Labor Unions...Good or Bad?

[Harry Dresden]

Oh BTW, put me an you in a cell and we will see who walks out alive *****.

Nothing funnier than ITGs.

You think I play games??

This isn't a threat it is a ******* fact...

I've had it with old men talking shit like they're something but in reality they're nothing.

Being an old ape that knows jack-shit doesn't define an individual - nor does it make a ******* idiot a hard ass....

and being a young punk that thinks he knows shit and acts like he is a "tough guy" does not make that idiot a hard ass either......it makes him look like a DIPSHIT.....and if you have this attitude at work....i am sure your a popular guy who gets laughed at quite often....

 

[JoeB131]

Unions are shit - half of the (in house) truck drivers are drunk *****...

One nearly killed me by by almost dropping a load on my head/body...

oh and of course that could never happen in a non-union shop....right?...

And that's the point.

Really, whenever I see someone complain about something in a union shop, you have the same thing in non-union shops.

It's not a matter of how workers are represented, it's a matter of leadership. The problem is we have management in business today and not leadership, and that's kind of the problem.

 

[Harry Dresden]

No it's the fact that government will only give jobs to union labor.

thats not true.....we have private companies doing things around here all the time from plumbing to Electrical to maintaining the AC units....

All non-union?

You do realize that private companies can still be union shops don't you?

I used to deal with state government projects and not one was ever done by a non-union shop.

i already answered this above.....and NO they are not union just the local shops.....and yes the PO owns the building i work in.....the gardner who does the lawn.....not union.....the guy who comes to wash the vehicles....not union.....the AC guys ....not Union....and i know this because i use the same guys in the building i own....

 

[California Girl]

Are labor unions good or bad for capitalism and economic growth?

Explain in 300 words or less, please.

From a strictly 'capitalism' and 'economic growth' perspective, they are more bad than good. But 'capitalism' and 'economic growth' is only one - albeit important - factor to consider. People, quality of life also matter... and in that view unions can be a force for good.

Sadly, unions are prone to corruption, much like politics.

 

[Meister]

thats not true.....we have private companies doing things around here all the time from plumbing to Electrical to maintaining the AC units....

All non-union?

You do realize that private companies can still be union shops don't you?

I used to deal with state government projects and not one was ever done by a non-union shop.

i already answered this above.....and NO they are not union just the local shops.....and yes the PO owns the building i work in.....the gardner who does the lawn.....not union.....the guy who comes to wash the vehicles....not union.....the AC guys ....not Union....and i know this because i use the same guys in the building i own....

How many non union jobs did the president's stimulus create directly?

 

[Immanuel]

All non-union?

You do realize that private companies can still be union shops don't you?

I used to deal with state government projects and not one was ever done by a non-union shop.

i already answered this above.....and NO they are not union just the local shops.....and yes the PO owns the building i work in.....the gardner who does the lawn.....not union.....the guy who comes to wash the vehicles....not union.....the AC guys ....not Union....and i know this because i use the same guys in the building i own....

How many non union jobs did the president's stimulus create directly?

I'm sure they saved tens of millions, just ask them.

Immie

 

[Harry Dresden]

All non-union?

You do realize that private companies can still be union shops don't you?

I used to deal with state government projects and not one was ever done by a non-union shop.

i already answered this above.....and NO they are not union just the local shops.....and yes the PO owns the building i work in.....the gardner who does the lawn.....not union.....the guy who comes to wash the vehicles....not union.....the AC guys ....not Union....and i know this because i use the same guys in the building i own....

How many non union jobs did the president's stimulus create directly?

whats that got to do with what we wuz discussing?....

 

[Trajan]

No it's the fact that government will only give jobs to union labor.

thats not true.....we have private companies doing things around here all the time from plumbing to Electrical to maintaining the AC units....

All non-union?

You do realize that private companies can still be union shops don't you?

I used to deal with state government projects and not one was ever done by a non-union shop.

thats my experience too. I work at a gov. site, nothing we do, with the exception of gardening and sophisticated tool installs or calibrations, is not done by a union card holder getting the 'prevailing' union wage.

