Let's address the REAL issue.

[PredFan]

You forgot the entitlement mentality.

People are so conditioned to believe they are entitled to whatever they wish, that they become extremely violent when they are denied their wishes.

Just look at the Unions. Deny them ANYTHING they wish, and they start attacking people and their children.

The images of the entitlement mentality are all around us, yet we ignore that in favor of empowering a corrupt government and following self-centered agendas.

There was a time when people were taught to be patient and work for the things they desired.

Now, if I can't get My way, I'm going to go shoot up a bunch of kids in a school.

No, it's there. It's number 3.

Yet, these types of incidents occur at a much lower rate in Western Europe and Japan.

True that, and we need to look at why.

 

[PredFan]

Large capacity magazines have nothing to do with the extent of the mortality and morbidity of these incidents? You're a loon.

The weapon of choice or ability has nothing to do with the impulse to commit these horrible and unconscionable crimes.

So one more time:

To assume that it is necessary to have firearms of any type in order to commit mass murder is ludicrous. It can be done sabotaging mass transportion, with poisonous mushrooms or other toxins introduced into the food or water supply, with arson, flammable fuels, explosive gasses, nerve agents, C4, dynamite, molotov cocktails, or in the case of a recent incident in China, with a knife. etc. etc. etc.

So in this thread, let's respect the focus of the OP, set aside the 'how' for now, and focus on the 'why'.

It isn't as sexy a subject as the same old platitudes about gun control, but it is interesting to a lot of us.

How many guns did Tim McVey bring with him?

How many guns did those 11 terrorist use to hijack those airplanes?

Seriously, this whole debate about guns being a problem is so unbelievable. It's not about the guns, it's about the people who commit the crime, the murders. I don't know why people are focusing on guns.

Forget about guns. There are plenty of threads on gun control. Let those idiots take that stupidity there. This is about why, and the gun argument is about how. Just ignore their attempts to derail this thread.

 

[PredFan]

The real issue is; Why do these shootings take place?

Possible reasons:

1. Our society in general.
2. Our culture of violence.
3. Our culture of entitlement.
4. Drugging kids.
5. Drugging adults.
6. The media.
7. Mishandling of the mentally ill.
8. Disenfranchizement.


Where are these lunatics coming from? How many more are out there?

Anything to avoid the fact that our society is awash in war weopons. That the right wing has been glorifying violence and guns for a couple of decades. Look at the wingnuts here on this board with guns in their avatar.

Get the war guns off the street. Recognize and treat mental illness in our citizens at early stages, irregardless of the ability of the person with the illness to pay for the treatment. The failure to do so has already cost our nation far too much.

Hey moron, you have your choice of threads to post your stupidity. This is about why it's happening and guns are the how. Go there and leave this discussion to the adults.

 

[PredFan]

Mass Murder using guns is flat over the last twenty years in this country. No trend.

Colorado shootings add chapter to long, unpredictable story of U.S. mass murder - The Washington Post
The statistics on mass murder suggest it is a phenomenon that does not track with other types of violent crime, such as street violence. It does not seem to be affected by the economy or by law enforcement strategies. The mass murderer has become almost a stock figure in American culture, someone bent on overkill — and, so often, seemingly coming out of nowhere.

The United States experienced 645 mass-murder events — killings with at least four victims — between 1976 and 2010, according to Northeastern University criminologist James Alan Fox. When graphed, these incidents show no obvious trend. The numbers go up and down and up again. The total body count: 2,949

.

This is a tragedy, but it is not a pandemic. It's a political opportunity for Authoritarians to try and "exploit" this tragedy and take away our freedoms.

Three shooting this week. Not pandemic. You are an idiot.

And you love it don't you? Perfect reason for you to push your anti-gun stupidity. I'll bet you long for further deaths.

 

[hazlnut]

Add one.

Pretending the mentally ill aren't really mentally ill.

No one's pretending with you.

If they are, then they're lying to you.

 

[bobcollum]

The idea that video games lent to this guy's mentality is nonsense. A video game causing violent behavior is more a reflection of the users detachment from reality than the content of the game.

It's just a game, I don't have any issues playing them.

I think you and some other's better wake the hell up...

Violent video games linked to child aggression - CNN.com

Latest Study To Look At Violent Video Games Claims They Make Teenagers More Aggressive

Violent Video Games and Aggressive Behaviors

Violent Video Games Lead to Harmful Brain Changes | TIME.com

Now I feel like one of you gun-toters.

I'm telling you that I have no problems from playing video games, that I can handle it responsibly, but you insist that because some can't, they're dangerous to all.

Pretty ironic, no?

 

[bobcollum]

Btw, predfan, I don't know if you've seen it, but apparently Morgan Freeman spoke about how the media tends to not glorify, but provide too much notoriety to the perpetrators of these horrible acts, and how it leads to others going the same route, instead of just killing themselves and being largely ignored.

