'Let's Not Shoot These Kids': Florida Police Caught In Shootout With 12yo Boy, 14yo Girl

[2aguy]

Until you need the gun

Wrong.

I keep a handgun unsecured when I’m home.

When I leave home it’s either secured or comes with me.

This isn’t difficult to understand – one can be both a responsible gunowner and maintain personal security.

You do realize that if you lock your doors and windows when you leave that the gun in your home is secured don't you

A safe designed to secure weapons, has a different level of security built into it, that's because it's a weapon that it's attempting to secure, otherwise as opposed to the Windows and doors on your home etc. The gun safe is designed with far greater thought going into it than the lock on your Windows or door's had designed into them. It's simple really, otherwise you might hide a $10.00 dollar bill from your brother in a cookie jar, but if it's a thousand dollar bill you would up the level by putting in a "safe" or rather find a super safer place if you didn't want him to steal it from you.

And poor people who want to own a gun......will be told that can't own them if they can't buy gun locks and a safe as well....right?

Again, first, they just wanted gun locks...it only made sense.....now they are pushing for gun safes.......and they will keep demanding more and more and better and better safes and increasing the penalties if you don't have one....it isn't about keeping your guns safe, it is about keeping people from making the effort to own and carry guns......

Until you realize that, you will be another useful you know what for them...

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Gun owners are amazingly responsible but when criminals break the law, break into homes, it isn't the fault of the home owner.......

This is why even the NRA agrees with guns having trigger locks, being kept in gun safes, and keeping the guns completely separate from the ammunition.

None of that was done.

Until you need the gun....you mean except for that...right? When the guy is in your home and you don't have 10 minutes to get to the safe, punch in the code, take out the gun, find the key to the trigger lock, unlock the lock, then go to where you keep the ammo, and, I imagine you want that in a separate safe too.........then load the gun....

The guy, or guys are in your home, likely armed.....but the 30 steps you need to deploy your weapon....I am sure they will wait till you get all the steps done...

Right?

These guns were in a locked house....they broke the law.....

If we let idiots like you set up mandatory storage rules then we will have to eventually store the keys to the gun locks at a police station or gun store and get written permission to access those keys before we can unlock the guns...

Sorry, no thanks.

They broke into a home......this is on them.

To start with, you are carrying your concealed weapon while you are away from the home, so if you return home and it's being robbed, then 1st you contact the law, and you get them on the way while you secure the perimeter. If you surprise the criminal's because you walked in on them, then hopefully you get the drop on them before they get you with your own guns left in an unsafe manor. But if you have your weapons secured, then you have the upper hand if they didn't bring the weapons with them. If you have your home secured, then you have the upper hand again, because hopefully their weaponry won't be as good as what you are carrying on your person. If they get the drop on you, then the the only hope is that the 9-11 call you might have made in the first senario (if you couldn't wait on them before going in) will have the police on the way in order to secure the location again, hopefully save you, and deal with the burglar's before they escape. The second situation is just going to be you and them if they get surprised.

I agree.....

But I will never support government mandates on storing your guns in your own home....that leads to draconian rules meant to entrap normal gun owners....not going to support it.

And I had a situation where we came home and the door was open.........we left the door open accidentally as it turned out....I didn't enter, I called the police....they searched the house...I didn't "secure the perimeter," I let them do it...that is how you do it...I also informed them that I had guns in the home........

Guns were secure, good work.

Yep....then the criminals broke in and stole them.

What you don't understand is there is no security level that will be acceptable to the anti-gun extremists.......and they want all locks and safes to be mandatory.....barring a lot of people from owning or carrying guns.......and then will come the home inspections to make sure you are following every single "i" and "t" they want you to dot and cross......

Life sentence if you steal guns.....that is how you stop this........but you want to help them make it impossible for normal people to own and carry guns......you think this is a ratinal, legitimate demand....it is not......they want mandatory locks and safes not for safety, but as an impediment to own and carry guns especially for the poor and minorities....it is also racist at its core...

I understand your fears of government, because I see it also big time these days, but if these things aren't addressed properly by we the citizen's, then the government that you fear will become a reality, because it's going to use or exploit everything to it's advantage, so if you leave the door open (metaphorically speaking), then the government is going to exploit that open doorway whether you and I like it or not. Most citizen's lock and secure their weapons, so I really don't think that we have an issue on our hands because of this case.

Sorry......that argument is foolish.....

Gun control....

Do what we want now, or we will get mad and take everything.

Gun Control....

Okay, now, we want this.....and if you don't give us this, this time...we will get mad and take everything....

Gun Control...

Okay, now, we also want this and you better give us this even though we said we only wanted those other things......because if you don't give us this, now.....we will get mad and take everything....


Sorry....you tell the fuckers...nope....we are going to push our side, convince people you are fascists, and you can go fuck yourselves.....

Listen you numbskull, people just like you are why the government is the way it is today, and why it takes advantage of you, because you lack the damn common sense the good Lord gave to a knat. Sorry, but that's the problem we are having today (people with no common sense anymore), and if you think that I'm not on the conservative side of all issues being a conservative myself, then you are the extremist here. I mean you actually pulled the damned race card to try and make a point. Good grief.