 

[Too Tall]

Unions provide apprenticeship programs and worker safety and health training. Unions are the only means whereby the commodity of labor (and face it, corporations view labor as a commodity not an asset) can get a fair shake in the free wheeling universe of modern American Capitalism.

Unions provide for fairness in pay, benefit, health and safety and many other work place issues.

I understand why Conservatives hate labor. They have been indoctrinated to think that way. The corporate shills they read and listen to are paid by those who want to wring every once of productivity out of a human and then toss it aside like so much scrap. They don't want a prosperous Middle Class anymore. They want bigger stock prices.

Unions force a work environement where the best trend to the least acceptable.

Jim and Joe both get 6 sick days.
Jim uses all of them...3 as additional vacation days.
Joe uses only 3 of them....and loses the other threee...but hey...he was onlyh sick 3 days.

They both get the same raise per union contract.

Next year both Jim AND Joe use all of their sick days, even though neither one wa s sick for more than 3 days.

I worked at Lockheed for a few years and the hourly (union) workers got 6 days sick leave a year. Those that didn't use their sick leave were paid a days wages for each day that they didn't take. Salaried people got 12 days a year, but it was called personal leave rather than sick leave, and it was use it or lose it.

 

[Locke11_21]

if you say so.....we have guys that carry their routes plus 2 hours of someone elses route and are on the street for 10 hours.....and if you dont think they are not working their ass off at Christmas time or Election time and when its storming outside and dark....give it a try.....you might find you dont have an ass when you get done....

Assume you are talking about postal workers. What you are actually saying is they only work hard one time a year.... they also don't "carry" their routes... they drive their routes.

Actually, postal carriers do work hard, harder now than when I worked there. Some routes in new areas is a driveout, but a lot of the older residential areas are a park and loop, where a carrier has to walk it. The job will eventually wear out a body especially now that more time is spent lugging the mail around. I had surgery because of the job...not fun, the human body was never meant to double as a mule.

Postal workers do work hard. Imagine having to be one that has to deliever mail in the worst of the worst neighborhoods. Not only is it hard work, but can be dangerous as well.


As for unions, a long time ago they were good and needed. But now, with all the federal and state regulations and protections, unions are not nearly as important as they once were. However, even with that in mind, I would not want to see unions gone, I just want to see them reigned in.

 

[oreo]

Are labor unions good or bad for capitalism and economic growth?

Explain in 300 words or less, please.

I have no problems at all with private sector unions--as they are kept in check by same industry--non union business's.

It's the public unions--(aka government workers unions) that hold state and federal budgets by the throat.

 

[Barb]

for the record they certainly were 'good', no one sane can argue for the right to employ a child to sow buttons on shirts for what amounted to slave wagers or make people work in The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Co..........


But, alas;


Private Unions- sometime in the mmid 70's the relationship changed into an adversarial one between the workers and management, I think they are both to blame but I have to say I think, the workers or that is their Union mgt. began to exploit that relationship.


Public Sector Unions- all you need to know is neither FDR or George Meany thought collective bargaining etc. in that venue, were a good idea.

as to the bold, that isn't exactly what happened
Reagan’s twenty-five percent federal tax cut caused a considerable addition to the federal deficit, and an almost twenty percent rise in foreign investment on that debt that led to higher large dollar holdings and an unfavorable trade imbalance. While Reagan blamed the deficits on Congress, conservative pundits convinced many in society to blame the unions when factories moved to other countries. However, ninety-five percent of the reason for the deficits was high defense spending and the refusal to raise taxes to pay for it. In 1982, the deficit was 90 billion dollars, and by 1987, it totaled 283 billion dollars. The shortfall of revenue required the US to borrow money, which raised interest rates. The higher interest rates attracted foreign investment, which caused the value of the dollar to rise out of any proportion to its actual worth. As the dollar skyrocketed, imports became cheaper than products made by American labor, and the trade imbalance became even more disproportionate as foreign markets could not afford American made goods at the inflated dollar value either.
These circumstances were what compelled many American businesses to relocate to third-world countries in search of low wage labor platforms. Not the demands for decent working conditions and reasonable increases in wages by unions, not regulations that prohibited industry from urinating in our common well, and not a tax code that billed them at a very reasonable rate for services rendered.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Are labor unions good or bad for capitalism and economic growth?

