Just how much did Trump shave off the cost of the F-35 JSF?

[usmbguest5318]

Short answer...I have no idea and Trump, as usual, isn't saying.

What I do know is that the cost of the thing has been decreasing years.



The first JSFs (ca. 2007) cost about $280M each in today's money. Now, they are about $100M each. Even before Trump's "pow wow" with Lockheed, projections were the planes would price around $85 each.

The Navy and Marine variants have features that make them more expensive than the "standard" Air Force version.

Of his meeting with Trump, Lockheed's CEO said they discussed how the Pentagon's buying the planes in bulk (ordering planes for multiple years instead of X-many this year and deciding how many more to buy next year when the time comes) would let Lockheed cut the price even more. That idea was proposed to Pentagon officials prior to Trump's being elected and they liked it; however, members of Congress, notably Senator McCain, didn't care for it, so no go. The CEO didn't indicate how much below $85M a bulk buy would lower the price.

Trump can no more make Congress approve the appropriation for a bulk buy than could Obama. Maybe, however, since Trump is a Republican, Congress'll go with it to make him look good? Who knows?

Source

 

[frigidweirdo]

Short answer...I have no idea and Trump, as usual, isn't saying.

What I do know is that the cost of the thing has been decreasing years.



The first JSFs (ca. 2007) cost about $280M each in today's money. Now, they are about $100M each. Even before Trump's "pow wow" with Lockheed, projections were the planes would price around $85 each.

The Navy and Marine variants have features that make them more expensive than the "standard" Air Force version.

Of his meeting with Trump, Lockheed's CEO said they discussed how the Pentagon's buying the planes in bulk (ordering planes for multiple years instead of X-many this year and deciding how many more to buy next year when the time comes) would let Lockheed cut the price even more. That idea was proposed to Pentagon officials prior to Trump's being elected and they liked it; however, members of Congress, notably Senator McCain, didn't care for it, so no go. The CEO didn't indicate how much below $85M a bulk buy would lower the price.

Trump can no more make Congress approve the appropriation for a bulk buy than could Obama. Maybe, however, since Trump is a Republican, Congress'll go with it to make him look good? Who knows?

Source

Trump is going to spend his whole presidency telling us how great he is, even if it wasn't him. But then, this is what politicians do, and some people can see through it like glass, and other people see through it like stone.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Short answer...I have no idea and Trump, as usual, isn't saying.

What I do know is that the cost of the thing has been decreasing years.



The first JSFs (ca. 2007) cost about $280M each in today's money. Now, they are about $100M each. Even before Trump's "pow wow" with Lockheed, projections were the planes would price around $85 each.

The Navy and Marine variants have features that make them more expensive than the "standard" Air Force version.

Of his meeting with Trump, Lockheed's CEO said they discussed how the Pentagon's buying the planes in bulk (ordering planes for multiple years instead of X-many this year and deciding how many more to buy next year when the time comes) would let Lockheed cut the price even more. That idea was proposed to Pentagon officials prior to Trump's being elected and they liked it; however, members of Congress, notably Senator McCain, didn't care for it, so no go. The CEO didn't indicate how much below $85M a bulk buy would lower the price.

Trump can no more make Congress approve the appropriation for a bulk buy than could Obama. Maybe, however, since Trump is a Republican, Congress'll go with it to make him look good? Who knows?

Source

Trump is going to spend his whole presidency telling us how great he is, even if it wasn't him. But then, this is what politicians do, and some people can see through it like glass, and other people see through it like stone.

You're probably right, but what has that to do with the damn plane and the value of savings Trump garnered? The man can talk all he wants; he loves to talk, mostly about himself. I don't care about that here; I care about measurable results. If he's saving taxpayers money, I want to know how much and how "how much" was calculated.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Short answer...I have no idea and Trump, as usual, isn't saying.

What I do know is that the cost of the thing has been decreasing years.



The first JSFs (ca. 2007) cost about $280M each in today's money. Now, they are about $100M each. Even before Trump's "pow wow" with Lockheed, projections were the planes would price around $85 each.

The Navy and Marine variants have features that make them more expensive than the "standard" Air Force version.

Of his meeting with Trump, Lockheed's CEO said they discussed how the Pentagon's buying the planes in bulk (ordering planes for multiple years instead of X-many this year and deciding how many more to buy next year when the time comes) would let Lockheed cut the price even more. That idea was proposed to Pentagon officials prior to Trump's being elected and they liked it; however, members of Congress, notably Senator McCain, didn't care for it, so no go. The CEO didn't indicate how much below $85M a bulk buy would lower the price.