He did not pull the race card, what he stated is fact which leads to the point i was going to make before I read your comment below - not all gun owners have the same circumstances and not all solutions are ideal for every for every single one of them.

It goes against everything in me to alter my behavior in an attempt to mollify criminals and the recommendations made for securing firearms are generally for securing them against others in your home (children, people who shouldn't have access to weapons i.e. Adam Lanzer, etc.) they are not meant to defeat criminals from obtaining them if they are determined to do so.

What you have apparently never considered is the expense that goes into securing one's home first, weapons second, can include having to pull up roots and relocate to another city, county or state just to get to a better environment, and sometimes that involves the lose of your income. Plus the cost of all of the other security measures which I agree are great to have but all come with a cost and don't necessarily keep your home from being burglared or your weapons from being stolen. Sure you've made it more difficult for them but for some criminals they merely see that as a challenge for them to overcome and demonstrate their skills. For people with no expendable income those added measures are simply not obtainable.

https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1142&context=srhonorsprog

Gun control in the United States is based on a long history of discrimination which continues to this day. While blacks were the first targets of gun control measures, different racial and ethnic minorities have been targeted over time, and today the poor now face economic discrimination in many gun control laws. Gun control may be portrayed as a measure to reduce crime,1 but even in its earliest forms firearms regulation has been used as a means to control specific societal groups by keeping them from possessing weapons. The first selectively restrictive gun control legislation was enacted in the pre-Revolution South and primarily aimed at keeping free blacks from owning firearms and maintaining a white monopoly on power. Many different forms of gun control laws were implemented before and after the Revolution to keep firearms out of African-American hands. Even after the Civil War, Black Codes were enacted which ensured that supposedly freed blacks would not have effective means to defend themselves, and would remain an unarmed and subordinate group in society, unable to defend themselves or fight for their legal and constitutional rights.

The Racist Roots of Gun Control

The historical records show compelling evidence that racism underlies gun control laws

 

[2aguy]

Gun owners are amazingly responsible but when criminals break the law, break into homes, it isn't the fault of the home owner.......

This is why even the NRA agrees with guns having trigger locks, being kept in gun safes, and keeping the guns completely separate from the ammunition.

None of that was done.

Until you need the gun....you mean except for that...right? When the guy is in your home and you don't have 10 minutes to get to the safe, punch in the code, take out the gun, find the key to the trigger lock, unlock the lock, then go to where you keep the ammo, and, I imagine you want that in a separate safe too.........then load the gun....

The guy, or guys are in your home, likely armed.....but the 30 steps you need to deploy your weapon....I am sure they will wait till you get all the steps done...

Right?

These guns were in a locked house....they broke the law.....

If we let idiots like you set up mandatory storage rules then we will have to eventually store the keys to the gun locks at a police station or gun store and get written permission to access those keys before we can unlock the guns...

Sorry, no thanks.

They broke into a home......this is on them.

To start with, you are carrying your concealed weapon while you are away from the home, so if you return home and it's being robbed, then 1st you contact the law, and you get them on the way while you secure the perimeter. If you surprise the criminal's because you walked in on them, then hopefully you get the drop on them before they get you with your own guns left in an unsafe manor. But if you have your weapons secured, then you have the upper hand if they didn't bring the weapons with them. If you have your home secured, then you have the upper hand again, because hopefully their weaponry won't be as good as what you are carrying on your person. If they get the drop on you, then the the only hope is that the 9-11 call you might have made in the first senario (if you couldn't wait on them before going in) will have the police on the way in order to secure the location again, hopefully save you, and deal with the burglar's before they escape. The second situation is just going to be you and them if they get surprised.

I agree.....

But I will never support government mandates on storing your guns in your own home....that leads to draconian rules meant to entrap normal gun owners....not going to support it.

And I had a situation where we came home and the door was open.........we left the door open accidentally as it turned out....I didn't enter, I called the police....they searched the house...I didn't "secure the perimeter," I let them do it...that is how you do it...I also informed them that I had guns in the home........

Guns were secure, good work.

Yep....then the criminals broke in and stole them.

What you don't understand is there is no security level that will be acceptable to the anti-gun extremists.......and they want all locks and safes to be mandatory.....barring a lot of people from owning or carrying guns.......and then will come the home inspections to make sure you are following every single "i" and "t" they want you to dot and cross......

Life sentence if you steal guns.....that is how you stop this........but you want to help them make it impossible for normal people to own and carry guns......you think this is a ratinal, legitimate demand....it is not......they want mandatory locks and safes not for safety, but as an impediment to own and carry guns especially for the poor and minorities....it is also racist at its core...

I understand your fears of government, because I see it also big time these days, but if these things aren't addressed properly by we the citizen's, then the government that you fear will become a reality, because it's going to use or exploit everything to it's advantage, so if you leave the door open (metaphorically speaking), then the government is going to exploit that open doorway whether you and I like it or not. Most citizen's lock and secure their weapons, so I really don't think that we have an issue on our hands because of this case.

You don't think like they do....that's why.

They don't care about guns being stored safely........they just know it now will cost you more to own your gun, and that some people will not want to have the hassle and the expense, and the safe taking up room....so they won't bother to get a gun........also....if they can get a mandatory law, then they can create an increased penalty if you fail to comply.......if you are burgled and they take your guns despite your gun safe? You then have to prove you actually locked up your guns, and you will still face the penalties of having your guns stolen....you won't have any benefit, just more expense and more risk...