Explain in 300 words or less, please.

I think the UAW, Teamsters and Longshoremen are bad for both the economy and in the case, of the UAW and Teamsters, their members.
They are corrupt and drive the price of labor WAY beyond a "fair wage". I'm happy to cite specifics.
On the other hand there are unions that are good. As much as the GOP likes to villify them, I think teachers are grossly underpaid - especially given the education and responsibilities they have.
Is that over 300 words?

 

[Barb]

If unions were gone, how long would those laws stay around?

Think of a story you heard about someone being screwed over at work. I can guarantee it was not a union position.

the key word of your statement is "story"...

I have never met someone who was screwed over at work whoi did not deserve it.

Work hard, dont use all of your sick days, show a high interest level in what you do, dont complain about how much you hate your job...and you wont get screwed over.

Not really considered rocket science.

Uhm, screwed over kind of implies they didn't deserve it. They were doing all the things you suggested, and still got fired due to "budget cuts" or some other bull shit.

like this?

“They brought in security guards. They fired us all. They walked us out of the building.” ‹ I Acknowledge Class Warfare Exists

They brought in security guards. They fired us all. They walked us out of the building.
~Randy Johnson

CBS News explains what happened today – article HERE:

 

[Barb]

 

[editec]

Bricks -- Good or BAD?

in 300 word or less.

My god are you really THAT stupid?

 

[Steelplate]

I really enjoy these undefined terms.

By screwed over...do you mean treated unfairly ?

How is that gauged ?

Here you go.

If someone works at a company 20 years, with a solid work record, should the company be allowed to fire him so they can bring in someone younger and cheaper?

Nice example.

What you need is criteria....or is this the only way someone can get screwed over.

And the answer is...generally if they want to, they can. They can always find a reason to fire you.

Next, 20 years means nothing. It does not say you are worth more.

If you don't get fired, it is because they want to keep you or don't think they can replace you.

What if they come to the 20 year guy and say, you can take a cut or be laid off....cause we can get this job done cheaper ?

Next.

Ok we get it....you're a definate yes on the subject. **** the future of the 20year vet....**** contracts....**** the employee.

 

[Steelplate]

for the record they certainly were 'good', no one sane can argue for the right to employ a child to sow buttons on shirts for what amounted to slave wagers or make people work in The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Co..........


But, alas;


Private Unions- sometime in the mmid 70's the relationship changed into an adversarial one between the workers and management, I think they are both to blame but I have to say I think, the workers or that is their Union mgt. began to exploit that relationship.


Public Sector Unions- all you need to know is neither FDR or George Meany thought collective bargaining etc. in that venue, were a good idea.

You don't know your history. Oh. I forgot....you're a rightie...you get your history from Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck. Plus, if you come across history you don't like....you revise it to your liking...just like in Texas.

Organized labor and strikes have been an adversarial relationship. Look up how many people striking have been shot and killed by company men, police and sometimes the National Guard in the late 1800's/early 1900's.

 

[skookerasbil]

Botomn line is, in 2012, those in favor of the anti-Walker people in Wisconsin are nothing more than miserable, angry, jealous, assholes who want as much free lunch as they can get. **** these union assholes in Wisconsin.........Im foaming at the mouth waiting for them to go down hard next month in the recall!! I'll be laughing my balls off and the USMESSAGEBOARD will be treated to a few volumes of gay MSPAINT photobucket classics depicting their misery.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Private sector unions are fine. Closed shops are awful as they force others to comply with their belief, taking away liberty.

Public sector unions are atrocious and should be banned. Unions, like corporations, should have no sway over our elected reps for concessions. They should also not be allowed to hold taxpayers hostage for their benefit/pay bargains.

Public sector workers are economically non-productive, therefore, they only strain the economy if given the power to expect more than the market, the people, can pay them to do their nonproductive tasks.
They also, as per the above, make gains at the loss of others.