have had ID at the time they applied for assitance, that does not mean it has not expired since then.

You also assume the identification necessary for welfare meets the same strict standards of some Voter ID laws.

Getting an ID is no more difficult that getting to the polling place, if you can get to the polling place you can get an ID

It's an extra step. An extra, completely unnecessary step that will not stop voter fraud.

 

[Flopper]

We need an ID to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to sign up for welfare, to get food stamps, to use your medicade card but you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting) to vote but they can get every where else to use the money they get FREE from the government GOTTCHA... Oh forgot you need an ID to get finger nail polish remover in some areas .. YEP

It's not so much a matter of cost as it is the difficulty for the elderly, poor and disabled to get the id's and getting to the poll with them. The problems of course varies by state since state voting laws dictate voter identification.

The logic behind a voter id requirement is of course to prevent voter fraud. The real reasons for the dispute goes much deeper. Republicans feel that it would be to their advantage to discourage the poor, blacks, and Latinos from voting because these groups usually vote Democrat. Democrats feel that adding a voter id requirement would reduce the number in those groups voting.

For years the GOP and right wing media have has been blowing up isolated incidents of voter fraud into a national crisis which of course it isn't. There are very few prosecutions for voter fraud and a lot fewer convictions. Texas is probably the most aggressive state in detecting and prosecuting voter fraud. It has convicted only 51 people in 10 years yet only four of those cases were for voter impersonation, the only type of voter fraud that voter ID laws prevent.

Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud, according to a Department of Justice study outlined during a 2006 Congressional hearing. Only 26 of those cases, or about .00000013 percent of the votes cast, resulted in convictions or guilty pleas.

Voter fraud exist, but it is very rare. If we had voter id's nationwide, it would no difference in election outcomes. A far greater problem is miscounts, voting device failure, and irregularities at the polls.

Voter Fraud: It's Real, But Rare - ABC News

 

[g5000]

I just find it really bizarre people who think they are conservatives are demanding completely unnecessary new laws and government intervention which will do absolutely nothing to stop voter fraud and which only succeeds in making it more difficult to exercise a constitutional right. I find this obession with identity papers very troubling.

Our country is being hijacked by totalitarians left and right.

No new laws are being proposed.

Excuse me!?!?!

VOTER ID LAWS are being proposed.

 

[g5000]

By the way Mr Blow, I will vote using your name in every election within 30 seconds of the polls opening. I will use your vote in every election. Then I will go cast my vote. So I get 2, while you get none. Voter ID would stop me from doing that.

Still with the masturbatory fantasy! Such fraud would be immediately detected, without Voter ID. That's why you don't hear of the MILLIONS of such fraudulent votes you conjured up in your desperate imagination.

And yet you persist in this imaginary wet dream! Why is that? Every logical person knows this is a stupid fantasy, yet you keep repeating and repeating it, trying to make it true. Downright pathological.

I am very curious why you are so insistent on Voter ID when you cannot prove a single case where it would have been the only means to prevent or stop voter fraud. It's a low bar, and yet you cannot hurdle it. That you have somehow been brainwashed into believing MILLIONS of such things are going on is simply fascinating.

You should really ask yourself why your masters want everyone to have identity papers so badly when they clearly won't stop voter fraud. Seems to me it is obvious the real reason has nothing to do with elections. National identity papers sure would make everyone easier to track and control.

 

[kwc57]

This illogical fallacy is getting really tired.

I can demonstrate that showing an ID is the only way to prove someone is of legal drinking age, but you cannot show that Voter ID is the only way to prevent or catch voter fraud. In fact, you cannot show any actual voter fraud which could only have been caught or prevented by Voter ID.

Why is it that Voter ID scares the panties off of liberals so badly?

In my precinct, the good volunteers behind the table have a listing of every registered voter in that precinct. It also has our address listed. You tell them your name and they flip to your page and you sign your name on the dotted line before being given a ballot. This is of course after you show them your photo ID. They know that each person who walks in to vote is exactly who they say they are and can prove it and actually lives in the precinct. There is no voter fraud at the ballot box in my state because you simply can't walk up and say you are Joe Blow and demand a ballot. It has absolutely nothing to do with race or income and everything to do with being who you say you are as a registered voter in that precinct. Why is that so scary to liberals?

they can't explain it. they just feeeeeeeeeeeeeel like its evil.

And the deal is, getting a photo ID is so simple. I was an Assistant Scoutmaster for the 2005 Boy Scout National Jamboree. Back then, the Jambo was held at Fort AP Hill in Virginia. Since we flew to DC and toured prior to that and then went on a military base, every kid was required to have photo ID. Didn't have it, didn't fly or get on base. My son was 12 and I took him down to the DPS and for something like $10 walked out with a state of OKlahoma photo ID. Believe it or not........even the minority kids who went with us were able to get one.

 

[kwc57]

Wrong on all counts. Early voting is fine, but if its too early it deprives some voters of last minute election developments and information on the candidates. or do you favor an ignorant voting base?

Find one person making that argument. They want to make it hard as possible for people to vote. No one who votes early ever said they wish they had less time. Save that "doing it for their own good" crap



How will ID and stopping early voting stop either one. Show some links, we all know you can spin a yarn and make up something real quick

democrats want to be able to buy the elections......

