Let's address the REAL issue.

[Foxfyre]

Aside and off topic for a moment: that mysterious vanishing thanks button comes right back if you refresh your page. (Took me awhile to figure that out and I think somebody suggested it.)

Back on topic:
We need to stay focused on the topic please and not allow some to drag it off topic and/or dissolve it into a food fight.

Just ignore the trolls, they'll get bored and leave.

Or, we could just mercilessly ridicule them, that's fun too.

Yep, but that results in the food fight I would like to avoid. They can accomplish their purpose by provoking that which is why they work so hard to do it.

 

[Foxfyre]

You know, there are so many illegal and prescribed legal drugs out there that have mild to severe adverse mental side effects. I wonder how seriously doctors take the possibility that a drug intended to help or heal could provoke violence in their patients?

What is our responsibility if we note bizarre or irrational behavior among our friends, family, associates? Should we be taking that more seriously? I wonder if that could have averted what happened yesterday?

 

[Mustang]

You know, there are so many illegal and prescribed legal drugs out there that have mild to severe adverse mental side effects. I wonder how seriously doctors take the possibility that a drug intended to help or heal could provoke violence in their patients?

What is our responsibility if we note bizarre or irrational behavior among our friends, family, associates? Should we be taking that more seriously? I wonder if that could have averted what happened yesterday?

When in doubt, shoot them before they shoot you.

 

[Foxfyre]

You know, there are so many illegal and prescribed legal drugs out there that have mild to severe adverse mental side effects. I wonder how seriously doctors take the possibility that a drug intended to help or heal could provoke violence in their patients?

What is our responsibility if we note bizarre or irrational behavior among our friends, family, associates? Should we be taking that more seriously? I wonder if that could have averted what happened yesterday?

When in doubt, shoot them before they shoot you.

I know you think you're being funny. You'll forgive me if I don't laugh or take you seriously? Thank you very much.

 

[eots]

This kid was a "Goth". Spent hours playing shoot em up games. Had mental health issues.

Sure am glad his mom had those guns. Wonder who she thought she should be afraid of? I guess it never entered her mind to be afraid of her deranged son.

Keep all guns from the hands of men less than 30 years of age. Concentrate on keeping those young men from having access to guns.

All the recent mass shooters were young men under 30. Why you think that is?

so we drug children into madness and they will find others ways to harm themselves or others...the rates of adverse effects like suicidal and homicidal ideation are highest in children and young adults...it says this in the drug companies own ads...very quickly and quietly in the background as the previously depressed lady runs through daisy fields smiling

 

[Mustang]

You know, there are so many illegal and prescribed legal drugs out there that have mild to severe adverse mental side effects. I wonder how seriously doctors take the possibility that a drug intended to help or heal could provoke violence in their patients?

What is our responsibility if we note bizarre or irrational behavior among our friends, family, associates? Should we be taking that more seriously? I wonder if that could have averted what happened yesterday?

When in doubt, shoot them before they shoot you.

I know you think you're being funny. You'll forgive me if I don't laugh or take you seriously? Thank you very much.

My response is pretty much in keeping with the nonsensical argument that we would all be safer if we were all walking around armed, just ready for violence to erupt so that we could respond in order to stop it.

 

[eots]

You know, there are so many illegal and prescribed legal drugs out there that have mild to severe adverse mental side effects. I wonder how seriously doctors take the possibility that a drug intended to help or heal could provoke violence in their patients?

What is our responsibility if we note bizarre or irrational behavior among our friends, family, associates? Should we be taking that more seriously? I wonder if that could have averted what happened yesterday?

Europe has banned these drugs for mild to moderate depression in adults and completely in children and youth and we are handing them out in record numbers

 

[eots]

UK - Major antidepressants banned - suicide threat

All major antidepressant drugs other than Prozac, known as SSRIs, are set to be be banned for children under 18 by the Government today, amid concerns that the drugs cause young patients to commit suicide.

UK - Major antidepressants banned - suicide threat

 

[Darkwind]

The real issue is; Why do these shootings take place?

Possible reasons:

1. Our society in general.
2. Our culture of violence.
3. Our culture of entitlement.
4. Drugging kids.
5. Drugging adults.
6. The media.
7. Mishandling of the mentally ill.
8. Disenfranchizement.


Where are these lunatics coming from? How many more are out there?

You forgot the entitlement mentality.

People are so conditioned to believe they are entitled to whatever they wish, that they become extremely violent when they are denied their wishes.

Just look at the Unions. Deny them ANYTHING they wish, and they start attacking people and their children.

The images of the entitlement mentality are all around us, yet we ignore that in favor of empowering a corrupt government and following self-centered agendas.

There was a time when people were taught to be patient and work for the things they desired.

Now, if I can't get My way, I'm going to go shoot up a bunch of kids in a school.