Trump can no more make Congress approve the appropriation for a bulk buy than could Obama. Maybe, however, since Trump is a Republican, Congress'll go with it to make him look good? Who knows?

Source

Trump is going to spend his whole presidency telling us how great he is, even if it wasn't him. But then, this is what politicians do, and some people can see through it like glass, and other people see through it like stone.

You're probably right, but what has that to do with the damn plane and the value of savings Trump garnered? The man can talk all he wants; he loves to talk, mostly about himself. I don't care about that here; I care about measurable results. If he's saving taxpayers money, I want to know how much and how "how much" was calculated.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

How much is the plane worth? Depends on how many wars the US goes to, I guess.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Short answer...I have no idea and Trump, as usual, isn't saying.

What I do know is that the cost of the thing has been decreasing years.



The first JSFs (ca. 2007) cost about $280M each in today's money. Now, they are about $100M each. Even before Trump's "pow wow" with Lockheed, projections were the planes would price around $85 each.

The Navy and Marine variants have features that make them more expensive than the "standard" Air Force version.

Of his meeting with Trump, Lockheed's CEO said they discussed how the Pentagon's buying the planes in bulk (ordering planes for multiple years instead of X-many this year and deciding how many more to buy next year when the time comes) would let Lockheed cut the price even more. That idea was proposed to Pentagon officials prior to Trump's being elected and they liked it; however, members of Congress, notably Senator McCain, didn't care for it, so no go. The CEO didn't indicate how much below $85M a bulk buy would lower the price.

Trump can no more make Congress approve the appropriation for a bulk buy than could Obama. Maybe, however, since Trump is a Republican, Congress'll go with it to make him look good? Who knows?

Source

Trump is going to spend his whole presidency telling us how great he is, even if it wasn't him. But then, this is what politicians do, and some people can see through it like glass, and other people see through it like stone.

You're probably right, but what has that to do with the damn plane and the value of savings Trump garnered? The man can talk all he wants; he loves to talk, mostly about himself. I don't care about that here; I care about measurable results. If he's saving taxpayers money, I want to know how much and how "how much" was calculated.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

How much is the plane worth? Depends on how many wars the US goes to, I guess.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

That so many people don't care and only do care upon being told what qualitative conclusion they should hold is a major part of why I fully embrace the theme (if not the "letter") of this statement from 1965:

If I were myself a constituent of the community of Mississippi at this moment, what I would do is vote to lift the standards of the vote to disqualify 65% of the white people who are presently voting."
-- William F. Buckley, Jr. explaining what is the root cause of black disenfranchisement in MS
​

Indifference, sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity pervade too much of the electorate's collective mind. Now that wouldn't be such a terrible thing if those people didn't vote, but those f*ckers do vote. Truly, it's infuriating to people who do care and who do bother to find out "what's what" and whether what our leaders tell us aligns with what is actually so.

I mean really. Why does "Joe Plumber" need to be told the plane costs too much or is being bought at a good price? Tell "Joe" this is the price and let him figure out what that money's getting him. Then he doesn't need to be told that it's expensive or cheap or fairly priced. He also then doesn't need to know whether Dems, Reps, Libs, etc. think it's cheap, etc. He just needs to know what the decision makers plan to do; their party affiliation really doesn't matter if "Joe" has come to his own conclusion. But, we have too many "Joes" who want someone else to do their thinking and analysis for them and simply tell "Joe" what to think.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Short answer...I have no idea and Trump, as usual, isn't saying.

What I do know is that the cost of the thing has been decreasing years.



The first JSFs (ca. 2007) cost about $280M each in today's money. Now, they are about $100M each. Even before Trump's "pow wow" with Lockheed, projections were the planes would price around $85 each.

The Navy and Marine variants have features that make them more expensive than the "standard" Air Force version.

Of his meeting with Trump, Lockheed's CEO said they discussed how the Pentagon's buying the planes in bulk (ordering planes for multiple years instead of X-many this year and deciding how many more to buy next year when the time comes) would let Lockheed cut the price even more. That idea was proposed to Pentagon officials prior to Trump's being elected and they liked it; however, members of Congress, notably Senator McCain, didn't care for it, so no go. The CEO didn't indicate how much below $85M a bulk buy would lower the price.

Trump can no more make Congress approve the appropriation for a bulk buy than could Obama. Maybe, however, since Trump is a Republican, Congress'll go with it to make him look good? Who knows?

