Just Go Away Teacher Unions!...

[bodecea]

This is all political. These Unions are well funded by the Democratic Party. The Teacher Unions have always put themselves and the Democratic Party before the kids. This is just more greed & political activism coming from them. This Wisconsin situation should not be surprising to anyone. As usual,only the kids will suffer. And while the Teacher Unions continue to play their games,the World continues to pass us up in Education. How sad.

I'm still waiting for you to share your experience in the classroom and how it has assured you that teachers do not need unions to protect them.

And the reason we get passed up by the world is two fold....#1. The world values education and educators....we do not. #2. The world only provides test results on their best and brightest....we test and present results on EVERYONE.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Party before Country. This is definitely true of today's Democratic Party. This guy in Wisconsin is doing his best to get Wisconsin back on track yet the Democrats are going to fight him every step of the way. It's just like the Republicans in our Congress. They're trying to get things back under control yet the Democrats are fighting them every step of the way as well. It's just Party before Country for them. Hopefully most Americans see this and give them the big boot in 2012.

 

[Foxfyre]

It really comes down to one simple fact.

Not the family, not the local city or country government, not the state government, not the federal government is big enough, rich enough, or smart enough to give us everything we want and need. ALL must do the best they can with the circumstances and resources that exist.

And as long as people want others to take the hits and are unwilling to give up ANYTHING they currently have just because it is no longer affordable, we will have the kind of turmoil we are currently seeing at all levels of government. And they hold those elected and appointed to office hostage by demonizing all who point to the realities. There is too little of "I'll do it myself" and far too much "I want YOU to do it for me."

We have a President who got elected in part by being in bed with the unions. We have high level officials at all levels of government beholden to those same unions. This problem won't be fixed without ALL--unions, non union groups, elected officials, bureaucrats, and everybody else being willing to understand and accept what we can no longer afford and accept the unpleasantness that goes along with that.

And if that requires some union busting, then so be it.

 

[N4mddissent]

Some states without collective bargaining for state employees and their education ranking.

Texas- 8/51
Virginia- 12/51
Georgia- 27/51
North Carolina- 41/51
South Carolina- 51/51

The top 4 states, Vermont, Mass., Florida, and NH all have mandatory collective bargaining.

I'm not arguing that having a strong teacher union with collective bargaining will make schools better. But I think the arguments that they "harm" our education system is just as bogus. The information from the 5 states that forbid collective bargaining seems to indicate that removing it is doesn't have much effect.

 

[jgarden]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them. They don't care about the kids anymore. They also only want to force their politics and social experimenting on the kids at this point. Their number one goal these last few decades has been to brainwash the children and create good little future adult Democrats. They stopped teaching the kids the basics of Education a long time ago.

Teacher Unions now only do far more harm than they do good. It's time for them to go away. The Public School System will be so much better off when they're gone. The Kids could actually start learning again. American kids continue to fall further & further behind other far less developed and less wealthy nations. I do blame the Teacher Unions for this. They have become too obsessed with the cash and creating good little future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Get rid of the Teacher Unions and our Public School System might just be salvaged.

"It's all about getting that cash for them." - At first I thought "LibocalypseNow" was describing the bank executives on Wall Street -the same group that the Republicans insisted receive a "tax cut!"

The Teacher's Unions only wish that their membership had that kind of political "clout" on federal and state government - they'll just have to be content with their billions of dollars of "bonuses!"

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Party before Country. It will be very difficult to start fixing our nation's big problems as long as the Democrats hold onto that philosophy. That's all you're seeing in Wisconsin. The new Governor is trying to get things back in order there. The Democrats will not let that happen though. They will disagree with the guy just to disagree. They see votes in that. Hopefully this will backfire on them in 2012. We have real problems that need to be solved. Party before Country is no way to solve these problems.

 

[Foxfyre]

Some states without collective bargaining for state employees and their education ranking.

Texas- 8/51
Virginia- 12/51
Georgia- 27/51
North Carolina- 41/51
South Carolina- 51/51

The top 4 states, Vermont, Mass., Florida, and NH all have mandatory collective bargaining.

I'm not arguing that having a strong teacher union with collective bargaining will make schools better. But I think the arguments that they "harm" our education system is just as bogus. The information from the 5 states that forbid collective bargaining seems to indicate that removing it is doesn't have much effect.

