Let's Drop the Partisan Knee-Jerk Reactions and Look at the Ukraine Negotiations Realistically and Fairly

[rightwinger]

But if Trump sells out Ukraine, he will deserve all the scorn he gets. He won't be able to shovel that off on anyone else.

He will still blame Biden and Obama

 

[Correll]

You seem to suffer from TDS and/or RDS.


Now that is just ridiculous. Some of the most ardent backers of military support for Ukraine have been Republican members of Congress.

It is too early, and we have too little information, to reach the extreme conclusion that Trump is "siding with the invader." You do know that it was Trump who sold Ukraine Javelin missiles in 2019, right? And those missiles saved the day in the early weeks of the fighting, when Joe Biden's disgraceful response was to offer Zelensky a safe flight out of Kyiv. Perhaps you should keep that in mind.


Did you even read my OP??? I make it clear that, yes, Russia invaded Ukraine, and that Ukraine did not start the war. I also agree that Russia's invasion has been brutal and barbaric.


Umm, again, did you even bother to read my OP? You're acting like I support the Russian side of this issue, when I emphatically reject it. As I've mentioned before, we had a Ukrainian exchange student in our home for a school year in 2017-2018. She's like a daughter to us. We visited her and her family in Ukraine in 2019.

Go back and read what I said in the OP about the terms I support for a peace deal. Your TDS/RDS appears to have hampered your ability to read plain English. I can't fathom how anyone could read my OP and conclude that I side with Russia in any way, shape, or form regarding Ukraine.

The pro-war faction has been increasingly dishonest. EVERY point they make, falls apart the moment you look at it.

THey are reduced to saying the mostly obvoiusly false assertions or claims to try to create for a moment, the illusion of a justification for their position.

 

[Mashmont]

A fractured Western alliance

Nonsense. Again, look at the final result. Not the mirages in between.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Some of the most ardent backers of military support for Ukraine have been Republican members of Congress.

not now. There are zero republicans backing Ukraine to survive as a western liberal . Even when they criticize Trump, they’re still backing Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, and the rest of the Axis of Evil.

if Republican senatorstruly support Ukraine, more than if tfey can remain in office, they should switch parties to caucus with the Democrats who do support Ukraine along with 80% of American people and put a stop to this deterioration of credibility ofthe United States of America joining the Putin led axis of evil.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

The pro-war faction has been increasingly dishonest. EVERY point they make, falls apart the moment you look at it.

THey are reduced to saying the mostly obvoiusly false assertions or claims to try to create for a moment, the illusion of a justification for their position.

like what?

 

[Man With A Plan]

If his "deal" involves, "Putin gets everything he wants and I get half your mineral wealth", I'm not sure why Zelenskyy would go for that deal.

You see, here's the problem. Back in the 1950s, Repukes were able to beat Democrats over the head over "Who Lost China". (China was never really "ours" to lose.

Trump beat Biden up over the withdrawal from Afghanistan, even though it was his stupid deal with the Taliban.

But if Trump sells out Ukraine, he will deserve all the scorn he gets. He won't be able to shovel that off on anyone else.

Putin won't get everything he wants. It will be a compromise. Zelensky should go for a deal because millions of his people are being slaughtered in this war, with no end in sight militarily. Putin should go for a deal because this war has decimated his armed forces at a level that leaves Russia dangerously weak. Let Trump do what he does best.

 

[JoeB131]

Putin won't get everything he wants. It will be a compromise. Zelensky should go for a deal because millions of his people are being slaughtered in this war, with no end in sight militarily. Putin should go for a deal because this war has decimated his armed forces at a level that leaves Russia dangerously weak.

Guy, stop with that "millions of people' shit. The number of fatalities on all sides is only about 168,000, and more of them are Rooskies than Ukrainians.

Let Trump do what he does best.

Fuck things up?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Come on, guy, are you really comparing the democratically elected government of Ukraine to a terrorist band of thugs who took over PARTS of Afghanistan?

Neither one hold elections now, so the only real difference between them is how each came to power...perhaps if trump goes to war and cancels our elections, you'll have a better understanding of it.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Neither one hold elections

Following Trump's Lead, His Allies Lash Out At Ukraine's Zelenskyy And Suggest He May Need To Resign

Trump’s senior aides and allies are lashing out at Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

www.huffpost.com

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Zelensky should go for a deal

White Christian nationalist Republican speaker of the house, Mike Johnson, following orders from Putin.