Source

Trump is going to spend his whole presidency telling us how great he is, even if it wasn't him. But then, this is what politicians do, and some people can see through it like glass, and other people see through it like stone.

You're probably right, but what has that to do with the damn plane and the value of savings Trump garnered? The man can talk all he wants; he loves to talk, mostly about himself. I don't care about that here; I care about measurable results. If he's saving taxpayers money, I want to know how much and how "how much" was calculated.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

How much is the plane worth? Depends on how many wars the US goes to, I guess.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

That so many people don't care and only do care upon being told what qualitative conclusion they should hold is a major part of why I fully embrace the theme (if not the "letter") of this statement from 1965:

If I were myself a constituent of the community of Mississippi at this moment, what I would do is vote to lift the standards of the vote to disqualify 65% of the white people who are presently voting."
-- William F. Buckley, Jr. explaining what is the root cause of black disenfranchisement in MS
​

Indifference, sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity pervade too much of the electorate's collective mind. Now that wouldn't be such a terrible thing if those people didn't vote, but those f*ckers do vote. Truly, it's infuriating to people who do care and who do bother to find out "what's what" and whether what our leaders tell us aligns with what is actually so.

I mean really. Why does "Joe Plumber" need to be told the plane costs too much or is being bought at a good price? Tell "Joe" this is the price and let him figure out what that money's getting him. Then he doesn't need to be told that it's expensive or cheap or fairly priced. He also then doesn't need to know whether Dems, Reps, Libs, etc. think it's cheap, etc. He just needs to know what the decision makers plan to do; their party affiliation really doesn't matter if "Joe" has come to his own conclusion. But, we have too many "Joes" who want someone else to do their thinking and analysis for them and simply tell "Joe" what to think.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Short answer...I have no idea and Trump, as usual, isn't saying.

What I do know is that the cost of the thing has been decreasing years.



The first JSFs (ca. 2007) cost about $280M each in today's money. Now, they are about $100M each. Even before Trump's "pow wow" with Lockheed, projections were the planes would price around $85 each.

The Navy and Marine variants have features that make them more expensive than the "standard" Air Force version.

Of his meeting with Trump, Lockheed's CEO said they discussed how the Pentagon's buying the planes in bulk (ordering planes for multiple years instead of X-many this year and deciding how many more to buy next year when the time comes) would let Lockheed cut the price even more. That idea was proposed to Pentagon officials prior to Trump's being elected and they liked it; however, members of Congress, notably Senator McCain, didn't care for it, so no go. The CEO didn't indicate how much below $85M a bulk buy would lower the price.

Trump can no more make Congress approve the appropriation for a bulk buy than could Obama. Maybe, however, since Trump is a Republican, Congress'll go with it to make him look good? Who knows?

Source

Trump is going to spend his whole presidency telling us how great he is, even if it wasn't him. But then, this is what politicians do, and some people can see through it like glass, and other people see through it like stone.

You're probably right, but what has that to do with the damn plane and the value of savings Trump garnered? The man can talk all he wants; he loves to talk, mostly about himself. I don't care about that here; I care about measurable results. If he's saving taxpayers money, I want to know how much and how "how much" was calculated.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

How much is the plane worth? Depends on how many wars the US goes to, I guess.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

That so many people don't care and only do care upon being told what qualitative conclusion they should hold is a major part of why I fully embrace the theme (if not the "letter") of this statement from 1965:

If I were myself a constituent of the community of Mississippi at this moment, what I would do is vote to lift the standards of the vote to disqualify 65% of the white people who are presently voting."
-- William F. Buckley, Jr. explaining what is the root cause of black disenfranchisement in MS
​

Indifference, sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity pervade too much of the electorate's collective mind. Now that wouldn't be such a terrible thing if those people didn't vote, but those f*ckers do vote. Truly, it's infuriating to people who do care and who do bother to find out "what's what" and whether what our leaders tell us aligns with what is actually so.

I mean really. Why does "Joe Plumber" need to be told the plane costs too much or is being bought at a good price? Tell "Joe" this is the price and let him figure out what that money's getting him. Then he doesn't need to be told that it's expensive or cheap or fairly priced. He also then doesn't need to know whether Dems, Reps, Libs, etc. think it's cheap, etc. He just needs to know what the decision makers plan to do; their party affiliation really doesn't matter if "Joe" has come to his own conclusion. But, we have too many "Joes" who want someone else to do their thinking and analysis for them and simply tell "Joe" what to think.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

You know that. I know that. I suspect most people know that. The question in my mind is why so many people give their approbation to "sweet talkers?" What is that but to tacitly acquiesce to being pandered to? Have people no self-respect? WTH?

