Lake Erie Today

[BS Filter]

Plate tectonics explains long term geographic shifts, but it doesn’t account for the rapid global temperature rise we’re seeing today. Alaska’s palms from millions of years ago reflect its past latitude and paleoclimate.

Today’s warming is happening on a fixed continental configuration, with temperature and sea level changes measured across the entire globe, not just where land masses happen to drift. The rate, global extent, and correlation with human greenhouse gas emissions make the current changes exceptional compared with past natural variations caused by tectonic motion.

No one knows that today's climate is an anomaly. It's an assumption based on an agenda.

 

[Anomalism]

No one knows that today's climate is an anomaly. It's an assumption based on an agenda.

It's not an assumption. It's based on decades of converging evidence.

 

[BS Filter]

It's not an assumption. It's based on decades of converging evidence.

Evidence gathered and produced by people who are always learning new things.

 

[Anomalism]

Evidence gathered and produced by people who are always learning new things.

True.

A normal feature of mature science is convergence, though, which is what has been happening.

 

[Mushroom]

No one knows that today's climate is an anomaly

Actually, we do know that. We know for a fact that it is exceptionally cold, and has been for a significant amount of time.

One only has to look at the previous interglacials to see that is a clear fact.

 

[BS Filter]

True.

A normal feature of mature science is convergence, though, which is what has been happening.

And will continue to happen. Science is always learning. That's why I'm skeptical about all this climate change stuff.

 

[BS Filter]

Actually, we do know that. We know for a fact that it is exceptionally cold, and has been for a significant amount of time.

One only has to look at the previous interglacials to see that is a clear fact.

So this warming trend is normal?

 

[Mushroom]

So this warming trend is normal?

No, it is not normal because we are exceptionally cold. Just consider the facts.

Long ago in other interglacials almost all of Florida would have been underwater. We know what the coastlines are like in a glacial, we know what they are like in an interglacial. Cities like Miami are literally built upon over 20 meters of limestone, laid down in previous interglacials. And it's well stratified, so they can tell when each layer was laid down during which interglacial.

This interglacial appeared to be warming like the previous ones from around 14,500 years ago through the Bølling–Allerød Interstadial. However, something then "broke" roughly 13,000 years ago when the Younger Dryas kicked in. Before that, it was warming like all the previous cycles. And ever since then the planet has been fighting to return to warmer temperatures, but something keeps interfering with that and sending us right back into temperatures just barely above glacial.

This can be seen in every single interglacial in the previous 4 cycles. A fast sharp increase until temperatures are from 5-10c higher than today, a sharp decline of 3-6c, then holding there on a slow decline for 5-10,000 years before a sharp decrease into the next glacial cycle.

And the closest to compare is the mess between MIS 9 and MIS 6 between around 140 kya and 340 kya. As can be seen there, we had an unusually warm interglacial that dipped once again below glacial temperatures, then once again into a long glacial cycle.

This is not the first time this has happened, and will likely not be the last. We have been in an Ice Age for over 2.5 million years, and will likely continue to be in one for another 2-5 more million years. With alternating glacial and interglacial cycles long after Homo Sapiens have gone extinct.

There is a reason why the scientists that are most likely to "push back" against the "Climate Change" fanatics are the geologists. They know these cycles, and understand this one is unusual for being so cold. But that have had to force themselves to avoid ever pointing that out, less they face the wrath of the zealots screaming to have them censored.

Part of the problem they have in really understanding past that is compression of the data once you hit around 500,000 years ago. The compression in older layers of soil, marine sediments and ice cores simply erases much more than the bare minimum of data recorded. We know that this stretches back some 2.5 million years, kicked off by a geographical event around 3 million years ago. Repeated likely well over a dozen times, but as the only clear geological evidence only clearly proves the existence of 5 glaciations, most will simply say there were five.

And this is frustrating, because there is quite literally almost no evidence on the surface to indicate if there was a glaciation, or how far it extended. Because following ice ages then came along and erased almost all of the evidence on the surface. Meaning things like ocean sediment and ice cores are all they have to try and piece together the record.

 

[BackAgain]

No, skippy, that is YOUR heroes bleating out that crap.

You can't deflect for them, sport. The posts THEY have made are everywhere.

He will always refuse to be honest.

 

[BS Filter]

No, it is not normal because we are exceptionally cold. Just consider the facts.

Long ago in other interglacials almost all of Florida would have been underwater. We know what the coastlines are like in a glacial, we know what they are like in an interglacial. Cities like Miami are literally built upon over 20 meters of limestone, laid down in previous interglacials. And it's well stratified, so they can tell when each layer was laid down during which interglacial.

This interglacial appeared to be warming like the previous ones from around 14,500 years ago through the Bølling–Allerød Interstadial. However, something then "broke" roughly 13,000 years ago when the Younger Dryas kicked in. Before that, it was warming like all the previous cycles. And ever since then the planet has been fighting to return to warmer temperatures, but something keeps interfering with that and sending us right back into temperatures just barely above glacial.

This can be seen in every single interglacial in the previous 4 cycles. A fast sharp increase until temperatures are from 5-10c higher than today, a sharp decline of 3-6c, then holding there on a slow decline for 5-10,000 years before a sharp decrease into the next glacial cycle.

And the closest to compare is the mess between MIS 9 and MIS 6 between around 140 kya and 340 kya. As can be seen there, we had an unusually warm interglacial that dipped once again below glacial temperatures, then once again into a long glacial cycle.

