Let's talk about guns

[Katzndogz]

I had an argument with a friend about guns he said we need to get rid of guns in the USA and be safer like his relatives in the UK

I reminded him about this:

A gunman killed at least 12 people in a rampage through quiet towns in and around the scenic Lake District of northwest England on Wednesday in Britain's worst shooting spree for 14 years.

Taxi driver kills 12 in U.K. rampage - The Globe and Mail

Gun Laws are for the law abiding person.

Criminals and Fruit-Loops can always get a gun.


.

The UK has basically criminalized self defense.

 

[JoeB131]

Bullshit stats. No evidence supports your stats.

Other than a study by a respected scholar named Kellerman, you mean. Which was repeated in several cities and got the same result?

You mean the rabid anti gun Kellerman?

No, I mean the guy who did meticulous peer-reviewed research that has been validated by other studies...

which just happen to say things you don't want to hear...

 

[JoeB131]

I had an argument with a friend about guns he said we need to get rid of guns in the USA and be safer like his relatives in the UK

I reminded him about this:

A gunman killed at least 12 people in a rampage through quiet towns in and around the scenic Lake District of northwest England on Wednesday in Britain's worst shooting spree for 14 years.

Taxi driver kills 12 in U.K. rampage - The Globe and Mail

Gun Laws are for the law abiding person.

Criminals and Fruit-Loops can always get a gun.


.

The UK has basically criminalized self defense.

And this is something that happens in the UK maybe once a decade as opposed to once a year as it does in this country.

Fact is, we have 9000 gun deaths a year and the UK has about 114.

In a way, we are spending a bit too much time worry about spree shootings and mass murders, because this is what gets our attention. We worry less about the single victim incidents, of which we have a lot more because the wrong kind of people get guns.

 

[hortysir]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydrtF45-y-g]Salt-N-Pepa - Let's Talk About Sex - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JoeB131]

I had an argument with a friend about guns he said we need to get rid of guns in the USA and be safer like his relatives in the UK

I reminded him about this:

A gunman killed at least 12 people in a rampage through quiet towns in and around the scenic Lake District of northwest England on Wednesday in Britain's worst shooting spree for 14 years.

Taxi driver kills 12 in U.K. rampage - The Globe and Mail

Gun Laws are for the law abiding person.

Criminals and Fruit-Loops can always get a gun.


.

The point is, you have to go back 14 years to find one that bad in the UK.

In the US, you have to go back... um, well, probably to last year...

Daily Kos: How Many More Mass (5th Column) Killings Will The US Endure?

July 2012 - AURORA, Colo. - A gunman in a gas mask and body armor killed 12 people at a midnight premiere of the new "Batman" movie in a suburb of Denver early on Friday, opening fire on moviegoers after hurling a gas canister into the theater.

January 2011 - a gunman opened fire at a public gathering outside a grocery in Tucson, Arizona, killing six people including a 9-year-old girl and wounding at least 12 others. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was severely injured with a gunshot to the head.

February 2010 – A professor opened fire 50 minutes into at a Biological Sciences Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, killing three colleagues and wounding three others.

November 2009 - U.S. army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire at a military base in Fort Hood, Texas, leaving 13 dead and 42 others wounded.

July 2009 - Six people, including one student, were shot in a drive-by shooting at a community rally on the campus of Texas Southern University, Houston.

April 2009 - a man shot dead 13 people at a civic center in Binghamton, New York.

March 2009 - six people were shot dead in a high-grade apartment building in Santa Clara, California.

March 2009 - a heavily armed gunman shot dead eight people, many of them elderly and sick people, in a private-owned nursing home in North Carolina.

March 2009 - a 28-year-old laid-off worker opened fire while driving a car through several towns in Alabama, killing 10 people.

December 2008 - a man dressed in a Santa Claus suit opened fire at a family Christmas party in Covina, California, then set fire on the house and killed himself. Police later found nine people dead in the debris of the house.

And the list goes on, but I'll stop there.

 

[hortysir]

I had an argument with a friend about guns he said we need to get rid of guns in the USA and be safer like his relatives in the UK

I reminded him about this:

A gunman killed at least 12 people in a rampage through quiet towns in and around the scenic Lake District of northwest England on Wednesday in Britain's worst shooting spree for 14 years.

Taxi driver kills 12 in U.K. rampage - The Globe and Mail

Gun Laws are for the law abiding person.

Criminals and Fruit-Loops can always get a gun.


.

The point is, you have to go back 14 years to find one that bad in the UK.