 

[Campbell]

Short answer...I have no idea and Trump, as usual, isn't saying.

What I do know is that the cost of the thing has been decreasing years.



The first JSFs (ca. 2007) cost about $280M each in today's money. Now, they are about $100M each. Even before Trump's "pow wow" with Lockheed, projections were the planes would price around $85 each.

The Navy and Marine variants have features that make them more expensive than the "standard" Air Force version.

Of his meeting with Trump, Lockheed's CEO said they discussed how the Pentagon's buying the planes in bulk (ordering planes for multiple years instead of X-many this year and deciding how many more to buy next year when the time comes) would let Lockheed cut the price even more. That idea was proposed to Pentagon officials prior to Trump's being elected and they liked it; however, members of Congress, notably Senator McCain, didn't care for it, so no go. The CEO didn't indicate how much below $85M a bulk buy would lower the price.

Trump can no more make Congress approve the appropriation for a bulk buy than could Obama. Maybe, however, since Trump is a Republican, Congress'll go with it to make him look good? Who knows?

Source

Trump is a goddamned liar. I would have thought that folks would have picked up on that when they hear him brag about everything from his dick size to the massive crowds which he images after his gatherings.

 

[MrShangles]

Damn, y'all can't give the president a break, like it or not, he is our president.
Y'all had your President, let us have ours,
He's been President for a month now and I haven't seen any of the things liberals say he will do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[frigidweirdo]

Trump is going to spend his whole presidency telling us how great he is, even if it wasn't him. But then, this is what politicians do, and some people can see through it like glass, and other people see through it like stone.

You're probably right, but what has that to do with the damn plane and the value of savings Trump garnered? The man can talk all he wants; he loves to talk, mostly about himself. I don't care about that here; I care about measurable results. If he's saving taxpayers money, I want to know how much and how "how much" was calculated.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

How much is the plane worth? Depends on how many wars the US goes to, I guess.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

That so many people don't care and only do care upon being told what qualitative conclusion they should hold is a major part of why I fully embrace the theme (if not the "letter") of this statement from 1965:

If I were myself a constituent of the community of Mississippi at this moment, what I would do is vote to lift the standards of the vote to disqualify 65% of the white people who are presently voting."
-- William F. Buckley, Jr. explaining what is the root cause of black disenfranchisement in MS
​

Indifference, sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity pervade too much of the electorate's collective mind. Now that wouldn't be such a terrible thing if those people didn't vote, but those f*ckers do vote. Truly, it's infuriating to people who do care and who do bother to find out "what's what" and whether what our leaders tell us aligns with what is actually so.

I mean really. Why does "Joe Plumber" need to be told the plane costs too much or is being bought at a good price? Tell "Joe" this is the price and let him figure out what that money's getting him. Then he doesn't need to be told that it's expensive or cheap or fairly priced. He also then doesn't need to know whether Dems, Reps, Libs, etc. think it's cheap, etc. He just needs to know what the decision makers plan to do; their party affiliation really doesn't matter if "Joe" has come to his own conclusion. But, we have too many "Joes" who want someone else to do their thinking and analysis for them and simply tell "Joe" what to think.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

You know that. I know that. I suspect most people know that. The question in my mind is why so many people give their approbation to "sweet talkers?" What is that but to tacitly acquiesce to being pandered to? Have people no self-respect? WTH?

No. Actually I think the problem is so many people have miserable lives. When someone comes along promising them the earth, saying the things they want to hear, they're eager to jump on board, just to have some hope, no matter how fake it is.

 

[usmbguest5318]

You're probably right, but what has that to do with the damn plane and the value of savings Trump garnered? The man can talk all he wants; he loves to talk, mostly about himself. I don't care about that here; I care about measurable results. If he's saving taxpayers money, I want to know how much and how "how much" was calculated.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

How much is the plane worth? Depends on how many wars the US goes to, I guess.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

That so many people don't care and only do care upon being told what qualitative conclusion they should hold is a major part of why I fully embrace the theme (if not the "letter") of this statement from 1965:

If I were myself a constituent of the community of Mississippi at this moment, what I would do is vote to lift the standards of the vote to disqualify 65% of the white people who are presently voting."
-- William F. Buckley, Jr. explaining what is the root cause of black disenfranchisement in MS
​

Indifference, sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity pervade too much of the electorate's collective mind. Now that wouldn't be such a terrible thing if those people didn't vote, but those f*ckers do vote. Truly, it's infuriating to people who do care and who do bother to find out "what's what" and whether what our leaders tell us aligns with what is actually so.