**** outta here lets hear about YOU and what YOU want...Stop projecting

what do I want? for every citizen to be able to vote in every election if they choose to. For every voter to prove his/her identity before casting a ballot. For our election process to be fair to everyone. For those here illegally to be denied the rights afforded to citizens. For dead people and convicted felons to not be allowed to vote. For each voter to vote only once and in only one place. For those with no ID to be issued one free of charge.

which of those things do you object to?

They object because they can't win elections on a level playing field with fair rules.

 

[kaz]

In fact, you cannot show any actual voter fraud which could only have been caught or prevented by Voter ID.

So when dead people show up to vote, you're thinking the staffers aren't too focused on checking their ID's. I guess the ones who watch the Walking Dead are with you anyway.

And there are just hordes of blacks out there who are too lazy to get a free ID, but they will in fact show up at the polls.

Says a lot about your view of Obama and the people who vote for him...

 

[kaz]

They object because they can't win elections on a level playing field with fair rules.

Any election conducted on a level playing field with fair rules will result in the election of the Democrat. Therefore, if the Democrat does not win they were cheated, and it's up to every good liberal to cheat back and correct the flawed election result.

 

[kwc57]

We need an ID to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to sign up for welfare, to get food stamps, to use your medicade card but you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting) to vote but they can get every where else to use the money they get FREE from the government GOTTCHA... Oh forgot you need an ID to get finger nail polish remover in some areas .. YEP

So let me get this straight...you want someone who has registered to vote, providing ID at the time of that registration and that ID was cleared through a statewide system, to also present a state issued photo ID (something 11% of the population does not have) each time they vote in order to stop the 0.00001% of "voter fraud" that would be stopped by photo ID but balk at a background check and freak out at the idea of a gun registry?

How about a compromise? Free photo SS cards and an ID requirement in exchange for background checks on all gun purchases?

Voting is not a constitutional right.......but guns are. You do realize that don't you? Have you liberals ever actually read the document?

 

[kwc57]

All that is happening right now. If it not broke don't fix it. Why are you trying to fix something that's not broken and fits your list of needs above. To hurt the less fortunate

In this state it is, we have had voter ID for years. Nothing to fix in the states that already have voter ID.

Why does voter ID hurt the less fortunate? 99.999% of them have ID's in order to get govt benefits. I really don't understand why you object to requiring voters to prove who they are before voting, and you have yet to tell us who specifically would be harmed.

The only possible explanation is that you support corruption in the voting process and that voter ID makes corruption more difficult.

So after 3-4 exchanges with you you cant say why the ID is "needed" other than because I want it.

Again, to stop as many people as possible from voting. Unless you remember a good reason some other time

A gift for you. Reading Comprehension Worksheets

 

[kaz]

to also present a state issued photo ID (something 11% of the population does not have

The good news is most of the 11% don't need to present IDs when they vote, because they can't vote, because they are children...

Don't you love statistics from liberal think tanks?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We need an ID to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigs, to sign up for welfare, to get food stamps, to use your medicade card but you want us to believe that people are to poor to get a FREE ID ( they are free you know for voting) to vote but they can get every where else to use the money they get FREE from the government GOTTCHA... Oh forgot you need an ID to get finger nail polish remover in some areas .. YEP

Fail.

There is no Constitutional right to drive, to get on a plane, to get into a bar, to buy a beer, to buy cigarettes, to apply for public assistance, to use your Medicaid card, or to buy finger nail polish remover.

There is, however, a Constitutional right to vote.

Your premise is consequently a fallacy, you’re comparing two completely different things, totally unrelated to each other.

Because voting is a fundamental right, the greater burden is placed on the state to limit or restrict that right. The state is compelled to provide documented evidence that voter ‘fraud’ is of such a magnitude that the outcome of a given election might be changed.

There is no evidence of this, voter ‘fraud’ is in essence a conservative myth, a partisan contrivance of the right.

 

[kaz]

There is, however, a Constitutional right to vote

Can you show us that line in the Constitution?

 

[g5000]

In fact, you cannot show any actual voter fraud which could only have been caught or prevented by Voter ID.

So when dead people show up to vote, you're thinking the staffers aren't too focused on checking their ID's. I guess the ones who watch the Walking Dead are with you anyway.

And there are just hordes of blacks out there who are too lazy to get a free ID, but they will in fact show up at the polls.

Says a lot about your view of Obama and the people who vote for him...

So many fallacies, so little time.

First, I detest Obama. I just think it is hilarious the GOP is so dysfunctional these days they can't even beat someone like Obama. It says a lot about the sad state of affairs the party is in. It is time to take out the trash, one faux conservative at a time.

"When dead people show up to vote". More illogic. This is not something which only Voter ID can solve or prevent. In fact, your Voter ID is not going to cure that problem. All that is needed is for the registration rolls to be properly managed and cleared of dead people. You want to treat the symptom instead of the disease.

Dead people on voter rolls is evidence of just how fucked up and mismanaged the government is, and yet you are demanding MORE government intervention.

Amazing.

Fix what is broken, don't be piling more red tape on top!


Hey, and thanks for once again proving the faux right bashes blacks, Muslims, immigrants, and homosexuals every chance they get.

Real attractive!

And thanks for admitting, sideways, that Voter ID places another burden between you and the exercising of your constitutional rights. "Too lazy". That's an admission it is more work between you and your vote.

You want more red tape, more government intervention, more burdens on your rights. Please turn in your conservative credentials at the nearest trashcan.