It used to be just locks on your guns......now .....as you see in this post, that isn't enough...now they want a safe......will a safe on your nightstand be enough? Or will they next want a 700 pound safe bolted to your floor even if all you have is a .22 pistol.....

You had the Titan model A safe? Well according to new government regulations you need a Titan model B and if you don't get it, you will be committing a misdemeanor and will lose your gun rights forever......

You still don't understand how they think, and how they will fight this fight....

Oh I understand how they think, and yes you are right on alot of points, but then you just go bonkers attempting to clean up someone's damned mess that they caused in hopes to keep the government at bay over it. The problem we have today, is that we're not dealing with the same citizenry that we were dealing with years ago, so we have to adjust to the threat's, and to the government who is also dealing with the same situation's even if they created alot of it.

Okay.....I have a .22 caliber revolver I use for self defense...( I don't, but let's say I do....)

Which safe should I now be required to get to own that gun...before they allow me to own and carry that gun....the 2,818 dollar model or the 4 thousand dollar model...

Please.....tell me which one........and then tell me that the 4 thousand dollar model won't be the standard they set or you will be breaking the law...

Top Gun Safe Brands, Gun Safes For Security, American Made Gun Safes: GunSafes.com

Safeguard your firearms with reliable gun safes. Explore a wide range of gun safes at Gunsafes.com and keep your guns secure and accessible.

www.gunsafes.com

Here's a deal...only about 2 thousand dollars....and I am sure it will not take up too much room in my 2 bedroom apartment...

Here's a smaller one...only 4 thousand dollars...

 

[2aguy]

Gun owners are amazingly responsible but when criminals break the law, break into homes, it isn't the fault of the home owner.......

This is why even the NRA agrees with guns having trigger locks, being kept in gun safes, and keeping the guns completely separate from the ammunition.

None of that was done.

Until you need the gun....you mean except for that...right? When the guy is in your home and you don't have 10 minutes to get to the safe, punch in the code, take out the gun, find the key to the trigger lock, unlock the lock, then go to where you keep the ammo, and, I imagine you want that in a separate safe too.........then load the gun....

The guy, or guys are in your home, likely armed.....but the 30 steps you need to deploy your weapon....I am sure they will wait till you get all the steps done...

Right?

These guns were in a locked house....they broke the law.....

If we let idiots like you set up mandatory storage rules then we will have to eventually store the keys to the gun locks at a police station or gun store and get written permission to access those keys before we can unlock the guns...

Sorry, no thanks.

They broke into a home......this is on them.

To start with, you are carrying your concealed weapon while you are away from the home, so if you return home and it's being robbed, then 1st you contact the law, and you get them on the way while you secure the perimeter. If you surprise the criminal's because you walked in on them, then hopefully you get the drop on them before they get you with your own guns left in an unsafe manor. But if you have your weapons secured, then you have the upper hand if they didn't bring the weapons with them. If you have your home secured, then you have the upper hand again, because hopefully their weaponry won't be as good as what you are carrying on your person. If they get the drop on you, then the the only hope is that the 9-11 call you might have made in the first senario (if you couldn't wait on them before going in) will have the police on the way in order to secure the location again, hopefully save you, and deal with the burglar's before they escape. The second situation is just going to be you and them if they get surprised.

I agree.....

But I will never support government mandates on storing your guns in your own home....that leads to draconian rules meant to entrap normal gun owners....not going to support it.

And I had a situation where we came home and the door was open.........we left the door open accidentally as it turned out....I didn't enter, I called the police....they searched the house...I didn't "secure the perimeter," I let them do it...that is how you do it...I also informed them that I had guns in the home........

Guns were secure, good work.

Yep....then the criminals broke in and stole them.

What you don't understand is there is no security level that will be acceptable to the anti-gun extremists.......and they want all locks and safes to be mandatory.....barring a lot of people from owning or carrying guns.......and then will come the home inspections to make sure you are following every single "i" and "t" they want you to dot and cross......

Life sentence if you steal guns.....that is how you stop this........but you want to help them make it impossible for normal people to own and carry guns......you think this is a ratinal, legitimate demand....it is not......they want mandatory locks and safes not for safety, but as an impediment to own and carry guns especially for the poor and minorities....it is also racist at its core...

I understand your fears of government, because I see it also big time these days, but if these things aren't addressed properly by we the citizen's, then the government that you fear will become a reality, because it's going to use or exploit everything to it's advantage, so if you leave the door open (metaphorically speaking), then the government is going to exploit that open doorway whether you and I like it or not. Most citizen's lock and secure their weapons, so I really don't think that we have an issue on our hands because of this case.

Sorry......that argument is foolish.....

Gun control....

Do what we want now, or we will get mad and take everything.

Gun Control....

Okay, now, we want this.....and if you don't give us this, this time...we will get mad and take everything....

Gun Control...

Okay, now, we also want this and you better give us this even though we said we only wanted those other things......because if you don't give us this, now.....we will get mad and take everything....


Sorry....you tell the fuckers...nope....we are going to push our side, convince people you are fascists, and you can go fuck yourselves.....

