Let's Drop the Partisan Knee-Jerk Reactions and Look at the Ukraine Negotiations Realistically and Fairly

[Ringo]

So we must allow Putin to take any territory he wants or he will nuke us?

Of course not! Because like Britain in the 19th century, the US can declare any movement in the world a “threat to our interests”. Britain then occupied a quarter of the globe, and the US now has 900 bases around the world, so it is bound to be threatened no matter what happens in the world.

 

[Delldude]

As long as we support Ukraine, the war is unwinnable for Putin

At best it's a stalemate. That's about to change drastically with the Euros extending missile ranges to hit deep into Russia.

It's a waste of time as I pointed out, Z has no interest in peace..... keep the credit line coming.

Make Putin an offer he can’t refuse

Euros want the helm.....let them fix it.

 

[Contumacious]

Of course not! Because like Britain in the 19th century, the US can declare any movement in the world a “threat to our interests”. Britain then occupied a quarter of the globe, and the US now has 900 bases around the world, so it is bound to be threatened no matter what happens in the world.

Actually , the Ukranian Proxy war was substantially provoked by Boris Johnson who did not like Russia and Germany closeness.

 

[rightwinger]

It's a waste of time as I pointed out, Z has no interest in peace..... keep the credit line coming.

Zelensky would like nothing better than peace

But not a peace that involves surrendering to Putin

 

[Delldude]

Zelensky would like nothing better than peace

In a year or two.

 

[Contumacious]

Zelensky would like nothing better than peace

But not a peace that involves surrendering to Putin

PURE UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT

It is true that in March 2022 Zelenskyy asked Biden whether the war was REALLY NECESSARY ?

That confirms that Zelenskyy is merely a CIA puppet.

 

[rightwinger]

PURE UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT

It is true that in March 2022 Zelenskyy asked Biden whether the war was REALLY NECESSARY ?

That confirms that Zelenskyy is merely a CIA puppet.

Zelensky saved his county
He is a national hero

 

[rightwinger]

In a year or two.

Zelensky want peace that provides Ukraine security and doesn’t involve surrender

 

[Delldude]

Zelensky saved his county
He is a national hero

Much like Vladimir.

He polls high.....just like Z.

Funny, not many wanting to go on record against either

 

[Delldude]

Zelensky want peace that provides Ukraine security and doesn’t involve surrender

In a year or two.......bills to payoff with other people's money.

 

[Robert W]

When I was at College, Stalin was the ruler of the Soviets.

Do Russians remember him as a dictator?

Based only on his own remarks defending Stalin, I would say JoeB131 does not recall Stalin as a dictator.

 

[Contumacious]

Zelensky saved his county
He is a national hero

REMINDER

THe Socialist Demon Rats define "saved" according to meaning assigned by the Orwellian DoubleSpeak Dictionary

 

[Robert W]

I remember JFK telling them to remove the missiles or else. The threat was enough. He wasn't going to back down , Russia did.

There was much more to it than JFK telling. He also ordered the navy to blockade the Russian ships until they gave up. Russia did back down.

 

[Contumacious]

There was much more to it than JFK telling. He also ordered the navy to blockade the Russian ships until they gave up. Russia did back down.

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, President John F. Kennedy faced a major standoff with the Soviet Union after they secretly deployed nuclear missiles in Cuba. >>>>>>As part of a secret deal to resolve the crisis, the U.S. also agreed to remove Jupiter missiles from Turkey and Italy,<<<<<< though this was kept quiet to avoid appearing weak. This removal was a key part of the deal that ultimately ended the crisis.

Reason the CIA blew JFK's brains out.

 

[Delldude]

Zelensky would like nothing better than peace

Keep the cash coming.

Remember when Bidens CIA director had to go to the Ukraine and tell Z to be a little cool with the skimming?

We need an audit.

 

[Robert W]

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, President John F. Kennedy faced a major standoff with the Soviet Union after they secretly deployed nuclear missiles in Cuba. >>>>>>As part of a secret deal to resolve the crisis, the U.S. also agreed to remove Jupiter missiles from Turkey and Italy,<<<<<< though this was kept quiet to avoid appearing weak. This removal was a key part of the deal that ultimately ended the crisis.

Reason the CIA blew JFK's brains out.

That is in part why I said there was much more than what he said that got the missiles out of Cuba. The important thing was Cuba was free of missiles.

 

[Ringo]

Satanists call all politicians and citizens who don't want to go to war with the Russian Federation pro-Russian.
- You don't want war with the Russians? Aah, Putin's scum! - they spit.

To be recognized as one of their own, it is no longer enough to be neutral, you must also hate russians.

 

[Robert W]

To be recognized as one of their own, it is no longer enough to be neutral, you must also hate russians.

I don't hate Russians Ringo, I just hate Putin.

 

[Ringo]

I don't hate Russians Ringo, I just hate Putin.

And you probably even have russian friends... well, acquaintances.

 

[Coyote]

On one side, we have many conservatives accusing Zelensky of rejecting peace and being unreasonable because he wants a permanent peace deal that includes a security guarantee and because he does not want to cede any territory. On another side, we have many liberals accusing Trump of siding with Putin and selling out Ukraine because he is not agreeing to all of Zelensky's terms. Could a realistic, fair assessment be somewhere between these two extremes?

A unilateral U.S. guarantee of Ukraine's security would be virtually de facto NATO membership. It would obligate us to go to war with Russia if Russia invaded Ukraine again. Any future U.S. military intervention in Ukraine would require us to use some NATO nations as staging areas, just as we're doing now only more so. A NATO guarantee of Ukraine's security would be de facto NATO membership. Putin fiercely rejects either option, especially the latter option, as do most average Russians.

Yet, one certainly cannot blame Zelensky for wanting some kind of credible security guarantee, given Putin's track record of violating agreements.

I am not comfortable with Trump's posturing on Ukraine, especially his idiotic statement that Ukraine started the war. However, I recognize this may be a negotiating tactic to allow Putin to save some face while denying him control of most/all of Ukraine. I certainly hope that's what it is. If Trump truly believes that Ukraine started the war, he is horribly misinformed and is peddling Russian propaganda.

I also recognize that there is strong pro-Russian sentiment in three of Ukraine's eastern provinces (Kharkiv, Luhansk, and Donetsk), and that a peace deal may need to include ceding some territory in those provinces.

A few days ago, Trump told England's prime minister that Putin was willing to agree to a European peacekeeping force in Ukraine as part of a peace deal. If that's true, that could be significant, depending on the size and duration of the peacekeeping force.

I want a peace deal that gives Ukraine long-term independence and that permanently halts Russian interference in Ukraine's internal affairs. I would strongly prefer that Ukraine not be required to cede any territory. However, I could accept ceding some territory in the three eastern provinces if doing so permanently ended Russian efforts to topple Ukraine and gave Ukraine long-term independence.

I think it is too early to be forming firm, final opinions about the Ukraine negotiations. We need details about the various peace-deal proposals. Let's see where the negotiations go and what the final terms end up being.

If Trump does end up selling out Ukraine, I will never cease to criticize him for doing so. I have dear friends in Ukraine. But, if Trump ends up preserving Ukraine's long-term independence and puts an end to Russian interference in Ukraine, I will gladly congratulate him for doing so.

Well said.