Karakoram Glaciers EXPANDING!!!

[Old Rocks]

Show us one oil corperation that is profiting at the rate of billions of dollars quarterly that is not taking taxpayer money.

I think they sell their products to tax payers.

I am buying electricity produced by wind and hydro. I am a taxpayer.

 

[Old Rocks]

"At what cost?"



Katyusha! went right over your head huh?

Renewable energy is a growth industry of the profit making kind, funded primarily via private investment -- you got problem with that?


Cost? -- ROI, dude/dudette.

Please, please show us TWO profitable renewable energy companies that don't recieve one dime from the taxpayers....ON ANY CONTINENT. Good luck.

West..........until now, I never thought we'd see a board member come in here who was more beyond gone than Chris. But you realize......if they are out there, eventually, the most nutty of the nutty-asses find this place. Like Chris, this guy really believes his own shit............but the rest of the world knows renewbles go belly up without lots and lots of public monies. And the bottom line is, the arguments for renewables are dead in this country. Shit......even Salon Magazine of all places is now talking about it!! Check it out West.......maybe the best article Ive found in recent years that sums up the reality of where this debate is right now and moving forward. I call it Realville..................the poop>>> Everything you've heard about fossil fuels may be wrong - Energy - Salon.com


None of these assholes have their feet on the ground................

Reality. Wind, from 2.5 gw in 1999 to 46.9 gw in 2011.

Reality. Solar capacity increased by 60% in residential, and 400% in commercial in 2010.

 

[skookerasbil]

Please, please show us TWO profitable renewable energy companies that don't recieve one dime from the taxpayers....ON ANY CONTINENT. Good luck.

West..........until now, I never thought we'd see a board member come in here who was more beyond gone than Chris. But you realize......if they are out there, eventually, the most nutty of the nutty-asses find this place. Like Chris, this guy really believes his own shit............but the rest of the world knows renewbles go belly up without lots and lots of public monies. And the bottom line is, the arguments for renewables are dead in this country. Shit......even Salon Magazine of all places is now talking about it!! Check it out West.......maybe the best article Ive found in recent years that sums up the reality of where this debate is right now and moving forward. I call it Realville..................the poop>>> Everything you've heard about fossil fuels may be wrong - Energy - Salon.com


None of these assholes have their feet on the ground................

Reality. Wind, from 2.5 gw in 1999 to 46.9 gw in 2011.

Reality. Solar capacity increased by 60% in residential, and 400% in commercial in 2010.

yeah Ray....but it is always about the "As compared to what?" question.

 

[westwall]

Please, please show us TWO profitable renewable energy companies that don't recieve one dime from the taxpayers....ON ANY CONTINENT. Good luck.

West..........until now, I never thought we'd see a board member come in here who was more beyond gone than Chris. But you realize......if they are out there, eventually, the most nutty of the nutty-asses find this place. Like Chris, this guy really believes his own shit............but the rest of the world knows renewbles go belly up without lots and lots of public monies. And the bottom line is, the arguments for renewables are dead in this country. Shit......even Salon Magazine of all places is now talking about it!! Check it out West.......maybe the best article Ive found in recent years that sums up the reality of where this debate is right now and moving forward. I call it Realville..................the poop>>> Everything you've heard about fossil fuels may be wrong - Energy - Salon.com


None of these assholes have their feet on the ground................

Reality. Wind, from 2.5 gw in 1999 to 46.9 gw in 2011.

Reality. Solar capacity increased by 60% in residential, and 400% in commercial in 2010.

And wind is producing what percentage of the US's electrical needs? 2% if you're lucky? Solar is STILL UNDER 2% even with all of that growth. And that power costs more per kwh than from a fossil fuel source, and the systems will wear out in 20 years or less. What has been the success rate for your vaunted wind power here in Nevada????? Oh, yeah not too good.

Take a looky here, the city of Reno invested 416,000 TAXPAYER DOLLARS into wind turbines. So far that investment has netted 2,800 in savings.

So MENSA BOY, how many years will it take to pay off that 416,000 dollars? Here's a clue....it's almost half as long as this country has been around. And you think that's a good investment?

"A year later, however, Hamilton’s warning appears to have been spot on.

