LA teachers union holds school openings hostage

[daveman]

Teacher's unions should be abolished.

Thank you comrade! I suppose you want the Teamsters, UMW and UAW abolished also! Communist bastard!

Unions have become that which they were formed to protect against:

Organizations that exploit workers for money.

Not sure how that's a Communist position. Pretty sure it's the complete opposite, but you do you, Skippy.

Communists oppose unions because they do not want workers to have rights of any sort. That's why you are a communist.

I don't agree with their position, but I support their right to say it.

Wow. That's stupid as hell.

Yes, you are stupid as hell! What's worse is that it is self-inflicted.

Unions are perfectly legal in this country and trying to ban them is immoral. Fix the problem because you cannot get rid of unions.

Most people do not realize that teachers are not allowed by law to strike, so what power do they have?

Teachers' unions are a Democrat money-laundering scheme and incompetent teacher protection racket. They do students no good at all.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Teacher's unions should be abolished.

Thank you comrade! I suppose you want the Teamsters, UMW and UAW abolished also! Communist bastard!

Unions have become that which they were formed to protect against:

Organizations that exploit workers for money.

Not sure how that's a Communist position. Pretty sure it's the complete opposite, but you do you, Skippy.

Communists oppose unions because they do not want workers to have rights of any sort. That's why you are a communist.

I don't agree with their position, but I support their right to say it.

Wow. That's stupid as hell.

Yes, you are stupid as hell! What's worse is that it is self-inflicted.

Unions are perfectly legal in this country and trying to ban them is immoral. Fix the problem because you cannot get rid of unions.

Most people do not realize that teachers are not allowed by law to strike, so what power do they have?

Teachers' unions are a Democrat money-laundering scheme and incompetent teacher protection racket. They do students no good at all.

Listen shit-for-brains! Unions don't look out for students because they are not employed as teachers. Do you think the UAW design cars? Does the UMW care about what is being mined? Does the IUEW care about power pole selection?

 

[SeaGal]

My God, you are old!
I was in 2nd grade in KY. They still tell stories of teachers who lost their jobs and teacher certifications from that strike when I worked in FL from 1996-2006.

...older than dirt.

We didn't lose any teachers over it but a few years earlier we did lose a science teacher because he violated (so we were told) a 'morals' clause in his contract - something like 'lewd and lascivious behavior' in a bar.

 

[Correll]

A major teachers union is claiming that the re-opening of schools in its district cannot occur without several substantial policy provisions in place, including a "moratorium" on charter schools and the defunding of local police. Yep, waiting for Pelosi to tell us it's all about the children.

LA teachers union holds school openings hostage to its call to end charter schools

Good. LA needs to get rid of it's cops. ALL OF them. They just murder black males for no reason.


Any lib that does not support that, is a *****.

 

[Bobob]

Where do they walk out? As a school board member I always supported the union, and what they did for our kids. Too many Americans want them to teach for free. It's the conservative way.

Teachers are largely over paid in our country. It's ridiculous to think otherwise really.

https://leapacademy.cps-k12.org/news/whats-new/hundreds-come-apply-cincinnati-public-schools-job-fair

Here in Ohio, we had hundreds of people wait in line to apply for just a few open teaching positions.

Why are hundreds of people trying to get a job that according to you, is underpaid? You don't see people flocking to Wendy's for a burger job, because the pay is low.

If teachers were even remotely underpaid, you wouldn't see hundreds of people clamoring to get the job.

I believe that teachers are grossly underpaid since they are largely responsible for our kids' growth. Can anybody put a price tag on that? To attract capable people, they have to be paid accordingly. The question is......where does the money come from? However, I am opposed to unions that hold communities hostage.

Teachers are not grossly underpaid.

My parents today are millionaires. They have a net worth of roughly $1.5 Million I'd say. They were public school teachers.

Can anybody put a price tag on that? Yes of course they can.

If the price was so high, that you ended up homeless and on the street with your educated, but now starving to death kid, you would understand that of course prices matter.

Look at Venezuela. Free education man.... starving to death, and bitterly impoverished.

Yes, you can put a price on it, of course you can.

If you compare US teacher wages, to those around the world.... most teachers are paid less... *AND* most provide better education while being paid less.

Where did your parents teach and for how long? That makes a huge difference.

You obviously are an idiot if you don't understand cost of living. A NYC teacher's pay would be double that in someplace like Florida.

My parents were not teachers. I was a small business owner for 30+ years and have an excellent understanding of "cost of living". I am referring to the responsibility that teachers have and the knowledge that they should have to influence our children in undergraduate schools relative to mental and social growth.