 

[Paulie]

I think we can reasonably assume that the choice to go out with guns blazing and in the most horrific way possible is being fed to these people by the media. To them their life is un-livable and the lives of others are forfeit. They see the media coverage and think that that is the way they want to go out. THEN, they think, THEY will be remembered. THEY will be noticed. Their name will be on the lips of people all over the world, and people will know their face.

I get what you're saying, but like the video game angle, it all comes down to the perpetrators detachment from reality. The media cannot be expected to ignore major news out of worry that someone else might get a bad idea from it.

Report the story but don't show the face or make the name public.

It's too late for that these days. The entire media could avoid running a single story and it could still go viral on the internet within hours.

 

[Foxfyre]

When in doubt, shoot them before they shoot you.

I know you think you're being funny. You'll forgive me if I don't laugh or take you seriously? Thank you very much.

My response is pretty much in keeping with the nonsensical argument that we would all be safer if we were all walking around armed, just ready for violence to erupt so that we could respond in order to stop it.

One more time, and maybe if I use little words and type slowly, you'll get it. This is NOT a thread about arming anybody and is NOT a thread about gun control.

It is a thread about WHY the gunman would murder innocents anywhere, let alone a classroom of five and six year olds. Can you get that? Or is this too difficult a subject?

 

[Zander]

I blame the person. Killing like this is a choice. One that requires thought and action. He is to blame, and only him. I don't want to know his name or anything about him.......

 

[Foxfyre]

I blame the person. Killing like this is a choice. One that requires thought and action. He is to blame, and only him. I don't want to know his name or anything about him.......

Paulie is right though. You simply can't keep these things hidden anymore. Somebody knows who will tweet it or put it in an e-mail or mention it on a message board and it quickly goes viral which forces the media to deal with it too.

But mass murderers have always been known to the general public in the past whether it is the Valeintine's Day massacre or the Mansion family murders or Jack the Ripper or Son of Sam or the Unabomber or any of the well known figures from our past in a time when there was no internet or quick forms of mass communication. Yet these didn't trigger copy cat crimes or the unthinkable horrors of what we saw at Columbine, Aurora, et al and yesterday.

So I have to believe there is another syndrome at work whether it is a breakdown in our value system or drug induced or some other cause. And at the same time, I agree, it is the gunman himself who is to blame.

 

[PredFan]

You know, there are so many illegal and prescribed legal drugs out there that have mild to severe adverse mental side effects. I wonder how seriously doctors take the possibility that a drug intended to help or heal could provoke violence in their patients?

What is our responsibility if we note bizarre or irrational behavior among our friends, family, associates? Should we be taking that more seriously? I wonder if that could have averted what happened yesterday?

And there is a major problem. What if a link was made between this behavior and the drug? Certainly not all people whjo take this drug go on killing sprees so how you you deal with it? This could go the same way for the mentally ill. Who gets to say who's mentally I'll? What type of mental illness doesn't get to have a gun. The problem is that it will end up being the government that decides this stuff and that will be done very pooly as all government programs are.

 

[Zander]

I blame the person. Killing like this is a choice. One that requires thought and action. He is to blame, and only him. I don't want to know his name or anything about him.......

Paulie is right though. You simply can't keep these things hidden anymore. Somebody knows who will tweet it or put it in an e-mail or mention it on a message board and it quickly goes viral which forces the media to deal with it too.

But mass murderers have always been known to the general public in the past whether it is the Valeintine's Day massacre or the Mansion family murders or Jack the Ripper or Son of Sam or the Unabomber or any of the well known figures from our past in a time when there was no internet or quick forms of mass communication. Yet these didn't trigger copy cat crimes or the unthinkable horrors of what we saw at Columbine, Aurora, et al and yesterday.

So I have to believe there is another syndrome at work whether it is a breakdown in our value system or drug induced or some other cause. And at the same time, I agree, it is the gunman himself who is to blame.

You have a good point, I agree that "Cultural rot" does factor in. To me it seems that we've become a society that is very reluctant to criticize or condemn almost any behavior. We glorify and entertain ourselves with violence. Kids are exposed to all sorts of filth and an early age.

But on the other hand, we've had mass murderers for all of recorded history.

There is no easy answer, and I don't care to think about it to much. It's an unspeakable tragedy. I cannot imagine the pain the parents are going through.....heart wrenching.

 

[PredFan]

The real issue is; Why do these shootings take place?

Possible reasons:

1. Our society in general.
2. Our culture of violence.
3. Our culture of entitlement.
4. Drugging kids.
5. Drugging adults.
6. The media.
7. Mishandling of the mentally ill.
8. Disenfranchizement.


Where are these lunatics coming from? How many more are out there?

You forgot the entitlement mentality.

People are so conditioned to believe they are entitled to whatever they wish, that they become extremely violent when they are denied their wishes.

Just look at the Unions. Deny them ANYTHING they wish, and they start attacking people and their children.

The images of the entitlement mentality are all around us, yet we ignore that in favor of empowering a corrupt government and following self-centered agendas.