The electricity produced by NV Energy’s $46 million wind rebate program has fallen far short of expectations.
In a startling example, the city of Reno’s wind turbines — for which the city received more than $150,000 in rate-payer funded rebates — produced dramatically less electricity than the manufacturers of its turbines promised.

“These manufacturers, when they gave us the turbines, they said they were designed to be mounted on a parapet at this height, and that’s what we did,” said Jason Geddes, who runs the city of Reno’s renewable energy program. “But when we started getting actual wind flow patterns, we realized their claims were wrong.”

As first reported by the Reno Gazette-Journal, one turbine that cost the city $21,000 to install saved the city $4 on its energy bill. Overall, $416,000 worth of turbines have netted the city $2,800 in energy savings."



NV Energy windmill program generates rebates, little electricity - Friday, March 30, 2012 | 2 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

 

[Star]

"At what cost?"



Katyusha! went right over your head huh?

Renewable energy is a growth industry of the profit making kind, funded primarily via private investment -- you got problem with that?


Cost? -- ROI, dude/dudette.

Please, please show us TWO profitable renewable energy companies that don't recieve one dime from the taxpayers....ON ANY CONTINENT. Good luck.

West..........until now, I never thought we'd see a board member come in here who was more beyond gone than Chris. But you realize......if they are out there, eventually, the most nutty of the nutty-asses find this place. Like Chris, this guy really believes his own shit............but the rest of the world knows renewbles go belly up without lots and lots of public monies. And the bottom line is, the arguments for renewables are dead in this country. Shit......even Salon Magazine of all places is now talking about it!! Check it out West.......maybe the best article Ive found in recent years that sums up the reality of where this debate is right now and moving forward. I call it Realville..................the poop>>> Everything you've heard about fossil fuels may be wrong - Energy - Salon.com


None of these assholes have their feet on the ground................

To members of the Republican -do-nothing- party, you make perfect sense -- but for the rest of us, we believe in working to solve recognizable problems pre-emptively. Did you miss out on investing in Microsoft too, cuz you didn't want to support those nerdy fooking liberals?






As climate change and clean energy have become first-tier political issues, many otherwise smart people who know precious little about either subject are suddenly making pronouncements on both as if they were opining on who should win American Idol.

A case in point is Michael Lind, whose title is “policy director of the economic growth program at the New America Foundation,” though as we’ll see, his ideas make it sound more like an Old America Foundation and make him sound more like Dr. Doolittle.

Ironically, while the “think small” centrists help undermine the political consensus for even modest climate action, every year we delay ensures that when we do act to address global warming, we will have to think very, very big. As the executive director of the International Energy Agency said last year, “we need to act urgently and now. Every year of delay adds an extra USD 500 billion to the investment needed between 2010 and 2030 in the energy sector”.

<snip>

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right...

... ever'thin' gonna ice over...

... an' den we all gonna freeze to death."

 

[Old Rocks]

West..........until now, I never thought we'd see a board member come in here who was more beyond gone than Chris. But you realize......if they are out there, eventually, the most nutty of the nutty-asses find this place. Like Chris, this guy really believes his own shit............but the rest of the world knows renewbles go belly up without lots and lots of public monies. And the bottom line is, the arguments for renewables are dead in this country. Shit......even Salon Magazine of all places is now talking about it!! Check it out West.......maybe the best article Ive found in recent years that sums up the reality of where this debate is right now and moving forward. I call it Realville..................the poop>>> Everything you've heard about fossil fuels may be wrong - Energy - Salon.com


None of these assholes have their feet on the ground................

Reality. Wind, from 2.5 gw in 1999 to 46.9 gw in 2011.

Reality. Solar capacity increased by 60% in residential, and 400% in commercial in 2010.

And wind is producing what percentage of the US's electrical needs? 2% if you're lucky? Solar is STILL UNDER 2% even with all of that growth. And that power costs more per kwh than from a fossil fuel source, and the systems will wear out in 20 years or less. What has been the success rate for your vaunted wind power here in Nevada????? Oh, yeah not too good.

Take a looky here, the city of Reno invested 416,000 TAXPAYER DOLLARS into wind turbines. So far that investment has netted 2,800 in savings.

So MENSA BOY, how many years will it take to pay off that 416,000 dollars? Here's a clue....it's almost half as long as this country has been around. And you think that's a good investment?

"A year later, however, Hamilton’s warning appears to have been spot on.