Where is that in the curriculum?

The mental part involves book learning and stimulating the mind. The social education is represented by the teacher's demeanor and influence. Isn't that what schooling is all about and isn't that inherent in all curriculum?
Does it have to be spelled out in black and white? No.

 

[Andylusion]

Where do they walk out? As a school board member I always supported the union, and what they did for our kids. Too many Americans want them to teach for free. It's the conservative way.

Teachers are largely over paid in our country. It's ridiculous to think otherwise really.

https://leapacademy.cps-k12.org/news/whats-new/hundreds-come-apply-cincinnati-public-schools-job-fair

Here in Ohio, we had hundreds of people wait in line to apply for just a few open teaching positions.

Why are hundreds of people trying to get a job that according to you, is underpaid? You don't see people flocking to Wendy's for a burger job, because the pay is low.

If teachers were even remotely underpaid, you wouldn't see hundreds of people clamoring to get the job.

Teaching is not like most jobs. You have to be certified in the area you are being hired. No, it is not overpaid. I made $55K for one year out of 21 and it was in the worst school in the state.

Obviously you already know I am going to disagree, but before I say anything to you, I want to make something perfectly clear. Please do not take this personally. I don't know you from Joe Blow. You might be the best teacher your state has ever had, and maybe you were grossly underpaid for your services. How would I know? Right? I don't know anything about you, or your wage, or how well you taught, or anything about your specific qualifications and what teachers in the position you worked were worth.

I am aware of how teaching works with certifications and such. Like I said both my parents were teachers in public schools.

And both made quite a bit more than $55K, and the benefits are exceptionally good.

Plus, when you add in the fact that it is nearly impossible to fire a teacher, that is value you can't find in nearly any other job on the planet.

I assume you are aware of the Rubber Rooms of NYC, where teachers that were too terrible to allow to teach, yet too expensive to fire, were given full salaries to sit in the rubber room.

My father specifically, was an OSU professor, moved to public schools, and worked 38 years, and then after he retired, had colleges calling him up, and ended up working another 10 years as a professor elsewhere. He was rated one of the top teachers in the state. When he retired from the public education system, he was nearly at 6-figures. So for him, I think he was paid what he was worth.

However, when I say teachers are over paid, that is a very general statement. Over all.... over the vast number of teachers throughout all the public school systems in the country.... it is just a fact, that they are paid too much, for too little.

When you compare the quality of education being provided, verses the pay that teachers make... we pay more... for worse education, than the vast majority of countries all over the planet.

It is just a fact. I don't know how to explain it any more clearly. When you compare the US education system with the entire rest of the world, most places pay teachers less, and many FAR LESS.... and almost all of them get better educational results.

That is simply a fact. I'm not sure how else to put it.

And again, even if you compare schools inside the US... private schools end up with drastically better educational results, while spending almost half as much per student, than the public schools.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Where do they walk out? As a school board member I always supported the union, and what they did for our kids. Too many Americans want them to teach for free. It's the conservative way.

Teachers are largely over paid in our country. It's ridiculous to think otherwise really.

https://leapacademy.cps-k12.org/news/whats-new/hundreds-come-apply-cincinnati-public-schools-job-fair

Here in Ohio, we had hundreds of people wait in line to apply for just a few open teaching positions.

Why are hundreds of people trying to get a job that according to you, is underpaid? You don't see people flocking to Wendy's for a burger job, because the pay is low.

If teachers were even remotely underpaid, you wouldn't see hundreds of people clamoring to get the job.

I believe that teachers are grossly underpaid since they are largely responsible for our kids' growth. Can anybody put a price tag on that? To attract capable people, they have to be paid accordingly. The question is......where does the money come from? However, I am opposed to unions that hold communities hostage.

Teachers are not grossly underpaid.

My parents today are millionaires. They have a net worth of roughly $1.5 Million I'd say. They were public school teachers.

Can anybody put a price tag on that? Yes of course they can.

If the price was so high, that you ended up homeless and on the street with your educated, but now starving to death kid, you would understand that of course prices matter.

Look at Venezuela. Free education man.... starving to death, and bitterly impoverished.

Yes, you can put a price on it, of course you can.

If you compare US teacher wages, to those around the world.... most teachers are paid less... *AND* most provide better education while being paid less.

Where did your parents teach and for how long? That makes a huge difference.

You obviously are an idiot if you don't understand cost of living. A NYC teacher's pay would be double that in someplace like Florida.