I mean really. Why does "Joe Plumber" need to be told the plane costs too much or is being bought at a good price? Tell "Joe" this is the price and let him figure out what that money's getting him. Then he doesn't need to be told that it's expensive or cheap or fairly priced. He also then doesn't need to know whether Dems, Reps, Libs, etc. think it's cheap, etc. He just needs to know what the decision makers plan to do; their party affiliation really doesn't matter if "Joe" has come to his own conclusion. But, we have too many "Joes" who want someone else to do their thinking and analysis for them and simply tell "Joe" what to think.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

You know that. I know that. I suspect most people know that. The question in my mind is why so many people give their approbation to "sweet talkers?" What is that but to tacitly acquiesce to being pandered to? Have people no self-respect? WTH?

No. Actually I think the problem is so many people have miserable lives. When someone comes along promising them the earth, saying the things they want to hear, they're eager to jump on board, just to have some hope, no matter how fake it is.

Actually I think the problem is so many people have miserable lives. When someone comes along promising them the earth, saying the things they want to hear, they're eager to jump on board, just to have some hope, no matter how fake it is.

Well, if that's how they live their lives -- rising and falling on the words of one sweet talker after the next -- it's no wonder their lives are miserable. The way to not have a miserable life is to make a life, not let life happen.

People can let life happen to them. That's on them. I'm not into "life on autopilot." I want to go where I want to go, and I'm going to do what I need to do to get there. Believe it or not, doing that stuff is fun. (It pays well too, but less the point.)

 

[frigidweirdo]

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

How much is the plane worth? Depends on how many wars the US goes to, I guess.

Sure you do. But most people don't. Most people wouldn't care how much the plane costs without being told it's cheap or expensive by someone.

That so many people don't care and only do care upon being told what qualitative conclusion they should hold is a major part of why I fully embrace the theme (if not the "letter") of this statement from 1965:

If I were myself a constituent of the community of Mississippi at this moment, what I would do is vote to lift the standards of the vote to disqualify 65% of the white people who are presently voting."
-- William F. Buckley, Jr. explaining what is the root cause of black disenfranchisement in MS
​

Indifference, sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity pervade too much of the electorate's collective mind. Now that wouldn't be such a terrible thing if those people didn't vote, but those f*ckers do vote. Truly, it's infuriating to people who do care and who do bother to find out "what's what" and whether what our leaders tell us aligns with what is actually so.

I mean really. Why does "Joe Plumber" need to be told the plane costs too much or is being bought at a good price? Tell "Joe" this is the price and let him figure out what that money's getting him. Then he doesn't need to be told that it's expensive or cheap or fairly priced. He also then doesn't need to know whether Dems, Reps, Libs, etc. think it's cheap, etc. He just needs to know what the decision makers plan to do; their party affiliation really doesn't matter if "Joe" has come to his own conclusion. But, we have too many "Joes" who want someone else to do their thinking and analysis for them and simply tell "Joe" what to think.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

You know that. I know that. I suspect most people know that. The question in my mind is why so many people give their approbation to "sweet talkers?" What is that but to tacitly acquiesce to being pandered to? Have people no self-respect? WTH?

No. Actually I think the problem is so many people have miserable lives. When someone comes along promising them the earth, saying the things they want to hear, they're eager to jump on board, just to have some hope, no matter how fake it is.

Actually I think the problem is so many people have miserable lives. When someone comes along promising them the earth, saying the things they want to hear, they're eager to jump on board, just to have some hope, no matter how fake it is.

Well, if that's how they live their lives -- rising and falling on the words of one sweet talker after the next -- it's no wonder their lives are miserable. The way to not have a miserable life is to make a life, not let life happen.

People can let life happen to them. That's on them. I'm not into "life on autopilot." I want to go where I want to go, and I'm going to do what I need to do to get there. Believe it or not, doing that stuff is fun. (It pays well too, but less the point.)

Yes, you and me both. However a lot of people are just drones, living their life as they've been told to live. They get married, have kids, get the mortgage, get the car, that's what life is supposed to be, right? And they've done that.

In 2000 I was speaking to some girl from Nebraska. We were talking about Brad Pitt and Jennifer Anison getting married. I said it wasn't important when they got married, but when they get divorced. Oh, god, this girl went right off the spectrum with this one. No, you get married and YOU ARE HAPPY. It's just the way it is. She couldn't conceive of life not being like this. Er... who got divorced? And who is probably living her life quite miserable looking for someone like Trump to make it better for her? That's just one personal example.