It does make sense to a certain degree.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Btw, predfan, I don't know if you've seen it, but apparently Morgan Freeman spoke about how the media tends to not glorify, but provide too much notoriety to the perpetrators of these horrible acts, and how it leads to others going the same route, instead of just killing themselves and being largely ignored.

It does make sense to a certain degree.

Perhaps.

But that leads to the question of how are the media to be compelled to not ‘glorify’ criminals without violating the First Amendment.

We act as if the media do this unilaterally, when in fact they’re only responding to ratings and the public’s desire to know the gory details.

 

[GoneBezerk]

The shooter was a nutjob and his mother was an idiot that ignored she had a nutjob living in her house. She allowed him to shoot her weapons, she is the #2 accomplice in this mass murder.

 

[PredFan]

Btw, predfan, I don't know if you've seen it, but apparently Morgan Freeman spoke about how the media tends to not glorify, but provide too much notoriety to the perpetrators of these horrible acts, and how it leads to others going the same route, instead of just killing themselves and being largely ignored.

It does make sense to a certain degree.

Yes, I saw a thread on it this morning. The more I think about it the more I feel that to some degree the media isn't necessarily the cause either. I do believe that the media's coverage plays into a person's decision as to how they will do it. Rather than just take out your mother and yourself, why not take her out and a whole bunch of other people. That way people will talk about you all over the world and everyone will know your name. Hell, they're going to die anyway might as well go out in a blaze of infamy.

More and more I'm leaning toward Eot's point about the drugs and the way we handle mental and emotional disorder.

 

[PredFan]

Btw, predfan, I don't know if you've seen it, but apparently Morgan Freeman spoke about how the media tends to not glorify, but provide too much notoriety to the perpetrators of these horrible acts, and how it leads to others going the same route, instead of just killing themselves and being largely ignored.

It does make sense to a certain degree.

Perhaps.

But that leads to the question of how are the media to be compelled to not ‘glorify’ criminals without violating the First Amendment.

We act as if the media do this unilaterally, when in fact they’re only responding to ratings and the public’s desire to know the gory details.

I think that if we reported the story, but left out the killer's name, it would go a long way toward preventing us from inspiring the next killer. Meanwhile, we need to find out what is causing this.

 

[bobcollum]

Btw, predfan, I don't know if you've seen it, but apparently Morgan Freeman spoke about how the media tends to not glorify, but provide too much notoriety to the perpetrators of these horrible acts, and how it leads to others going the same route, instead of just killing themselves and being largely ignored.

It does make sense to a certain degree.

Perhaps.

But that leads to the question of how are the media to be compelled to not ‘glorify’ criminals without violating the First Amendment.

We act as if the media do this unilaterally, when in fact they’re only responding to ratings and the public’s desire to know the gory details.

I agree with this as well. That's been my main problem with the whole angle of blaming the media. They have rights to do what they do, and frankly if watching reports on this sort of thing on the news causes these newer ideas for carnage to come to fruition, something else was wrong already, and was merely triggered by the media.

 

[beagle9]

The idea that video games lent to this guy's mentality is nonsense. A video game causing violent behavior is more a reflection of the users detachment from reality than the content of the game.

It's just a game, I don't have any issues playing them.

I think you and some other's better wake the hell up...

Violent video games linked to child aggression - CNN.com

Latest Study To Look At Violent Video Games Claims They Make Teenagers More Aggressive

Violent Video Games and Aggressive Behaviors

Violent Video Games Lead to Harmful Brain Changes | TIME.com

Now I feel like one of you gun-toters.

I'm telling you that I have no problems from playing video games, that I can handle it responsibly, but you insist that because some can't, they're dangerous to all.

Pretty ironic, no?

Moderation is the key, but moderation has gone straight out of the window these days, and many young people spend hours upon hours playing these games, so after that, well there is no telling what it is doing to a persons brain or character.. I will have to agree with the studies that are proffessionally done by the experts in these cases. Many young people whom struggle with identity problems, may form an alter ego from these exposures, and they may bring that alter ego to life all depending on how far it takes them or what the circumstances are in their life. Maybe we should look at moving the age of being legal to watch these games to say 21 (no one under 21 are allowed to have in their possession or are to be caught contributing these games to the deliquincy of anyone under the age of 21 or if under 21 are to be found viewing these games under scrutiny of law). If the youth are proving that they can't handle it, then the age must be raised to a level that can.

 

[GoneBezerk]

It is a combo of many things that caused this asshole to snap.

He has been a weirdo for years going back to his school years where he wouldn't associate with his peers. His loner life might've made him more mad and more crazy.

Add violent movies, music, video games and the recent shootings in Colorado and Oregon giving him the idea to be like them.

Then add his parents divorced 3 years ago, so he probably hates them...he hated everyone as a loner with mental problems.

The key piece to this was his mother. She was stupid allowing her mentally unstable, loner son to go shoot up the firing range with her. She had the weapons that he could use in this mass killing. If she properly secured these weapons, he might've been stopped or delayed enough to question his own thoughts.