The electricity produced by NV Energy’s $46 million wind rebate program has fallen far short of expectations.
In a startling example, the city of Reno’s wind turbines — for which the city received more than $150,000 in rate-payer funded rebates — produced dramatically less electricity than the manufacturers of its turbines promised.

“These manufacturers, when they gave us the turbines, they said they were designed to be mounted on a parapet at this height, and that’s what we did,” said Jason Geddes, who runs the city of Reno’s renewable energy program. “But when we started getting actual wind flow patterns, we realized their claims were wrong.”

As first reported by the Reno Gazette-Journal, one turbine that cost the city $21,000 to install saved the city $4 on its energy bill. Overall, $416,000 worth of turbines have netted the city $2,800 in energy savings."



NV Energy windmill program generates rebates, little electricity - Friday, March 30, 2012 | 2 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

In other words, there wasn't the wind at the point the turbines were mounted. Kind of like building a water turbine where there is not the flow it was designed for, then saying hydro is not an effective means of generating electricity. But the kind of nonsense we have come to expect from Walleyes.

 

[KissMy]

Yes, you are correct. Until their home is directly affected. Until there is a catastrophe suitably large enough to get their attention. You don't realize how close we were to that last summer when the Missouri and Mississippi were flooding. Some of the upper dams on the Missouri were very close to failing. Spillways taking five times the amount of water that they were designed for, and the concrete in them starting to chunk out. The dams are earth fill, the entire length of the Missouri and Mississippi, and, had one of the upper ones failed, all the dams below would have failed.

But we got through that one by the skin of our teeth. And everybody has already forgotten that.

The Mississippi River Valley is many miles wide for a reason. Having the US Corp of Engineers restrict it with levies to just over a mile wide & stacking the water up high with 30 dams is just inviting a mega disaster.

 

[westwall]

Please, please show us TWO profitable renewable energy companies that don't recieve one dime from the taxpayers....ON ANY CONTINENT. Good luck.

West..........until now, I never thought we'd see a board member come in here who was more beyond gone than Chris. But you realize......if they are out there, eventually, the most nutty of the nutty-asses find this place. Like Chris, this guy really believes his own shit............but the rest of the world knows renewbles go belly up without lots and lots of public monies. And the bottom line is, the arguments for renewables are dead in this country. Shit......even Salon Magazine of all places is now talking about it!! Check it out West.......maybe the best article Ive found in recent years that sums up the reality of where this debate is right now and moving forward. I call it Realville..................the poop>>> Everything you've heard about fossil fuels may be wrong - Energy - Salon.com


None of these assholes have their feet on the ground................

To members of the Republican -do-nothing- party, you make perfect sense -- but for the rest of us, we believe in working to solve recognizable problems pre-emptively. Did you miss out on investing in Microsoft too, cuz you didn't want to support those nerdy fooking liberals?






As climate change and clean energy have become first-tier political issues, many otherwise smart people who know precious little about either subject are suddenly making pronouncements on both as if they were opining on who should win American Idol.

A case in point is Michael Lind, whose title is “policy director of the economic growth program at the New America Foundation,” though as we’ll see, his ideas make it sound more like an Old America Foundation and make him sound more like Dr. Doolittle.

Ironically, while the “think small” centrists help undermine the political consensus for even modest climate action, every year we delay ensures that when we do act to address global warming, we will have to think very, very big. As the executive director of the International Energy Agency said last year, “we need to act urgently and now. Every year of delay adds an extra USD 500 billion to the investment needed between 2010 and 2030 in the energy sector”.

<snip>

No, you don't. You have the misbegotten belief that throwing good money down a rathole is somehow noble and good. You ignore the fact that the "green" products and technologies actually do more environmental damage than the problems they are supposedly trying to fix.

You somehow think that 100 year old failed technologies are somehow "advanced" thinking. Here's a hint they're not. They are 100 years old and they failed then and they are unsurprisingly failing now. The EV's of a 100 years ago had the same range as the EV's of today. Imagine that. Your supposed advanced solutions are more damaging to the environment and they have progressed nowhere in 100 years. That is failure on an epic level.

Here's something that us educated types would like to see. Real research on real advanced electrical transmission technologies that use the Earths magnetic fields thus doing away with the need for wasteful transmission lines. This would have the secondary effect of actually making EV's viable.