There was a time when people were taught to be patient and work for the things they desired.

Now, if I can't get My way, I'm going to go shoot up a bunch of kids in a school.

No, it's there. It's number 3.

 

[Mustang]

I know you think you're being funny. You'll forgive me if I don't laugh or take you seriously? Thank you very much.

My response is pretty much in keeping with the nonsensical argument that we would all be safer if we were all walking around armed, just ready for violence to erupt so that we could respond in order to stop it.

One more time, and maybe if I use little words and type slowly, you'll get it. This is NOT a thread about arming anybody and is NOT a thread about gun control.

It is a thread about WHY the gunman would murder innocents anywhere, let alone a classroom of five and six year olds. Can you get that? Or is this too difficult a subject?

You seem to be missing the point by a wide margin. There are a LOT of crazy people in the world, PERIOD! And craziness takes all kinds of forms. Sometimes it's drugs and what it does to perception. Or it can be about long-standing personality disorders. Check out DSM-IV sometime. Or it can be about crime and antisocial behavior. Or it could be about the general desperation of people who are having problems and see no other way out. Sometimes that results in suicide. Sometimes it's murder/suicide. Or it can be about people seeking revenge for real or perceived personal or business betrayals. Or it can be garden variety mental illness which can actually be visited upon otherwise normal people. Then there are the people who have delusions of one kind or another (religious beliefs, beliefs about aliens visiting Earth, delusions of grandeur, anything really) and it hasn't interfered with their ability to function in the real world for years...until recently. Hell, I could go on and on.

Then one day, something happens. And when it does, it just so happens that these people have easy access to you know what.

People don't like to talk about it, but Dylan and Klebold (Columbine) just got tired of getting picked on. They were fuckin' pissed, and they decided to take drastic final action in a way that a young, immature (and disturbed) person might just do. Has our country done anything truly meaningful to address school bullying in the 13 years since then? How about guns? How about mental illness?

Like I said in another thread, this is just going to keep on happening until our country gets serious about addressing the problem(s), and I have seen absolutely no evidence that our country is going to address the problem. People will continue to protect the status quo. And yes, that truly does sound as crazy as the events that keep unfolding.

 

[PredFan]

I get what you're saying, but like the video game angle, it all comes down to the perpetrators detachment from reality. The media cannot be expected to ignore major news out of worry that someone else might get a bad idea from it.

Report the story but don't show the face or make the name public.

It's too late for that these days. The entire media could avoid running a single story and it could still go viral on the internet within hours.

I wouldn't expect to keep the killer totally anonymous but I think it would go a long way to take the allure away from the deed.

 

[PredFan]

I blame the person. Killing like this is a choice. One that requires thought and action. He is to blame, and only him. I don't want to know his name or anything about him.......

I do blame the person for sure but why? It seems to me we can no longer just throw up our hands and say "who knows".

 

[Foxfyre]

My response is pretty much in keeping with the nonsensical argument that we would all be safer if we were all walking around armed, just ready for violence to erupt so that we could respond in order to stop it.

One more time, and maybe if I use little words and type slowly, you'll get it. This is NOT a thread about arming anybody and is NOT a thread about gun control.

It is a thread about WHY the gunman would murder innocents anywhere, let alone a classroom of five and six year olds. Can you get that? Or is this too difficult a subject?

You seem to be missing the point by a wide margin. There are a LOT of crazy people in the world, PERIOD! And craziness takes all kinds of forms. Sometimes it's drugs and what it does to perception. Or it can be about long-standing personality disorders. Check out DWM-IV sometime. Or it can be about crime and antisocial behavior. Or it could be about the general desperation of people who are having problems and see no other way out. Sometimes that results in suicide. Sometimes it's murder/suicide. Or it can be about people seeking revenge for real or perceived personal or business betrayals. Or it can be garden variety mental illness which can actually be visited upon otherwise normal people. Then there are the people who have delusions of one kind or another (religious beliefs, beliefs about aliens visiting Earth, delusions of grandeur, anything really) and it hasn't interfered with their ability to function in the real world for years...until recently. Hell, I could go on and on.

Then one day, something happens. And when it does, it just so happens that these people have easy access to you know what.

People don't like to talk about it, but Dylan and Klebold (Columbine) just got tired of getting picked on. They were fuckin' pissed, and they decided to take drastic final action in a way that a young immature (and disturbed) person might just do. Has our country done anything truly meaningful to address school bullying in the 13 years since then? How about guns? How about mental illness?

Like I said in another thread, this is just going to keep on happening until our country gets serious about addressing the problem(S), and I have seen absolutely no evidence that our country is going to address the problem. People will continue to protect the status quo. And yes, that truly does sound as crazy as the events that keep unfolding.

Still, the thread is not about HOW they do it or whether gun control or policy of any kind can address it. That is being debated elsewhere.

This thread deals with the WHY, not the how.