'Keep An Eye On Diyala'

[dilloduck]

are you suggesting that Americans have not been killed by members of Sadr's militia? And I understand that you don't know shit about the overall battle strategy..... you don't need to highlight that self evident fact for me.

nope-not suggesting that at all. Just pointing out that to criticize a plan without knowing it is a bit lame. There are a myriad of behind-the-scenes possiblities and for us to think we know or expect to be told all of them is presumptuos. As long as our military is actively engaging and defeating islamic crazies I'm gonna back them.

 

[maineman]

nope-not suggesting that at all. Just pointing out that to criticize a plan without knowing it is a bit lame. There are a myriad of behind-the-scenes possiblities and for us to think we know or expect to be told all of them is presumptuos. As long as our military is actively engaging and defeating islamic crazies I'm gonna back them.

I know that , from my experienced perspective, we should not be putting our forces in the midst of a sectarian civil war where both sides view us as part of the problem and not part of the solution.

As long as this administration continues to put our military in harm's way for no useful purpose while ignoring the real enemy, I am going to oppose them.

 

[dilloduck]

I know that , from my experienced perspective, we should not be putting our forces in the midst of a sectarian civil war where both sides view us as part of the problem and not part of the solution.

As long as this administration continues to put our military in harm's way for no useful purpose while ignoring the real enemy, I am going to oppose them.

You're ignorant to think we are ignoring the real enemy. In fact you are aware of the situation well enough to know that it's a lie.

 

[maineman]

You're ignorant to think we are ignoring the real enemy. In fact you are aware of the situation well enough to know that it's a lie.

bullshit. We are putting an enormous amount of men, material, munitions, and money into Iraq where our real enemy ISN'T...and very little of all of those assets into those areas and activities where our real enemy IS.

 

[dilloduck]

bullshit. We are putting an enormous amount of men, material, munitions, and money into Iraq where our real enemy ISN'T...and very little of all of those assets into those areas and activities where our real enemy IS.

I'll bite--who is our real enemy?

 

[maineman]

I'll bite--who is our real enemy?

not Iraqi civilians, that's for sure.

I would suggest that our real enemies are the wahabbist fundamentalists who attacked us....would you disagree?

 

[dilloduck]

not Iraqi civilians, that's for sure.

I would suggest that our real enemies are the wahabbist fundamentalists who attacked us....would you disagree?

I think the ones who attacked us are all dead now but if you really want to get to the core of the problem you will have to kill more than just wahabbists.

 

[maineman]

I think the ones who attacked us are all dead now but if you really want to get to the core of the problem you will have to kill more than just wahabbists.

andI think that anyone who approaches this issue by blythely expanding the list of people we need to kill really is so morally bankrupt that actual debate with them about foreign policy options is futile.

 

[dilloduck]

andI think that anyone who approaches this issue by blythely expanding the list of people we need to kill really is so morally bankrupt that actual debate with them about foreign policy options is futile.

Fine--let's negotiate with em. Set the date and the place and see how many show up to solve this "politically". Surely the democratic congress can pass a resolution aimed at just that.

 

[maineman]

Fine--let's negotiate with em. Set the date and the place and see how many show up to solve this "politically". Surely the democratic congress can pass a resolution aimed at just that.

and the only options we have are killing arabs by the truckload, or inviting them to "negotiate"? Do you want to discuss this issue or just throw out oneliners that insult my intelligence and my political affiliation?

In case you hadn't noticed, the administration has, in fact, already been sitting down with countries they previously denigrated as evil in an effort to create regional consensus to solve this by some way other than killing muslims by the truckload. I applaud those efforts.

 

[red states rule]

and the only options we have are killing arabs by the truckload, or inviting them to "negotiate"? Do you want to discuss this issue or just throw out oneliners that insult my intelligence and my political affiliation?

In case you hadn't noticed, the administration has, in fact, already been sitting down with countries they previously denigrated as evil in an effort to create regional consensus to solve this by some way other than killing muslims by the truckload. I applaud those efforts.

waving the white flag again MM?

 

[dilloduck]

and the only options we have are killing arabs by the truckload, or inviting them to "negotiate"? Do you want to discuss this issue or just throw out oneliners that insult my intelligence and my political affiliation?

In case you hadn't noticed, the administration has, in fact, already been sitting down with countries they previously denigrated as evil in an effort to create regional consensus to solve this by some way other than killing muslims by the truckload. I applaud those efforts.

I do too. Maybe our enemies are coming to thier senses after seeing the repercussions of thier attempts to continue to destabilize the entire region. You think have a powerful military force in the area might have helped them realize the error in thier ways ?

 

[maineman]

I do too. Maybe our enemies are coming to thier senses after seeing the repercussions of thier attempts to continue to destabilize the entire region. You think have a powerful military force in the area might have helped them realize the error in thier ways ?

I think the very real prospect of a regional sectarian sunni-shiite bloodbath is much more compelling than our presence. They know full well that it was our invasion/conquest/occupation and hamfisted attempts to shove democracy down Iraq's throat at the point of a gun that started this whole mess in the first place.

 

[Annie]

I think the very real prospect of a regional sectarian sunni-shiite bloodbath is much more compelling than our presence. They know full well that it was our invasion/conquest/occupation and hamfisted attempts to shove democracy down Iraq's throat at the point of a gun that started this whole mess in the first place.