Serious research into fusion technologies. Instead you clowns wish to try and use windmills. Here's a history lesson for you, windmills aren't "new". They date to the 1,100's. They work very well for grinding wheat and other low impact type jobs. They are terribly inefficient for the generation of electricity. If they were usable they wouldn't need continuous infusions of taxpayer money to stay afloat. But hey that's common sense and as we have seen you folks don't do common sense, you think hundreds year old technology is somehow advanced and forward thinking.

Yep, we're the dinosaurs and you're the forward thinkers

 

[westwall]

Reality. Wind, from 2.5 gw in 1999 to 46.9 gw in 2011.

Reality. Solar capacity increased by 60% in residential, and 400% in commercial in 2010.

And wind is producing what percentage of the US's electrical needs? 2% if you're lucky? Solar is STILL UNDER 2% even with all of that growth. And that power costs more per kwh than from a fossil fuel source, and the systems will wear out in 20 years or less. What has been the success rate for your vaunted wind power here in Nevada????? Oh, yeah not too good.

Take a looky here, the city of Reno invested 416,000 TAXPAYER DOLLARS into wind turbines. So far that investment has netted 2,800 in savings.

So MENSA BOY, how many years will it take to pay off that 416,000 dollars? Here's a clue....it's almost half as long as this country has been around. And you think that's a good investment?

"A year later, however, Hamilton’s warning appears to have been spot on.

The electricity produced by NV Energy’s $46 million wind rebate program has fallen far short of expectations.
In a startling example, the city of Reno’s wind turbines — for which the city received more than $150,000 in rate-payer funded rebates — produced dramatically less electricity than the manufacturers of its turbines promised.

“These manufacturers, when they gave us the turbines, they said they were designed to be mounted on a parapet at this height, and that’s what we did,” said Jason Geddes, who runs the city of Reno’s renewable energy program. “But when we started getting actual wind flow patterns, we realized their claims were wrong.”

As first reported by the Reno Gazette-Journal, one turbine that cost the city $21,000 to install saved the city $4 on its energy bill. Overall, $416,000 worth of turbines have netted the city $2,800 in energy savings."



NV Energy windmill program generates rebates, little electricity - Friday, March 30, 2012 | 2 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

In other words, there wasn't the wind at the point the turbines were mounted. Kind of like building a water turbine where there is not the flow it was designed for, then saying hydro is not an effective means of generating electricity. But the kind of nonsense we have come to expect from Walleyes.

Yeah sure silly person. The WINDMILL specialists made claims that were completely RIDICULOUS. Not me, not sceptics your people made claims and then unsurprisingly FAILED to deliver.

You have a history of that. Failure I mean. Must suck to be wrong for 30 years in a row.

 

[westwall]

Yes, you are correct. Until their home is directly affected. Until there is a catastrophe suitably large enough to get their attention. You don't realize how close we were to that last summer when the Missouri and Mississippi were flooding. Some of the upper dams on the Missouri were very close to failing. Spillways taking five times the amount of water that they were designed for, and the concrete in them starting to chunk out. The dams are earth fill, the entire length of the Missouri and Mississippi, and, had one of the upper ones failed, all the dams below would have failed.

But we got through that one by the skin of our teeth. And everybody has already forgotten that.

The Mississippi River Valley is many miles wide for a reason. Having the US Corp of Engineers restrict it with levies to just over a mile wide & stacking the water up high with 30 dams is just inviting a mega disaster.

Indeed, the Mississippi river flood plain is 200 miles wide for much of its length.

 

[KissMy]

Yes, you are correct. Until their home is directly affected. Until there is a catastrophe suitably large enough to get their attention. You don't realize how close we were to that last summer when the Missouri and Mississippi were flooding. Some of the upper dams on the Missouri were very close to failing. Spillways taking five times the amount of water that they were designed for, and the concrete in them starting to chunk out. The dams are earth fill, the entire length of the Missouri and Mississippi, and, had one of the upper ones failed, all the dams below would have failed.

But we got through that one by the skin of our teeth. And everybody has already forgotten that.

The Mississippi River Valley is many miles wide for a reason. Having the US Corp of Engineers restrict it with levies to just over a mile wide & stacking the water up high with 30 dams is just inviting a mega disaster.