Putin’s goal from the start of their invasion was to remove Zelinsky from power

Johnson is one screwed up human being.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Following Trump's Lead, His Allies Lash Out At Ukraine's Zelenskyy And Suggest He May Need To Resign

Trump’s senior aides and allies are lashing out at Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

www.huffpost.com

still selling those nothing burgers on the side of the road.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

still selling those nothing burgers on the side of the road.

ukraine’s Constitution alliws for suspension of elections during a war, and Zelensky has full support of his people


It’s too bad the Republican Party is trying to undermine him and get him killed.


if the Republicans get Zelensky to resign that’s a huge victory for Putin. That was the purpose of his invasion to take down the duly elected president of Ukraine and install someone of his own liking

Trump and Putin are colluding. There is no doubt about it anymore. They have been probably been colluding for 20 years.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Putin won't get everything he wants. It will be a compromise. Zelensky should go for a deal because millions of his people are being slaughtered in this war, with no end in sight militarily. Putin should go for a deal because this war has decimated his armed forces at a level that leaves Russia dangerously weak. Let Trump do what he does best.

That's the problem, Trump is treating this as a real estate deal (what he does best) because he dosen't understand (a) international poltics, and (b) as Commander-in-Bone-Spurs - war.

WW

 

[Frankeneinstein]

ukraine’s Constitution alliws for suspension of elections during a war, and Zelensky has full support of his people

translation: ukraines constitution allows for the suspension of democracy and democratically elected leaders and that is what makes them akin to Afghanistan.

It’s too bad the Republican Party is trying to undermine him and get him killed.


if the Republicans get Zelensky to resign that’s a huge victory for Putin. That was the purpose of his invasion to take down the duly elected president of Ukraine and install someone of his own liking

Trump and Putin are colluding. There is no doubt about it anymore. They have been probably been colluding for 20 years.

All that may very well be true but does nothing to debunk the "fact" that currently Afghanistan and ukraine are operating undemocratically...does the fact that afghanistan is operating under its own legalities make it democratic?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

ukraine’s Constitution alliws for suspension of elections during a war, and Zelensky has full support of his people

And would you support such an amendment to our constitution?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

And would you support such an amendment to our constitution?

I live in the world‘s greatest superpower. Where do you live?

The United States has never been invaded by a superpower. but if we were in Ukraine’s dure situation and foreign troops were on our soil and they were firingiddiled into apartment buikfings and hospitals and killing people indiscrimibently, my fellow citizens, yes of course I would support the suspensions of elections as long as the leader was trying to get the occupiers and the murderers out of our country.

Defending liberty is more important than elections against a dictatorship.

I see you will cower in the face of an invasion- Side with the occupiers youveill I see.

Vichy France - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No thanks

 

[whutTHEYsay]

All that may very well be true but does nothing to debunk the "fact" that currently Afghanistan and ukraine are operating undemocratically...does the fact that afghanistan is operating under its own legalities make it democratic?

Afghanistan is not being invaded by a superpower. Ukraine is being invaded by a superpower. What is your point?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

I live in the world‘s greatest superpower. Where do you live?

which has what to do with ukraine acting like afghanistan?

The United States has never been invaded by a superpower. but if we were in Ukraine’s dure situation and foreign troops were on our soil and they were firingiddiled into apartment buikfings and hospitals and killing people indiscrimibently, my fellow citizens, yes of course I would support the suspensions of elections as long as the leader was trying to get the occupiers and the murderers out of our country.

translation: "if we were in ukraines dire situation I would have no problem in acting more like afghanistan and suspending democracy"

Defending liberty is more important than elections against a dictatorship.

and "suspending democracy to save democracy" is exactly what white liberals were accused of by trump.

I see you will cower in the face of an invasion- Side with the occupiers youveill I see.

You just accused me of being afraid of you.
bottom line, ukraine is now more like afghanistan.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Afghanistan is not being invaded by a superpower. Ukraine is being invaded by a superpower. What is your point?

That ukraine is now more like afghanistan is the point [but you already knew that], all you have done is tell us why they are more like afghanistan and proving my point.

 

[Mister Iggy]