Lets just go naked

[RetiredGySgt]

If banning offensive clothing is NOT a power of Government then I must assume a right to show ones ass off means one has a right to go naked anywhere they chose...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071203/ap_on_re_us/saggy_pants_bans

 

[Shogun]

hehehe...

I knew this would never happen. It's flash in the pan fashion, dude. Ask those in the 80s about tightrolling their jeans and wearing mullets. it will pass and there will be something brand new that the youngsters are doing to get pissed off about.

 

[maineman]

I find New York Yankees T-shirts offensive. I would imagine that the Boston City Council would be nearly unanimous in sharing that belief. Would you support Boston banning THEM?

 

[doniston]

If banning offensive clothing is NOT a power of Government then I must assume a right to show ones ass off means one has a right to go naked anywhere they chose...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071203/ap_on_re_us/saggy_pants_bans

It SHOULD mean that, unfortunately it doesn't.

 

[Larkinn]

If banning offensive clothing is NOT a power of Government then I must assume a right to show ones ass off means one has a right to go naked anywhere they chose...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071203/ap_on_re_us/saggy_pants_bans

What happened to small government conservatism? So you want to allow people to do things that are bad for them, but not allow people to do things which offend others? At least the PC police generally use society and not the government to enforce their views, you are worse than them.

 

[JeffWartman]

If banning offensive clothing is NOT a power of Government then I must assume a right to show ones ass off means one has a right to go naked anywhere they chose...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071203/ap_on_re_us/saggy_pants_bans

Another example of the nanny state Republicans at work...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So, let me see if I have the liberal argument down pat... shall we?

The Government is free to seize my property and give it away to some Corporation to raise the tax base, they can tell me what my kids can eat, they can take my money to give to deadbeats that have generations of deadbeats, they can create universal health care where they will ration and deny care on THEIR whim, they can tell me what marriage means, they can make certain races more equal, they can amnesty 20 million illegal aliens, they are free to do these things that Liberals love, BUT GODDAMN IT they better not tell anyone to not be naked in public.

Have I got it about right?

 

[midcan5]

Fashion and obscenity are two different things, seeing old men naked would traumatize people forever. What some designer needs to do, ditto Madonna underwear style, is create fashionable underwear pants tops. But don't worry this too shall pass.

 

[Larkinn]

So, let me see if I have the liberal argument down pat... shall we?

The Government is free to seize my property and give it away to some Corporation to raise the tax base, they can tell me what my kids can eat, they can take my money to give to deadbeats that have generations of deadbeats, they can create universal health care where they will ration and deny care on THEIR whim, they can tell me what marriage means, they can make certain races more equal, they can amnesty 20 million illegal aliens, they are free to do these things that Liberals love, BUT GODDAMN IT they better not tell anyone to not be naked in public.

Have I got it about right?

Unsurprisingly, no. What else is new.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Unsurprisingly, no. What else is new.

So your argument is that what I listed is not in fact what liberals have done or want done?

 

[maineman]

So your argument is that what I listed is not in fact what liberals have done or want done?

and what is so different about what you want? You are suggesting that people be told what they can and cannot wear. Is Big Brother OK with you as long as he is directing people to do the things against their will that YOU want them to?

 

[Shogun]

hehehe...


yea.. I think you are missing the target on this one, rgs. taxes really have nothing to do with this. limiting snack foods in public school really has nothing to do with this. welfare really has nothing to do with this. health care really has nothing to do with this. marriage really has nothing to do with this. affirmative action really has nothing to do with this. Illegal immigration really has nothing to do with this.

Your shotgun blast of partisan vitriol does nothing but convey your blind partisanship.


Can you tell me how saggy pants are any more insidious than, say, long hair during the british invasion?

 

[Abelian Sea]

Aren't there already laws against public nudity?

What are the reasons, beyond taste, for banning this particular fashion?

There does seem to be a link to criminality, as mentioned in the article:

Saggy pants fashion is believed to have started in prisons, where inmates are issued ill-fitting jumpsuits but no belts to prevent hangings and beatings. The look was popularized in gangster rap videos.

This means that people who are aware of the fashion's origins and adopt it anyway are indeed expressing some sort of anti-authority sentiment. That strikes me as a pretty thin reason to outlaw it though; it's a far cry from explicit sedition and I think in general people who wear their pants that way are doing so as part of a fad rather than as a signal of some sort of revolutionary conspiracy.