In the US, you have to go back... um, well, probably to last year...

Daily Kos: How Many More Mass (5th Column) Killings Will The US Endure?

July 2012 - AURORA, Colo. - A gunman in a gas mask and body armor killed 12 people at a midnight premiere of the new "Batman" movie in a suburb of Denver early on Friday, opening fire on moviegoers after hurling a gas canister into the theater.

January 2011 - a gunman opened fire at a public gathering outside a grocery in Tucson, Arizona, killing six people including a 9-year-old girl and wounding at least 12 others. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was severely injured with a gunshot to the head.

February 2010 – A professor opened fire 50 minutes into at a Biological Sciences Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, killing three colleagues and wounding three others.

November 2009 - U.S. army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire at a military base in Fort Hood, Texas, leaving 13 dead and 42 others wounded.

July 2009 - Six people, including one student, were shot in a drive-by shooting at a community rally on the campus of Texas Southern University, Houston.

April 2009 - a man shot dead 13 people at a civic center in Binghamton, New York.

March 2009 - six people were shot dead in a high-grade apartment building in Santa Clara, California.

March 2009 - a heavily armed gunman shot dead eight people, many of them elderly and sick people, in a private-owned nursing home in North Carolina.

March 2009 - a 28-year-old laid-off worker opened fire while driving a car through several towns in Alabama, killing 10 people.

December 2008 - a man dressed in a Santa Claus suit opened fire at a family Christmas party in Covina, California, then set fire on the house and killed himself. Police later found nine people dead in the debris of the house.

And the list goes on, but I'll stop there.

Chicago has a gun ban, Joe.

How's that working out for your crime rate?

 

[Katzndogz]

I had an argument with a friend about guns he said we need to get rid of guns in the USA and be safer like his relatives in the UK

I reminded him about this:

A gunman killed at least 12 people in a rampage through quiet towns in and around the scenic Lake District of northwest England on Wednesday in Britain's worst shooting spree for 14 years.

Taxi driver kills 12 in U.K. rampage - The Globe and Mail

Gun Laws are for the law abiding person.

Criminals and Fruit-Loops can always get a gun.


.

The UK has basically criminalized self defense.

And this is something that happens in the UK maybe once a decade as opposed to once a year as it does in this country.

Fact is, we have 9000 gun deaths a year and the UK has about 114.

In a way, we are spending a bit too much time worry about spree shootings and mass murders, because this is what gets our attention. We worry less about the single victim incidents, of which we have a lot more because the wrong kind of people get guns.

Crazy people get guns because there are laws protecting the civil liberties of the criminally insane. They can't be locked up against their will. They don't have to take their medication. They can refuse treatment.

Holmes put a creepy message on his answering machine. That's not illegal.

You will never, ever, be able to protect against the individual who becomes insane. What is the most disturbing of all are the people who want to find reasons why these kinds of thing occur. He's a sociopath, he's depressed, all people like this need is to get "help". All can be resolved through the proper application of the right kind of therapy.

 

[JoeB131]

Chicago has a gun ban, Joe.

How's that working out for your crime rate?

Well, not so well when you have a rathole like Cicero where people can walk over and buy guns with impunity...

Either you have one uniform law for the whole country, or you don't.

 

[JoeB131]

Crazy people get guns because there are laws protecting the civil liberties of the criminally insane. They can't be locked up against their will. They don't have to take their medication. They can refuse treatment.

Holmes put a creepy message on his answering machine. That's not illegal.

You will never, ever, be able to protect against the individual who becomes insane. What is the most disturbing of all are the people who want to find reasons why these kinds of thing occur. He's a sociopath, he's depressed, all people like this need is to get "help". All can be resolved through the proper application of the right kind of therapy.

I have no delusions. I think our mental health care system is a mess compared to other countries, and both parties have their share of the blame for it. (The right for underfunding it at every turn, the left for thinking that locking them up is bad.)

Fact is, we used to lock up people like Holmes and Loughner when they got too big and dangerous for their families to control them, and the world was better off for it. Then some idiots decided to empty out the mental hospitals, and we have to play "Dodge the Stew-Bum" if you live in a big urban area.

 

[Katzndogz]

No amount of funding for mental health and medication will benefit the person who does not believe they need this kind of treatment.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Well, not so well when you have a rathole like Cicero where people can walk over and buy guns with impunity...

You can't purchase firearms legally out of state.

Already illegal. You REALLY might find something else to argue or just stick to Mormon bashing.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, not so well when you have a rathole like Cicero where people can walk over and buy guns with impunity...