My parents were not teachers. I was a small business owner for 30+ years and have an excellent understanding of "cost of living". I am referring to the responsibility that teachers have and the knowledge that they should have to influence our children in undergraduate schools relative to mental and social growth.

Where is that in the curriculum?

The mental part involves book learning and stimulating the mind. The social education is represented by the teacher's demeanor and influence. Isn't that what schooling is all about and isn't that inherent in all curriculum?
Does it have to be spelled out in black and white? No.

My demeanor and influence don't impact my ability for them to factor trinomials.

I knew a few liberal teachers, in fact there were very few. Their demeanor and influence was always professional. You are imagining a problem that does not exist.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Where do they walk out? As a school board member I always supported the union, and what they did for our kids. Too many Americans want them to teach for free. It's the conservative way.

Teachers are largely over paid in our country. It's ridiculous to think otherwise really.

https://leapacademy.cps-k12.org/news/whats-new/hundreds-come-apply-cincinnati-public-schools-job-fair

Here in Ohio, we had hundreds of people wait in line to apply for just a few open teaching positions.

Why are hundreds of people trying to get a job that according to you, is underpaid? You don't see people flocking to Wendy's for a burger job, because the pay is low.

If teachers were even remotely underpaid, you wouldn't see hundreds of people clamoring to get the job.

Teaching is not like most jobs. You have to be certified in the area you are being hired. No, it is not overpaid. I made $55K for one year out of 21 and it was in the worst school in the state.

Obviously you already know I am going to disagree, but before I say anything to you, I want to make something perfectly clear. Please do not take this personally. I don't know you from Joe Blow. You might be the best teacher your state has ever had, and maybe you were grossly underpaid for your services. How would I know? Right? I don't know anything about you, or your wage, or how well you taught, or anything about your specific qualifications and what teachers in the position you worked were worth.

I am aware of how teaching works with certifications and such. Like I said both my parents were teachers in public schools.

And both made quite a bit more than $55K, and the benefits are exceptionally good.

Plus, when you add in the fact that it is nearly impossible to fire a teacher, that is value you can't find in nearly any other job on the planet.

I assume you are aware of the Rubber Rooms of NYC, where teachers that were too terrible to allow to teach, yet too expensive to fire, were given full salaries to sit in the rubber room.

My father specifically, was an OSU professor, moved to public schools, and worked 38 years, and then after he retired, had colleges calling him up, and ended up working another 10 years as a professor elsewhere. He was rated one of the top teachers in the state. When he retired from the public education system, he was nearly at 6-figures. So for him, I think he was paid what he was worth.

However, when I say teachers are over paid, that is a very general statement. Over all.... over the vast number of teachers throughout all the public school systems in the country.... it is just a fact, that they are paid too much, for too little.

When you compare the quality of education being provided, verses the pay that teachers make... we pay more... for worse education, than the vast majority of countries all over the planet.

View attachment 363555

It is just a fact. I don't know how to explain it any more clearly. When you compare the US education system with the entire rest of the world, most places pay teachers less, and many FAR LESS.... and almost all of them get better educational results.

That is simply a fact. I'm not sure how else to put it.

And again, even if you compare schools inside the US... private schools end up with drastically better educational results, while spending almost half as much per student, than the public schools.

How are you measuring those educational results? If you are using International Test, you obviously do not know how those results are manipulated statistically to make the US appear worse than it is. Comparing the US with a large immigrant and minority population to countries with a homogeneous population is not significant.

You use data to support your position, while ignoring the same data regarding teacher salary and benefits. Hypocrisy?

 

[Andylusion]

Where do they walk out? As a school board member I always supported the union, and what they did for our kids. Too many Americans want them to teach for free. It's the conservative way.

Teachers are largely over paid in our country. It's ridiculous to think otherwise really.

https://leapacademy.cps-k12.org/news/whats-new/hundreds-come-apply-cincinnati-public-schools-job-fair

Here in Ohio, we had hundreds of people wait in line to apply for just a few open teaching positions.

Why are hundreds of people trying to get a job that according to you, is underpaid? You don't see people flocking to Wendy's for a burger job, because the pay is low.

If teachers were even remotely underpaid, you wouldn't see hundreds of people clamoring to get the job.

Teaching is not like most jobs. You have to be certified in the area you are being hired. No, it is not overpaid. I made $55K for one year out of 21 and it was in the worst school in the state.