Indeed, the Mississippi river flood plain is 200 miles wide for much of its length.

National Review: Global Warming Is Not Causing the Mississippi Floods

 

[KissMy]

National Review: China’s Electric Car Industry Failing

Beijing is scaling back its ambitions, chastened by technological hurdles and lack of buyer interest. Developers have yet to achieve breakthroughs and will be lucky to sell 2,000 cars this year, mostly taxis

 

[bripat9643]

Reality. Wind, from 2.5 gw in 1999 to 46.9 gw in 2011.

Reality. Solar capacity increased by 60% in residential, and 400% in commercial in 2010.

What percentage of that didn't receive government subsidies?

 

[skookerasbil]

Please, please show us TWO profitable renewable energy companies that don't recieve one dime from the taxpayers....ON ANY CONTINENT. Good luck.

West..........until now, I never thought we'd see a board member come in here who was more beyond gone than Chris. But you realize......if they are out there, eventually, the most nutty of the nutty-asses find this place. Like Chris, this guy really believes his own shit............but the rest of the world knows renewbles go belly up without lots and lots of public monies. And the bottom line is, the arguments for renewables are dead in this country. Shit......even Salon Magazine of all places is now talking about it!! Check it out West.......maybe the best article Ive found in recent years that sums up the reality of where this debate is right now and moving forward. I call it Realville..................the poop>>> Everything you've heard about fossil fuels may be wrong - Energy - Salon.com


None of these assholes have their feet on the ground................

To members of the Republican -do-nothing- party, you make perfect sense -- but for the rest of us, we believe in working to solve recognizable problems pre-emptively. Did you miss out on investing in Microsoft too, cuz you didn't want to support those nerdy fooking liberals?






As climate change and clean energy have become first-tier political issues, many otherwise smart people who know precious little about either subject are suddenly making pronouncements on both as if they were opining on who should win American Idol.

A case in point is Michael Lind, whose title is &#8220;policy director of the economic growth program at the New America Foundation,&#8221; though as we&#8217;ll see, his ideas make it sound more like an Old America Foundation and make him sound more like Dr. Doolittle.

Ironically, while the &#8220;think small&#8221; centrists help undermine the political consensus for even modest climate action, every year we delay ensures that when we do act to address global warming, we will have to think very, very big. As the executive director of the International Energy Agency said last year, &#8220;we need to act urgently and now. Every year of delay adds an extra USD 500 billion to the investment needed between 2010 and 2030 in the energy sector&#8221;.

<snip>

Which is EXACTLY why there are bumper stickers that say, "Liberalism is a mental disorder". To the liberal, all problems should have a solution. This, of course, is absurd and the fundemental fuckedupedness in the thought processing of the liberal. ( and thank God for all of us, they represent far less than 20% of the public). Specifically, the fact that liberals do not posess the ability to understand that many, many problems are about understanding necessary tradeoffs ( ie: the bozo on this thread who doesnt bat an eyelash when proposing spending 76 trillion dollars based upon a rise in sea level of .02 centimenters..............like going down to the corner store and buying a stick of gum)

Nobody explains it better than this guy.....................

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KHdhrNhh88&feature=related]The Difference Between Liberal and Conservative - YouTube[/ame]

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[code1211]

Show us one oil corperation that is profiting at the rate of billions of dollars quarterly that is not taking taxpayer money.

I think they sell their products to tax payers.

I am buying electricity produced by wind and hydro. I am a taxpayer.

Have you ever purchased a fossil fuel or owned anything made of plastic? Like a computer?

The point being, of course oil corporations get their money from tax payers. Unlike the government, though, they actually provide value for the dollars spent.

 

[code1211]

Please, please show us TWO profitable renewable energy companies that don't recieve one dime from the taxpayers....ON ANY CONTINENT. Good luck.

West..........until now, I never thought we'd see a board member come in here who was more beyond gone than Chris. But you realize......if they are out there, eventually, the most nutty of the nutty-asses find this place. Like Chris, this guy really believes his own shit............but the rest of the world knows renewbles go belly up without lots and lots of public monies. And the bottom line is, the arguments for renewables are dead in this country. Shit......even Salon Magazine of all places is now talking about it!! Check it out West.......maybe the best article Ive found in recent years that sums up the reality of where this debate is right now and moving forward. I call it Realville..................the poop>>> Everything you've heard about fossil fuels may be wrong - Energy - Salon.com


None of these assholes have their feet on the ground................