Who put out these rankings please? And rankings re what?

 

[rhodescholar]

Silence those that you disagree with? Are you a product of our American School System? Shall we blame your teachers?

You hypocritical piece of shit, you are complaining about silencing others while defending elected officials sneaking out of the state to avoid a vote?

 

[rhodescholar]

Very difficult is not the same as "keep their job forever."

Tenure only guarantees you due process before you hit the streets. And tenure can be voided in a few circumstances that aren't that far fetched. I've known quite a few folks that though tenure was the "golden ticket" only to end up unemployed.

I will grant, to get fired while tenured requires:
1. Circumstances far outside your control
2. Really really screwing up.
3. Poor perforrmance over an extended period.

What you'd find is that many jobs in the private sector that require specialized skill sets have pretty close to that same level of security. It just isn't formalized in writing. For folks that work at a business of any reasonable size, ask yourself this: What would it take for your IT guy to get fired?

My IT guy was fired last week, for screwing up a powerpoint presentation.

Keeping Bad Teachers in Front of Students | Teachers Union Facts

"Consider New York City. The New York Daily News reports that “over the past three years [2007-2010], just 88 out of some 80,000 city schoolteachers have lost their jobs for poor performance.”"

Doesn't sound like it is anything BUT lifetime employment...

 

[rhodescholar]

I'm still waiting for you to share your experience in the classroom and how it has assured you that teachers do not need unions to protect them.

Still waiting for evidence they do.

And the reason we get passed up by the world is two fold....#1. The world values education and educators....we do not. #2. The world only provides test results on their best and brightest....we test and present results on EVERYONE.

The US spends some 3-10X as much as other developed nations on education, yet lags almost all of them in performance of students.

Could it be that the US DOES value education, just that all of that money is flowing into teacher salaries, benefits, unions, etc.? Nah.....

 

[Foxfyre]

Very difficult is not the same as "keep their job forever."

Tenure only guarantees you due process before you hit the streets. And tenure can be voided in a few circumstances that aren't that far fetched. I've known quite a few folks that though tenure was the "golden ticket" only to end up unemployed.

I will grant, to get fired while tenured requires:
1. Circumstances far outside your control
2. Really really screwing up.
3. Poor perforrmance over an extended period.

What you'd find is that many jobs in the private sector that require specialized skill sets have pretty close to that same level of security. It just isn't formalized in writing. For folks that work at a business of any reasonable size, ask yourself this: What would it take for your IT guy to get fired?

My IT guy was fired last week, for screwing up a powerpoint presentation.

Keeping Bad Teachers in Front of Students | Teachers Union Facts

"Consider New York City. The New York Daily News reports that “over the past three years [2007-2010], just 88 out of some 80,000 city schoolteachers have lost their jobs for poor performance.”"

Doesn't sound like it is anything BUT lifetime employment...

And I'm guessing that many if not most of those 88 were fired due to highly publicized sexual or other inappropriate misconduct with students and not due to incompetence.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I'm a firm believer that our Public Schools would be much better off without Teacher Unions being involved. The politics & greed would go away over night if they were removed. The Kids would finally get educated again. If this Teacher Union has violated it's contract with the Wisconsin Government,it may be time to terminate the contract and let these Teachers go.

 

[rhodescholar]

At the same time, taxpayers have to understand that teachers have an obligtion that other public employees don't have. In my state, teachers are obligated to keep their certification current by returning for college work at their own expense every few years which is an expense that others do not have. This burden alone should not make them the first target of legislatures. I only ask that fairness be observed when looking at all professions and what is entailed with each.

There are many private sector jobs that have this as well. CPA, insurance agent, etc.

 

[rhodescholar]

This is all political. These Unions are well funded by the Democratic Party. The Teacher Unions have always put themselves and the Democratic Party before the kids.

See:

In Wisconsin Fight, Officials Search Capitol for Democrats - WSJ.com

"Organizing for America, which is run in conjunction with the Democratic National Committee, was helping mobilize protesters on Thursday through its blog and Twitter updates that included a "call to action" to phone state senators."

=============================

It is clear that there are interests in this country, particularly public employee unions, that are not interested in anything but satisfying their own greed.