Obviously you already know I am going to disagree, but before I say anything to you, I want to make something perfectly clear. Please do not take this personally. I don't know you from Joe Blow. You might be the best teacher your state has ever had, and maybe you were grossly underpaid for your services. How would I know? Right? I don't know anything about you, or your wage, or how well you taught, or anything about your specific qualifications and what teachers in the position you worked were worth.

I am aware of how teaching works with certifications and such. Like I said both my parents were teachers in public schools.

And both made quite a bit more than $55K, and the benefits are exceptionally good.

Plus, when you add in the fact that it is nearly impossible to fire a teacher, that is value you can't find in nearly any other job on the planet.

I assume you are aware of the Rubber Rooms of NYC, where teachers that were too terrible to allow to teach, yet too expensive to fire, were given full salaries to sit in the rubber room.

My father specifically, was an OSU professor, moved to public schools, and worked 38 years, and then after he retired, had colleges calling him up, and ended up working another 10 years as a professor elsewhere. He was rated one of the top teachers in the state. When he retired from the public education system, he was nearly at 6-figures. So for him, I think he was paid what he was worth.

However, when I say teachers are over paid, that is a very general statement. Over all.... over the vast number of teachers throughout all the public school systems in the country.... it is just a fact, that they are paid too much, for too little.

When you compare the quality of education being provided, verses the pay that teachers make... we pay more... for worse education, than the vast majority of countries all over the planet.

View attachment 363555

It is just a fact. I don't know how to explain it any more clearly. When you compare the US education system with the entire rest of the world, most places pay teachers less, and many FAR LESS.... and almost all of them get better educational results.

That is simply a fact. I'm not sure how else to put it.

And again, even if you compare schools inside the US... private schools end up with drastically better educational results, while spending almost half as much per student, than the public schools.

How are you measuring those educational results? If you are using International Test, you obviously do not know how those results are manipulated statistically to make the US appear worse than it is. Comparing the US with a large immigrant and minority population to countries with a homogeneous population is not significant.

You use data to support your position, while ignoring the same data regarding teacher salary and benefits. Hypocrisy?

That was the data on salary and benefits. I just posted it. In fact, that data I posted, was directly from a public teacher group, saying we needed to increase salaries.

As far as the international tests being manipulated... I am not opposed to that claim.....

However, even within the United States, public school results are horrific.

Several Baltimore schools report 0 students proficient in math, reading

Despite relatively high per-pupil spending, the city's schools continue to struggle.

www.educationdive.com

Several schools.... ZERO proficient in math and reading.

Zero. None. Was every single student an immigrant?

And we see how these bad schools get around the governments attempts to improve educational outcomes... but simply cheating and faking grades.

BCPS board member announced retirement weeks after alleged cheating reported

Baltimore County Public Schools is responding to a Fox45 investigation that found a sitting school board member, in 2012, was involved in an alleged cheating scandal investigation at Randallstown High School. Board Member Cheryl Pasteur still refuses to speak with Project Baltimore about her...

foxbaltimore.com

Here a person running a school, during a cheating scandal, ended up on the school board.

And even if you could somehow explain all that away, how do you explain the fact colleges have to expand remedial class, for students that come out of high school with diplomas?

In City Schools, 44 Employees Earn More than Governor

BALTIMORE (WBFF) - Can you put a price on a good teacher, principal or school superintendent? Baltimore City Schools has, to the tune of six-figure salaries.Baltimore City Schools CEO Sonja Santelises oversees 82,000 students and a $1.3 billion budget. It

foxbaltimore.com

School employees paid more than the governor.

UPDATE: Baltimore City Now America's Third Most Funded School System

foxbaltimore.com

Highest funded school system in the country.

And this isn't limited to Baltimore. That's just the most egregious example.

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www.highereducation.org

​

About one-quarter of incoming students to these institutions are fully prepared for college-level studies. The remaining 75% need remedial work in English, mathematics, or both​

75% of students show up at colleges with High School Diplomas, end up needing high school level remedial classes.

Are 75% of all the students in the country immigrants?

How do you explain that? How do you have a student that has a high school diploma that doesn't have a high school education?

Well.... it fits with the rest of the evidence. Public school students are not proficient at their grade level, and public school administrators are systematically inflating grades to pass them, and when caught nothing happens.

So obviously they are not being taught this stuff in high school, and obviously someone must be artificially increasing their grades.

And we have clear direct evidence of both.

How do you explain all of this?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Where do they walk out? As a school board member I always supported the union, and what they did for our kids. Too many Americans want them to teach for free. It's the conservative way.