Listen you numbskull, people just like you are why the government is the way it is today, and why it takes advantage of you, because you lack the damn common sense the good Lord gave to a knat. Sorry, but that's the problem we are having today (people with no common sense anymore), and if you think that I'm not on the conservative side of all issues being a conservative myself, then you are the extremist here. I mean you actually pulled the damned race card to try and make a point. Good grief.

Gun control is racist.......has been since the days democrats banned slaves and free blacks and indians from owning guns...

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Gun owners are amazingly responsible but when criminals break the law, break into homes, it isn't the fault of the home owner.......

This is why even the NRA agrees with guns having trigger locks, being kept in gun safes, and keeping the guns completely separate from the ammunition.

None of that was done.

Until you need the gun....you mean except for that...right? When the guy is in your home and you don't have 10 minutes to get to the safe, punch in the code, take out the gun, find the key to the trigger lock, unlock the lock, then go to where you keep the ammo, and, I imagine you want that in a separate safe too.........then load the gun....

The guy, or guys are in your home, likely armed.....but the 30 steps you need to deploy your weapon....I am sure they will wait till you get all the steps done...

Right?

These guns were in a locked house....they broke the law.....

If we let idiots like you set up mandatory storage rules then we will have to eventually store the keys to the gun locks at a police station or gun store and get written permission to access those keys before we can unlock the guns...

Sorry, no thanks.

They broke into a home......this is on them.

To start with, you are carrying your concealed weapon while you are away from the home, so if you return home and it's being robbed, then 1st you contact the law, and you get them on the way while you secure the perimeter. If you surprise the criminal's because you walked in on them, then hopefully you get the drop on them before they get you with your own guns left in an unsafe manor. But if you have your weapons secured, then you have the upper hand if they didn't bring the weapons with them. If you have your home secured, then you have the upper hand again, because hopefully their weaponry won't be as good as what you are carrying on your person. If they get the drop on you, then the the only hope is that the 9-11 call you might have made in the first senario (if you couldn't wait on them before going in) will have the police on the way in order to secure the location again, hopefully save you, and deal with the burglar's before they escape. The second situation is just going to be you and them if they get surprised.

I agree.....

But I will never support government mandates on storing your guns in your own home....that leads to draconian rules meant to entrap normal gun owners....not going to support it.

And I had a situation where we came home and the door was open.........we left the door open accidentally as it turned out....I didn't enter, I called the police....they searched the house...I didn't "secure the perimeter," I let them do it...that is how you do it...I also informed them that I had guns in the home........

Guns were secure, good work.

Yep....then the criminals broke in and stole them.

What you don't understand is there is no security level that will be acceptable to the anti-gun extremists.......and they want all locks and safes to be mandatory.....barring a lot of people from owning or carrying guns.......and then will come the home inspections to make sure you are following every single "i" and "t" they want you to dot and cross......

Life sentence if you steal guns.....that is how you stop this........but you want to help them make it impossible for normal people to own and carry guns......you think this is a ratinal, legitimate demand....it is not......they want mandatory locks and safes not for safety, but as an impediment to own and carry guns especially for the poor and minorities....it is also racist at its core...

I understand your fears of government, because I see it also big time these days, but if these things aren't addressed properly by we the citizen's, then the government that you fear will become a reality, because it's going to use or exploit everything to it's advantage, so if you leave the door open (metaphorically speaking), then the government is going to exploit that open doorway whether you and I like it or not. Most citizen's lock and secure their weapons, so I really don't think that we have an issue on our hands because of this case.

Sorry......that argument is foolish.....

Gun control....

Do what we want now, or we will get mad and take everything.

Gun Control....

Okay, now, we want this.....and if you don't give us this, this time...we will get mad and take everything....

Gun Control...

Okay, now, we also want this and you better give us this even though we said we only wanted those other things......because if you don't give us this, now.....we will get mad and take everything....


Sorry....you tell the fuckers...nope....we are going to push our side, convince people you are fascists, and you can go fuck yourselves.....

Listen you numbskull, people just like you are why the government is the way it is today, and why it takes advantage of you, because you lack the damn common sense the good Lord gave to a knat. Sorry, but that's the problem we are having today (people with no common sense anymore), and if you think that I'm not on the conservative side of all issues being a conservative myself, then you are the extremist here. I mean you actually pulled the damned race card to try and make a point. Good grief.

Didn't say you weren't a conservative.....I am saying you don't understand the left....and why they demand what they demand....and why giving them a bite at the time just allows them to digest the entire apple......sorry......you don't win by losing a baby step at a time...

I am a conservative, vote republican, and work for a living. I know what you are saying, but giving the government the keys to the car when we know it can't drive is just ludicrous. I ain't giving them those key's, so my guns are in the safe except for the one I carry.

It's actually sad we had to even have to deal with this in front of the government, because it never sleeps trying to destroy conservatism in this country.

I'm curious, what does stating "I work for a living" convey?

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

If you are old enough to do the crime.........

You're old enough to take the consequences, however they come.

Once you have made the personal decision to pick up a weapon of any kind to do harm to another person, regardless of age, you are a criminal.

 

[Blues Man]

You do realize that if you lock your doors and windows when you leave that the gun in your home is secured don't you

You do realize that locked doors and windows can easily be broken into, and that an unsecured gun in your home is in fact not secured.