You can't purchase firearms legally out of state.

Already illegal. You REALLY might find something else to argue or just stick to Mormon bashing.

Guy, I grew up in Chicago, and I lived in Cicero (which is in IL) for 13 years.

Two things Cicero was known for.

1) Strip joints that were really fronts for prostitution.

2) Gun shops that would pretty much sell a gun to anything that walked in the door.

The city of Chicago tried to get these suburban gun dealers closed down, or to at least not sell to Chicago residents, and had no progress doing so.

 

[JoeB131]

No amount of funding for mental health and medication will benefit the person who does not believe they need this kind of treatment.

Then you lock them up... simple enough.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The right to bear arms means that you have the right to defend yourself if you're attacked.

Do you really need 100 round drums (like the Batman Massacre), or 31 bullets per mag. (as per Jared Laughtner)?

If you can't kill your target in 15 shots or less for self defense, you deserve to die.

Um, well, now see, I cannot "thank" your post because of the last sentence........ must you have added it?

Actually...........yes I did. Why? Because obviously you've bought a tool that you didn't bother to practice with (and I shot at least 150 rounds/month when I had that tool), you deserve to reap the rewards of not practicing with what you have.

 

[daveman]

Pro: The gun control debate is over.

Cons: The gun control debate is over and Cons are sore winners.

Oh, so you believe a woman being raped and murdered is morally superior to a woman who defends herself with a firearm.

 

[JoeB131]

Pro: The gun control debate is over.

Cons: The gun control debate is over and Cons are sore winners.

Oh, so you believe a woman being raped and murdered is morally superior to a woman who defends herself with a firearm.

That woman is 43 times more likely to be injured by her own gun than use it to kill an attacker.

Sorry guns in the house do not make you safer.

 

[PratchettFan]

Pro: The gun control debate is over.

Cons: The gun control debate is over and Cons are sore winners.

Oh, so you believe a woman being raped and murdered is morally superior to a woman who defends herself with a firearm.

That woman is 43 times more likely to be injured by her own gun than use it to kill an attacker.

Sorry guns in the house do not make you safer.

Personally, I'm not looking to be safer. I have guns in my house because I want them and can afford them. If that makes it more likely for me to get hurt, I'm ok with that. That's a decision I make for myself.

 

[daveman]

Pro: The gun control debate is over.

Cons: The gun control debate is over and Cons are sore winners.

Oh, so you believe a woman being raped and murdered is morally superior to a woman who defends herself with a firearm.

That woman is 43 times more likely to be injured by her own gun than use it to kill an attacker.

Sorry guns in the house do not make you safer.

You keep posting stats...without citations.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Oh, so you believe a woman being raped and murdered is morally superior to a woman who defends herself with a firearm.

That woman is 43 times more likely to be injured by her own gun than use it to kill an attacker.

Sorry guns in the house do not make you safer.

Personally, I'm not looking to be safer. I have guns in my house because I want them and can afford them. If that makes it more likely for me to get hurt, I'm ok with that. That's a decision I make for myself.

You know................it's not so much the guns that I have a problem with, it's the amount of ammo you can carry in that gun before reloading.

I'm pretty sure when the Founding Fathers wrote our Constitution, they were thinking about muzzle loading rifles that took anywhere from 1 min to 1 1/2 min to reload. If they had AR-15's with 100 round magazines (like what the person in CO had), I'm pretty sure they would have made limits on what the citizens could and couldn't have, because back then, all gun technology was pretty much the same.

Things didn't change until almost 100 years later with Remington and Winchester, but there was still a long way to go before they got to the AR-15.

I've said it before..........magazines and clips should be limited to NO MORE than 15 rounds. If you can't hit your target by then, you need to practice more, because the guns of today have a much larger penetration than the muskets of old, which means that not only should you be thinking about your target, but also where the stray shots can go.

Besides..............do you really NEED an assault rifle with 30 round clips to hunt a deer? I did pretty well with just a regular bolt action rifle.

But then again, I'm from Montana where we actually know how to shoot and hunt.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, so you believe a woman being raped and murdered is morally superior to a woman who defends herself with a firearm.

That woman is 43 times more likely to be injured by her own gun than use it to kill an attacker.

Sorry guns in the house do not make you safer.

Personally, I'm not looking to be safer. I have guns in my house because I want them and can afford them. If that makes it more likely for me to get hurt, I'm ok with that. That's a decision I make for myself.

I have no problem with that.

As long as you realize it's a privilage and not a right.