Teachers are largely over paid in our country. It's ridiculous to think otherwise really.

https://leapacademy.cps-k12.org/news/whats-new/hundreds-come-apply-cincinnati-public-schools-job-fair

Here in Ohio, we had hundreds of people wait in line to apply for just a few open teaching positions.

Why are hundreds of people trying to get a job that according to you, is underpaid? You don't see people flocking to Wendy's for a burger job, because the pay is low.

If teachers were even remotely underpaid, you wouldn't see hundreds of people clamoring to get the job.

Teaching is not like most jobs. You have to be certified in the area you are being hired. No, it is not overpaid. I made $55K for one year out of 21 and it was in the worst school in the state.

Obviously you already know I am going to disagree, but before I say anything to you, I want to make something perfectly clear. Please do not take this personally. I don't know you from Joe Blow. You might be the best teacher your state has ever had, and maybe you were grossly underpaid for your services. How would I know? Right? I don't know anything about you, or your wage, or how well you taught, or anything about your specific qualifications and what teachers in the position you worked were worth.

I am aware of how teaching works with certifications and such. Like I said both my parents were teachers in public schools.

And both made quite a bit more than $55K, and the benefits are exceptionally good.

Plus, when you add in the fact that it is nearly impossible to fire a teacher, that is value you can't find in nearly any other job on the planet.

I assume you are aware of the Rubber Rooms of NYC, where teachers that were too terrible to allow to teach, yet too expensive to fire, were given full salaries to sit in the rubber room.

My father specifically, was an OSU professor, moved to public schools, and worked 38 years, and then after he retired, had colleges calling him up, and ended up working another 10 years as a professor elsewhere. He was rated one of the top teachers in the state. When he retired from the public education system, he was nearly at 6-figures. So for him, I think he was paid what he was worth.

However, when I say teachers are over paid, that is a very general statement. Over all.... over the vast number of teachers throughout all the public school systems in the country.... it is just a fact, that they are paid too much, for too little.

When you compare the quality of education being provided, verses the pay that teachers make... we pay more... for worse education, than the vast majority of countries all over the planet.

View attachment 363555

It is just a fact. I don't know how to explain it any more clearly. When you compare the US education system with the entire rest of the world, most places pay teachers less, and many FAR LESS.... and almost all of them get better educational results.

That is simply a fact. I'm not sure how else to put it.

And again, even if you compare schools inside the US... private schools end up with drastically better educational results, while spending almost half as much per student, than the public schools.

How are you measuring those educational results? If you are using International Test, you obviously do not know how those results are manipulated statistically to make the US appear worse than it is. Comparing the US with a large immigrant and minority population to countries with a homogeneous population is not significant.

You use data to support your position, while ignoring the same data regarding teacher salary and benefits. Hypocrisy?

That was the data on salary and benefits. I just posted it. In fact, that data I posted, was directly from a public teacher group, saying we needed to increase salaries.

As far as the international tests being manipulated... I am not opposed to that claim.....

However, even within the United States, public school results are horrific.

Several Baltimore schools report 0 students proficient in math, reading

Despite relatively high per-pupil spending, the city's schools continue to struggle.

www.educationdive.com

Several schools.... ZERO proficient in math and reading.

Zero. None. Was every single student an immigrant?

And we see how these bad schools get around the governments attempts to improve educational outcomes... but simply cheating and faking grades.

BCPS board member announced retirement weeks after alleged cheating reported

Baltimore County Public Schools is responding to a Fox45 investigation that found a sitting school board member, in 2012, was involved in an alleged cheating scandal investigation at Randallstown High School. Board Member Cheryl Pasteur still refuses to speak with Project Baltimore about her...

foxbaltimore.com

Here a person running a school, during a cheating scandal, ended up on the school board.

And even if you could somehow explain all that away, how do you explain the fact colleges have to expand remedial class, for students that come out of high school with diplomas?

In City Schools, 44 Employees Earn More than Governor

BALTIMORE (WBFF) - Can you put a price on a good teacher, principal or school superintendent? Baltimore City Schools has, to the tune of six-figure salaries.Baltimore City Schools CEO Sonja Santelises oversees 82,000 students and a $1.3 billion budget. It

foxbaltimore.com

School employees paid more than the governor.

UPDATE: Baltimore City Now America's Third Most Funded School System

foxbaltimore.com

Highest funded school system in the country.

And this isn't limited to Baltimore. That's just the most egregious example.