The article also mentions,

... gang members often use saggy pants to conceal weapons and drugs.

but this, too, seems to me a poor reason for banning them; after all, there are still baggy jackets, backpacks, baggy-but-not-saggy pants, and many other methods of concealment - which are in fact more convenient, since saggy pants can hinder a speedy retreat.

Then there's the "what's good for them" reasoning:

"I look at the future of a person and their ability to get a decent job," 72-year-old alderman James Brooks said. "It's going to be pretty difficult if you're not wearing your belt."

I think this is butting in a bit too far, though. It's also good for one's job prospects to shower every morning and habitually use good English, but I don't think ordinances requiring that would be appropriate.

I think the strongest reasoning for such a ban is the "public decorum" line of thought,

Pine Lawn Mayor Sylvester Caldwell has said he began seriously contemplating the ban last summer, when developers discussed how the impoverished town could improve its image and boost its redevelopment potential.

He said developers specifically mentioned the propensity of Pine Lawn's youths to let their pants ride low.

that the town has a material interest in disuading fashions that are part of a trend that hinders the towns development. Still this seems pretty attenuated.


I think that if this issue is to be addressed, it should be done through existing anti-obscenity laws. Perhaps those laws could be strengthened a bit, or perhaps they just need to be enforced more - and if showing some underwear can't reasonably be prohibited under such laws, I don't think it should be prohibited at all.

Targeting a specific fashion is not particularly wise. It creates the (perhaps accurate) impression that a not-inherently-criminal social group is being targeted for harassment, it invites legal challenges (which may well succeed), it adds to the glamour of the fashion, and it doesn't solve any social ills of any depth.

From what I've read, the perspective from law enforcement is that they don't think such a ban will make any difference in criminal behavior, and several times I've heard it pointed out that saggy pants are a benefit for law enforcement since they have a habit of tripping up fleeing suspects.

 

[mattskramer]

This reminds me of what I saw years ago at South Padre island. I was probably around 13 years old. My parents and I were heading to our car - leaving the island - when a couple of women were getting out of a car and started walking toward the beach. They were wearing thongs but they looked like nothing more than fishing line holding a 3-inch by 3-inch by 3-inch triangular piece of cloth to the front of their crotches. Their tops were not much bigger: 2 3-inch diameter circles held in place by similar material no thicker than fishing line. It seemed as though I could not stop myself from staring that their torsos until I looked up to see them staring at me. I blushed, turned away, and ran to catch up with my parents.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And you people are missing the entire point. It is not about baggy pants. It is about wearing ANY pants in a fashion that purposefully shows off your ASS. Indecency should still exist even for you liberal tree huggers.

 

[mattskramer]

And you people are missing the entire point. It is not about baggy pants. It is about wearing ANY pants in a fashion that purposefully shows off your ASS. Indecency should still exist even for you liberal tree huggers.

Perhaps But do you think that nude beaches should be outlawed?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Perhaps But do you think that nude beaches should be outlawed?

If the beach is marked and properly set up, NO, and that has nothing to do with banning public nudity in places people do NOT want to see it.

Dp you think a public nude beach should be set up across the street from an elementary school? With no fences and no way to block view from school to beacg?

 

[mattskramer]

If the beach is marked and properly set up, NO, and that has nothing to do with banning public nudity in places people do NOT want to see it.

Dp you think a public nude beach should be set up across the street from an elementary school? With no fences and no way to block view from school to beacg?

No. I think that we are in agreement here.

 

[maineman]

And you people are missing the entire point. It is not about baggy pants. It is about wearing ANY pants in a fashion that purposefully shows off your ASS. Indecency should still exist even for you liberal tree huggers.

there was a time when women showing any leg at all was indecent. Plumbers routinely show the crack of their ass to their customers all the time. Times change. standards change. deal with it.

 

[Abelian Sea]

It is not about baggy pants. It is about wearing ANY pants in a fashion that purposefully shows off your ASS.

Isn't that already illegal?

If it isn't already illegal, and is posing a problem, then existing laws about public nudity should be expanded to include it.

I don't think it's a good move to make a seperate, specific ordinace. It makes it look like it very much is about baggy pants and a particular fashion.