 

[Campbell]

That so many people don't care and only do care upon being told what qualitative conclusion they should hold is a major part of why I fully embrace the theme (if not the "letter") of this statement from 1965:

If I were myself a constituent of the community of Mississippi at this moment, what I would do is vote to lift the standards of the vote to disqualify 65% of the white people who are presently voting."
-- William F. Buckley, Jr. explaining what is the root cause of black disenfranchisement in MS
​

Indifference, sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity pervade too much of the electorate's collective mind. Now that wouldn't be such a terrible thing if those people didn't vote, but those f*ckers do vote. Truly, it's infuriating to people who do care and who do bother to find out "what's what" and whether what our leaders tell us aligns with what is actually so.

I mean really. Why does "Joe Plumber" need to be told the plane costs too much or is being bought at a good price? Tell "Joe" this is the price and let him figure out what that money's getting him. Then he doesn't need to be told that it's expensive or cheap or fairly priced. He also then doesn't need to know whether Dems, Reps, Libs, etc. think it's cheap, etc. He just needs to know what the decision makers plan to do; their party affiliation really doesn't matter if "Joe" has come to his own conclusion. But, we have too many "Joes" who want someone else to do their thinking and analysis for them and simply tell "Joe" what to think.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

You know that. I know that. I suspect most people know that. The question in my mind is why so many people give their approbation to "sweet talkers?" What is that but to tacitly acquiesce to being pandered to? Have people no self-respect? WTH?

No. Actually I think the problem is so many people have miserable lives. When someone comes along promising them the earth, saying the things they want to hear, they're eager to jump on board, just to have some hope, no matter how fake it is.

Actually I think the problem is so many people have miserable lives. When someone comes along promising them the earth, saying the things they want to hear, they're eager to jump on board, just to have some hope, no matter how fake it is.

Well, if that's how they live their lives -- rising and falling on the words of one sweet talker after the next -- it's no wonder their lives are miserable. The way to not have a miserable life is to make a life, not let life happen.

People can let life happen to them. That's on them. I'm not into "life on autopilot." I want to go where I want to go, and I'm going to do what I need to do to get there. Believe it or not, doing that stuff is fun. (It pays well too, but less the point.)

Yes, you and me both. However a lot of people are just drones, living their life as they've been told to live. They get married, have kids, get the mortgage, get the car, that's what life is supposed to be, right? And they've done that.

In 2000 I was speaking to some girl from Nebraska. We were talking about Brad Pitt and Jennifer Anison getting married. I said it wasn't important when they got married, but when they get divorced. Oh, god, this girl went right off the spectrum with this one. No, you get married and YOU ARE HAPPY. It's just the way it is. She couldn't conceive of life not being like this. Er... who got divorced? And who is probably living her life quite miserable looking for someone like Trump to make it better for her? That's just one personal example.

Personal???

 

[Manonthestreet]

Part of prob in knowing is cutting thru all bs
How much the F-35 Really Cost? | Defense Update:
Those figs are wildly different than yours and I could post more of the same. Every plane we are building will need to be immediately modified with new major software upgrade next yr, After cutting cost of AF1 IN half I dont doubt we will be saving on this but again it may be hard to quantify

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Trump is saving taxpayers money.

BAHUMBUG!

 

[usmbguest5318]

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

But that's politics. It's about sweet talking the people into thinking that you are right and others are wrong.

You know that. I know that. I suspect most people know that. The question in my mind is why so many people give their approbation to "sweet talkers?" What is that but to tacitly acquiesce to being pandered to? Have people no self-respect? WTH?

No. Actually I think the problem is so many people have miserable lives. When someone comes along promising them the earth, saying the things they want to hear, they're eager to jump on board, just to have some hope, no matter how fake it is.

Actually I think the problem is so many people have miserable lives. When someone comes along promising them the earth, saying the things they want to hear, they're eager to jump on board, just to have some hope, no matter how fake it is.

Well, if that's how they live their lives -- rising and falling on the words of one sweet talker after the next -- it's no wonder their lives are miserable. The way to not have a miserable life is to make a life, not let life happen.

People can let life happen to them. That's on them. I'm not into "life on autopilot." I want to go where I want to go, and I'm going to do what I need to do to get there. Believe it or not, doing that stuff is fun. (It pays well too, but less the point.)