To members of the Republican -do-nothing- party, you make perfect sense -- but for the rest of us, we believe in working to solve recognizable problems pre-emptively. Did you miss out on investing in Microsoft too, cuz you didn't want to support those nerdy fooking liberals?






As climate change and clean energy have become first-tier political issues, many otherwise smart people who know precious little about either subject are suddenly making pronouncements on both as if they were opining on who should win American Idol.

A case in point is Michael Lind, whose title is “policy director of the economic growth program at the New America Foundation,” though as we’ll see, his ideas make it sound more like an Old America Foundation and make him sound more like Dr. Doolittle.

Ironically, while the “think small” centrists help undermine the political consensus for even modest climate action, every year we delay ensures that when we do act to address global warming, we will have to think very, very big. As the executive director of the International Energy Agency said last year, “we need to act urgently and now. Every year of delay adds an extra USD 500 billion to the investment needed between 2010 and 2030 in the energy sector”.

<snip>

How much money did Microsoft receive in Government subsidies prior to it becoming profitable?

Why is it that a Liberal cannot understand that if something is needed and efficient, a government subsidy is not needed. If it is so poorly conceived and so ignored by the buying public that it cannot exist on its own value, it might mean that it's not needed.

Every year of delay reduces the money wasted on technology that is daily shown to be wastefully inefficient.

 

[code1211]

Reality. Wind, from 2.5 gw in 1999 to 46.9 gw in 2011.

Reality. Solar capacity increased by 60% in residential, and 400% in commercial in 2010.

And wind is producing what percentage of the US's electrical needs? 2% if you're lucky? Solar is STILL UNDER 2% even with all of that growth. And that power costs more per kwh than from a fossil fuel source, and the systems will wear out in 20 years or less. What has been the success rate for your vaunted wind power here in Nevada????? Oh, yeah not too good.

Take a looky here, the city of Reno invested 416,000 TAXPAYER DOLLARS into wind turbines. So far that investment has netted 2,800 in savings.

So MENSA BOY, how many years will it take to pay off that 416,000 dollars? Here's a clue....it's almost half as long as this country has been around. And you think that's a good investment?

"A year later, however, Hamilton’s warning appears to have been spot on.

The electricity produced by NV Energy’s $46 million wind rebate program has fallen far short of expectations.
In a startling example, the city of Reno’s wind turbines — for which the city received more than $150,000 in rate-payer funded rebates — produced dramatically less electricity than the manufacturers of its turbines promised.

“These manufacturers, when they gave us the turbines, they said they were designed to be mounted on a parapet at this height, and that’s what we did,” said Jason Geddes, who runs the city of Reno’s renewable energy program. “But when we started getting actual wind flow patterns, we realized their claims were wrong.”

As first reported by the Reno Gazette-Journal, one turbine that cost the city $21,000 to install saved the city $4 on its energy bill. Overall, $416,000 worth of turbines have netted the city $2,800 in energy savings."



NV Energy windmill program generates rebates, little electricity - Friday, March 30, 2012 | 2 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

In other words, there wasn't the wind at the point the turbines were mounted. Kind of like building a water turbine where there is not the flow it was designed for, then saying hydro is not an effective means of generating electricity. But the kind of nonsense we have come to expect from Walleyes.

They don't work when installed and used as the manufacturer suggests and then you say that the buyer is at fault for buying the failed device and using it as directed?

This is Liberalism, folks.

 

[code1211]

Like I said West......to the far left, there is no such thing as having to answer the question, "At what cost?". Invariably, it is a non-issue. Its actually fascinating to me on some level!! These people are not at all intellectually challenged, however, somehow, the thought processing gets muddled..........and there is a world of difference between the two. Most of the population possess the abilty to weigh necessary tradeoffs in life........but not these people. This 76 trillion non-issue is a perfect example..........thinking its a perfectly viable option.

"At what cost?"



Katyusha! went right over your head huh?

Renewable energy is a growth industry of the profit making kind, funded primarily via private investment -- you got problem with that?


Cost? -- ROI, dude/dudette.

If this is the case, then why is the government subsidizing the portion of the industry that is not profitable, not privately funded and not a growth industry.