 

[GHook93]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them. They don't care about the kids anymore. They also only want to force their politics and social experimenting on the kids at this point. Their number one goal these last few decades has been to brainwash the children and create good little future adult Democrats. They stopped teaching the kids the basics of Education a long time ago.

Teacher Unions now only do far more harm than they do good. It's time for them to go away. The Public School System will be so much better off when they're gone. The Kids could actually start learning again. American kids continue to fall further & further behind other far less developed and less wealthy nations. I do blame the Teacher Unions for this. They have become too obsessed with the cash and creating good little future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Get rid of the Teacher Unions and our Public School System might just be salvaged.

So true. Here is the Teacher's Unions Main Concerns:
(1) Teacher Pensions - The Highway Robbery Pension plans that the private sector doesn't have. These pension plans suck up so much money that could go directly to the schools. There are some many better ways to spend 40-50% of the education budget then on retired teachers pension plan! Books for one!

(2) Tenure - One of the worst things that ever was advised. If you blow as a teacher, you should be fired. If you cause problems that harms the education of the children then you should be fired. While I think there should be safety nets for whistle blowers. I can't comprehend one benefit of tenure. Tenure, or no fear of losing your job, makes many teachers lazy, they stop trying to learn themselves. The worst Professors I had in college was the tenure ones! This is a communist style measure!

(3) Salary, Promotions and Raises - These are all based on senority, length of services and not on merit. Length in job should be a consideration, but NOT a guiding light! You want a salary increase, then you better merit it! Promotions should be based on merit. Raises should be based on merit!

 

[bodecea]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them. They don't care about the kids anymore. They also only want to force their politics and social experimenting on the kids at this point. Their number one goal these last few decades has been to brainwash the children and create good little future adult Democrats. They stopped teaching the kids the basics of Education a long time ago.

Teacher Unions now only do far more harm than they do good. It's time for them to go away. The Public School System will be so much better off when they're gone. The Kids could actually start learning again. American kids continue to fall further & further behind other far less developed and less wealthy nations. I do blame the Teacher Unions for this. They have become too obsessed with the cash and creating good little future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Get rid of the Teacher Unions and our Public School System might just be salvaged.

So true. Here is the Teacher's Unions Main Concerns:
(1) Teacher Pensions - The Highway Robbery Pension plans that the private sector doesn't have. These pension plans suck up so much money that could go directly to the schools. There are some many better ways to spend 40-50% of the education budget then on retired teachers pension plan! Books for one!

(2) Tenure - One of the worst things that ever was advised. If you blow as a teacher, you should be fired. If you cause problems that harms the education of the children then you should be fired. While I think there should be safety nets for whistle blowers. I can't comprehend one benefit of tenure. Tenure, or no fear of losing your job, makes many teachers lazy, they stop trying to learn themselves. The worst Professors I had in college was the tenure ones! This is a communist style measure!

(3) Salary, Promotions and Raises - These are all based on senority, length of services and not on merit. Length in job should be a consideration, but NOT a guiding light! You want a salary increase, then you better merit it! Promotions should be based on merit. Raises should be based on merit!

How do you measure that?

 

[Foxfyre]

At the same time, taxpayers have to understand that teachers have an obligtion that other public employees don't have. In my state, teachers are obligated to keep their certification current by returning for college work at their own expense every few years which is an expense that others do not have. This burden alone should not make them the first target of legislatures. I only ask that fairness be observed when looking at all professions and what is entailed with each.

There are many private sector jobs that have this as well. CPA, insurance agent, etc.

Yes. And teacher certification as well as all others who have to be recertified ever so often have existed long before the teacher's unions.

A good school will take into account the total compensation package when recruiting good teachers. Poor schools will take anybody they can get. The most nationalized and federally funded school system in the country is D.C. It expends more per student, pays its teachers better, and gets more federal funding than any other school system. And it ranks dead last in virtually ALL performance standards. If nothing else will make us back up and look at what we are doing, what is happening, that should.

Good schools existed long before labor unions took over education. Then teachers were part of the community and worked within a system in which administration, teachers, and parents worked together as a team to educate kids. Good teachers were admired, respected, and emulated and were paid as well as their local system would allow. Teachers went into teaching because they loved to teach. They knew it wasn't a profession one got rich in. But they didn't care. They did it because they wanted to do it.