This is not the first time this has happened, and will likely not be the last. We have been in an Ice Age for over 2.5 million years, and will likely continue to be in one for another 2-5 more million years. With alternating glacial and interglacial cycles long after Homo Sapiens have gone extinct.

There is a reason why the scientists that are most likely to "push back" against the "Climate Change" fanatics are the geologists. They know these cycles, and understand this one is unusual for being so cold. But that have had to force themselves to avoid ever pointing that out, less they face the wrath of the zealots screaming to have them censored.

Part of the problem they have in really understanding past that is compression of the data once you hit around 500,000 years ago. The compression in older layers of soil, marine sediments and ice cores simply erases much more than the bare minimum of data recorded. We know that this stretches back some 2.5 million years, kicked off by a geographical event around 3 million years ago. Repeated likely well over a dozen times, but as the only clear geological evidence only clearly proves the existence of 5 glaciations, most will simply say there were five.

And this is frustrating, because there is quite literally almost no evidence on the surface to indicate if there was a glaciation, or how far it extended. Because following ice ages then came along and erased almost all of the evidence on the surface. Meaning things like ocean sediment and ice cores are all they have to try and piece together the record.

So you're on the opposite side of climate change?

 

[Mushroom]

So you're on the opposite side of climate change?

That is actually an example of gaslighting.

Either you are a believer in a "static earth", or you believe that things like the climate changes. The irony is that the religious fanatics both claim to be believers in science, and at the same time promoting a static earth. They are direct contradictions to each other.

And I am equally sure that if the planet was cooling and sea levels dropping they would be screaming about that also and blaming it on people.

There is no "opposite", because the climate has always been changing, and always will change. I am just stating the facts, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[westwall]

That is actually an example of gaslighting.

Either you are a believer in a "static earth", or you believe that things like the climate changes. The irony is that the religious fanatics both claim to be believers in science, and at the same time promoting a static earth. They are direct contradictions to each other.

And I am equally sure that if the planet was cooling and sea levels dropping they would be screaming about that also and blaming it on people.

There is no "opposite", because the climate has always been changing, and always will change. I am just stating the facts, nothing more and nothing less.

There is zero doubt that the climate changes. It is ALWAYS changing. The question is whether mankind has any impact at all.

To date there is zero empirical data to say it does.

The empirical data says just the opposite.

 

[Muhammed]

People have told me the Lake has cleaned up and the Lake Trout Population is booming. I wouldn't mind going up there in warmer weather and do some fishing.

The zebra mussel, an invasive species from the Black Sea, seems to have cleared up the water a lot. But they stick to your boat and underwater infrastructure like barnacles and their jagged shells wash up on the beaches and accumulate. They can be hard on the kids' feet and they are not nice to walk on.

The fishing is good for fun but there are advisories against eating the trout more than once a month. I won't eat it.

These days the biggest problem has been massive algal blooms that are exacerbated farm runoff.

 

[BS Filter]

That is actually an example of gaslighting.

Either you are a believer in a "static earth", or you believe that things like the climate changes. The irony is that the religious fanatics both claim to be believers in science, and at the same time promoting a static earth. They are direct contradictions to each other.

And I am equally sure that if the planet was cooling and sea levels dropping they would be screaming about that also and blaming it on people.

There is no "opposite", because the climate has always been changing, and always will change. I am just stating the facts, nothing more and nothing less.

Not gaslighting at all. I agree with you that the climate is always changing. My point is that the current so called climate crisis is made-made warming. Yet, you're saying the earth is cooling. Right?

 

[Mushroom]

My point is that the current so called climate crisis is made-made warming. Yet, you're saying the earth is cooling. Right?

I agree that the screaming is a fake crisis, it is all anti-scientific hype based on cherry picking data in order to try and force people to do what they want. That seems to be all that side of the political fence can do anymore. They can't actually make valid points, so scream like two year olds having a tantrum whenever people will not do as they demand.

Where exactly do I say the planet is cooling? I have said nothing of the sort.

 

[justoffal]

I agree that the screaming is a fake crisis, it is all anti-scientific hype based on cherry picking data in order to try and force people to do what they want. That seems to be all that side of the political fence can do anymore. They can't actually make valid points, so scream like two year olds having a tantrum whenever people will not do as they demand.

Where exactly do I say the planet is cooling? I have said nothing of the sort.

Need help...

This is the kind of shit that gets people all wound up.

China could sink all US carriers in 20 minutes, Pentagon chief warns

US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth warns China’s hypersonic missiles could destroy all US aircraft carriers in 20 minutes.

interestingengineering.com

Who are these people and where the hell are they getting their facts from?

They claim that Hegseth made this statement... why do I think that's probably bullshit?

Is this another iteration of Chinese propaganda infiltrating our media system?

Never heard of these people before.

 

[BS Filter]

I agree that the screaming is a fake crisis, it is all anti-scientific hype based on cherry picking data in order to try and force people to do what they want. That seems to be all that side of the political fence can do anymore. They can't actually make valid points, so scream like two year olds having a tantrum whenever people will not do as they demand.

Where exactly do I say the planet is cooling? I have said nothing of the sort.

In post #208 you say the earth is exceptionally cold.

 

[Mushroom]

Who are these people and where the hell are they getting their facts from?

They make them all up because they want people to think and behave like they do.

Also, you will find that I do not take the statements of politicians very seriously.

 

[Mushroom]

In post #208 you say the earth is exceptionally cold.

Yes, I did. And I stand behind that.

Now where did I say it was cooling?

 

[BS Filter]

Yes, I did. And I stand behind that.

Now where did I say it was cooling?

Okay, I get you now. So do you believe the warming is natural or man made?