Apparently for some this is difficult to understand.

So what?

A gun owner is not responsible for the criminal acts of others.

And if you lock your doors and windows you are securing your home and everything in it.

 

[Blues Man]

They were inside a locked home so they were secured.

Clearly they weren’t secured.

A properly secured firearm is as described in my post.

So you blame the victim of a crime for the acts of the criminal.

Yeah that makes sense

 

[dannyboys]

This is America. Weapons everywhere.

Me thinks I smell a fishy story!

• Two children break out of juvenille hall to break into a home that just happens to have guns laying out all over the place loaded and ready to go? When are the police filing charges against the home-owner for not securing his weapons?
• 14 year old girl comes our flashing a shotgun? I want to see a 14 y.o. girl SHOOT a 12 ga. 00 shotgun!

You spent a year calling the police criminals, defunding them, denouncing them, criminalizing them, rioting against them, and now that some kids act on that feedback they've gotten from the radical left and shoot at them---- YOU BLAME THE GUNS?

The 14 yr old negro girl 'child' weighed about 170 lbs and was almost six feet tall.

 

[beagle9]

Until you need the gun

Wrong.

I keep a handgun unsecured when I’m home.

When I leave home it’s either secured or comes with me.

This isn’t difficult to understand – one can be both a responsible gunowner and maintain personal security.

You do realize that if you lock your doors and windows when you leave that the gun in your home is secured don't you

A safe designed to secure weapons, has a different level of security built into it, that's because it's a weapon that it's attempting to secure, otherwise as opposed to the Windows and doors on your home etc. The gun safe is designed with far greater thought going into it than the lock on your Windows or door's had designed into them. It's simple really, otherwise you might hide a $10.00 dollar bill from your brother in a cookie jar, but if it's a thousand dollar bill you would up the level by putting in a "safe" or rather find a super safer place if you didn't want him to steal it from you.

And poor people who want to own a gun......will be told that can't own them if they can't buy gun locks and a safe as well....right?

Again, first, they just wanted gun locks...it only made sense.....now they are pushing for gun safes.......and they will keep demanding more and more and better and better safes and increasing the penalties if you don't have one....it isn't about keeping your guns safe, it is about keeping people from making the effort to own and carry guns......

Until you realize that, you will be another useful you know what for them...

We all know what they do, and how they do it, so are you suggesting that everyone just keep playing right into their evil hands by not protecting ones rights responsibly ? We should be appalled at people being idiot's, and therefore playing right into Satan's hand like we keep seeing these days.

 

[beagle9]

They were inside a locked home so they were secured.

Clearly they weren’t secured.

A properly secured firearm is as described in my post.

So you blame the victim of a crime for the acts of the criminal.

Yeah that makes sense

Different levels of blame in a situation right bluesman ?? As with any incident, there has to be a complete analysis of it, and every role should be critiqued in order to come up with hopeful solutions that help to close all the gap's that were left open.

 

[beagle9]

Gun owners are amazingly responsible but when criminals break the law, break into homes, it isn't the fault of the home owner.......

This is why even the NRA agrees with guns having trigger locks, being kept in gun safes, and keeping the guns completely separate from the ammunition.

None of that was done.

Until you need the gun....you mean except for that...right? When the guy is in your home and you don't have 10 minutes to get to the safe, punch in the code, take out the gun, find the key to the trigger lock, unlock the lock, then go to where you keep the ammo, and, I imagine you want that in a separate safe too.........then load the gun....

The guy, or guys are in your home, likely armed.....but the 30 steps you need to deploy your weapon....I am sure they will wait till you get all the steps done...

Right?

These guns were in a locked house....they broke the law.....

If we let idiots like you set up mandatory storage rules then we will have to eventually store the keys to the gun locks at a police station or gun store and get written permission to access those keys before we can unlock the guns...

Sorry, no thanks.

They broke into a home......this is on them.

To start with, you are carrying your concealed weapon while you are away from the home, so if you return home and it's being robbed, then 1st you contact the law, and you get them on the way while you secure the perimeter. If you surprise the criminal's because you walked in on them, then hopefully you get the drop on them before they get you with your own guns left in an unsafe manor. But if you have your weapons secured, then you have the upper hand if they didn't bring the weapons with them. If you have your home secured, then you have the upper hand again, because hopefully their weaponry won't be as good as what you are carrying on your person. If they get the drop on you, then the the only hope is that the 9-11 call you might have made in the first senario (if you couldn't wait on them before going in) will have the police on the way in order to secure the location again, hopefully save you, and deal with the burglar's before they escape. The second situation is just going to be you and them if they get surprised.

I agree.....

But I will never support government mandates on storing your guns in your own home....that leads to draconian rules meant to entrap normal gun owners....not going to support it.

And I had a situation where we came home and the door was open.........we left the door open accidentally as it turned out....I didn't enter, I called the police....they searched the house...I didn't "secure the perimeter," I let them do it...that is how you do it...I also informed them that I had guns in the home........

Guns were secure, good work.

Yep....then the criminals broke in and stole them.

What you don't understand is there is no security level that will be acceptable to the anti-gun extremists.......and they want all locks and safes to be mandatory.....barring a lot of people from owning or carrying guns.......and then will come the home inspections to make sure you are following every single "i" and "t" they want you to dot and cross......

