Lawsuit: Michigan teacher tried to force Palestinian American student to stand for Pledge

[PeterPilot]

So only Christians believe in God?

Only Christians believe in their "God". Other religions believe in their own version of a "Creator" and they all have different names and more. It's complicated.

 

[j-mac]

Only Christians believe in their "God". Other religions believe in their own version of a "Creator" and they all have different names and more. It's complicated.

Where in the Pledge does it say that you must believe in the Christian God?

 

[PeterPilot]

So, don’t say it…

But, I find it interesting that you object for religious reasons. Are you an atheist?

Raised Catholic but left organized religion decades ago. Deist might be the best description of where I'm at. I communicate with "god" all the time, but I don't need a church or priest to help me do that.

 

[PeterPilot]

Where in the Pledge does it say that you must believe in the Christian God?

Do you know who/what the Knights of Columbus are? Can you view things in context? I remember as a youngster when there was no pledge.

 

[j-mac]

Do you know who/what the Knights of Columbus are? Can you view things in context? I remember as a youngster when there was no pledge.

My goodness, How old are you Peter? Because the pledge, at least in elementary school, was always there as far back as I can remember, and I am 63...And yes, I do know who the KofC are, I was raised Catholic...They are an honorable organization.....But, I think that Red Skelton, a comedian from back in the day, had it right in a story he told on one of his many specials of the day....It's fairly short, and tell me what you think after watching the short clip if you would...

 

[Papageorgio]

Only Christians believe in their "God". Other religions believe in their own version of a "Creator" and they all have different names and more. It's complicated.

Fair enough, I myself don’t feel it is complicated but that is just my opinion.

I believe that schools should have 15 minutes at the beginning of school and 15 minutes at the end of school dedicated to writing down what their goals for the day and how they want to attack that day and then at the end of the day of what they learned, and reflect on what they accomplished.

If someone wants to pledge allegiance or pray to whoever, they can fit it in there. I believe we need to teach young ones to set goals and reflect on where they are and what they accomplished. IMHO

 

[PeterPilot]

j-mac

For me personally in a Catholic school it was not an issue. Several older friends of mine now deceased attending public schools remembered clearly when it came into effect during Ike's administration. You can find that yourself with Google.

 

[Jroc]

No I don't think the pledge is harmful, but having been crafted by the Knights of Columbus during Ike's time, it has a Christian flavor and overtones, and even though I consider Ike to be one of the good guys, it clearly violates the spirit of the First Amendment, that the federal government must remain neutral in religious matters. Those not of the Christian faith might be offended by being forced to recite it, just as a Christian would be offended by being forced to recite some pledge to other religions.

If the government had remained neutral there would be no controversy.

Christian overtones? point to it .. what part of the pledge has Christian overtones...wtf are you talking about?

 

[PeterPilot]

Christian overtones? point to it .. what part of the pledge has Christian overtones...wtf are you talking about?

One nation UNDER GOD. Not under Allah or any of the numerous other names for the 'creator'. God is a Christian term whether you're aware of that or not.

 

[Concerned American]

Don't preach to me, you erratic creature.

Swearing allegiance is a form of showing appreciation for the rights and privileges you've been given. If you can't swear allegiance, you don't appreciate what you were given.

When I was sixteen, I showed a similar lack of appreciation while living in my Dad's house and he kicked me the f**k out. The government isn't supposed to be above us, but it does control us. We live at its mercy when the laws are just. Being forced to swear allegiance is a small price to pay for your freedom. There are brave men and women in the armed forces who spill blood and sacrifice their well-being on our behalf so that we may keep it.

Say the pledge, ingrate.

Let me preface this by affirming my support for the pledge. However, I believe in the first amendment and REQUIRING those who object to the pledge on religious grounds is counter to the 1st amendment. I attended public schools with members of the Jehovah's Witness church and they sat, respectfully, during the pledge each day but none participated. They were within their rights and this case will end up affording the person in question the same rights.

 

[j-mac]

j-mac

For me personally in a Catholic school it was not an issue. Several older friends of mine now deceased attending public schools remembered clearly when it came into effect during Ike's administration. You can find that yourself with Google.

We're not arguing when it came into existence...That is largely irrelevant to the topic.

 

[Concerned American]

Free speech is beside the point. I was taught that you respect the people who freely give you the treasure. You don't show such blatant disrespect. You may as well be one of those Mexican flag waving thugs who were rioting in LA.

Such ingratitude makes my blood boil.

The right to not pledge allegiance on religious grounds is ensconced in the first amendment.

 

[Jroc]

One nation UNDER GOD. Not under Allah or any of the numerous other names for the 'creator'. God is a Christian term whether you're aware of that or not.

God is a generic term can cover any religion youre full of s***

 

[toomuchtime_]

I’m saying we will find out when the court case concludes, my guess is there will be a settlement and they can afford to move away from an area that does not respect freedom of expression.

Clearly, the student's right to free speech was respected but the reaction to what she said was very negative, so perhaps the teacher reacted inappropriately in her role as a teacher, but there is nothing in the substance of the article to suggest she or anyone else tried to prevent her from refusing to recite the Pledge.

 

[Papageorgio]

Clearly, the student's right to free speech was respected but the reaction to what she said was very negative, so perhaps the teacher reacted inappropriately in her role as a teacher, but there is nothing in the substance of the article to suggest she or anyone else tried to prevent her from refusing to recite the Pledge.

I wouldn’t know, I wasn’t there however the accusation is there and the courts process will go on, usually these are settled out of court.

 

[JoeB131]

When you attempt to talk rationally to a person who thinks Mao is a great liberator.. and 500 million Arab Muslims in that area are victims of 8 million Jews you've lost the argument..my fault ...

Again, your concession is duly noted.

Heck, even AI programs hate the Jews, apparently.

Elon Musk's AI chatbot churns out antisemitic posts days after update

In some posts, Grok inserted antisemitic remarks into its answers without any clear prompting.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[PeterPilot]

We're not arguing when it came into existence...That is largely irrelevant to the topic.

The history of how it came into being is very relevant for those of us who study history trying to get a view of The Big Picture.

Understanding that a Catholic Organization pushed the effort is relevant to understanding what it is.

 

[j-mac]

The history of how it came into being is very relevant for those of us who study history trying to get a view of The Big Picture.

Understanding that a Catholic Organization pushed the effort is relevant to understanding what it is.

Yeah so? Do you become ill saying God?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Would you be saying that to a teacher who told a little Jewish kid not to wear his Yamulke(sic)?

No Joey, that is you.

 

[Jarlaxle]

So, don’t say it…

But, I find it interesting that you object for religious reasons. Are you an atheist?

It's often religious people who object to taking (secular) oaths. (Indeed, I recall that included several US Presidents.)