Yes, you and me both. However a lot of people are just drones, living their life as they've been told to live. They get married, have kids, get the mortgage, get the car, that's what life is supposed to be, right? And they've done that.

In 2000 I was speaking to some girl from Nebraska. We were talking about Brad Pitt and Jennifer Anison getting married. I said it wasn't important when they got married, but when they get divorced. Oh, god, this girl went right off the spectrum with this one. No, you get married and YOU ARE HAPPY. It's just the way it is. She couldn't conceive of life not being like this. Er... who got divorced? And who is probably living her life quite miserable looking for someone like Trump to make it better for her? That's just one personal example.

Personal???

It's frigidweirdo's personal experience with an individual whom he believes manifested the myopic attitude he/we have been discussing.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Short answer...I have no idea and Trump, as usual, isn't saying.

What I do know is that the cost of the thing has been decreasing years.



The first JSFs (ca. 2007) cost about $280M each in today's money. Now, they are about $100M each. Even before Trump's "pow wow" with Lockheed, projections were the planes would price around $85 each.

The Navy and Marine variants have features that make them more expensive than the "standard" Air Force version.

Of his meeting with Trump, Lockheed's CEO said they discussed how the Pentagon's buying the planes in bulk (ordering planes for multiple years instead of X-many this year and deciding how many more to buy next year when the time comes) would let Lockheed cut the price even more. That idea was proposed to Pentagon officials prior to Trump's being elected and they liked it; however, members of Congress, notably Senator McCain, didn't care for it, so no go. The CEO didn't indicate how much below $85M a bulk buy would lower the price.

Trump can no more make Congress approve the appropriation for a bulk buy than could Obama. Maybe, however, since Trump is a Republican, Congress'll go with it to make him look good? Who knows?

Source

Trump is going to spend his whole presidency telling us how great he is, even if it wasn't him. But then, this is what politicians do, and some people can see through it like glass, and other people see through it like stone.

Its not the Obama administration were there was an abundance of cheerleaders no matter what the situation. Good or bad. You always had a gaggle ra ra raing it for all they were worth. The press loathes Trump and no matter the good things he has done, or will do, he will never get one single accolade from the press, Liberals or establishment republicans.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Part of prob in knowing is cutting thru all bs
How much the F-35 Really Cost? | Defense Update:
Those figs are wildly different than yours and I could post more of the same. Every plane we are building will need to be immediately modified with new major software upgrade next yr, After cutting cost of AF1 IN half I dont doubt we will be saving on this but again it may be hard to quantify

The figures aren't wildly different at all. The article I cited states in their text:

"Pentagon budget documents show F-35Bs ordered in 2011 cost $172.9 million apiece ($190 million in today’s dollars). The ones ordered last year cost $131.6 million."​

The article you cite notes a sum of ~$180M in 2014:

"...in 2014. The math for unit cost comes to $172.7 million for each aircraft. To be fully accurate, however, we should add the additional procurement money authorized for “modification of aircraft” for F-35As for 2014; that means $158 million more, bringing the total unit production cost to $181 million per copy"​

Those numbers, given that I'm not going to look at the Pentagon documentation, are similar/close enough for me and for the purposes of giving readers of my OP sufficient context for thinking about the price of the plane then, now and going forward and with regard to what Trump says he saved.

Dude, you need to do your own due diligence, not just toss out a competing figure without reading at the article I cited. I don't have a problem with your contradicting me, but I do have a problem with your doing it "sans portfolio." There's a reason I provided the source link in my OP: so readers who were aware of what they perceive as differing information could review my and their information and reconcile the two, at least in an "order of magnitude" way.

You obviously did not do that; thus you've demonstrated no discursive/intellectual integrity. That behavior is immature, irresponsible and disrespectful to both me an yourself. I know that one who has little or no self-respect certainly has no respect for me, and I don't interact with people of that sort. So I bid you adieu.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Part of prob in knowing is cutting thru all bs
How much the F-35 Really Cost? | Defense Update:
Those figs are wildly different than yours and I could post more of the same. Every plane we are building will need to be immediately modified with new major software upgrade next yr, After cutting cost of AF1 IN half I dont doubt we will be saving on this but again it may be hard to quantify

The figures aren't wildly different at all. The article I cited states in their text:

"Pentagon budget documents show F-35Bs ordered in 2011 cost $172.9 million apiece ($190 million in today’s dollars). The ones ordered last year cost $131.6 million."​

The article you cite notes a sum of ~$180M in 2014:

"...in 2014. The math for unit cost comes to $172.7 million for each aircraft. To be fully accurate, however, we should add the additional procurement money authorized for “modification of aircraft” for F-35As for 2014; that means $158 million more, bringing the total unit production cost to $181 million per copy"​

Those numbers, given that I'm not going to look at the Pentagon documentation, are similar/close enough for me and for the purposes of giving readers of my OP sufficient context for thinking about the price of the plane then, now and going forward and with regard to what Trump says he saved.