Life sentence if you steal guns.....that is how you stop this........but you want to help them make it impossible for normal people to own and carry guns......you think this is a ratinal, legitimate demand....it is not......they want mandatory locks and safes not for safety, but as an impediment to own and carry guns especially for the poor and minorities....it is also racist at its core...

I understand your fears of government, because I see it also big time these days, but if these things aren't addressed properly by we the citizen's, then the government that you fear will become a reality, because it's going to use or exploit everything to it's advantage, so if you leave the door open (metaphorically speaking), then the government is going to exploit that open doorway whether you and I like it or not. Most citizen's lock and secure their weapons, so I really don't think that we have an issue on our hands because of this case.

Sorry......that argument is foolish.....

Gun control....

Do what we want now, or we will get mad and take everything.

Gun Control....

Okay, now, we want this.....and if you don't give us this, this time...we will get mad and take everything....

Gun Control...

Okay, now, we also want this and you better give us this even though we said we only wanted those other things......because if you don't give us this, now.....we will get mad and take everything....


Sorry....you tell the fuckers...nope....we are going to push our side, convince people you are fascists, and you can go fuck yourselves.....

Listen you numbskull, people just like you are why the government is the way it is today, and why it takes advantage of you, because you lack the damn common sense the good Lord gave to a knat. Sorry, but that's the problem we are having today (people with no common sense anymore), and if you think that I'm not on the conservative side of all issues being a conservative myself, then you are the extremist here. I mean you actually pulled the damned race card to try and make a point. Good grief.

Gun control is racist.......has been since the days democrats banned slaves and free blacks and indians from owning guns...

Ok, I'll buy into your context, but seemed your statement in the other post may have been broader than that. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[beagle9]

Gun owners are amazingly responsible but when criminals break the law, break into homes, it isn't the fault of the home owner.......

This is why even the NRA agrees with guns having trigger locks, being kept in gun safes, and keeping the guns completely separate from the ammunition.

None of that was done.

Until you need the gun....you mean except for that...right? When the guy is in your home and you don't have 10 minutes to get to the safe, punch in the code, take out the gun, find the key to the trigger lock, unlock the lock, then go to where you keep the ammo, and, I imagine you want that in a separate safe too.........then load the gun....

The guy, or guys are in your home, likely armed.....but the 30 steps you need to deploy your weapon....I am sure they will wait till you get all the steps done...

Right?

These guns were in a locked house....they broke the law.....

If we let idiots like you set up mandatory storage rules then we will have to eventually store the keys to the gun locks at a police station or gun store and get written permission to access those keys before we can unlock the guns...

Sorry, no thanks.

They broke into a home......this is on them.

To start with, you are carrying your concealed weapon while you are away from the home, so if you return home and it's being robbed, then 1st you contact the law, and you get them on the way while you secure the perimeter. If you surprise the criminal's because you walked in on them, then hopefully you get the drop on them before they get you with your own guns left in an unsafe manor. But if you have your weapons secured, then you have the upper hand if they didn't bring the weapons with them. If you have your home secured, then you have the upper hand again, because hopefully their weaponry won't be as good as what you are carrying on your person. If they get the drop on you, then the the only hope is that the 9-11 call you might have made in the first senario (if you couldn't wait on them before going in) will have the police on the way in order to secure the location again, hopefully save you, and deal with the burglar's before they escape. The second situation is just going to be you and them if they get surprised.

I agree.....

But I will never support government mandates on storing your guns in your own home....that leads to draconian rules meant to entrap normal gun owners....not going to support it.

And I had a situation where we came home and the door was open.........we left the door open accidentally as it turned out....I didn't enter, I called the police....they searched the house...I didn't "secure the perimeter," I let them do it...that is how you do it...I also informed them that I had guns in the home........

Guns were secure, good work.

Yep....then the criminals broke in and stole them.

What you don't understand is there is no security level that will be acceptable to the anti-gun extremists.......and they want all locks and safes to be mandatory.....barring a lot of people from owning or carrying guns.......and then will come the home inspections to make sure you are following every single "i" and "t" they want you to dot and cross......

Life sentence if you steal guns.....that is how you stop this........but you want to help them make it impossible for normal people to own and carry guns......you think this is a ratinal, legitimate demand....it is not......they want mandatory locks and safes not for safety, but as an impediment to own and carry guns especially for the poor and minorities....it is also racist at its core...

I understand your fears of government, because I see it also big time these days, but if these things aren't addressed properly by we the citizen's, then the government that you fear will become a reality, because it's going to use or exploit everything to it's advantage, so if you leave the door open (metaphorically speaking), then the government is going to exploit that open doorway whether you and I like it or not. Most citizen's lock and secure their weapons, so I really don't think that we have an issue on our hands because of this case.

Sorry......that argument is foolish.....

Gun control....

Do what we want now, or we will get mad and take everything.

Gun Control....

Okay, now, we want this.....and if you don't give us this, this time...we will get mad and take everything....

Gun Control...

Okay, now, we also want this and you better give us this even though we said we only wanted those other things......because if you don't give us this, now.....we will get mad and take everything....


Sorry....you tell the fuckers...nope....we are going to push our side, convince people you are fascists, and you can go fuck yourselves.....

