Zone1 Kristan Hawkins Crushes Arguments Of Pro-Choicer

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

yeah, blasted family planning and a right to privacy.

Yeah, I funnily have no more respect for your euphemisms for abortion than I do when you directly refer to abortion.

But there is no Constitutional "right to privacy."

 

[hadit]

Then why are pro-life pols trying to defund a healthcare organization from providing those?

They're not, they're trying to defund an abortion organization from doing abortions. If they stopped doing abortions, no one would try to defund them. That's why your argument is false.

 

[alang1216]

What EXACTLY makes a “fertilized egg” an individual? At what moment?

Ahhhh, that is the question and it is one I don't have an exact answer to. I believe, it is NOT a zygote and it IS a baby at birth, so somewhere in between. When that fetus develops what truly makes us a unique animal in the world, a human brain, that fetus is an individual with a right to life. That brain has to have Frontal, Temporal, and Parietal lobes.

 

[alang1216]

Please stop talking about insane off-topic fictional things and stick to actual science. Thank you.

Why? I have yet to see any science from you, just claims and opinions with no support.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Ahhhh, that is the question and it is one I don't have an exact answer to.

They are already an individual organism of the species Homo sapiens at fertilization.

Anything else you say is going to be some entirely arbitrary standard.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Why? I have yet to see any science from you, just claims and opinions with no support.

Humans are not oviparous - humans do not lay eggs.

There is nothing you can correctly refer to as an “egg” post-fertilization in a viviparous species. The egg cell is gone, we do not have a large hard shell around our young containing yoke (the other definition), so you have nothing to point to.

If a Homo sapiens in the zygote stage is an “egg” somehow, there is no arbitrary point where they could somehow cease being an “egg,” and you may as well be claiming that you are an “egg.”

That is science. That is scientific thinking and application of first principles.

 

[alang1216]

They are already an individual organism of the species Homo sapiens at fertilization.

Anything else you say is going to be some entirely arbitrary standard.

Most of my standards are arbitrary but I'm hardly alone. We don't let our citizens vote until they are 18. Are they not citizens at birth? We don't let them drink or sign contracts until they are 18. Why 18 and not 17 or 19? As a society we don't feel they are developed sufficiently to attain those rights until they are 18. The same is true for a developing embryo, IMHO, they must develop to a certain point to merit legal recognition.

As I said before, science cannot always offer moral guidance. When male lions take over an new pride they will often kill the babies of previous pack leaders. That is science.

 

[alang1216]

Humans are not oviparous - humans do not lay eggs.

There is nothing you can correctly refer to as an “egg” post-fertilization in a viviparous species. The egg cell is gone, we do not have a large hard shell around our young containing yoke (the other definition), so you have nothing to point to.

If a Homo sapiens in the zygote stage is an “egg” somehow, there is no arbitrary point where they could somehow cease being an “egg,” and you may as well be claiming that you are an “egg.”

That is science. That is scientific thinking and application of first principles.

I'm not anti-semantic so I'll accept your definition of 'egg'.

 

[Pellinore]

The redhead is passionate, but not a really gifted debater. The Internet rando who posted this is just giggling along because his bias is getting confirmed.

But the brunette who sets herself up as an authority, then responds with zingers such as "Google it, you'll see" and "because the dictionary says so" is just the worst. I'm not watching that whole video but I would bet one crisp, clean American dollar that she hits more logical fallacies than she misses.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Ahhhh, that is the question and it is one I don't have an exact answer to. I believe, it is NOT a zygote and it IS a baby at birth, so somewhere in between. When that fetus develops what truly makes us a unique animal in the world, a human brain, that fetus is an individual with a right to life.

Well the problem with that stance is that it’s not only undefined, but a slippery slope. It’s not just the definition that’s important, but the reason behind it.. as the logic needs to hold up to scrutiny.

It’s like having a Facebook relationship status of “it’s complicated”… like, huh? The definition of being alive is one of the most important and most basic, as it is the basis of the most important amendment, the first one. Yet, you’re unable to even define it?

It’s like Cop A giving a ticket for speeding at 65 mph to a driver, and another Cop saying it’s totally legal… on a highway with no posted speed limit. It’s whatever the cop feels is right… which isn’t any law system that should be supported.

That brain has to have Frontal, Temporal, and Parietal lobes.

Fully formed? Actively forming? In the initial stages?

 

[alang1216]

Well the problem with that stance is that it’s not only undefined, but a slippery slope. It’s not just the definition that’s important, but the reason behind it.. as the logic needs to hold up to scrutiny.

The reason is simple. A zygote displays none of the functions that make us different from other animals, a newborn baby displays them all.

Here's a question for you, what is the difference between a zygote and a tumor cell? Why do you feel one has a right to life while the other does not?

Fully formed? Actively forming? In the initial stages?

Functional

 

[hadit]

The reason is simple. A zygote displays none of the functions that make us different from other animals, a newborn baby displays them all.

Here's a question for you, what is the difference between a zygote and a tumor cell? Why do you feel one has a right to life while the other does not?


Functional

A zygote, left alone, will naturally develop into a baby, which then naturally detaches itself from the mother's body, leaving her healthy. A tumor cell, OTOH, left alone will naturally keep reproducing until it kills its host.

Any nutcase can see that difference between them.

 

[otto105]

Yeah, I funnily have no more respect for your euphemisms for abortion than I do when you directly refer to abortion.

But there is no Constitutional "right to privacy."

Remember that conservative invention during the next pandemic or personal health crisis.

 

[otto105]

A zygote, left alone, will naturally develop into a baby, which then naturally detaches itself from the mother's body, leaving her healthy. A tumor cell, OTOH, left alone will naturally keep reproducing until it kills its host.

Any nutcase can see that difference between them.

Left on it's own?

Say what if I take the zygote out of the host and watch it develop...

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Left on it's own?

Say what if I take the zygote out of the host and watch it develop...

“Host?” Dehumanizing hateful nonsense. Ridiculous.

 

[hadit]

Left on it's own?

Say what if I take the zygote out of the host and watch it develop...

Nope, that's not leaving it alone. Just literally leave it where it is, don't try to kill it, and check back in about 9 months....

 

[hadit]

“Host?” Dehumanizing hateful nonsense. Ridiculous.

That's par for the course for pro-aborts. They have to cloak what they're talking about in rhetoric.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

The reason is simple. A zygote displays none of the functions that make us different from other animals, a newborn baby displays them all.

A newborn baby is all but an innocent, helpless, unviable human who needs direct care from others to survive. Right?

Here's a question for you, what is the difference between a zygote and a tumor cell? Why do you feel one has a right to life while the other does not?

Because if left to natural processes the zygote will become a conscious human being and a tumour will just grow larger and spread, without consciousness or traits of advanced life

Functional

when do all the lobes of the brain become “functional”? 100% functional? How do you know when that is?

And if a major brain injury to a living adult causes a lobe to not function, are they still alive in your eyes?

 

[alang1216]

A zygote, left alone, will naturally develop into a baby, which then naturally detaches itself from the mother's body, leaving her healthy. A tumor cell, OTOH, left alone will naturally keep reproducing until it kills its host.

Any nutcase can see that difference between them.

Well really a zygote left alone, without a host, will die, but I take your point. My point is that it is not important what the zygote IS but what it WILL BECOME. Once it does develops into a baby, then it has a right to life. Until then you'd need laboratory equipment to tell the difference between it and that tumor cell.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

For fuck’s sake people, humans do not need “hosts,” we are not parasites, stow your ignorance and misanthropy.