Dude, you need to do your own due diligence, not just toss out a competing figure without reading at the article I cited. I don't have a problem with your contradicting me, but I do have a problem with your doing it "sans portfolio." There's a reason I provided the source link in my OP: so readers who were aware of what they perceive as differing information could review my and their information and reconcile the two, at least in an "order of magnitude" way.

You obviously did not do that; thus you've demonstrated no discursive/intellectual integrity. That behavior is immature, irresponsible and disrespectful to both me an yourself. I know that one who has little or no self-respect certainly has no respect for me, and I don't interact with people of that sort. So I bid you adieu.[/QUOTEr

Dude I have several hundred posts here on F-35....My numbers don't match or are similar to yours at all...Lowest current price I have seen is 125 not including all updates after mfg and the Naval fixes are still being worked out so there is no firm number on those costs

 

[usmbguest5318]

Short answer...I have no idea and Trump, as usual, isn't saying.

What I do know is that the cost of the thing has been decreasing years.



The first JSFs (ca. 2007) cost about $280M each in today's money. Now, they are about $100M each. Even before Trump's "pow wow" with Lockheed, projections were the planes would price around $85 each.

The Navy and Marine variants have features that make them more expensive than the "standard" Air Force version.

Of his meeting with Trump, Lockheed's CEO said they discussed how the Pentagon's buying the planes in bulk (ordering planes for multiple years instead of X-many this year and deciding how many more to buy next year when the time comes) would let Lockheed cut the price even more. That idea was proposed to Pentagon officials prior to Trump's being elected and they liked it; however, members of Congress, notably Senator McCain, didn't care for it, so no go. The CEO didn't indicate how much below $85M a bulk buy would lower the price.

Trump can no more make Congress approve the appropriation for a bulk buy than could Obama. Maybe, however, since Trump is a Republican, Congress'll go with it to make him look good? Who knows?

Source

Trump is going to spend his whole presidency telling us how great he is, even if it wasn't him. But then, this is what politicians do, and some people can see through it like glass, and other people see through it like stone.

Its not the Obama administration were there was an abundance of cheerleaders no matter what the situation. Good or bad. You always had a gaggle ra ra raing it for all they were worth. The press loathes Trump and no matter the good things he has done, or will do, he will never get one single accolade from the press, Liberals or establishment republicans.

Be that as it may, I ask you the same question I asked frigidweirdo :

what has that to do with the damn plane and the value of savings Trump garnered?

His response, in my estimation, boils down to "he doesn't know." Okay...that is what it is. I don't know either; they's why this thread is here -- maybe someone here has come across something that tells tabulates or estimates the savings Trump has produced re: the JSF.

Additional clarification, in case it's needed:

I'm not holding not knowing against anyone, but at least stating as much makes clear that one is in the same boat I am and that I thus cannot expect, any more than I have, specifically on-point feedback from them. That's fine; it's an illustration of discursive integrity. It's why I've been chatting with frigidweirdo about off-topic matters: he's indicated he doesn't have an answer, thereby earning/showing respect for me, himself and the topic.

He's essentially said he doesn't know; therefore I'm not expecting him to contribute anything of substance about the savings Trump may have obtained. He got the essentials out of the way, thus opening the door for chit chat about "other stuff."​

the Obama administration were there was an abundance of cheerleaders no matter what the situation. Good or bad. You always had a gaggle ra ra raing it for all they were worth.

Under "O" there were cheerleaders, but responsible people looked past them and at the details so they would know whether Obama deserved the accolades. It's no different with Trump. I don't care what the "pep rally" promotes, not for for Obama, not for Trump.


As goes this plane, what i want to know, because Trump made the claim that he's saved us millions (billions?), is how much has Trump saved us. If someone has happened across information that can give us some insight to that, I'd love to see it. The article I referenced in my OP is the closest thing I've found to what I'm looking for, but it doesn't really answer the question, though it shares info that puts the plane's price track record and downstream expectations in perspective. Based on what's reported in that article, the question about the magnitude of savings Trump secured becomes "how much below ~$85M per plane will they the be as a result of his efforts?"