That doesn't make sense, since the mantra from the left is that removing Saddam caused the problem since he was the only one tough enough to keep them from killing each other.

 

[red states rule]

Now even the Clinton News Network is starting to show signs of sanity. I guess now the libs will rant how CNN is a conservative lap dog


CNN Reporter: Artificial Iraq Deadline 'Serves Only America's Enemies'
Posted by Mark Finkelstein on March 8, 2007 - 16:08.
Something is happening on the ground in Iraq. Something that even certain representatives of the MSM can't deny. Earlier this week, as NewsBusters noted here and here, NBC's Brian Williams, reporting from Iraq, offered some unusually positive observations. Now comes this eye-opening exchange from earlier this afternoon on CNN International between host Jim Clancy and correspondent Michael Ware, also reporting from Iraq:

JIM CLANCY: "The Democrats are pressing for a deadline, be it at the end of 2007, 2008 to bring all U.S. troops home. How is that going to affect General Petraeus, the Iraqi government and the Iraqis themselves?"

MICHAEL WARE: "Well, Jim, certainly in terms of the Iraqis and the war that's being fought in the streets and the deserts of this country, I mean, what's happening over there, what the Democrats are saying about timetables may as well be happening on the planet Pluto for all that it counts, to the bloodshed and endless combat that we're seeing day in, day out. All that it does, anyone setting time frames like that without real pre-conditions, anyone trying to put artificial deadlines upon this conflict is only aiding the enemies, so-called, of America, al Qaeda and Iran. It allows them some leverage to know when to put the pressure on, to know that the clock is ticking and to know where the pressure points are.

WARE: "So, in terms of the battle, day-to-day here, General Petraeus isn't looking more forward than five or six months. He's trying to make this surge work. But in terms of the broader strategic framework, it serves only America's enemies."

Nancy & Harry, are you listening?

http://newsbusters.org/node/11288

 

[maineman]

That doesn't make sense, since the mantra from the left is that removing Saddam caused the problem since he was the only one tough enough to keep them from killing each other.

removing Saddam DID cause the problem.... that invasion/conquest/occupation initiative on our part to fulfill the PNAC vision inadvertently - although certainly NOT unexpectedly - lit the match that started this sectarian violence blazing. Neighbors of Iraq, as well as the rest of the middle east, see this conflict as having the potential to spread throughout the region... and THAT is bringing them to the table, certainly not any quaking fear of America's military might.

 

[Annie]

removing Saddam DID cause the problem.... that invasion/conquest/occupation initiative on our part to fulfill the PNAC vision inadvertently - although certainly NOT unexpectedly - lit the match that started this sectarian violence blazing. Neighbors of Iraq, as well as the rest of the middle east, see this conflict as having the potential to spread throughout the region... and THAT is bringing them to the table, certainly not any quaking fear of America's military might.

So in your opinion, the US did not start it, but rather allowed it to resurface?

 

[maineman]

So in your opinion, the US did not start it, but rather allowed it to resurface?

the enmity between sunnis and shiites has existed for a millenium. The Bush administration allowed it to resurface in Iraq by removing the one man who seemed capable of keeping a lid on that enmity, as well as keep islamic extremists out of Iraq, and keep Iran held in check to some degree....all three of those things would HELP US in this war against islamic extremism. Now that sunnis and shiites are openly slaughtering one another in Iraq, that violence has spread. The King of Jordan recently predicted that, because of the mess in Iraq, that sunni-shiite sectarian violence would spread to Lebanon and the occupied palestinian territories within a year. Aren't you so PROUD of what we have set in motion?

 

[dilloduck]

the enmity between sunnis and shiites has existed for a millenium. The Bush administration allowed it to resurface in Iraq by removing the one man who seemed capable of keeping a lid on that enmity, as well as keep islamic extremists out of Iraq, and keep Iran held in check to some degree....all three of those things would HELP US in this war against islamic extremism. Now that sunnis and shiites are openly slaughtering one another in Iraq, that violence has spread. The King of Jordan recently predicted that, because of the mess in Iraq, that sunni-shiite sectarian violence would spread to Lebanon and the occupied palestinian territories within a year. Aren't you so PROUD of what we have set in motion?

They can stop killing any time they want--for a guy who hates killing you sure seem to give these wackos a pass.

 

[Annie]

the enmity between sunnis and shiites has existed for a millenium. The Bush administration allowed it to resurface in Iraq by removing the one man who seemed capable of keeping a lid on that enmity, as well as keep islamic extremists out of Iraq, and keep Iran held in check to some degree....all three of those things would HELP US in this war against islamic extremism. Now that sunnis and shiites are openly slaughtering one another in Iraq, that violence has spread. The King of Jordan recently predicted that, because of the mess in Iraq, that sunni-shiite sectarian violence would spread to Lebanon and the occupied palestinian territories within a year. Aren't you so PROUD of what we have set in motion?

Proud? Hmm. Not the terminology I'd use today. Maybe in 30 or 50 years it might apply. On the other hand, if your premise is correct, it was only a matter of time-Saddam, like Tito could not live forever. (Did you hear, speaking of Tito, that the UN has decided to step in and make decisions on that quagmire?)

What we may have inadvertently done, is start the reformation process in Islam, time will tell. In the meantime, if things on the ground do go better which we've established we both hope for, then perhaps if nothing else, we will be in a better position if anything else should pop up in the Middle East.