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www.highereducation.org

​

About one-quarter of incoming students to these institutions are fully prepared for college-level studies. The remaining 75% need remedial work in English, mathematics, or both​

75% of students show up at colleges with High School Diplomas, end up needing high school level remedial classes.

Are 75% of all the students in the country immigrants?

How do you explain that? How do you have a student that has a high school diploma that doesn't have a high school education?

Well.... it fits with the rest of the evidence. Public school students are not proficient at their grade level, and public school administrators are systematically inflating grades to pass them, and when caught nothing happens.

So obviously they are not being taught this stuff in high school, and obviously someone must be artificially increasing their grades.

And we have clear direct evidence of both.

How do you explain all of this?

I could take the time and explain it all, but you would simply ignore it and continue to revel in your ignorance and misinformation.

The best way to summarize it is to say that just because information is taught, doesn't mean that it is retained. I taught math and had students pass my unit tests with no problem. Give them a final exam and the vast majority failed, even though the same questions were used as on the unit tests. How do you explain that? They could not retain the information because their brain was filled with distractions on their cell phones.

My own daughter was a "remedial" math student when she went to college despite passing math classes through calculus in high school, graduating with honors. She then passed all of her math classes in college and received a degree in biology with honors. Explain that!

 

[daveman]

Teacher's unions should be abolished.

Thank you comrade! I suppose you want the Teamsters, UMW and UAW abolished also! Communist bastard!

Unions have become that which they were formed to protect against:

Organizations that exploit workers for money.

Not sure how that's a Communist position. Pretty sure it's the complete opposite, but you do you, Skippy.

Communists oppose unions because they do not want workers to have rights of any sort. That's why you are a communist.

I don't agree with their position, but I support their right to say it.

Wow. That's stupid as hell.

Yes, you are stupid as hell! What's worse is that it is self-inflicted.

Unions are perfectly legal in this country and trying to ban them is immoral. Fix the problem because you cannot get rid of unions.

Most people do not realize that teachers are not allowed by law to strike, so what power do they have?

Teachers' unions are a Democrat money-laundering scheme and incompetent teacher protection racket. They do students no good at all.

Listen shit-for-brains! Unions don't look out for students because they are not employed as teachers. Do you think the UAW design cars? Does the UMW care about what is being mined? Does the IUEW care about power pole selection?

Goodness, you're an angry little thing. Are you an incompetent worker whose only reason for continued employment is union membership?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Teacher's unions should be abolished.

Thank you comrade! I suppose you want the Teamsters, UMW and UAW abolished also! Communist bastard!

Unions have become that which they were formed to protect against:

Organizations that exploit workers for money.

Not sure how that's a Communist position. Pretty sure it's the complete opposite, but you do you, Skippy.

Communists oppose unions because they do not want workers to have rights of any sort. That's why you are a communist.

I don't agree with their position, but I support their right to say it.

Wow. That's stupid as hell.

Yes, you are stupid as hell! What's worse is that it is self-inflicted.

Unions are perfectly legal in this country and trying to ban them is immoral. Fix the problem because you cannot get rid of unions.

Most people do not realize that teachers are not allowed by law to strike, so what power do they have?

Teachers' unions are a Democrat money-laundering scheme and incompetent teacher protection racket. They do students no good at all.

Listen shit-for-brains! Unions don't look out for students because they are not employed as teachers. Do you think the UAW design cars? Does the UMW care about what is being mined? Does the IUEW care about power pole selection?

Goodness, you're an angry little thing. Are you an incompetent worker whose only reason for continued employment is union membership?

I retired after 21 years. I work for a defense contractor now.

 

[Andylusion]

Where do they walk out? As a school board member I always supported the union, and what they did for our kids. Too many Americans want them to teach for free. It's the conservative way.

Teachers are largely over paid in our country. It's ridiculous to think otherwise really.

https://leapacademy.cps-k12.org/news/whats-new/hundreds-come-apply-cincinnati-public-schools-job-fair

Here in Ohio, we had hundreds of people wait in line to apply for just a few open teaching positions.

Why are hundreds of people trying to get a job that according to you, is underpaid? You don't see people flocking to Wendy's for a burger job, because the pay is low.

If teachers were even remotely underpaid, you wouldn't see hundreds of people clamoring to get the job.

Teaching is not like most jobs. You have to be certified in the area you are being hired. No, it is not overpaid. I made $55K for one year out of 21 and it was in the worst school in the state.

Obviously you already know I am going to disagree, but before I say anything to you, I want to make something perfectly clear. Please do not take this personally. I don't know you from Joe Blow. You might be the best teacher your state has ever had, and maybe you were grossly underpaid for your services. How would I know? Right? I don't know anything about you, or your wage, or how well you taught, or anything about your specific qualifications and what teachers in the position you worked were worth.