Listen you numbskull, people just like you are why the government is the way it is today, and why it takes advantage of you, because you lack the damn common sense the good Lord gave to a knat. Sorry, but that's the problem we are having today (people with no common sense anymore), and if you think that I'm not on the conservative side of all issues being a conservative myself, then you are the extremist here. I mean you actually pulled the damned race card to try and make a point. Good grief.

Didn't say you weren't a conservative.....I am saying you don't understand the left....and why they demand what they demand....and why giving them a bite at the time just allows them to digest the entire apple......sorry......you don't win by losing a baby step at a time...

I am a conservative, vote republican, and work for a living. I know what you are saying, but giving the government the keys to the car when we know it can't drive is just ludicrous. I ain't giving them those key's, so my guns are in the safe except for the one I carry.

It's actually sad we had to even have to deal with this in front of the government, because it never sleeps trying to destroy conservatism in this country.

I'm curious, what does stating "I work for a living" convey?

None of your business.

 

[Blues Man]

They were inside a locked home so they were secured.

Clearly they weren’t secured.

A properly secured firearm is as described in my post.

So you blame the victim of a crime for the acts of the criminal.

Yeah that makes sense

Different levels of blame in a situation right bluesman ?? As with any incident, there has to be a complete analysis of it, and every role should be critiqued in order to come up with hopeful solutions that help to close all the gap's that were left open.

The blame starts with the idiots running the group home that didn't properly supervise these delinquents and it ends with the delinquents themselves. The home owner who had his house broken into is in no way responsible for anything that happened

 

[beagle9]

Gun owners are amazingly responsible but when criminals break the law, break into homes, it isn't the fault of the home owner.......

This is why even the NRA agrees with guns having trigger locks, being kept in gun safes, and keeping the guns completely separate from the ammunition.

None of that was done.

Until you need the gun....you mean except for that...right? When the guy is in your home and you don't have 10 minutes to get to the safe, punch in the code, take out the gun, find the key to the trigger lock, unlock the lock, then go to where you keep the ammo, and, I imagine you want that in a separate safe too.........then load the gun....

The guy, or guys are in your home, likely armed.....but the 30 steps you need to deploy your weapon....I am sure they will wait till you get all the steps done...

Right?

These guns were in a locked house....they broke the law.....

If we let idiots like you set up mandatory storage rules then we will have to eventually store the keys to the gun locks at a police station or gun store and get written permission to access those keys before we can unlock the guns...

Sorry, no thanks.

They broke into a home......this is on them.

To start with, you are carrying your concealed weapon while you are away from the home, so if you return home and it's being robbed, then 1st you contact the law, and you get them on the way while you secure the perimeter. If you surprise the criminal's because you walked in on them, then hopefully you get the drop on them before they get you with your own guns left in an unsafe manor. But if you have your weapons secured, then you have the upper hand if they didn't bring the weapons with them. If you have your home secured, then you have the upper hand again, because hopefully their weaponry won't be as good as what you are carrying on your person. If they get the drop on you, then the the only hope is that the 9-11 call you might have made in the first senario (if you couldn't wait on them before going in) will have the police on the way in order to secure the location again, hopefully save you, and deal with the burglar's before they escape. The second situation is just going to be you and them if they get surprised.

I agree.....

But I will never support government mandates on storing your guns in your own home....that leads to draconian rules meant to entrap normal gun owners....not going to support it.

And I had a situation where we came home and the door was open.........we left the door open accidentally as it turned out....I didn't enter, I called the police....they searched the house...I didn't "secure the perimeter," I let them do it...that is how you do it...I also informed them that I had guns in the home........

Guns were secure, good work.

Yep....then the criminals broke in and stole them.

What you don't understand is there is no security level that will be acceptable to the anti-gun extremists.......and they want all locks and safes to be mandatory.....barring a lot of people from owning or carrying guns.......and then will come the home inspections to make sure you are following every single "i" and "t" they want you to dot and cross......

Life sentence if you steal guns.....that is how you stop this........but you want to help them make it impossible for normal people to own and carry guns......you think this is a ratinal, legitimate demand....it is not......they want mandatory locks and safes not for safety, but as an impediment to own and carry guns especially for the poor and minorities....it is also racist at its core...

I understand your fears of government, because I see it also big time these days, but if these things aren't addressed properly by we the citizen's, then the government that you fear will become a reality, because it's going to use or exploit everything to it's advantage, so if you leave the door open (metaphorically speaking), then the government is going to exploit that open doorway whether you and I like it or not. Most citizen's lock and secure their weapons, so I really don't think that we have an issue on our hands because of this case.

You don't think like they do....that's why.

They don't care about guns being stored safely........they just know it now will cost you more to own your gun, and that some people will not want to have the hassle and the expense, and the safe taking up room....so they won't bother to get a gun........also....if they can get a mandatory law, then they can create an increased penalty if you fail to comply.......if you are burgled and they take your guns despite your gun safe? You then have to prove you actually locked up your guns, and you will still face the penalties of having your guns stolen....you won't have any benefit, just more expense and more risk...

It used to be just locks on your guns......now .....as you see in this post, that isn't enough...now they want a safe......will a safe on your nightstand be enough? Or will they next want a 700 pound safe bolted to your floor even if all you have is a .22 pistol.....