He was denied buying a gun at a store 4-5 days prior the shooting, so he used his mother's arsenal. She should've known she had a problem on her hands with him and that any gun in his hands was idiotic and dangerous.

 

[bobcollum]

^ I agree with this, but try to imagine a scenario where a mother could sit there and determine that her child is a threat to society, and because of that she needs to assure that he has no access to her firearms.

Logical, certainly....expecting a parent to fully accept that about their own child, probably unlikely.

 

[beagle9]

It is a combo of many things that caused this asshole to snap.

He has been a weirdo for years going back to his school years where he wouldn't associate with his peers. His loner life might've made him more mad and more crazy.

Add violent movies, music, video games and the recent shootings in Colorado and Oregon giving him the idea to be like them.

Then add his parents divorced 3 years ago, so he probably hates them...he hated everyone as a loner with mental problems.

The key piece to this was his mother. She was stupid allowing her mentally unstable, loner son to go shoot up the firing range with her. She had the weapons that he could use in this mass killing. If she properly secured these weapons, he might've been stopped or delayed enough to question his own thoughts.

He was denied buying a gun at a store 4-5 days prior the shooting, so he used his mother's arsenal. She should've known she had a problem on her hands with him and that any gun in his hands was idiotic and dangerous.

She may have figured he was just mental enough to finally kill dad ya reckon ? Hey adults are using kids for political and diabolocal plotted footballs these days every where you look, so this wouldnot surprise me a bit these days about what parents are doing with their kids.

Didn't a woman get caught using her kids to steal for her as shown on that shocking video show, and didn't a man just get caught using his son to lure unsuspecting friends so he could molest them, and didn't he write a handbook on that also ? Havn't we had women using their daughters as prostitutes, in order to get them money for crack and other drugs ?

This boy may have been expected to live out part of his mothers vengence for her, but then it backfired because he may have loved his father more, so he killed her, and then went the way of the media exploited star seeking of killers, to finish himself and the poor souls for whom he took with him in the end off.

 

[Foxfyre]

Large capacity magazines have nothing to do with the extent of the mortality and morbidity of these incidents? You're a loon.

The weapon of choice or ability has nothing to do with the impulse to commit these horrible and unconscionable crimes.

So one more time:

To assume that it is necessary to have firearms of any type in order to commit mass murder is ludicrous. It can be done sabotaging mass transportion, with poisonous mushrooms or other toxins introduced into the food or water supply, with arson, flammable fuels, explosive gasses, nerve agents, C4, dynamite, molotov cocktails, or in the case of a recent incident in China, with a knife. etc. etc. etc.

So in this thread, let's respect the focus of the OP, set aside the 'how' for now, and focus on the 'why'.

It isn't as sexy a subject as the same old platitudes about gun control, but it is interesting to a lot of us.

How many guns did Tim McVey bring with him?

How many guns did those 11 terrorist use to hijack those airplanes?

Seriously, this whole debate about guns being a problem is so unbelievable. It's not about the guns, it's about the people who commit the crime, the murders. I don't know why people are focusing on guns.

I think some focus on guns because that is the politically corrrect target. Much less so are other issues such as pretty much kicking God out of the schools, downgrading Christmas to a totally secular holiday, an excess of violent video games, violent rap music, a culture in which it is socially dangerous for teachers to even touch, much less hug, a student, a society that drugs kids rather than deal with the occasionally hyperactive student, or even such seemingly benign things as our chemically altered diet.

Again our history is checkered with accounts of the rare serial killers and deranged maniac who goes berserk and creates mayhem. But these mass shootings lately seem to be something very different, carefully planned out and executed.

 

[beagle9]

I still am baffled by this killer, because in his pictures he doesn't look or apear to me like anyone who could have accomplished such a thing on his own...I wonder if anyone else is thinking like me on this ?

Yes there definetly should have been someone with a weapon on that campus, and there should be someone or a few on every campus in America now, who could have opposed this cat at some point and took him out or wounded him badly enough in order to stop his killing of the innocents like this.

It should mark the dawan of a new beginning in this nation as pertaining to, because we should'nt let these people parish like this in vain. By being pro-active, we are saving other lives in their name, and that is most important now. I wonder if Hollywood will even show or have a conscience on this or will it be business as usual in that industry ? All eyes should be on them to become first responders in solutions given, as well as on other factors that fed into this situation over time. It's time this nation stop exploiting children, and making it a serious crime even when hollywood or the entertainment industry does it. It's time we get the filthy paws off of our families and our children in this nation.

 

[Zander]

The focus should be on mental health. This was a disturbed, unbalanced individual. Authoritarians (on the left and right) will try to use any crisis to take away our freedoms.

 

[Meathead]

The focus should be on mental health. This was a disturbed, unbalanced individual. Authoritarians (on the left and right) will try to use any crisis to take away our freedoms.

True. The far left and right are unbalanced themselves.