I am aware of how teaching works with certifications and such. Like I said both my parents were teachers in public schools.

And both made quite a bit more than $55K, and the benefits are exceptionally good.

Plus, when you add in the fact that it is nearly impossible to fire a teacher, that is value you can't find in nearly any other job on the planet.

I assume you are aware of the Rubber Rooms of NYC, where teachers that were too terrible to allow to teach, yet too expensive to fire, were given full salaries to sit in the rubber room.

My father specifically, was an OSU professor, moved to public schools, and worked 38 years, and then after he retired, had colleges calling him up, and ended up working another 10 years as a professor elsewhere. He was rated one of the top teachers in the state. When he retired from the public education system, he was nearly at 6-figures. So for him, I think he was paid what he was worth.

However, when I say teachers are over paid, that is a very general statement. Over all.... over the vast number of teachers throughout all the public school systems in the country.... it is just a fact, that they are paid too much, for too little.

When you compare the quality of education being provided, verses the pay that teachers make... we pay more... for worse education, than the vast majority of countries all over the planet.

View attachment 363555

It is just a fact. I don't know how to explain it any more clearly. When you compare the US education system with the entire rest of the world, most places pay teachers less, and many FAR LESS.... and almost all of them get better educational results.

That is simply a fact. I'm not sure how else to put it.

And again, even if you compare schools inside the US... private schools end up with drastically better educational results, while spending almost half as much per student, than the public schools.

How are you measuring those educational results? If you are using International Test, you obviously do not know how those results are manipulated statistically to make the US appear worse than it is. Comparing the US with a large immigrant and minority population to countries with a homogeneous population is not significant.

You use data to support your position, while ignoring the same data regarding teacher salary and benefits. Hypocrisy?

That was the data on salary and benefits. I just posted it. In fact, that data I posted, was directly from a public teacher group, saying we needed to increase salaries.

As far as the international tests being manipulated... I am not opposed to that claim.....

However, even within the United States, public school results are horrific.

Several Baltimore schools report 0 students proficient in math, reading

Despite relatively high per-pupil spending, the city's schools continue to struggle.

www.educationdive.com

Several schools.... ZERO proficient in math and reading.

Zero. None. Was every single student an immigrant?

And we see how these bad schools get around the governments attempts to improve educational outcomes... but simply cheating and faking grades.

BCPS board member announced retirement weeks after alleged cheating reported

Baltimore County Public Schools is responding to a Fox45 investigation that found a sitting school board member, in 2012, was involved in an alleged cheating scandal investigation at Randallstown High School. Board Member Cheryl Pasteur still refuses to speak with Project Baltimore about her...

foxbaltimore.com

Here a person running a school, during a cheating scandal, ended up on the school board.

And even if you could somehow explain all that away, how do you explain the fact colleges have to expand remedial class, for students that come out of high school with diplomas?

In City Schools, 44 Employees Earn More than Governor

BALTIMORE (WBFF) - Can you put a price on a good teacher, principal or school superintendent? Baltimore City Schools has, to the tune of six-figure salaries.Baltimore City Schools CEO Sonja Santelises oversees 82,000 students and a $1.3 billion budget. It

foxbaltimore.com

School employees paid more than the governor.

UPDATE: Baltimore City Now America's Third Most Funded School System

foxbaltimore.com

Highest funded school system in the country.

And this isn't limited to Baltimore. That's just the most egregious example.

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www.highereducation.org

​

About one-quarter of incoming students to these institutions are fully prepared for college-level studies. The remaining 75% need remedial work in English, mathematics, or both​

75% of students show up at colleges with High School Diplomas, end up needing high school level remedial classes.

Are 75% of all the students in the country immigrants?

How do you explain that? How do you have a student that has a high school diploma that doesn't have a high school education?

Well.... it fits with the rest of the evidence. Public school students are not proficient at their grade level, and public school administrators are systematically inflating grades to pass them, and when caught nothing happens.

So obviously they are not being taught this stuff in high school, and obviously someone must be artificially increasing their grades.

And we have clear direct evidence of both.

How do you explain all of this?

I could take the time and explain it all, but you would simply ignore it and continue to revel in your ignorance and misinformation.

The best way to summarize it is to say that just because information is taught, doesn't mean that it is retained. I taught math and had students pass my unit tests with no problem. Give them a final exam and the vast majority failed, even though the same questions were used as on the unit tests. How do you explain that? They could not retain the information because their brain was filled with distractions on their cell phones.