You had the Titan model A safe? Well according to new government regulations you need a Titan model B and if you don't get it, you will be committing a misdemeanor and will lose your gun rights forever......

You still don't understand how they think, and how they will fight this fight....

Oh I understand how they think, and yes you are right on alot of points, but then you just go bonkers attempting to clean up someone's damned mess that they caused in hopes to keep the government at bay over it. The problem we have today, is that we're not dealing with the same citizenry that we were dealing with years ago, so we have to adjust to the threat's, and to the government who is also dealing with the same situation's even if they created alot of it.

Okay.....I have a .22 caliber revolver I use for self defense...( I don't, but let's say I do....)

Which safe should I now be required to get to own that gun...before they allow me to own and carry that gun....the 2,818 dollar model or the 4 thousand dollar model...

Please.....tell me which one........and then tell me that the 4 thousand dollar model won't be the standard they set or you will be breaking the law...

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Here's a deal...only about 2 thousand dollars....and I am sure it will not take up too much room in my 2 bedroom apartment...

View attachment 497825

Here's a smaller one...only 4 thousand dollars...

View attachment 497826

Surely you jest, because your not including trigger lock's or supporting future technology that secures weapons through those processes. So you attempt to create this horse verses buggy type scenario, where as you present this ohhhh what do we do, try and fit the second huge old timey safe illustrated, into ones new millennial tiny house ???

The trigger lock technology should be good enough for that 22.cal, wherefore if it is unfortunately stolen, and they try to remove it, then it would destroy the weapons trigger system in doing so. But you know as well as I, that a determined thief with nothing but time on their hands, well they can do some very amazing things. Nothing truly is safe or truly can be locked down completely, but in each case presented we can study, look at the faults, critique it, and hopefully come up with future solutions that help us to do better.

 

[beagle9]

They were inside a locked home so they were secured.

Clearly they weren’t secured.

A properly secured firearm is as described in my post.

So you blame the victim of a crime for the acts of the criminal.

Yeah that makes sense

Different levels of blame in a situation right bluesman ?? As with any incident, there has to be a complete analysis of it, and every role should be critiqued in order to come up with hopeful solutions that help to close all the gap's that were left open.

The blame stars with the idiots running the group home that didn't properly supervise these delinquents and it ends with the delinquents themselves. The home owner who had his house broken into is in no way responsible for anything that happened

I agree, but isn't it ok to look at how the juveniles got their hands on those lethal weapons, and then had a shoot out with law enforcement ??? What if an officer would have been killed in the exchange, would that even matter ??

 

[Blues Man]

They were inside a locked home so they were secured.

Clearly they weren’t secured.

A properly secured firearm is as described in my post.

So you blame the victim of a crime for the acts of the criminal.

Yeah that makes sense

Different levels of blame in a situation right bluesman ?? As with any incident, there has to be a complete analysis of it, and every role should be critiqued in order to come up with hopeful solutions that help to close all the gap's that were left open.

The blame stars with the idiots running the group home that didn't properly supervise these delinquents and it ends with the delinquents themselves. The home owner who had his house broken into is in no way responsible for anything that happened

I agree, but isn't it ok to look at how the juveniles got their hands on those lethal weapons, and then had a shoot out with law enforcement ??? What if an officer would have been killed in the exchange, would that even matter ??

We know how they got them.

The broke into a person's home.

The homeowner was a victim of a crime and not responsible in any way.

 

[beagle9]

They were inside a locked home so they were secured.

Clearly they weren’t secured.

A properly secured firearm is as described in my post.

So you blame the victim of a crime for the acts of the criminal.

Yeah that makes sense

Different levels of blame in a situation right bluesman ?? As with any incident, there has to be a complete analysis of it, and every role should be critiqued in order to come up with hopeful solutions that help to close all the gap's that were left open.

The blame stars with the idiots running the group home that didn't properly supervise these delinquents and it ends with the delinquents themselves. The home owner who had his house broken into is in no way responsible for anything that happened

I agree, but isn't it ok to look at how the juveniles got their hands on those lethal weapons, and then had a shoot out with law enforcement ??? What if an officer would have been killed in the exchange, would that even matter ??

We know how they got them.

The broke into a person's home.

The homeowner was a victim of a crime and not responsible in any way.

I agree with that, so you suggest that the law wouldn't be the slight bit interested as to how the gun's were obtained by them while in the home broken into, and how it almost got them killed once the weapons were in the hands of these punk's ?? Simple break in is one thing, but once weapons are obtained in the break in, then we got a whole other ballgame at play. I guess it's always been this way, but as our society gets worse and worse because we gave it up to Democrat's at the ballot box, then we have to adjust to that problem. Not adjusting cost us the country, and when I say adjust I don't mean cave in, but rather it's the opposite, wherefore we should have been smart and unapologetic like our man Trump, instead of close minded and weak like all those in the party who couldn't see the writing if it was plastered on their forehead's. Now we suffer because of it all.

 

[jknowgood]

 

[beagle9]

View attachment 497923

Exactly, so don't just give them a loaded gun, and then say go play these days right ? I have my guns secure, so I guess I'm not understanding, because I'm not rich, but I saw it as a responsibility in owning weapons.