Labor Unions...Good or Bad?

[Steelplate]

Private sector unions are fine. Closed shops are awful as they force others to comply with their belief, taking away liberty.

Public sector unions are atrocious and should be banned. Unions, like corporations, should have no sway over our elected reps for concessions. They should also not be allowed to hold taxpayers hostage for their benefit/pay bargains.

Public sector workers are economically non-productive, therefore, they only strain the economy if given the power to expect more than the market, the people, can pay them to do their nonproductive tasks.
They also, as per the above, make gains at the loss of others.

That's what they tell you on RW radio, don't they?
I'd be willing to bet that you have no real knowledge of what public sector employees do or how well they do it. Are there shitty employees in the public sector? Sure. But there are shitty employees everywhere....just like there are excellent employees everywhere. Most people fall somewhere in between slacker and super industrious.

But that concept fucks with your perception, so you'll dismiss it.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

It is no surprise that you can not distinguish between economic productivity and physical productivity. Which is why LOLberals are inside out and back-asswards. Goin' on a feelin' I presume. And I'm no republican, or right winger, as you partisan hacks like to paint anyone in disagreement as such.

 

[Steelplate]

Oh...economic productivity....I see...I suppose I can take that as you wanting the public sector yo take that step off the ledge into the downward spiral...no...fuck that....downward MAELSTROM of shitty wages and benefits that Reagan caused in the private sector.

Nahhh....I'll pass.

 

[JoeB131]

Private sector unions are fine. Closed shops are awful as they force others to comply with their belief, taking away liberty.

Public sector unions are atrocious and should be banned. Unions, like corporations, should have no sway over our elected reps for concessions. They should also not be allowed to hold taxpayers hostage for their benefit/pay bargains.

Public sector workers are economically non-productive, therefore, they only strain the economy if given the power to expect more than the market, the people, can pay them to do their nonproductive tasks.
They also, as per the above, make gains at the loss of others.

Public Sector unions are needed for the same reason that private sector unions are needed.

because left to their own devices, people who have power will abuse it.

Without a union to protect seniority and workers right, you'd have politicians giving the promotions to the idiot cousins of campaign donors.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

That's nonsense. i was in a union and the only protections that were offered were to lazy, incompetent workers. Furthermore, your argument goes in reverse too. Unions protect themselves at the loss of others. In the public sector, those losers are the taxpayers. in turn, wage manipulation above market value creates ripples into the private sector as well. This in turn, raises the prices on goods and services across the board.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Just like we see unions abusing their "power" in government these days. It's thuggery. Public sector employment is at around 34% union based. While private sector is at around 6%.

Even FDR warned against public sector unions. And he was the moran that codified a rash of labor laws favorable to unions over others.

 

[Immanuel]

Private sector unions are fine. Closed shops are awful as they force others to comply with their belief, taking away liberty.

Public sector unions are atrocious and should be banned. Unions, like corporations, should have no sway over our elected reps for concessions. They should also not be allowed to hold taxpayers hostage for their benefit/pay bargains.

Public sector workers are economically non-productive, therefore, they only strain the economy if given the power to expect more than the market, the people, can pay them to do their nonproductive tasks.
They also, as per the above, make gains at the loss of others.

Public Sector unions are needed for the same reason that private sector unions are needed.

because left to their own devices, people who have power will abuse it.

Without a union to protect seniority and workers right, you'd have politicians giving the promotions to the idiot cousins of campaign donors.

You are absolutely correct, power corrupts. Why do you support union corruption but condemn corporate corruption? Why don't you condemn corrupt politicians whose palms are greased by union bosses and CEO's?

Nearly fifty years after John F. Kennedy first condemned corrupt leadership in the American labor movement, it is still plagued by rampant corruption, embezzlement, racketeering and influence from numerous organized crime organizations. From penny-ante theft to multi-million dollar embezzlement schemes, labor leaders continue to violate the trust of the members they claim to represent.

The labor movement is nothing but the sum of its many parts—millions of working Americans who’ve entrusted union leaders to spend a portion of their hard earned salary for the benefit of the collective good. Financially speaking, the sum of the movement's parts totals more than $10 billion dollars annually in mandatory dues and controls another $400 billion in financial assets in strike funds, pension plans, and health care benefits.

In fact, in just the last five years, hundreds (maybe thousands) of labor leaders at all levels of the movement have been convicted of embezzlement, corruption, racketeering, or engaging in organized crime. The problem is rampant, getting worse, and yet the unions seemingly refuse to address it.

Key Findings:
■The Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act’s (LMRDA) reliance on self-government, public disclosure, and ultimately deterrence has failed;
■The Department of Labor’s (DOL) Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS) has investigated and prosecuted union leaders for embezzling more than $100 million in union dues since 2001;
■Investigations by the DOL’s Office of Inspector General, which investigates labor racketeering and organized crime’s influence within the labor movement, has resulted in more than $1 billion in fines, restitutions, and forfeitures;
■Fewer than 5 percent of unions audited by the DOL received unqualified passes.

Union Facts : Crime and Corruption

Immie

 

[code1211]

Private sector unions are fine. Closed shops are awful as they force others to comply with their belief, taking away liberty.

Public sector unions are atrocious and should be banned. Unions, like corporations, should have no sway over our elected reps for concessions. They should also not be allowed to hold taxpayers hostage for their benefit/pay bargains.

Public sector workers are economically non-productive, therefore, they only strain the economy if given the power to expect more than the market, the people, can pay them to do their nonproductive tasks.
They also, as per the above, make gains at the loss of others.

That's what they tell you on RW radio, don't they?
I'd be willing to bet that you have no real knowledge of what public sector employees do or how well they do it. Are there shitty employees in the public sector? Sure. But there are shitty employees everywhere....just like there are excellent employees everywhere. Most people fall somewhere in between slacker and super industrious.