Teachers should absolutely be paid a living wage consistent with the area they teach in, and that wage should take into account mandatory expenses the teacher will have.

One size fits all education hasn't worked anywhere it has been tried.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Who knows,this could be a fantastic once and a lifetime opportunity for this Wisconsin Governor to fire these greedy political activists. The Public Schools certainly wouldn't miss them. If they have violated their contract with the Wisconsin Government,they could be subject to dismissal. Might be time for Scott Walker to seize on this opportunity.

 

[GHook93]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them. They don't care about the kids anymore. They also only want to force their politics and social experimenting on the kids at this point. Their number one goal these last few decades has been to brainwash the children and create good little future adult Democrats. They stopped teaching the kids the basics of Education a long time ago.

Teacher Unions now only do far more harm than they do good. It's time for them to go away. The Public School System will be so much better off when they're gone. The Kids could actually start learning again. American kids continue to fall further & further behind other far less developed and less wealthy nations. I do blame the Teacher Unions for this. They have become too obsessed with the cash and creating good little future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Get rid of the Teacher Unions and our Public School System might just be salvaged.

So true. Here is the Teacher's Unions Main Concerns:
(1) Teacher Pensions - The Highway Robbery Pension plans that the private sector doesn't have. These pension plans suck up so much money that could go directly to the schools. There are some many better ways to spend 40-50% of the education budget then on retired teachers pension plan! Books for one!

(2) Tenure - One of the worst things that ever was advised. If you blow as a teacher, you should be fired. If you cause problems that harms the education of the children then you should be fired. While I think there should be safety nets for whistle blowers. I can't comprehend one benefit of tenure. Tenure, or no fear of losing your job, makes many teachers lazy, they stop trying to learn themselves. The worst Professors I had in college was the tenure ones! This is a communist style measure!

(3) Salary, Promotions and Raises - These are all based on senority, length of services and not on merit. Length in job should be a consideration, but NOT a guiding light! You want a salary increase, then you better merit it! Promotions should be based on merit. Raises should be based on merit!

How do you measure that?

How does the private sector measure it? Length in service is a consideration, but it far from the only consideration. Job performance for starters!

 

[bodecea]

At the same time, taxpayers have to understand that teachers have an obligtion that other public employees don't have. In my state, teachers are obligated to keep their certification current by returning for college work at their own expense every few years which is an expense that others do not have. This burden alone should not make them the first target of legislatures. I only ask that fairness be observed when looking at all professions and what is entailed with each.

There are many private sector jobs that have this as well. CPA, insurance agent, etc.

Yes. And teacher certification as well as all others who have to be recertified ever so often have existed long before the teacher's unions.

A good school will take into account the total compensation package when recruiting good teachers. Poor schools will take anybody they can get. The most nationalized and federally funded school system in the country is D.C. It expends more per student, pays its teachers better, and gets more federal funding than any other school system. And it ranks dead last in virtually ALL performance standards. If nothing else will make us back up and look at what we are doing, what is happening, that should.

Do you think it is the teachers or the clientele? The town I live in has 5 middle schools...same curriculum, same pool of teachers, same funding and yet some do very well and one has been a low performing school for 5+ years. Why do you think that is? I'll let you make some guesses.

Good schools existed long before labor unions took over education. Then teachers were part of the community and worked within a system in which administration, teachers, and parents worked together as a team to educate kids.

That is very true....and many, many students stopped at 6th-8th grade and left to good jobs or farms. That is no longer a viable choice.

Good teachers were admired, respected, and emulated and were paid as well as their local system would allow.

Same as now.

Teachers went into teaching because they loved to teach. They knew it wasn't a profession one got rich in. But they didn't care. They did it because they wanted to do it.

Same as now....unfortunately, many burn out within 3-5 years...up to 50% because they learn that others don't consider teaching a respected profession and their idealism can only carry them so far in a society that treats them with contempt.

Teachers should absolutely be paid a living wage consistent with the area they teach in, and that wage should take into account mandatory expenses the teacher will have.

One size fits all education hasn't worked anywhere it has been tried.

I do not think education is one size fits all except for the STANDARDIZED testing that all must take as per federal law (No Child Left Behind).