My own daughter was a "remedial" math student when she went to college despite passing math classes through calculus in high school, graduating with honors. She then passed all of her math classes in college and received a degree in biology with honors. Explain that!

I can't. I'd love to understand that. Because when you take students from across the world, and fly them to one location, and give them a math test, students from Asian routinely do vastly better than students from America.

So what are they doing that they are able to retain it... and what are American students doing that they are not able to retain it?

If cell phones is the problem, then why are public schools not confiscating them?

What are Charter schools doing, that their students are able to retain it?

If you are telling me that the students are distracted, then why have the schools not put in place policies to eliminate those distractions? The entire point of having a school is to learn. If they fail at that, then they shouldn't be in operation.

In a Charter school, if you are fiddling with your phone, and you fail the test, you are put on academic probation. If you don't shape up, you are expelled. That is why, generally speaking, they do far better than public schools.

A: You kick the problem students out. If the student isn't going to learn, then he/she is wasting the teachers time, and likely distracting other students who would learn.

B: Plus, you give kids motivation to do well, or they never see their friends again.

This is how Japanese schools work. You don't retain the knowledge, and know your stuff, 'you out'. They kick your butt out.

So you are dead on right. I don't have answers to your questions, except something is wrong. Plan A is not working. We need a plan B.

 

[Andylusion]

Teacher's unions should be abolished.

Thank you comrade! I suppose you want the Teamsters, UMW and UAW abolished also! Communist bastard!

Unions have become that which they were formed to protect against:

Organizations that exploit workers for money.

Not sure how that's a Communist position. Pretty sure it's the complete opposite, but you do you, Skippy.

Communists oppose unions because they do not want workers to have rights of any sort. That's why you are a communist.

I don't agree with their position, but I support their right to say it.

Wow. That's stupid as hell.

Yes, you are stupid as hell! What's worse is that it is self-inflicted.

Unions are perfectly legal in this country and trying to ban them is immoral. Fix the problem because you cannot get rid of unions.

Most people do not realize that teachers are not allowed by law to strike, so what power do they have?

Teachers' unions are a Democrat money-laundering scheme and incompetent teacher protection racket. They do students no good at all.

Listen shit-for-brains! Unions don't look out for students because they are not employed as teachers. Do you think the UAW design cars? Does the UMW care about what is being mined? Does the IUEW care about power pole selection?

Goodness, you're an angry little thing. Are you an incompetent worker whose only reason for continued employment is union membership?

I retired after 21 years. I work for a defense contractor now.

Thank G-d in Heaven. We need people like you, helping keep this countries Military in shape. At this point, who knows when we'll need it.

 

[Norman]

**** the teachers' unions. Hire new teachers if union teachers refuse to work.

Even better idea, just keep them closed. I have never heard a person benefiting from public education. It's just an expensive child care where people recite Marxist bullshit.

 

[daveman]

Teacher's unions should be abolished.

Thank you comrade! I suppose you want the Teamsters, UMW and UAW abolished also! Communist bastard!

Unions have become that which they were formed to protect against:

Organizations that exploit workers for money.

Not sure how that's a Communist position. Pretty sure it's the complete opposite, but you do you, Skippy.

Communists oppose unions because they do not want workers to have rights of any sort. That's why you are a communist.

I don't agree with their position, but I support their right to say it.

Wow. That's stupid as hell.

Yes, you are stupid as hell! What's worse is that it is self-inflicted.

Unions are perfectly legal in this country and trying to ban them is immoral. Fix the problem because you cannot get rid of unions.

Most people do not realize that teachers are not allowed by law to strike, so what power do they have?

Teachers' unions are a Democrat money-laundering scheme and incompetent teacher protection racket. They do students no good at all.

Listen shit-for-brains! Unions don't look out for students because they are not employed as teachers. Do you think the UAW design cars? Does the UMW care about what is being mined? Does the IUEW care about power pole selection?

Goodness, you're an angry little thing. Are you an incompetent worker whose only reason for continued employment is union membership?

I retired after 21 years. I work for a defense contractor now.

I hope you don't have access to classified.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I hope you don't have access to classified.

STFU asshole!

 

[daveman]

STFU asshole!

Call me a Commie again. That's always hilarious.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Call me a Commie again. That's always hilarious.

When did I do that? You didn't quote it.

 

[daveman]

When did I do that? You didn't quote it.

Here, you moron.