But that concept fucks with your perception, so you'll dismiss it.

The problem with public sector unions is this:

The union and its membership bargain with a vested interest which is to improve their income and benefits.

The people with whom they negotiate bargain with a vested interest which is to avoid a strike and gain campaign monies.

Sounds to me like there are two sides arguing from the same side. Not much different than our hired thieves in the Congress who have approved granting themselves full income until the day they die whether they win re-election or not.

Scott Walker enacted very slight reductions in their pay and benefits and you'd think he was trying to skin their children. The public sector unions, their membership and the money they steal are all a public disgrace and something needs to be done.

 

[code1211]

Oh...economic productivity....I see...I suppose I can take that as you wanting the public sector yo take that step off the ledge into the downward spiral...no...fuck that....downward MAELSTROM of shitty wages and benefits that Reagan caused in the private sector.

Nahhh....I'll pass.

News flash: Reagans been out of office for about 25 years. I thought you might have read about it. Didn't they publish that in the Union Weekly Reader?

 

[code1211]

Private sector unions are fine. Closed shops are awful as they force others to comply with their belief, taking away liberty.

Public sector unions are atrocious and should be banned. Unions, like corporations, should have no sway over our elected reps for concessions. They should also not be allowed to hold taxpayers hostage for their benefit/pay bargains.

Public sector workers are economically non-productive, therefore, they only strain the economy if given the power to expect more than the market, the people, can pay them to do their nonproductive tasks.
They also, as per the above, make gains at the loss of others.

Public Sector unions are needed for the same reason that private sector unions are needed.

because left to their own devices, people who have power will abuse it.

Without a union to protect seniority and workers right, you'd have politicians giving the promotions to the idiot cousins of campaign donors.

This differs from the current system only in who makes that decision.

 

[Steelplate]

Oh...economic productivity....I see...I suppose I can take that as you wanting the public sector yo take that step off the ledge into the downward spiral...no...fuck that....downward MAELSTROM of shitty wages and benefits that Reagan caused in the private sector.

Nahhh....I'll pass.

News flash: Reagans been out of office for about 25 years. I thought you might have read about it. Didn't they publish that in the Union Weekly Reader?

So....all this talk about Reagan being some kind of demigod for the GOP isn't for real? You mean to tell me that the right's penchant for worshiping billionaires and screwing over the working class isn't a warmed over version of the lie that is trickle down economics?

And you wonder why some on the left call you "dupes".

 

[Meister]

Oh...economic productivity....I see...I suppose I can take that as you wanting the public sector yo take that step off the ledge into the downward spiral...no...fuck that....downward MAELSTROM of shitty wages and benefits that Reagan caused in the private sector.

Nahhh....I'll pass.

News flash: Reagans been out of office for about 25 years. I thought you might have read about it. Didn't they publish that in the Union Weekly Reader?

So....all this talk about Reagan being some kind of demigod for the GOP isn't for real? You mean to tell me that the right's penchant for worshiping billionaires and screwing over the working class isn't a warmed over version of the lie that is trickle down economics?

And you wonder why some on the left call you "dupes".

I'm not a billionaire, but I made some good money because of Reagan and his economics.

 

[Darkwind]

The poll needs to differentiate between unions in the private sector and unions in the public sector.

In the private sector, unions are free to negotiate the best deal they can get, without interference from government. The public sector unions however, should be abolished completely.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Unions are like any other organization. They start out great, do good things, but then they begin to get power. And power always - always leads to corruption...which leads to greater power...which leads to greater corruption.

In the 1930's-1960's labor unions did a lot of good for workers...a LOT of good.
But by 1970, they were ripe with corruption and illegal accounting.
By 1980 - they were strangling private industry and ruining the public sector.
Today - the strength of a public union can be measured by the failure they create.

 

[Steelplate]

News flash: Reagans been out of office for about 25 years. I thought you might have read about it. Didn't they publish that in the Union Weekly Reader?

So....all this talk about Reagan being some kind of demigod for the GOP isn't for real? You mean to tell me that the right's penchant for worshiping billionaires and screwing over the working class isn't a warmed over version of the lie that is trickle down economics?

And you wonder why some on the left call you "dupes".

I'm not a billionaire, but I made some good money because of Reagan and his economics.

What about everyone else? Fuck them...right?

 

[Mr.Nick]

Unions remind me of that scene from "Goodfellas" were Ray Liotta is like "fuck you pay me, fuck you pay me, fuck you pay me."

It's not mistake the Italian and Irish mafia made labor unions happen...

It just so happens the delegates and heads are the Kings and Queens and the workers are the pawns.

If people can't see that then they're stupid and deserve $6.50 an hour....

These criminals are guilty of racketeering...

If you think these criminal fucks are for you or the common man then you really are stupid....

 

[Darkwind]

So....all this talk about Reagan being some kind of demigod for the GOP isn't for real? You mean to tell me that the right's penchant for worshiping billionaires and screwing over the working class isn't a warmed over version of the lie that is trickle down economics?

And you wonder why some on the left call you "dupes".

I'm not a billionaire, but I made some good money because of Reagan and his economics.

What about everyone else? Fuck them...right?

Well, hell. If its good enough for the Labor Unions to say, whey can't he?

They got theirs, fuck everyone else.

 

[uscitizen]

Labor Unions...Good or Bad?

Yes.

 

[Chris]

Labor unions are good for workers, bad for greedy corporations.

 

[regent]

Unions were an answer to a problem and if industry had been reasonbly fair and honest with employees, perhaps there would have been no need for unions. The problem usually comes first and then the answers.